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Per Bell Of Lost Souls, we the players and third party providers are to blame for current codex writ  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2022/11/warhammer-40k-third-party-miniatures-are-ruining-the-game.html
I almost wonder if they got paid to write this.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Eh its just common sense. Any other brand would do the same thing and heck many other brands already DO ban 3rd party or restrict things at their own official events too. The only difference is GW are way more copied than most others and GW have their own stores to enforce policy, whilst the rest is down to purely local events, local stores and local reps (who in most cases outside of the club nearest to the company's factory/home base; is just volunteers from the community).



So yeah there's nothing really all that surprising in that article.
It's sound basic logic that's been said for ages.

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Made in it
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Just a typical clickbait BoLS bad take. Nothing to see here.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



Dudley, UK

Yup, nonsense. I'd almost suspect the OP had an axe to grind. if it weren't for all the evidence...

...confirming it.

(For the peanut gallery, this is about framing a gak take as a paid take, just latching on regardless of merit)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/11/24 18:19:37


 
   
Made in it
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Catulle wrote:
Yup, nonsense. I'd almost suspect the OP had an axe to grind. if it weren't for all the evidence...

...confirming it.


BoLS OP or Dakka OP?

The article is pure hokum. The fact that people are defending it is proof the GW kool aid sinks deep.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



Dudley, UK

 Grimtuff wrote:
Catulle wrote:
Yup, nonsense. I'd almost suspect the OP had an axe to grind. if it weren't for all the evidence...

...confirming it.


BoLS OP or Dakka OP?

The article is pure hokum. The fact that people are defending it is proof the GW kool aid sinks deep.


I expanded a bit on edit, but it's spiralling hokum either way.
   
Made in mx
Huge Hierodule




Mexico

That article is basically a nothing burger. The fact that 3rd party models hurt GW and thus GW has tried to minimize them as much as possible with NMNR is just basic logic.
   
Made in it
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 Tyran wrote:
That article is basically a nothing burger. The fact that 3rd party models hurt GW and thus GW has tried to minimize them as much as possible with NMNR is just basic logic.


Ignoring the fact you can find 3rd party models for codex entries...

So no logic to be found there at all.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator




EviscerationPlague wrote:
https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2022/11/warhammer-40k-third-party-miniatures-are-ruining-the-game.html
I almost wonder if they got paid to write this.


BOLS is clickbait trash and I doubt they have any genuine opinions on the subject. But the clickbait worked. You got outraged at the headline, clicked on it, and then rage posted it here for more people to click. Just stop acknowledging that BOLS exists and let them scream their nonsense into the void.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

The premise of the article falls straight down once you realize that gw has moved beyond "NMNR" into "Yeah, the bits are in the kit, but we decided that you can't use them" for some units while allowing kit bashing in multiple instances in the same codex. There is no logic to what gw does. They just do it.
   
Made in mx
Huge Hierodule




Mexico

 Grimtuff wrote:


Ignoring the fact you can find 3rd party models for codex entries...

So no logic to be found there at all.

Those usually end being fought in the courtroom as GW tends to have a higher chance at winning if the 3rd party is blatantly copying a GW model.

But if no GW model exist then GW has no real chance even with lawyers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/11/24 18:35:48


 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






The classic "competition hurts my bottom line so it's the consumers fault that we are using anti consumer business practices" arguement. Competition should encourage competitive prices and be a net positive for the people but instead of competing, GW tries to box in what is allowed to be used to maintain their pseudo monopoly.

BOLS is a trash website in general but this article is very much defending the abuser and appeal to authority. If they used at least two brain cells, they realize that people wouldn't buy 3rd party models unless GW's products didn't satisfy market desires (be it affordability, variety, customization, design, etc). The fact that a smaller scale business can release products that are often similar or even cheaper than what GW sells despite GW having economy of scale on their side speaks volumes to how GW is overcharging for their stuff (or has terrible operational budget efficiency if current pricing is somehow GW being reasonable).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/11/24 18:56:30


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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Grimtuff wrote:
 Tyran wrote:
That article is basically a nothing burger. The fact that 3rd party models hurt GW and thus GW has tried to minimize them as much as possible with NMNR is just basic logic.


Ignoring the fact you can find 3rd party models for codex entries...

So no logic to be found there at all.


The logic is if GW has no model to sell and no model to market then the 3rd party takes 100% of sales. Furthermore it creates reasons for customers to go searching for 3rd party options. Don't forget at one time Tyranids went through at least 2 full codex editions with new named character models that never had a GW model made. Heck the Parasite only got released this year.

So GW goes "no model no rules" because at least then GW isn't giving customers a reason to go looking at the 3rd party market and can at least compete with their own shiny model on the shelves to sell to customers.

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Made in gb
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne




GW are responsible for the lack of rules and options in the codex, because of their reaction to 3rd party providers and other factors.

The important message in the article is about LGS struggling when people turn up with printed models in essence, which is true regardless of what GW do.

Outside of that GW as an entity have been placed in a situation that warranted a reaction from them, due to a loss of (potential) sales. I think they've overreacted in terms of rules writing, having some weapon options or combos not in the box is fine, but I think clamping down on proxy models for full units is a fair response for their own events and removing units that they can't support is also fair game.

Contrary to the title of the post and the initial rage in here I don't think the article is either pro or anti GW in any capacity really, there's a lot of simple business logic and facts, right or wrong.
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator




 Vankraken wrote:
If they used at least two brain cells, they realize that people wouldn't buy 3rd party models unless GW's products didn't satisfy market desires


They know it. They also know that if they deliberately post lies about third-party models people will rage post the link everywhere and generate more clicks and more ad revenue. Stop falling for the BOLS clickbait game.
   
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

That site is more like BOWELS at this point
   
Made in gb
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle




 Vankraken wrote:
The classic "competition hurts my bottom line so it's the consumers fault that we are using anti consumer business practices" arguement. Competition should encourage competitive prices and be a net positive for the people but instead of competing, GW tries to box in what is allowed to be used to maintain their pseudo monopoly.

BOLS is a trash website in general but this article is very much defending the abuser and appeal to authority. If they used at least two brain cells, they realize that people wouldn't buy 3rd party models unless GW's products didn't satisfy market desires (be it affordability, variety, customization, design, etc). The fact that a smaller scale business can release products that are often similar or even cheaper than what GW sells despite GW having economy of scale on their side speaks volumes to how GW is overcharging for their stuff (or has terrible operational budget efficiency if current pricing is somehow GW being reasonable).


Can people stop comparing GW to abusers, it is vile.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Vankraken wrote:
The classic "competition hurts my bottom line so it's the consumers fault that we are using anti consumer business practices" arguement.

Hah! That's a hilarious summation, nice one!

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Dai wrote:
 Vankraken wrote:
The classic "competition hurts my bottom line so it's the consumers fault that we are using anti consumer business practices" arguement. Competition should encourage competitive prices and be a net positive for the people but instead of competing, GW tries to box in what is allowed to be used to maintain their pseudo monopoly.

BOLS is a trash website in general but this article is very much defending the abuser and appeal to authority. If they used at least two brain cells, they realize that people wouldn't buy 3rd party models unless GW's products didn't satisfy market desires (be it affordability, variety, customization, design, etc). The fact that a smaller scale business can release products that are often similar or even cheaper than what GW sells despite GW having economy of scale on their side speaks volumes to how GW is overcharging for their stuff (or has terrible operational budget efficiency if current pricing is somehow GW being reasonable).


Can people stop comparing GW to abusers, it is vile.


Nah, I'm here for it. It brings the abuses of capitalism into frame.
   
Made in us
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'




Crescent City Fl..

Not going to give BoLS any clicks they're trash.
Don't need to read the article to disagree with the primes.
Frankly chasing the next new edition is part of the problem GW needs to sell it and the models but we don't have to buy it. GW can decide to add 8.5 percent to the costs game shops pay for their product as well as raising their prices and we're suppose to be ok with that? The minis are nice but not that nice. And my 3rd party IG regiment that I cobbled together and put my time and energy into for my own enjoyment is irrelevant to GW's bottom line. GW can say I can't take them to a GW shop or event and that's fine I don't take this army out of my house. It's not my fault GW doesn't even sell models I feel I have to have, by all means GW keep selling Cadians and good luck with that I am sure some rube will throw lots of money at them. No offence if you really like them, if you do then by all means enjoy. Heck, Gw can't/wont even sell a book now that wont be faq'd with in a month of it being released. Honestly, give me more fan made codex books, army lists and rule sets.
Just my thoughts on the matter, ymmv.
Thought maybe I should add that in the many years I have ben playing I have bought roughly 20 or more armies because of course. Just so no one think all I own is some cobbled together IG regiment made from hard plastic 3rd party minis and green stuff. Anywhoo.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/11/25 02:28:45


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Hecaton wrote:
Dai wrote:
 Vankraken wrote:
The classic "competition hurts my bottom line so it's the consumers fault that we are using anti consumer business practices" arguement. Competition should encourage competitive prices and be a net positive for the people but instead of competing, GW tries to box in what is allowed to be used to maintain their pseudo monopoly.

BOLS is a trash website in general but this article is very much defending the abuser and appeal to authority. If they used at least two brain cells, they realize that people wouldn't buy 3rd party models unless GW's products didn't satisfy market desires (be it affordability, variety, customization, design, etc). The fact that a smaller scale business can release products that are often similar or even cheaper than what GW sells despite GW having economy of scale on their side speaks volumes to how GW is overcharging for their stuff (or has terrible operational budget efficiency if current pricing is somehow GW being reasonable).


Can people stop comparing GW to abusers, it is vile.


Nah, I'm here for it. It brings the abuses of capitalism into frame.


GW are at worst ripping off some middle class nerds so id say there are far better targets when aiming for that. Unless there are worse atrocities, taking advantage of Chinese workers?

Nevertheless GW does not manipulate or gaslight, they are not abusing their customer base. They are selling a non vital, non addictive product and anyone can walk away anytime.
   
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I stopped taking Bell of Lost Trolls seriously years ago, even with salt they're just... well very internet.

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Fixture of Dakka




Dai 807817 11459451 wrote:Can people stop comparing GW to abusers, it is vile.

Financial abuse is a thing. Creating a situation where people invest their own money in to a product and then have to repeate the mantra of , maybe next FAQ,CA,Codex,Edition my army will be fun very much sounds like abuse.

Unless there are worse atrocities, taking advantage of Chinese workers?

How about what they do to players outside of western Europe,UK and US ? Being "late" with shipments to stores, making stores sign contracts which make it unable to buy stuff from suppliers from near by countries, but instead being forced to buy from GW directly at a marked up price. Sending two palets of a super popular product for an entire country (indomitus). Forcing stores to buy a product no one wants to buy, if they want to get even a single box of a stuff that does sell. Magicaly being able to supply their own store and being able to sell stuff online to people in specific countries, but not being able to supply the same merch to stores. Which all things cumulate in to FLGS going out of business, because people don't have the models they want to play, so they print/recast and then stop playing and just do that as a side job.

Do I have to go in to the whole rules thing? Where GW anwser to whole factions being bad, a problem they created, because they write the rules, and a problem they did not react for years, is "it is a noob faction".

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





It doesnt make sense to say that GW expected players to find their own models for the ork battle wagon and then responded to 3rd party models by creating the no model no rules policy.


Having no model for a set of rules was a real pain for me as a kid with no concept of kit bashing let alone 3rd party models and internet.

And why would a GW organised tournament allow 3rd party mini, obviously these tournaments are part of their business model
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran





Dudeface wrote:

Contrary to the title of the post and the initial rage in here I don't think the article is either pro or anti GW in any capacity really, there's a lot of simple business logic and facts, right or wrong.

You have atrocious media literacy, then. Scroll up and tell me the title of the article.

Then tell me even a single arrangement of words in the format of "________ is ruining ________" where the statement isn't anti the first object and pro the second. It may be possible, with some twisted wordplay, so I'd legitimately love to see you achieve it.


LONG LIFE EXPECTANCY is ruining DEATH.

IBUPROFEN is ruining MY HEADACHE.

PAPER TOWEL is ruining THIS MESS.

   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




mrFickle wrote:
It doesnt make sense to say that GW expected players to find their own models for the ork battle wagon and then responded to 3rd party models by creating the no model no rules policy.


Having no model for a set of rules was a real pain for me as a kid with no concept of kit bashing let alone 3rd party models and internet.

And why would a GW organised tournament allow 3rd party mini, obviously these tournaments are part of their business model


But it is not a question of tournaments, or just tournaments. GW is changing the rules, as in load outs and access to models, even ones they produced, just to fit what they can sell right now. So if they don't have and don't have a new Yarik model, then it doesn't matter that people have bought the model from them, and have it. They will remove it. And it is not just old models which are in resin. They removed cpt Artemis, a new plastic model, and the stuff they did to the DG line is what we call here as "magical".

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Banelord Titan Princeps of Khorne




 Altruizine wrote:
Dudeface wrote:

Contrary to the title of the post and the initial rage in here I don't think the article is either pro or anti GW in any capacity really, there's a lot of simple business logic and facts, right or wrong.

You have atrocious media literacy, then. Scroll up and tell me the title of the article.


I can tell you the name of the article, what I didn't do was differentiate the part where I was referring to the title of the post from BoLS rather than this thread. Since there was a small amount of ambiguity left I'll let that slide.

Then tell me even a single arrangement of words in the format of "________ is ruining ________" where the statement isn't anti the first object and pro the second. It may be possible, with some twisted wordplay, so I'd legitimately love to see you achieve it.


LONG LIFE EXPECTANCY is ruining DEATH.

IBUPROFEN is ruining MY HEADACHE.

PAPER TOWEL is ruining THIS MESS.



Fun experiment, because we've established that I was saying that the content of the BoLS post is able to be separated from the hyperbolic clickbait title, the string "ruin" does not appear in any format in the entire article. Maybe read it before you fire off about other peoples relative levels of literacy.
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Dudeface 807817 11459544 wrote:

Fun experiment, because we've established that I was saying that the content of the BoLS post is able to be separated from the hyperbolic clickbait title, the string "ruin" does not appear in any format in the entire article. Maybe read it before you fire off about other peoples relative levels of literacy.


"Due to its success, GW has gotten a lot of copy-cats, some of which make models or bits for 40K itself, which is now hurting the game. "
Like the third or fourth sentance in the article.

Lets see how the word sounds when replacing ruin. Long life expectancy ruins death rates. I would say it is good enough. but my grasp of english isn't the best.


Which is interesting, because it means that the article writer, seemt to wants to say, that GW and the Game are somehow the same thing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/11/25 09:18:46


If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Karol wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
It doesnt make sense to say that GW expected players to find their own models for the ork battle wagon and then responded to 3rd party models by creating the no model no rules policy.


Having no model for a set of rules was a real pain for me as a kid with no concept of kit bashing let alone 3rd party models and internet.

And why would a GW organised tournament allow 3rd party mini, obviously these tournaments are part of their business model


But it is not a question of tournaments, or just tournaments. GW is changing the rules, as in load outs and access to models, even ones they produced, just to fit what they can sell right now. So if they don't have and don't have a new Yarik model, then it doesn't matter that people have bought the model from them, and have it. They will remove it. And it is not just old models which are in resin. They removed cpt Artemis, a new plastic model, and the stuff they did to the DG line is what we call here as "magical".


Aren’t there legends rules for yarrick, as an example?

It also wouldn’t be fair for people to be able to use a model/rules from years ago that new players don’t have access to because it OOP.

   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut




Berlin, Germany

 Vankraken wrote:
The classic "competition hurts my bottom line so it's the consumers fault that we are using anti consumer business practices" arguement.

BOLS is a trash website in general but this article is very much defending the abuser and appeal to authority.

Pretty much this.

The article is not just wrong, it is stupid. Other than that: nothing to see there, moving on.
   
 
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