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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I posted a message in the Brother Vinni thread to tell people of a miniature currently on sale in their website, and to link back to discussions about it that happened here on Dakka when the miniature was initially released and advertised.
That post seems to have disappeared, without any explanation. Is it a technical glitch or a moderation decision? If it's a moderation decision, what is the rationale behind it? Why didn't I receive a PM?
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





The Shire(s)

I am also very curious, as it was a good post that helped inform people so they could make purchasing decisions in line with their ethics.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

It was removed as it was off topic for a news and rumours thread, and was a blatant attempt to stir up drama.


 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

Would it be off topic and a blatant attempt to stir up drama if, say, Daniel Mandelbaum started a news and rumours thread about a new store and people pointed out their previous actions so people could make a fully informed choice as to whether they wanted to support that person with their money?

I know if I found out that I monetarily supported someone who made a model based on incredibly misogynistic propaganda aimed at an opponent of an oppressive regime which is currently invading their neighbour, and that information was actively hidden from me by the site that allowed them to advertise, I'd be very annoyed to say the least.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/20 00:37:11


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Nobody has 'actively hidden' anything. The slavegirl thread still exists, and the miniature is seemingly still available from Vinni's website. Vinni's current news thread also still exists, and is a fairly clear example of the sort of work he produces. The incredibly misogynistic nature of his miniature catalogue is pretty blatant even without drive-by posts from new accounts seemingly created purely to stir up drama.


 
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

How is removing a post which is telling users about the nature of the artist that dakka is allowing to advertise, at a time when knowledge of propaganda such as that which gave rise to the ukrainian slave girl model in question is even more important than it was at the time of its original discussion as it is currently being used by Russia to justify an invasion, not actively hiding it?

How can you justify allowing misogynistic material to be advertised on dakka but then turn around and remove criticism of that material as being "off topic" or "an attempt to stir up drama?" Surely advertising such material in itself is the attempt to stir up drama, as seen by people who respond to it to point out its misogynistic nature.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/20 11:56:58


The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






 insaniak wrote:
Nobody has 'actively hidden' anything. The slavegirl thread still exists, and the miniature is seemingly still available from Vinni's website. Vinni's current news thread also still exists, and is a fairly clear example of the sort of work he produces. The incredibly misogynistic nature of his miniature catalogue is pretty blatant even without drive-by posts from new accounts seemingly created purely to stir up drama.



I didn’t realize Dakka was pro-misogynistic and content to advertise such.

 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
How can you justify allowing misogynistic material to be advertised on dakka but then turn around and remove criticism of that material as being "off topic" or "an attempt to stir up drama?"

To be clear - it was off topic drama-stirring because it was nothing to do with the news thread in which it was posted. Someone created a new account seemingly specifically to comment on a miniature released a decade ago. That's not news, and so doesn't belong in a news thread.


 AduroT wrote:
I didn’t realize Dakka was pro-misogynistic and content to advertise such.

Dakka is not 'pro-misogynistic'. Dakka is also not pro-genocide, or pro-killing-witches, but allows for Warhammer content to be posted because it is relevant to the purpose of the site, which is to talk about miniature gaming. Vinni's range may not be to some peoples' tastes (and it's certainly not to mine) but it's relevant to miniature gaming, so is allowed with appropriate NSFW tagging for the benefit of those who prefer to avoid such things.



 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

Really surprised and I have to say disappointed by the 'official' reply here Insaniak.

I have bought minis from Brother Vinni before after reading his news thread on Dakka and, after finding out what some of his range represents, feel soiled for having done so. There now still exists the possibility that someone could do the same, which I think is unnaceptable.

In light at what has happened over the past year it would be very easy for Brother Vinni to remove the contentious items from his store. Not doing so gives a pretty easy read on where his sensitivities lie.

It feels unreal to actually have to be writing this. To me, this is a pretty fething low bar to be able to reach in the context of what is happening in Ukraine. Get the guys thread out of N&R, ban, its that simple. Im sure it wont stop his sales, but at least Dakka will have no part in it, and people should know about it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/21 11:50:09


Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page

 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





The Shire(s)

Yes, allowing someone to use Dakka's reach and reputation to advertise their products is not a neutral decision, and particularly not when considering what the person in question is supporting.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin






why should it be up to dakka to be the morality police?
shouldnt that be up to the buyer?
   
Made in gb
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
why should it be up to dakka to be the morality police?
shouldnt that be up to the buyer?


Why should it be up to Dakka to determine what they feel is suitable for their site? I mean, would they allow a user to advertise "Globalist Banker" miniatures which just so happen to be perfect representations of anti-semitic stereotypes and propaganda? Or how about "Tribal Spearchucker" featuring all the hallmarks of racist black stereotypes.

Because that is the equivalent of the "ukrainian slave girl".

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





The Shire(s)

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
why should it be up to dakka to be the morality police?
shouldnt that be up to the buyer?

That would be an option... except the post informing potential customers and allowing them to come to their own conclusions was deleted. By Dakka. Which means they are choosing to police, at which point...

You can read the rest of the thread to find this out, it is the entire reason it exists.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
 usernamesareannoying wrote:
why should it be up to dakka to be the morality police?
shouldnt that be up to the buyer?


Why should it be up to Dakka to determine what they feel is suitable for their site? I mean, would they allow a user to advertise "Globalist Banker" miniatures which just so happen to be perfect representations of anti-semitic stereotypes and propaganda? Or how about "Tribal Spearchucker" featuring all the hallmarks of racist black stereotypes.

Because that is the equivalent of the "ukrainian slave girl".

It is worse than that, because the model in question was overtly based on a particular politician opposed to the regime that the creator is resident in and presumably supports.

This is more like if your "globalist banker" model happened to look just like George Soros or something...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/21 15:41:06


 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






 usernamesareannoying wrote:
why should it be up to dakka to be the morality police?
shouldnt that be up to the buyer?


Well if Dakka isn’t going to be the morality police how about we just ditch rule #1 and let people go hog wild.

 
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

 insaniak wrote:

Dakka is not 'pro-misogynistic'.


Are you sure? Because that's how it looks to the outside. Horribly indefensibly misogynistic mini's are defended and anyone pointing out how tasteless (for lack of a better word) they are, are silenced. There's precious little to keep me browsing Dakka at the best of times, the last thing I want is content that makes me actually think "eww".

The gaming world seems to be pretty misogynistic on the whole, but at least some people are trying to address that and at least trying to avoid chasing away what few women are actually interested in the hobby.

Let's be realistic here; we're not talking about a random generic slave miniature here, but one modelled on a real person who is in a country that's currently being invaded by the artists country. That it's even open to debate is weird.

Vinni has some incredible miniatures, but is totally letting himself and the site down by posting a few that just aren't acceptable in polite society. I wouldn't play someone who brought out that mini, and it doesn't look like I'm alone.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/21 16:21:42


 
   
Made in gb
Infiltrating Broodlord






Wow. I did see and subsequently avoided a thread mentioned here but didn't comprehend exactly how dodgy it was. Thanks for alerting me, folks.

Would've thought it's the model in question that's stirring up drama, not those who call it out. I hope the management reconsider.

   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






I think something important for Dakka mods to keep in mind is the implications of allowing or not allowing certain posts. By allowing Vinny to keep their misogynistic models up, Dakka implicitly says, "Yes, this misogynistic content is ok." By taking down a post designed to inform other users, Dakka is implicitly saying "It is not ok to inform others of who they're buying from."

I'm sure someone else can put it into words better, but my point is by allowing one sort of post and then deleting another carries implicit approval and disapproval of those posts. These actions have said "it is ok to be sexist" and "it is not ok to inform others that the person they are buying from is sexist." And the reasoning doesn't help either. "It isn't the content that's the problem, it's the people who are pointing out that it's problematic who are the problem. They're ones trying to stir up drama, not the modelmaker who's purposefully trying to be controversial."

And of course, that's not even really taking into context the whole Ukrainian part of the "Ukrainian slavegirl."

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/12/21 19:08:48


DQ:90S++G++M----B--I+Pw40k07+D+++A+++/areWD-R+DM+


bittersashes wrote:One guy down at my gaming club swore he saw an objective flag take out a full unit of Bane Thralls.
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Wolfblade wrote:
By taking down a post designed to inform other users, Dakka is implicitly saying "It is not ok to inform others of who they're buying from."

And this, I think, is where the disconnect is coming from. I didn't take down a post designed to inform other users of something. I took down a post from a drive-by account that was designed to stir up controversy. Which is, going by this ensuing discussion, exactly what it did.


So far as allowing this sort of miniature content in the first place... it's certainly possible that it's time for another discussion around that. When we've had similar discussions in the past (IIRC around the Manufactura range or the infamous Eldar rape diorama) any suggestion of us not allowing these sorts of ranges on the site was met with accusations of puritanical fascist censorship. And so the decision was made to allow it and let people decide for themselves whether or not to support the companies making these sorts of miniatures. If we start censoring release threads based on what we personally think is appropriate for the table, we potentially make it harder for people to make informed decisions.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/21 19:50:44


 
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






 insaniak wrote:
 Wolfblade wrote:
By taking down a post designed to inform other users, Dakka is implicitly saying "It is not ok to inform others of who they're buying from."

And this, I think, is where the disconnect is coming from. I didn't take down a post designed to inform other users of something. I took down a post from a drive-by account that was designed to stir up controversy. Which is, going by this ensuing discussion, exactly what it did.

Frankly, this seems like a weak excuse and a mischaracterization of the post. I don't think the intent was to "stir up drama" but to inform others of who they're buying from. I feel this mod action was done and now justifications are being looked for to see what sticks, but that might be partly my history and view of dakka's moderation always siding with the person instigating the issue.

Plus, the literal years of allowing rape fantasy models feed into the half you left out. Hell, I reported a bunch of the models and I know others did too, so I guess that type of content is ok and endorsed by dakka?

 insaniak wrote:

So far as allowing this sort of miniature content in the first place... it's certainly possible that it's time for another discussion around that. When we've had similar discussions in the past (IIRC around the Manufactura range or the infamous Eldar rape diorama) any suggestion of us not allowing these sorts of ranges on the site was met with accusations of puritanical fascist censorship. And so the decision was made to allow it and let people decide for themselves whether or not to support the companies making these sorts of miniatures. If we start censoring release threads based on what we personally think is appropriate for the table, we potentially make it harder for people to make informed decisions.

Yeah, I'd personally say the wrong decision was reached in the first place. I don't know how "welcoming" dakka intends to be to newer players and hobbyists, but allowing misogynistic content or rape fantasy stuff inherently makes the space less welcoming, and attracts the unwashed basement dweller sort. The nudity isn't really the issue, it's the way it's used (although the nudity tends to attract those who generally need to go and touch some grass too). Also, sometimes the right decision isn't the popular decision. Making rules based purely on what's popular will always have problems, but that's for a different discussion on a different forum probably as it'd inevitably devolve into political comparisons.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/12/21 20:11:58


DQ:90S++G++M----B--I+Pw40k07+D+++A+++/areWD-R+DM+


bittersashes wrote:One guy down at my gaming club swore he saw an objective flag take out a full unit of Bane Thralls.
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Wolfblade wrote:

Frankly, this seems like a weak excuse and a mischaracterization of the post. I don't think the intent was to "stir up drama" but to inform others of who they're buying from.

You're welcome to think that. I disagree. The way the post was written and the fact that it was written by a brand new account very strongly said that it was just drama-bait.




Yeah, I'd personally say the wrong decision was reached in the first place. I don't know how "welcoming" dakka intends to be to newer players and hobbyists, but allowing misogynistic content or rape fantasy stuff inherently makes the space less welcoming, and attracts the unwashed basement dweller sort. The nudity isn't really the issue, it's the way it's used (although the nudity tends to attract those who generally need to go and touch some grass too). Also, sometimes the right decision isn't the popular decision. Making rules based purely on what's popular will always have problems, but that's for a different discussion on a different forum probably as it'd inevitably devolve into political comparisons.

It's less about making decisions based on what's popular and more about making decisions that aren't going to lead to more problems than they solve. Currently, people can see Vinni's range and choose whether or not to support that business. If we start censoring parts of the range, we make that less clear because people only see the sanitised version of his range, and we open ourselves up to continual accusations of bias and arguments over whether or not a given model crosses the line. Personally, I would rather have the ability to make an informed decision myself. Your mileage may vary.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/21 20:26:47


 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Is there still an up-front, made abundantly clear reason why that particular model causes this drama though?

Genuine question. I've stopped following that thread long ago specifically because of trash like that.
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






 insaniak wrote:
 Wolfblade wrote:

Frankly, this seems like a weak excuse and a mischaracterization of the post. I don't think the intent was to "stir up drama" but to inform others of who they're buying from.

You're welcome to think that. I disagree. The way the post was written and the fact that it was written by a brand new account very strongly said that it was just drama-bait.

Yeah, I'd personally say the wrong decision was reached in the first place. I don't know how "welcoming" dakka intends to be to newer players and hobbyists, but allowing misogynistic content or rape fantasy stuff inherently makes the space less welcoming, and attracts the unwashed basement dweller sort. The nudity isn't really the issue, it's the way it's used (although the nudity tends to attract those who generally need to go and touch some grass too). Also, sometimes the right decision isn't the popular decision. Making rules based purely on what's popular will always have problems, but that's for a different discussion on a different forum probably as it'd inevitably devolve into political comparisons.

It's less about making decisions based on what's popular and more about making decisions that aren't going to lead to more problems than they solve. Currently, people can see Vinni's range and choose whether or not to support that business. If we start censoring parts of the range, we make that less clear because people only see the sanitised version of his range, and we open ourselves up to continual accusations of bias and arguments over whether or not a given model crosses the line. Personally, I would rather have the ability to make an informed decision myself. Your mileage may vary.


First, dakka has already long since opened itself up to criticism by allowing the Heckler's Veto basically everywhere. Female Space Marines spring to mind, is that topic still banned? Didn't a thread based entirely on supporting those affected by the war in Ukraine get shut down because people got political? I'm sure there are numerous other examples too. Basically, my point is dakka makes the easy choice, not the right or correct choice. Instead of punishing or reprimanding those who are consistently toxic, dakka punishes everyone BUT them. They, ironically, get exactly what they want.

Finally, I don't think the only options are "censor part of the range" or "censor nothing." You could just not allow them any more than you'd allow Daniel Mandelbaum. You could determine people who make certain types of models (i.e. rape fantasy stuff) don't deserve to promote themselves on this site. Basically, you don't have to give them a platform, or even a partial platform to sell their stuff on. And if people complain, tell them to report it stuff that violates the rules and then deal with it as appropriate.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Is there still an up-front, made abundantly clear reason why that particular model causes this drama though?

Genuine question. I've stopped following that thread long ago specifically because of trash like that.

Personally, it's not just that one model (although that model has a lot of baggage based on when it came out and it being specifically Ukrainian), but all of their rape fantasy models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/21 21:14:02


DQ:90S++G++M----B--I+Pw40k07+D+++A+++/areWD-R+DM+


bittersashes wrote:One guy down at my gaming club swore he saw an objective flag take out a full unit of Bane Thralls.
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

 Wolfblade wrote:

First, dakka has already long since opened itself up to criticism by allowing the Heckler's Veto basically everywhere. Female Space Marines spring to mind, is that topic still banned? Didn't a thread based entirely on supporting those affected by the war in Ukraine get shut down because people got political? I'm sure there are numerous other examples too. Basically, my point is dakka makes the easy choice, not the right or correct choice. Instead of punishing or reprimanding those who are consistently toxic, dakka punishes everyone BUT them. They, ironically, get exactly what they want.

This is actually a really good illustration of the problem with drawing lines. There is a fairly extensive list of problem posters who have been permanently removed from this site... but because we don't act on certain accounts that you see as a problem, or don't do so in the way you personally expect, you apparently believe that we don't actually deal with toxic posters at all. The problem isn't that we don't deal with toxic posters, it's that we don't put the threshold for action in the same place you might.


Finally, I don't think the only options are "censor part of the range" or "censor nothing." You could just not allow them any more than you'd allow Daniel Mandelbaum. You could determine people who make certain types of models (i.e. rape fantasy stuff) don't deserve to promote themselves on this site. Basically, you don't have to give them a platform, or even a partial platform to sell their stuff on. And if people complain, tell them to report it stuff that violates the rules and then deal with it as appropriate.

OK, so we ban Vinni, and Manufactura. And then what? Do we ban Hasslefree for making nude and politically-inspired models? Do we ban 40K for promoting genocide?

Yes, that's a slippery slope argument, but it's to make a point. We wouldn't promote Mandelbaum on the site because he was engaged in actual criminal behaviour. That's very different to banning miniature producers because they make a model that depicts a subject we find personally distasteful, and once we start doing that we wind up with endless arguments about which other models are also distasteful enough to warrant their manufacturers being censored.

I don't think it's so much about the 'easy choice' as about not putting some fairly unrealistic and unfair expectations on a bunch of hobbyists who moderate a gaming forum in their spare time. We're here to try to keep the forum running in a more or less congenial fashion, not to be self-appointed morality police.

 
   
Made in us
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife






 insaniak wrote:
 Wolfblade wrote:

First, dakka has already long since opened itself up to criticism by allowing the Heckler's Veto basically everywhere. Female Space Marines spring to mind, is that topic still banned? Didn't a thread based entirely on supporting those affected by the war in Ukraine get shut down because people got political? I'm sure there are numerous other examples too. Basically, my point is dakka makes the easy choice, not the right or correct choice. Instead of punishing or reprimanding those who are consistently toxic, dakka punishes everyone BUT them. They, ironically, get exactly what they want.

This is actually a really good illustration of the problem with drawing lines. There is a fairly extensive list of problem posters who have been permanently removed from this site... but because we don't act on certain accounts that you see as a problem, or don't do so in the way you personally expect, you apparently believe that we don't actually deal with toxic posters at all. The problem isn't that we don't deal with toxic posters, it's that we don't put the threshold for action in the same place you might.


I'm not even talking about full bans, but section bans. There were certain users who were incredibly toxic to any remotely political or political adjacent topic that would consistently act in a manner to get the threads shut down( A mod even did this) and they never got slapped with any punishments. Instead, everyone else got punished because now the topic is banned. Same with Female Space Marines, and I assume the War in Ukraine topic.

 insaniak wrote:

Finally, I don't think the only options are "censor part of the range" or "censor nothing." You could just not allow them any more than you'd allow Daniel Mandelbaum. You could determine people who make certain types of models (i.e. rape fantasy stuff) don't deserve to promote themselves on this site. Basically, you don't have to give them a platform, or even a partial platform to sell their stuff on. And if people complain, tell them to report it stuff that violates the rules and then deal with it as appropriate.

OK, so we ban Vinni, and Manufactura. And then what? Do we ban Hasslefree for making nude and politically-inspired models? Do we ban 40K for promoting genocide?

Yes, that's a slippery slope argument, but it's to make a point. We wouldn't promote Mandelbaum on the site because he was engaged in actual criminal behaviour. That's very different to banning miniature producers because they make a model that depicts a subject we find personally distasteful, and once we start doing that we wind up with endless arguments about which other models are also distasteful enough to warrant their manufacturers being censored.

I don't think it's so much about the 'easy choice' as about not putting some fairly unrealistic and unfair expectations on a bunch of hobbyists who moderate a gaming forum in their spare time. We're here to try to keep the forum running in a more or less congenial fashion, not to be self-appointed morality police.


Again, the issue isn't nudity, but the rape slave fantasy associated with said nudity. Also, in case you missed it, 40k is not pro-genocide. Everything in 40k is either a parody or satirical take on something in real life. It is not endorsing genocide or promoting it in any fashion. If you believe it is, congrats, you've missed the entire point of 40k and a very public statement by GW.

Also, dakka's moderation is typically all about the "easiest" choice. It's "easier" to ban talking about FSM than it is to deal with people throwing tantrums that someone enjoys the hobby differently. It's easier to ban talking about Ukraine or politics than it is to reprimand those who consistently make it a shitshow.

It's easier to ban what you think is a "drive-by account" than it is to deal with the rape slave fantasy models.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/21 21:47:26


DQ:90S++G++M----B--I+Pw40k07+D+++A+++/areWD-R+DM+


bittersashes wrote:One guy down at my gaming club swore he saw an objective flag take out a full unit of Bane Thralls.
 
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

 insaniak wrote:

OK, so we ban Vinni, and Manufactura. And then what? Do we ban Hasslefree for making nude and politically-inspired models? Do we ban 40K for promoting genocide?


You can surely tell the difference between a Hasslefree nude mini and a rape fantasy mini, right?

40K doesn't promote genocide either. It's a parody game showing how pointless never ending war is.

That's very different to banning miniature producers because they make a model that depicts a subject we find personally distasteful, and once we start doing that we wind up with endless arguments about which other models are also distasteful enough to warrant their manufacturers being censored.


It's not about being personally distasteful, it's about it being distasteful to the community at large. Would you paint one of Vinnis slave girls and show it to your gran at Christmas dinner? Or on a display at a convention or open gaming? I bet not.

Tabletop gaming, and Dakka, have a bit of a reputation already for being, well, creepy, and not very welcoming to new people, because of exactly that sort of thing. I wonder how many women have been interested in gaming, been browsing the news/rumours section, seen the tacit endorsement of stuff like that and gone "gak no, I'm out"? We'll never know, because they won't post about it.
   
Made in nz
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot




Haha, this thread is a great example of why they prune this sort of stuff. Everyone with a horse in the race can't help but ooze their agenda when posting.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



Dudley, UK

 Wolfblade wrote:
I think something important for Dakka mods to keep in mind is the implications of allowing or not allowing certain posts. By allowing Vinny to keep their misogynistic models up, Dakka implicitly says, "Yes, this misogynistic content is ok." By taking down a post designed to inform other users, Dakka is implicitly saying "It is not ok to inform others of who they're buying from."

I'm sure someone else can put it into words better, but my point is by allowing one sort of post and then deleting another carries implicit approval and disapproval of those posts. These actions have said "it is ok to be sexist" and "it is not ok to inform others that the person they are buying from is sexist." And the reasoning doesn't help either. "It isn't the content that's the problem, it's the people who are pointing out that it's problematic who are the problem. They're ones trying to stir up drama, not the modelmaker who's purposefully trying to be controversial."

And of course, that's not even really taking into context the whole Ukrainian part of the "Ukrainian slavegirl."


Yep. It's damning with respect to the site's editorial biases.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

 insaniak wrote:

And this, I think, is where the disconnect is coming from. I didn't take down a post designed to inform other users of something. I took down a post from a drive-by account that was designed to stir up controversy. Which is, going by this ensuing discussion, exactly what it did.


Could this be resolved by having a standalone thread posted by an established user discussing what people think are appropriate or inappropriate depictions in miniatures? Is there a subforum you think best fits that?

I think the Ukrainian slave girl model deserves being flagged to people, but I'd also be really interested in that discussion around a lot of inspired-by models and historicals lines.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/12/21 22:55:28


 
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

nfe wrote:
 insaniak wrote:

And this, I think, is where the disconnect is coming from. I didn't take down a post designed to inform other users of something. I took down a post from a drive-by account that was designed to stir up controversy. Which is, going by this ensuing discussion, exactly what it did.


Could this be resolved by having a standalone thread posted by an established user discussing what people think are appropriate or inappropriate depictions in miniatures? Is there a subforum you think best fits that?

I think the Ukrainian slave girl model deserves being flagged to people, but I'd also be really interested in that discussion around a lot of inspired-by models and historicals lines.


Good shout. If you're going to go with mob rule, then it'd make sense to figure out what the mob want first
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



Dudley, UK

nfe wrote:
 insaniak wrote:

And this, I think, is where the disconnect is coming from. I didn't take down a post designed to inform other users of something. I took down a post from a drive-by account that was designed to stir up controversy. Which is, going by this ensuing discussion, exactly what it did.

I think the Ukrainian slave girl model deserves being flagged to people, but I'd also be really interested in that discussion around a lot of inspired-by models and historicals lines.


What you have is a commercial poster with a history of throwing out Nationalist propaganda who also has this weird thing for sculpting femme humiliation porn. Without explanation or discussion. This, the site feels, is just fine and worthy to continue.

For ten fething years.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/12/22 00:16:53


 
   
 
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