Heroscape returns via Haslab: HEROSCAPE AGE OF ANNIHILATION: Vanguard Edition

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**mrgrigson**

Hasbro just revealed the revamp of Heroscape, 45 day pre-order window via their Haslab platform.

$250USD base price. More models than the original base kits, but all unpainted. Terrain looks like a similar count, but includes jungles and ruins.

**warboss**

The original was a very varied source of minis and I bought some packs for random RPG reasons for myself and the base set plus some boosters for young cousins to try and hook them into tabletop gaming. Other than the varied sculpts, the big benefits were the price and being prepainted which unfortunately isn't the case here. I'm not sure why they decided to take that route when the painted aspect was so key to the original.

**Lance845**

The game was great. I used to play the gak out of this with my nephews. Says it's fully backwards and forwards compatible.

**Chairman Aeon**

Preprinted was the standard at the time of Heroclix and D&D blind packs. Then the bottom fell out as costs rose significantly and repainted minis basically disappeared.

My problem with this crowd fund is the price, like Kingdom Death money for a game I already have and a bunch of miniatures I could sum up as “meh”. Minis were never Heroscape’s strong point, but…

I’d like new stuff, but I don’t need new stuff and especially at that price.

**manic _miner**

That is a very high price for what you get.
Still got two of the original sets and some of the expansions that we got for our son.
As to them not being painted that might have something to do with keeping the cost down,People mentioning that the original series would have been better unpainted or the not knowing how things with China are going.I did hear about different Countries bringing production back into thier sphere instead of out sourcing.
£250 is way higher than GW stuff too.So this will be interesting to see how this goes.
I do like the Sci-Fi Insect type faction.

**Tannhauser42**

Yeah, that's a bit of a steep price to buy in if you've never played the game before.
They're also at currently 1030 backers out of a target of 8000. While I'm sure they'll hit that in 44 days, I can't help but wonder if they would already be there if they had used Kickstarter instead of their own platform. Hasbro Pulse just does not have the same reach as Kickstarter or even Gamefound within the boardgame community.

**Lance845**

Value Comparison from Reddit User.

Wanted to do a price analysis on this set to see how it compares to the original Heroscape stuff. Obviously we must keep in mind, RotV, the original Master Set was a huge loss leader to get people bought into the Heroscape eco-system. Just bear that in mind, as there will never be another board game printed that can provide that level of value and be produced at that scale.

Anyways, here's what's included in this $250 release:
71 finely detailed miniatures, in molded colors that denote their affiliations.
50 army cards, providing game rules for your miniatures.
An expandable hex-based modular tile terrain system, including 74 base pieces and 68 wall terrain pieces, 9 jungle terrain pieces, with which you can build varied, multilevel landscapes for your battles.
5 original factions designed for this game, each with unique skills and strategies. Play as the Dryan Lifeborne Order, the Nemesis War Brood, the Dawn Raider Syndicate, the Clockwork Combine, or the Ironclad Collective!
Customizable armies in which each figure is given a point value, allowing you to choose which units to include in your army to suit your own playstyle.
20 game scenarios specially created for AGE OF ANNIHILATION.

Here's the closest approximation to that lot we can make with original Heroscape releases:

RotV $40 in 2004 ($63 in 2022) - 16 army cards (30 miniatures, but we'll be using army cards as it's easier to estimate total quantities).
85 base terrain pieces is roughly equivalent to the 74 we get in AoA.

Ticalla Jungle $20 in 2007 ($28 in 2022) - 3 Jungle trees, 6 jungle bushes. This is the most 1:1 comparison we have between old and new sets, getting the same items in the same quantities in this release.

Fortress of the Archkyrie $30 in 2006 ($44 in 2022) - This is the hardest one to quantify in the new release since the original fortress and new modular ruin system seem to be fulfilling different roles, but the quantity of plastic for both at least seems comparable to me.

3 figures waves (12 figure packs at $13 ea) $156 in 2005 ($235 in 2022) - There are 50 army cards included in AoA, significantly more than the 16 available in RotV. Since we've already found equivalents for all the terrain in this new set, the most sensible way to equate the 34 remaining unit cards is the method Heroscape originally used, of selling individual miniature packs. These were released in waves throughout the years, most standardly in the format of 5 heroes in 1 pack, and 2 squads in each of the remaining 3 packs for a total of 11 unit cards per wave. This equates to 3 figure expansion waves being included in this release, in addition to the 16 base units. These packs were sold at $13 each in 2005 onward so that's the price basis.

In conclusion, to create a comparable lot from original Heroscape's release using MSRP would cost roughly $370 adjusted for 2022 inflation. This lot is $250. Now granted you're not getting painted minis anymore, which is certainly where that $120 savings comes from, but we have to remember the cost of shipping and hand painting has risen substantially in the past decade and a half. And it's a good thing, considering the original Heroscape was (for legal reasons, likely) painted in Chinese sweatshops (aka slave labor).

So props to Avalon Hill and Hasbro for offering a great value and a fantastic new addition to the Heroscape line!

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

Tannhauser42 wrote:
Yeah, that's a bit of a steep price to buy in if you've never played the game before.
They're also at currently 1030 backers out of a target of 8000. While I'm sure they'll hit that in 44 days, I can't help but wonder if they would already be there if they had used Kickstarter instead of their own platform. Hasbro Pulse just does not have the same reach as Kickstarter or even Gamefound within the boardgame community.

I wouldn't be so sure it'll hit the goal. I am majorly into Heroscape, and its online community is being weird about this. They spent years dreaming of a reboot, and yet a huge part of this community is delusional as to prices in this hobby. Its a weird community where most folks never played another minis game, and have this mad idea that a box like this should be $100, because they bought a loss-leader starter set for $40 twenty years ago.

Personally, $250 isn't incredible, but considering what I got for the same price for Kill-Team/Warcry in the last two months, its entirely acceptable.

**ced1106**

Dakka isn't the target audience -- and it's not shipped to Europe, either. ): Heroscapers.com has supported the game with fan content since it ended, so they're the ones with pent-up demand.

"$250 seems like a lot, but when you think about what you are getting it is comparable to old Heroscape. You get almost an old master set's worth of terrain (sparkly water has been confirmed), plus two expansions (jungle and "castle"), plus several waves worth of figures.

Well, thank goodness for that sparkly water. (No, really. I have it and it's way better than the non-sparkly stuff!) The plastic terrain also upped the price of HS (more expensive than a board), so it's about $2 per plastic piece, when including terrain and miniatures. Miniature quality is better than old HS, but not as good as hobbyists here would like.

I still haven't played my sets yet, of course.

https://www.heroscapers.com/community/blog.php?b=3159#comments

**Azreal13**

and it's not shipped to Europe, either.

Absolutely is, to the UK at least, with free delivery. The site is localised so you have to be on the correct version to see the correct shipping details.

EDIT Closer look shows continental Europe doesn't show it as available. Maybe it's a language thing or a UK based distribution center. Most likely language as I can't believe Hasbro don't have an EU option for distribution.

**ced1106**

Plasticrack comes down to $1 apiece for miniatures, boardgame hexes, and terrain.

71 miniatures
74 hex tile terrain pieces
68 Laur wall terrain pieces
3 Laur tree pieces
6 Laur underbrush pieces

EDIT: "Free" shipping. Standard if you're competing against OLGS, but bahgain vs. KS projects.

Ball-o-Bugs? In.

Spoiler:

Gerbil in a blimp? In.

Spoiler:

Bears with harpoons? In.

Spoiler:

Sorry DUN and Awaken Realms, but I'm leaning towards backing this big pile of stupid.

**warboss**

ced1106 wrote:

Gerbil in a blimp? In.

Spoiler:

I'm biased because my favorite Overwatch design/character is the hamster riding his mecha ball.

**ced1106**

> I'm biased because my favorite Overwatch design/character is the hamster riding his mecha ball.

Haslab UK HS spotted! No EU seen, though. ):
https://uk.hasbropulse.com/collections/haslab/products/heroscape-age-of-annihilation-vangaurd-edition
"£249.99 including VAT and free delivery"

No gerbil inna ball (: but one in a walking tin can with a skull on it!

Spoiler:

**EviscerationPlague**

I'm buying the set because I need the bears with harpoons

**modelhunter**

Is anyone taking pre-orders for Australia?

**Eilif**

EviscerationPlague wrote:
I'm buying the set because I need the bears with harpoons

I really like those bear figs as well but not enough to buy in at 250.
I do think the wall segments are very cool though and that it is backwards compatible is great for fans.

Years back I stocked up on whatever cheap Heroscape I could find in preparation for gaming with my son and got all of MtG AOtP also. It's a very solid system for light Wargaming. However, we ended up skipping from Heroquest right to Grimdark Future. We might still play a bit at some point, but no paint and a bunch of factions that aren't terribly appealing (except the bears) makes this a bit of a meh for me.

I realize it's not a fair comparison, but compared to Heroquest which delivered the original goods in full and allot more, this feels like getting less for more.

**EviscerationPlague**

Eilif wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
I'm buying the set because I need the bears with harpoons

I really like those bear figs as well but not enough to buy in at 250.
I do think the wall segments are very cool though and that it is backwards compatible is great for fans.

Years back I stocked up on whatever cheap Heroscape I could find in preparation for gaming with my son and got all of MtG AOtP also. It's a very solid system for light Wargaming. However, we ended up skipping from Heroquest right to Grimdark Future. We might still play a bit at some point, but no paint and a bunch of factions that aren't terribly appealing (except the bears) makes this a bit of a meh for me.

I realize it's not a fair comparison, but compared to Heroquest which delivered the original goods in full and allot more, this feels like getting less for more.

Well JUST buying it for the harpoon bears is an exaggeration but you get the point.

**ced1106**

> Is anyone taking pre-orders for Australia?

Europe TBA! Join the Discord or look out on HeroScapers.com.

> Well JUST buying it for the harpoon bears is an exaggeration but you get the point.

Harpoons! Point! I can't BEAR it.

> I realize it's not a fair comparison, but compared to Heroquest which delivered the original goods in full and allot more, this feels like getting less for more.

Besides prepaints, I think the cost of HeroScape's plastic game tiles sent it to the chopping block. They're certainly more expensive than a game board. Just imagine if HeroQuest rooms were plastic game tiles that you attached to each other, and how much that would have cost. Many posts about the pledge mention the miniatures, not the terrain, not the game tiles. Only the hardcore, like HeroScapers, are even mentioning the value *to them* of the game tiles (eg. desire for a tiles-only pledge).

Fair doesn't matter. Value matters. And, while value is subjective, businesses profit only when they maximize value to the most consumers for the least cost. This doesn't just apply to HeroScape, but HeroQuest as well. Hasbro still has many fondly remembered game properties from its Avalon Hill acquisition that haven't even had a chance through crowdfunding. Thank goodness MMP licensed (Advanced) Squad Leader...!

**LunarSol**

Heroscape was the first minis game I really dug into and got me started in the hobby. Huge fan of the system, even though I think it needs a few tweaks to really maximize the incredible maps the tiles let you construct. I still have everything released up to the introduction of the DnD waves and I'm excited to see how the promised backwards compatibility works.

That said, I'm probably passing on this. I feel like I need to be a little more picky when it comes to picking up unpainted projects and there only being an all in option means there's just a lot I don't really need. Hope it does well though. I'd love to see a new generation of fans discover a really fantastic game.

**Eilif**

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Eilif wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
I'm buying the set because I need the bears with harpoons

I really like those bear figs as well but not enough to buy in at 250.
I do think the wall segments are very cool though and that it is backwards compatible is great for fans.

Years back I stocked up on whatever cheap Heroscape I could find in preparation for gaming with my son and got all of MtG AOtP also. It's a very solid system for light Wargaming. However, we ended up skipping from Heroquest right to Grimdark Future. We might still play a bit at some point, but no paint and a bunch of factions that aren't terribly appealing (except the bears) makes this a bit of a meh for me.

I realize it's not a fair comparison, but compared to Heroquest which delivered the original goods in full and allot more, this feels like getting less for more.

Well JUST buying it for the harpoon bears is an exaggeration but you get the point.

I do indeed.
Actually, if it were available as a separate pledge, I'd probably purchase the whole "Clockwork Combine". As it happens I sent the last of my Steampunk stuff off to a local game auction yesterday, but steampunk anthropomorphic animals would be alot of fun to paint.

Also, I notice that they seem to have done a good job of sculpting the figures with game plastic in mind. No attempts at super-fine detail, just bold designs that will both look good in bare plastic and likely paint up easy as well. I do think they are putting out a good product, I just wonder if it it's enough of the Nostalgia factor (Heroscape was only discontinued 10 years ago) to really succeed, because it appears to be priced well out of the "toy" market the game originally thrived in.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ced1106 wrote:

Besides prepaints, I think the cost of HeroScape's plastic game tiles sent it to the chopping block. They're certainly more expensive than a game board. Just imagine if HeroQuest rooms were plastic game tiles that you attached to each other, and how much that would have cost.

I'm suspicious of the idea that the tiles are as big a cost as folks think. As has been discussed many times here, the big cost of plastics is in purchasing new tooling. These are pieces that have been tooled already, and -as I didn't notice any flaws in the AOTP tiles, the tooling is likely still in good shape. Plus, the paint on the tiles is one-color, likely done automatically sprayed with a stencil. More expensive overall than a game board, but not unreasonable.

I do wonder why they didn't go with a hybrid board using the AOTP-style cardboard for the ground level and then lots of plastics (but far fewer than the current set) for various elevation above that. The set could have significantly less tiles overall, and still allow players MORE elevation in the game if using cardboard base layer.

**ced1106**

Eilif wrote:
I'm suspicious of the idea that the tiles are as big a cost as folks think. As has been discussed many times here, the big cost of plastics is in purchasing new tooling. These are pieces that have been tooled already, and -as I didn't notice any flaws in the AOTP tiles, the tooling is likely still in good shape. Plus, the paint on the tiles is one-color, likely done automatically sprayed with a stencil. More expensive overall than a game board, but not unreasonable.

I do wonder why they didn't go with a hybrid board using the AOTP-style cardboard for the ground level and then lots of plastics (but far fewer than the current set) for various elevation above that. The set could have significantly less tiles overall, and still allow players MORE elevation in the game if using cardboard base layer.

Buried somewhere on HeroScapers was a mention that the tile tools were lost, but the CAD files were found. Still at 8000 backers, that's $2M, which should pay for new tools. Mebbe I'll backtrack (: and say that when HS was cancelled, oil costs were high so the game tiles would be more expensive. Or just throwing up another Monopoly game would have greater profit margin than HS.

I also thought about the board and plastic, but that would have turned off the hardcores, who are also buying the game for additional tiles. 10 years means cracked tiles, and OH BOY SPARKLY WATER.

Well, whatever. HS is up from 1300 to 1450 since I checked about yesterday. Here come the harpoon bears!

**LunarSol**

At the time of cancelation new sculpts was more of a cost concern than the tiles. That's why they flipped to reusing the DnD minis while producing the terrain using existing terrain sculpts (the cave terrain reused the ice stuff).

**Eilif**

I'd be curious if/when the tooling for basic tiles was lost. They were in production up until around 2016 for AotP.

**LunarSol**

Eilif wrote:
I'd be curious if/when the tooling for basic tiles was lost. They were in production up until around 2016 for AotP.

Maybe they just lost the big 18? hex sets or something? You're right though, I think AotP used the 1, 2, 3, and 7 hex tiles. A lot changed in plastic manufacturing since 2016 though so its certainly possible they lost everything after AotP.

**Mr Morden**

So its not a normal Kickstarter?

**LunarSol**

Mr Morden wrote:
So its not a normal Kickstarter?

It uses Hasbro's proprietary Hasbro Pulse crowdfunding site that they've used for several nostalgia projects that aren't well suited to retail.

**Talking Banana**

What kind of plastic are they using for the new figures? PVC, same as the originals?

I might have one or two old Heroscape figures kicking around somewhere, but if so, I haven't seen them in awhile. I've gotten pretty good at stripping paint from prepainted plastics, and those old Heroscape paint jobs were pretty poor, so I'd be curious to see what the quality of the miniature detail is underneath. Heroclix miniatures, especially those produced later on the line's history, can turn out to be surprisingly well-detailed once the factory paint is off. (A big pain in the butt to clean the mold lines from them, though.) If I can find one, I'd like to see how good the those old Heroscape sculpts are beneath the slapdash paint. Might give some idea of what to expect in terms of quality level to expect for these new figures.

All miniature terrain can probably be graded in terms of three main traits: durability, practicality (including storage, transport, and modularity for reconfiguration,) and aesthetics / naturalism / immersion, with some sacrifices expected in every category. I've always been torn between admiring the practical abstract design of Heroscape tiles and feeling like they don't quite fall on the right side of illusory immersion for me personally.

$250 is too much for me, but I do like some of the model designs, particularly the techno-Beastmen Dreadnoughts of New Tortuga. I also liked the Raakchott desecrator and thought it a particularly good iteration of a Leshy / Wendigo design until I blew up the image and noticed its prominent rabbit buck teeth, which make it look more like a yokel villain from Scooby-Doo.

Leshy: Duh, which way did dey go?

Shaggy and Scooby, disguised: THAT way.

Leshy shambles off, stage left.

The exclusive figures meant to sell this edition aren't quite hitting the mark, either: Scavorith looks good, but the Dragoon, with its weird belly-coasting rearing mount pose, is a head-scratching waste of a concept that could have been excellent. Is it really that hard to cast a giant insect mount with most of its legs actually touching the ground? Reaper manages it all the time.

Overall, I wish them wild success with this. Hopefully heroscapers will be happy (the wealthier ones, anyway,) and some good figures will eventually spin out of this that are appealing, affordable, and sold separately for the rest of us.

**Eilif**

LunarSol wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
So its not a normal Kickstarter?

It uses Hasbro's proprietary Hasbro Pulse crowdfunding site that they've used for several nostalgia projects that aren't well suited to retail.

Yep. To be fair, it's been a pretty successful way to make some really great and very expensive toys for collectors with deep wallets. If I had the means there's some giant Star Wars vehicles that I'd have bought in on just because nostalgia.

I think it's important for folks who first came to Haslab via Heroquest to know that if you want something from HasLab, you should get it when you can. Some products will eventually make it to retail but there is really no guarantee that something in HasLab will necessarily make it to retail or even reappear on the Hasbro site for sale.

**privateer4hire**

Too much for me for what they are offering. To be fair, it’s more like a $200 price tag for lower 48 folks since shipping is included there. Even so, it’s cool stuff but would have been better for many if they sold maybe factions separately or something.

**adamsouza**

I would have been happier with more tiles and models and less walls and trees.