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https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/kicking-magics-30th-anniversary-celebration-2022-10-04

29 years of playing Magic and I thought I'd seen it all. This is quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever seen them do.

MTG has been leaning heavily into this for a while. Heck there's now 2 or 3 different types of "booster" alone.

They know they've a mature die-hard market that they can tap into with nostalgia and high priced card sets and limited edition runs. It's the same as what the comicbook industry did with their special and limited edition covers of the same comic

They should celebrate by releasing a another unhinged/unglued style set.

Should have made it $10, all the rare cards people pay thousands for, tournament legal, and laugh as the fires burn...

Saw this last night. Was super excited at the prospect of being able to get my hands on the original set for nostalgia. Then saw the absurd price tag of $1,000.00 for one box (1 box = 4 packs of 15 cards)... And the packs are blind / randomized for that price. So no guarantee that your $1,000.00 will even get you the cards you want.

This is by far the most egregious example of corporate greed I have ever witnessed.

What's sad is they'll sell out within hours. That is a guarantee.

Turns out MtG truly is for the super rich after all.

Good gods, it isn't $1000 for the whole set? So actually more like $4000? For a set of fancy playing cards?

I have a sinking feeling GW will take note.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
Good gods, it isn't $1000 for the whole set? So actually more like $4000? For a set of fancy playing cards?

I have a sinking feeling GW will take note.

They may, but I think Wiz-bro is taking notes from GW.

A real chicken and egg situation here.

I recently started gettting back into magic with precon commander decks. Having a lot of fun with it, refusing to buy packs. Started dabbling in my own decks as well built from singles. Not interested in chasing cards, the only paper I wanna chase is them dollars.

 Overread wrote:
MTG has been leaning heavily into this for a while. Heck there's now 2 or 3 different types of "booster" alone.
They know they've a mature die-hard market that they can tap into with nostalgia and high priced card sets and limited edition runs. It's the same as what the comicbook industry did with their special and limited edition covers of the same comic

I barely know what the difference is between the different types, but I saw the other day that they have larger half-deck boosters, the idea is you buy two of them and shuffle them together and you get yourself a fully randomized playable deck. I'm sure the power level of these decks is dubious and they are probably only competitive against other similarly formed decks, but I think its a neat concept and was probably driven by a desire to compete with Keyforge or incorporate similar accessibility concepts into Magic.

 Lance845 wrote:
They should celebrate by releasing a another unhinged/unglued style set.

They do that every few years. They released Unstable in 2017 and Unsanctioned in 2020.

 oni wrote:
Saw this last night. Was super excited at the prospect of being able to get my hands on the original set for nostalgia. Then saw the absurd price tag of $1,000.00 for one box (1 box = 4 packs of 15 cards)... And the packs are blind / randomized for that price. So no guarantee that your $1,000.00 will even get you the cards you want.
This is by far the most egregious example of corporate greed I have ever witnessed.
What's sad is they'll sell out within hours. That is a guarantee.
Turns out MtG truly is for the super rich after all.

The real greed is that they are non-tournament legal. Basically a set of official proxies for $1k. The reason for both the non-legality and the price is likely so that they don't devalue the value of the official cards by giving players easy access to the cards or suitable replacements for them.

At this point it's obvious the product is NOT for fans or players.

The product is a huge Magic Finance circle-jerk.

 oni wrote:
At this point it's obvious the product is NOT for fans or players.

The product is a huge Magic Finance circle-jerk.

Even the MTGFinance crowd is scratching their heads over this one. Nobody seems to know who this product is actually for. For its price, if you're interested in investing in MTG products, you're better off buying the original cards.

 oni wrote:
At this point it's obvious the product is NOT for fans or players.

The product is a huge Magic Finance circle-jerk.

That is correct. The very fact that MTG Finance exists makes me so livid that I want to punch a puppy.


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The_Real_Chris wrote:
Good gods, it isn't $1000 for the whole set? So actually more like $4000? For a set of fancy playing cards?

I have a sinking feeling GW will take note.

I mean it could be 40,000 dollars. You get 60 random cards for 1000$, meaning collecting an entire set will be a massive endeavor. Most of the cards will likely be worthless, but a significant number (maybe 30 cards) will fetch prives in the hundreds and perhaps thousands of dollars, making assembling a collection next to impossible for anyone who isn't Bill Gates.

 Togusa wrote:
That is correct. The very fact that MTG Finance exists makes me so livid that I want to punch a puppy.

At least they (and WOTC's continued insistence on enabling them) remove any moral issue with printing proxies to play the game. It's just sad that tournaments care more about showing proof of purchase than skill at playing the actual game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Even the MTGFinance crowd is scratching their heads over this one. Nobody seems to know who this product is actually for. For its price, if you're interested in investing in MTG products, you're better off buying the original cards.

Yeah, I really don't get it. The cards aren't any more legal for play than printing your own proxies for dirt cheap so who's the target audience here? Normal people who want to play the game won't pay thousands of dollars to get fancy proxies, people who view the game as an investment aren't going to have any interest in a lame ripoff of the original cards. Does WOTC really think people are going to pay that much money purely for the experience of opening packs of the old cards?

I've heard one hypothesis floating around that this is actually just a really poor and convoluted way to test how the community reacts to the mere mention of reprints of the Power 9. The movement to axe the Reserve list has been growing strong for decades now, and recent reports have suggested that almost no one at the company supports it any longer. I know that Mark has been vocal about it being a terrible idea.

So maybe this was a test to gauge reaction ahead of eventual reprints of Reserve list cards?

I doubt is has anything to do with the game.

This is Wizards testing the waters for how far they can take the finance side of MTG products. Consider it a stress test for how much the market will take and how much they can make. They'll see how many units they can sell and if its over a threshold range they'll continue with such products and if not they'll hold back. Or they'll do these every so often for a cash injection.

They will ride this until the investment/rich nostalgia/fanbase starts to dwindle. The only backlash will be if they get too addicted to it as a firm and end up crumbling when the market starts drying up even if their core business remains very healthy (which as I understand it is one of the problems with the US Comicbook industry in that some parts of its distribution/production didn't like when its own luxury collector/investor part bubble burst)

At this point, if you want to play with the old cards for nostalgia, just contact a local print shop and have them printed out. Since there's card sleeves you don't need to print the backs so it's not like you're trying to fake them. Hell if you're not that into the nostalgia use your own custom art.

Thousands of dollars for a mox is not preem, it's slowed.

Personally I haven't played the game for years. It's beyond the point of no return.

StaevinTheAeldari wrote:
At this point, if you want to play with the old cards for nostalgia, just contact a local print shop and have them printed out. Since there's card sleeves you don't need to print the backs so it's not like you're trying to fake them. Hell if you're not that into the nostalgia use your own custom art.

Thousands of dollars for a mox is not preem, it's slowed.

Personally I haven't played the game for years. It's beyond the point of no return.

All of the stores in my area (that I know of) check for fakes before allowing you to game. I'm not sure how widespread this is, but I've been told by multiple owners that if they get caught allowing proxies in their stores (especially if they have higher tiers of WOTC affiliation) they will be punished for it severely. For Kitchen table magic it's fine, but be careful when playing in your local LGS.

StaevinTheAeldari wrote:
At this point, if you want to play with the old cards for nostalgia, just contact a local print shop and have them printed out. Since there's card sleeves you don't need to print the backs so it's not like you're trying to fake them. Hell if you're not that into the nostalgia use your own custom art.

Thousands of dollars for a mox is not preem, it's slowed.

Personally I haven't played the game for years. It's beyond the point of no return.

Or... Magic work station. A program with a database of every card ever released in every art style there ever was that allows you to play any type of mtg or other ccg you want.

 Togusa wrote:
All of the stores in my area (that I know of) check for fakes before allowing you to game. I'm not sure how widespread this is, but I've been told by multiple owners that if they get caught allowing proxies in their stores (especially if they have higher tiers of WOTC affiliation) they will be punished for it severely. For Kitchen table magic it's fine, but be careful when playing in your local LGS.

Fakes, or proxies? Is WOTC really threatening a store's business if they catch someone playing MTG with a deck of playing cards with "black lotus" written on them?

 Togusa wrote:


All of the stores in my area (that I know of) check for fakes before allowing you to game. I'm not sure how widespread this is, but I've been told by multiple owners that if they get caught allowing proxies in their stores (especially if they have higher tiers of WOTC affiliation) they will be punished for it severely. For Kitchen table magic it's fine, but be careful when playing in your local LGS.

I almost never went to any tournaments when I played, like ninety percent of games were just with friends or the local magic club so I didn't think of that. Obviously for tournaments use the actual cards if you can afford them. Though with vintage... man. Never played in a store. Obviously they'd want you to only use cards you bought since mtg cards are a huge part of any gaming store.

Anyway, If you do kitchen magic you have the additional benefit of lending the other people a deck and you can try your hand at Vintage without literally having to be a millionaire. Could even mimic some historical tournament decks and run your own 'magic trough history' for extra nostalgia factor. Or a vintage cube. Saw one guy who did one of those, but he didn't print the cards, he took basic lands and painted them with his own custom art. Very cartoonish but extremely cool.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
All of the stores in my area (that I know of) check for fakes before allowing you to game. I'm not sure how widespread this is, but I've been told by multiple owners that if they get caught allowing proxies in their stores (especially if they have higher tiers of WOTC affiliation) they will be punished for it severely. For Kitchen table magic it's fine, but be careful when playing in your local LGS.

Fakes, or proxies? Is WOTC really threatening a store's business if they catch someone playing MTG with a deck of playing cards with "black lotus" written on them?

The store has a vested interest in discouraging illegal/proxy cards and promoting the own brand because the store makes their money from the card sales. You can't make your money if your active playerbase has been allowed and has self-encouraged themselves to print their own cards. Sure the store is likely not making profit off super rare card sales (unless they are a huge card dealer themselves); but its one of those slippery slope things that if printing your own became popular it puts more pressure on your card price that customers will tolerate.

WOTC could also cut supply if they found a store was encouraging/allowing an illegal card culture to thrive. Again its not good for business to allow/tolerate/encourage illegal practice.

I got into MTG early, my first set was Beta, I had five of the power nine in it and played them under original rules, with ante.

As it got crazier I got more detached, eventually I got rid of the deck.

'Friday Night Magic' gets my goat, the idea that a company tries to dictate a place in the gaming culture reserved for them is insidious to me. My local FLGS used to be magic, magic, magic, Friday or not, the place had been assimilated. Some of us ran defence though and played other games and kept the torch alive for indie games of various makes both card and otherwise. It gained a lot of traction and now people play all sorts of games every day

 Overread wrote:

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
All of the stores in my area (that I know of) check for fakes before allowing you to game. I'm not sure how widespread this is, but I've been told by multiple owners that if they get caught allowing proxies in their stores (especially if they have higher tiers of WOTC affiliation) they will be punished for it severely. For Kitchen table magic it's fine, but be careful when playing in your local LGS.

Fakes, or proxies? Is WOTC really threatening a store's business if they catch someone playing MTG with a deck of playing cards with "black lotus" written on them?

The store has a vested interest in discouraging illegal/proxy cards and promoting the own brand because the store makes their money from the card sales. You can't make your money if your active playerbase has been allowed and has self-encouraged themselves to print their own cards. Sure the store is likely not making profit off super rare card sales (unless they are a huge card dealer themselves); but its one of those slippery slope things that if printing your own became popular it puts more pressure on your card price that customers will tolerate.

WOTC could also cut supply if they found a store was encouraging/allowing an illegal card culture to thrive. Again its not good for business to allow/tolerate/encourage illegal practice.

IIRC if you have a genuine magic card, even a basic land and painted over the art and wrote beneath the rules of another card that card is legal.
You can't copy paste the original artwork though, you have to do your own. I don't see this often, but proxies are a thing.

How is a playing card 'worth' so much money, because of an artificial feeding frenzy. Its heaped corporate bulls*t that I cannot stand. I got a new deck six years back and play Commander casually and occassionally. If people want to play, play, and I dont look down on them. But I do look down on Wizard of the Coast and have a healthy contempt for their practices.

Aecus Decimus wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
All of the stores in my area (that I know of) check for fakes before allowing you to game. I'm not sure how widespread this is, but I've been told by multiple owners that if they get caught allowing proxies in their stores (especially if they have higher tiers of WOTC affiliation) they will be punished for it severely. For Kitchen table magic it's fine, but be careful when playing in your local LGS.

Fakes, or proxies? Is WOTC really threatening a store's business if they catch someone playing MTG with a deck of playing cards with "black lotus" written on them?

Fakes, proxies are legal, so long as they aren't used in official store events.

Seems the wallets have spoken and WoTC has face planted in a spectacular fashion with the $!000 proxy boosters with next to fugde all sales, looking forward to Rosewater trying to spin this one

Does he even have to spin it? Those cards cost the same as any other MTG card to produce. Chances are its $999 pure profit from them once you factor in that production, shipping and distribution is likely all handled under the same system as all the other cards they make (ergo spread out cost).

So they'll either withdraw them from sale; or just leave them up for utterly ages and then discount them at some point if they have to clear inventory out.


What they have done is establish at least one upper boundary for pricing so they'll likely work with that. Perhaps the next set will be $750 or $900 and then they'll just steadily experiment coming down until they hit the upper limit in terms of price and volume of sale.

Maybe not but his vanity and ego won't let him let it lie, and Hasbro / WoTC aren't doing that well on late and some axe swinging may be in order so best to get his excuses in early

I still think a nice collector's item of a full set of original set card reprints with different backs, in a nice binder, and maybe a book or two about the game's history would have sold at the absurd price point, but low effort whale hunting was never going to end well

I think that might be the case if they had been a special investment in a non-standard product line. Ergo action figures or high detail sculpts or such.

In other words if they'd cost way more than normal for MTG to produce, come with a higher price to reflect that and then not sold. Because then it would be a significant loss of investment on a line that didn't sell well.


Thing is these are just more MTG cards produced the same way through their regular production system. Whilst they might have some fancy design elements and a unique bit of box art and such; the whole process is basically internal. The price on them is also purely inflated for profit and "collectability". So they can afford to steep discount them and still come out on top.




I can only see it being an abject failure if they were pinning all their hopes on them selling out to cover a huge company short fall. Which I'd honestly find super hard to imagine is the case. MTG would have to be either heavily missmanaged or have been previously missmanaged and allowed to build up insane levels of debt to be a poor earner now.

Yeah, this is going to have no effect beyond mild embarrassment. WOTC spends just as much money on printing shiny promo cards to give away at every event, send for free to any store that hosts even casual FNM, etc. Hasbro is not going to start firing people from a division with a long record of success just because they had one minor miss on a side product.

My real hope is that the utter failure of attempting to pander to the "MTG finance" parasites causes WOTC to back off a bit on the aggressive monetization and put some more effort into selling products by making a quality game. We need well-designed sets, not 15 different collector versions of each card and so many product formats you need a chart to explain which one to buy. And we sure as hell don't need the parasites with their failed crypto scams and obsession with LINE GOES UP.