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Speaking as someone who hasn't seen the leaks and has only sort of followed the teasers, what do the League of Votaan rules look like, broadly speaking? From what I recall seeing, it seemed like they were at risk of being just another shade of pseudo-power armor army, but I haven't seen enough about them to pass judgement. What kind of playstyles does it seem like they'll support? What's the army's overall modus operandi? Do they feel distinct from marines/sister/tau/admech?

And most importantly, will my space elves have fun putting them back on the endangered abhumans list?

Judgement tokens mixed with Hekaton Land Fortresses and Pioneers, and then Beserks inside the Hekatons makes them stupidly strong, with the Iron master and great traits just makes it worst. Warriors, Thunderkyn, and Sagitaur are well balanced, but over all the Min max lists are Pre-nerf Nids level.

Slow moving gunline with a melee punch. Powerful rules synergies, very durable and very good at shooting (with some special rules to ignore invulnerable saves and an auto-wound mechanic).

General consensus seems to be they are over-powered and will get FAQ'd to nerf them pretty quickly.

Their biggest weakness seems to be mobility. The look seems to be a bit power-armoury with more of a retro-moonlander/generic 50s sci-fi look.

They are getting compared a lot to Tau for shooting but with less mobility, but able to do well in melee and have a pysker unit.

Cartoonishly overpowered at first glance.

Slow mostly, but with shooting that puts Tau to shame and with a lot of durability and melee punch to boot. And even their low mobility is suspect since they do get some very good looking fast units.

Right now LoV seem to be stupidly broken. One very minor downside seems to be their secondaries are not fantastic.

I think their mobility issues are generally being overstated. With the HLF being so good, they're going to have transports on the board. The bikes seem good as well. Then there's the fact that they have no Rapid Fire weapons, so they don't lose firepower when they move and much of 9th edition is about contesting the middle of the board, which is perfectly fine for an army with M5 and good durability.

Slipspace wrote:

Then there's the fact that they have no Rapid Fire weapons, so they don't lose firepower when they move

I don't think this is a thing in 9th edition (if it is, I've been playing it wrong heh).

If you want to see how the army plays, there's a bunch of batreps on youtube from last weekend. Most of them only use the contents of the starter box and not all the matches are LoV wins.

DeadliestIdiot wrote:

Slipspace wrote:

Then there's the fact that they have no Rapid Fire weapons, so they don't lose firepower when they move

I don't think this is a thing in 9th edition (if it is, I've been playing it wrong heh).

Correct - too much playing SM! It does mean you don't care about moving to get into half range though.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Speaking as someone who hasn't seen the leaks and has only sort of followed the teasers, what do the League of Votaan rules look like, broadly speaking? From what I recall seeing, it seemed like they were at risk of being just another shade of pseudo-power armor army, but I haven't seen enough about them to pass judgement. What kind of playstyles does it seem like they'll support? What's the army's overall modus operandi? Do they feel distinct from marines/sister/tau/admech?

And most importantly, will my space elves have fun putting them back on the endangered abhumans list?

They are widely considered to be incredibly overpowered (or over-tuned, as some people prefer saying). They are exceedingly tough (it is possible to get T7 infantry models), and many of their rules effectively mean they will wipe out large enemy 'brick' units without breaking a sweat.

A good summary from a popular competitive blog.

They seem to have the best aspects of the Tau, plus decent melee, sturdy and their major limiting factor being speed.

I like how the design synergizes but I also would have liked a reasonable power level to go along with it.

very good at
-killing inv stuff
-killing small squads siting on objectives
-killing dreadnought stuff
-killing termintors

bad at
-secondaries
-counts as acceptance by non LoV players
-relocations from objectives and in general multi objective missions.

First army where someone at the studio was smart to notice that a male and female or robot in the same power armoured heavy suit is going to be different by the shape of the head. High tech esthetic of proto earth. Geneticaly pure, hyper efficient, with non deviant breeding programs. Real friends of the machine unlike the ad mecha.
If they had access to power claymores and their ancestor could be painted as papa smurf, they would top even marines as best estheticly faction in w40k.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
They seem to have the best aspects of the Tau, plus decent melee, sturdy and their major limiting factor being speed.

I like how the design synergies but I also would have liked a reasonable power level to go along with it.

Gotta make them stupidly OP so they sell out. Then, once you have their money, you nerf it because who cares, you already have their money!

When I first heard that the LoV had been banned in several countries, for a second, I had the image of national governments around the world passing legislation on it.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
They seem to have the best aspects of the Tau, plus decent melee, sturdy and their major limiting factor being speed.

I like how the design synergies but I also would have liked a reasonable power level to go along with it.

And speed isn't much issue when you have 3 good sized transports as bare minimum.

Having played against them with my Nids? What I can tell you is they are VERY VERY good at deleting expensive single targets or small elite units.

BUT.. they suffer horribly against fast moving melee units or large blob units of cheap troops.

I have not seen my hormagaunt/termagant units be so effective against any other army.

Yes, they CAN hit lots of models with a rail gun, but they WONT want to if they have any choice in the matter as killing 8 or 9 termagants is nothing compared to 1 shotting a hive tyrant for example.

Elite armies are gonna suffer horrendously from them, but Guard, Nids, Orks and almost certainly GSC will give them trouble.

I feel this is the army that may reintroduce the "horde" lists to the game as they don't seem to deal well with them.

Oh, they are woefully vulnerable to mortal wounds.....so much so that I am now ACUTALLY seriously considering adding 2 units of 9 spore mines to my army...I mean...spore mines?!!!!!

How are the Squats?

Already banned at several German tournaments.

Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz3ZC22CDLk&t=570s

 Strg Alt wrote:
How are the Squats?

Already banned at several German tournaments.

Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz3ZC22CDLk&t=570s

Good. That means less people will buy them and MAYBE GW will listen

Nah that won't happen, because a bunch of short attention spanners will have already bought them because they're new and shiny.

Some first attempts at builds may get a bit carried away with the big guns and forget to bring some volume, but they do have good horde clear in the book.

The terminators cost 185 for 5 and can have 45 shots into an 11+ model unit and then 16 melee attacks to mop up whats left.

The beserks do have a 5 for 110 build of their unit which does 30 melee attacks (and fights on death).

The bikers are usually 110 for 3, but have 18 shots at 24" (24 at 12") in the popular configuration.

A very basic number I use to determine vulnerableness to mortals as a TS player is just looking at raw points per wound.

Warriors 11~15.
Termies 17.5.
Beserks 11 that goes to 7.3 with their FNP.
Bikes 11.
Sagitaur 12.2.
Hekkatrukk Dwarfbuggy 15.6.

In comparison:
Intercessors 10.
Redemptor 14.6.
Big Knights roughly 18~19.
Armigers roughly 12.5.
Scarab Terminators 13.3.
Crisis Suits (CIB/FB/PL) 17.5.
Hammerhead 11.1.
Tyranid Warriors 10.
Bloodletters 13.

EightFoldPath wrote:
Some first attempts at builds may get a bit carried away with the big guns and forget to bring some volume, but they do have good horde clear in the book.

The terminators cost 185 for 5 and can have 45 shots into an 11+ model unit and then 16 melee attacks to mop up whats left.

The beserks do have a 5 for 110 build of their unit which does 30 melee attacks (and fights on death).

The bikers are usually 110 for 3, but have 18 shots at 24" (24 at 12") in the popular configuration.

A very basic number I use to determine vulnerableness to mortals as a TS player is just looking at raw points per wound.

Warriors 11~15.
Termies 17.5.
Beserks 11 that goes to 7.3 with their FNP.
Bikes 11.
Sagitaur 12.2.
Hekkatrukk Dwarfbuggy 15.6.

In comparison:
Intercessors 10.
Redemptor 14.6.
Big Knights roughly 18~19.
Armigers roughly 12.5.
Scarab Terminators 13.3.
Crisis Suits (CIB/FB/PL) 17.5.
Hammerhead 11.1.
Tyranid Warriors 10.
Bloodletters 13.

Until they use their Strat that apparently can stop a unit from being affected by Psychic Powers LOL

I'll admit I was surprised at them getting banned from tournament play, but only because it took this long for it to occur to someone. Looking back we probably should have started banning new
books from everything outside of GTs until after their first Balance Dataslate after Drukhari came out.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

EightFoldPath wrote:
Some first attempts at builds may get a bit carried away with the big guns and forget to bring some volume, but they do have good horde clear in the book.

The terminators cost 185 for 5 and can have 45 shots into an 11+ model unit and then 16 melee attacks to mop up whats left.

The beserks do have a 5 for 110 build of their unit which does 30 melee attacks (and fights on death).

The bikers are usually 110 for 3, but have 18 shots at 24" (24 at 12") in the popular configuration.

A very basic number I use to determine vulnerableness to mortals as a TS player is just looking at raw points per wound.

Warriors 11~15.
Termies 17.5.
Beserks 11 that goes to 7.3 with their FNP.
Bikes 11.
Sagitaur 12.2.
Hekkatrukk Dwarfbuggy 15.6.

In comparison:
Intercessors 10.
Redemptor 14.6.
Big Knights roughly 18~19.
Armigers roughly 12.5.
Scarab Terminators 13.3.
Crisis Suits (CIB/FB/PL) 17.5.
Hammerhead 11.1.
Tyranid Warriors 10.
Bloodletters 13.

Until they use their Strat that apparently can stop a unit from being affected by Psychic Powers LOL

That strat doesn't stop mortal wounds Psychic Power.

 Togusa wrote:


Gotta make them stupidly OP so they sell out. Then, once you have their money, you nerf it because who cares, you already have their money!

Ain't it the truth

tneva82 wrote:

And speed isn't much issue when you have 3 good sized transports as bare minimum.

Yeah I've always had a soft spot for transports and I am a bit envious of theirs, both in looks and rules. One day my Landraiders and Bonebreakas will shine again, one day.

The Newman wrote:
I'll admit I was surprised at them getting banned from tournament play, but only because it took this long for it to occur to someone. Looking back we probably should have started banning new
books from everything outside of GTs until after their first Balance Dataslate after Drukhari came out.

Doesn't that just result in the problem being pushed down to between the 1st and 2nd dataslate instead?

GW claims to look at tournaments to inform their balance dataslates, so if no events have the new books, then GW don't have data, and are likely to leave the book as is.

The Newman wrote:
I'll admit I was surprised at them getting banned from tournament play, but only because it took this long for it to occur to someone. Looking back we probably should have started banning new
books from everything outside of GTs until after their first Balance Dataslate after Drukhari came out.

It has been discussed before or comping them in terms of points.

Each edition you get this cycle from the shills/fanbois/apologists:
Year 1 - Wait and see, it is early in the edition, this codex is OP because it is one of the first ones, banning it now would be silly.
Year 2 - Hammer in a meta full of nails, this codex is OP but wait and see a bit longer as some paid shills said the next books are even better, banning it now would be silly.
Year 3 - Woah you want to ban something now, that would be silly because we never banned anything in this edition. P.S. It is probably written with next edition in mind, wait and see!

So, in summary, keep waiting and seeing to find out if 10th edition written by the same people as 9th edition magically is better written.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JakeSiren wrote:
GW claims to look at tournaments to inform their balance dataslates, so if no events have the new books, then GW don't have data, and are likely to leave the book as is.

GW claims a lot of things, many like this aren't that believable. The solution if the community was collectively banning as a whole and then GW don't FAQ/slate properly the first time is that the bans continue until they do. Eventually they would get the message.

EightFoldPath wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:
GW claims to look at tournaments to inform their balance dataslates, so if no events have the new books, then GW don't have data, and are likely to leave the book as is.

GW claims a lot of things, many like this aren't that believable. The solution if the community was collectively banning as a whole and then GW don't FAQ/slate properly the first time is that the bans continue until they do. Eventually they would get the message.

Also, even if GW actually are looking at tournament data, the important thing is how they interpret and act on that data, not just the fact they're collecting it. Collecting it is the easy part.

 Strg Alt wrote:
How are the Squats?

Already banned at several German tournaments.

Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz3ZC22CDLk&t=570s

I'll say, that's a pretty good approach anytime there is an early promotional limited release. Not really fair to use a codex at an event, when it's not available for folks to buy, and the factions models are not available yet for purchase. Regardless of power level.

JakeSiren wrote:

The Newman wrote:
I'll admit I was surprised at them getting banned from tournament play, but only because it took this long for it to occur to someone. Looking back we probably should have started banning new
books from everything outside of GTs until after their first Balance Dataslate after Drukhari came out.

Doesn't that just result in the problem being pushed down to between the 1st and 2nd dataslate instead?

GW claims to look at tournaments to inform their balance dataslates, so if no events have the new books, then GW don't have data, and are likely to leave the book as is.

They have data from sales to direct. Once sold enough time to change what's op

Also thev do know what the problem is. They created lt. Knowingly.

tneva82 wrote:

JakeSiren wrote:

The Newman wrote:
I'll admit I was surprised at them getting banned from tournament play, but only because it took this long for it to occur to someone. Looking back we probably should have started banning new
books from everything outside of GTs until after their first Balance Dataslate after Drukhari came out.

Doesn't that just result in the problem being pushed down to between the 1st and 2nd dataslate instead?

GW claims to look at tournaments to inform their balance dataslates, so if no events have the new books, then GW don't have data, and are likely to leave the book as is.

They have data from sales to direct. Once sold enough time to change what's op

Also thev do know what the problem is. They created lt. Knowingly.

GW would never knowingly break the game, they've changed! They have social media now!

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
How are the Squats?

Already banned at several German tournaments.

Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz3ZC22CDLk&t=570s

Good. That means less people will buy them and MAYBE GW will listen

Nah that won't happen, because a bunch of short attention spanners will have already bought them because they're new and shiny.

Why insult people wanting to get a new army?! Its what keeps the game alive.

I plan on getting them, and I haven't been to a tournament since early 7th...I like the models. Especially the hearthkyn and sagitaurs.

Heafstaag wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
How are the Squats?

Already banned at several German tournaments.

Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz3ZC22CDLk&t=570s

Good. That means less people will buy them and MAYBE GW will listen

Nah that won't happen, because a bunch of short attention spanners will have already bought them because they're new and shiny.

Why insult people wanting to get a new army?! Its what keeps the game alive.

I plan on getting them, and I haven't been to a tournament since early 7th...I like the models. Especially the hearthkyn and sagitaurs.

Have fun with your CONSOOM. Kirby would be proud of you.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Heafstaag wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
How are the Squats?

Already banned at several German tournaments.

Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz3ZC22CDLk&t=570s

Good. That means less people will buy them and MAYBE GW will listen

Nah that won't happen, because a bunch of short attention spanners will have already bought them because they're new and shiny.

Why insult people wanting to get a new army?! Its what keeps the game alive.

I plan on getting them, and I haven't been to a tournament since early 7th...I like the models. Especially the hearthkyn and sagitaurs.

Have fun with your CONSOOM. Kirby would be proud of you.

Are you just trolling? What is the point of you even posting?