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so in years of 40k, with all its goofiness, i literally just had my first moment of my immersion to be broken while reading a 40k book.

just finished fab bile book 1 and loved it, totally cool. so started fab bile book 2 and towards the beginning two are talking (i think it was bill talking to his goons)

goon: "uh i think it was eldar who did this"
fab bill: "NO donkey-cave, THEY ARE CALLED AELDARI. THAT WAS THEIR NAME IN THEIR ORIGINAL LANGUAGE. WHICH IS TOO COMPLEX FOR A SIMPLE feth LIKE YOU. IT WAS ALWAYS THEIR NAME. YOU ASS.

me: ......well that was completely out of character, 4th wall breaking, and this was written mid 7th edition.

now i cant finish the book, i just cant do it.

anyone else have this moments of immersion breaking that just ruins something?

I've never found GW/BL novels particularly well written.
So this doesn't surprise me.

At best many tend to read like adds for the models.

Any time a book obsessively uses the name of a miniature. A narrator with no reason to know that only ever calls those Chaos heavy weapons guys "Chaos Space Marine Havocs (R)(TM)(C)" (yes, this is an exaggeration) and then you're out of the story and back in the toy commercial.

This should probably belong to the background section, no?

In the Beast arises I had two things I didn't like (or maybe I missed the explanation?)

Any time Nectons feature, and the Cryptek/second in command/rival dynast is plotting to overthrow the lead noble.
...which is practically EVERY NECRON PLOT nowadays.

There's a moment in a book that I otherwise really liked where an eldar warlock turns out to have been possessed by Tzeentch the whole time and abruptly turns into a Lord of Change. And it's like... The whole point of the runes and the warp spiders and so forth is to avoid having that sort of thing happen.

Notable mentions to:
* Salamander goes super saiyan and literally splits a bunch of spaceships in half.
* That time Lelith was actually a Slaanesh worshipper.
* That time Ulthwe's only hope of survival was to invite a DW Kill Team over to solve a drukhari problem for them.
* That time Honsou almost got killed in melee by human with a power sword, and then got promoted over it.

sandor1988 wrote:
so in years of 40k, with all its goofiness, i literally just had my first moment of my immersion to be broken while reading a 40k book.

just finished fab bile book 1 and loved it, totally cool. so started fab bile book 2 and towards the beginning two are talking (i think it was bill talking to his goons)

goon: "uh i think it was eldar who did this"
fab bill: "NO donkey-cave, THEY ARE CALLED AELDARI. THAT WAS THEIR NAME IN THEIR ORIGINAL LANGUAGE. WHICH IS TOO COMPLEX FOR A SIMPLE feth LIKE YOU. IT WAS ALWAYS THEIR NAME. YOU ASS.

me: ......well that was completely out of character, 4th wall breaking, and this was written mid 7th edition.

now i cant finish the book, i just cant do it.

anyone else have this moments of immersion breaking that just ruins something?

Ciaphas Cain did the same thing but not.
Cain:Keep a look out for anything that looks Eldar-y
Amberly: Eldar-y? Is that even a word?

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Any time Nectons feature, and the Cryptek/second in command/rival dynast is plotting to overthrow the lead noble.
...which is practically EVERY NECRON PLOT nowadays.

Well if they will insist on having a direct grand vizier parallel.

Dai wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Any time Nectons feature, and the Cryptek/second in command/rival dynast is plotting to overthrow the lead noble.
...which is practically EVERY NECRON PLOT nowadays.

Well if they will insist on having a direct grand vizier parallel.

Please say that these ranks include a mechanical moustache that they twirl deviously while plotting.

 vipoid wrote:

Dai wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Any time Nectons feature, and the Cryptek/second in command/rival dynast is plotting to overthrow the lead noble.
...which is practically EVERY NECRON PLOT nowadays.

Well if they will insist on having a direct grand vizier parallel.

Please say that these ranks include a mechanical moustache that they twirl deviously while plotting.

Now I have an image of a necron with a long, thin, mustache made of drill-bits.

“My plan is coming together Mwahahaha”
<Vvvivvt, Vivvit>
(power drill noises)

 vipoid wrote:

Dai wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Any time Nectons feature, and the Cryptek/second in command/rival dynast is plotting to overthrow the lead noble.
...which is practically EVERY NECRON PLOT nowadays.

Well if they will insist on having a direct grand vizier parallel.

Please say that these ranks include a mechanical moustache that they twirl deviously while plotting.

GW authors do like to swing a lot of trope around the pages. The Codex™ and the convenient way it supports or abhors whatever action the author needs it to is another one. The Codex tells you to adapt to situations as they arise. Except when we need to send you into the Eye of Chaos on a Redemption arc!

sandor1988 wrote:
so in years of 40k, with all its goofiness, i literally just had my first moment of my immersion to be broken while reading a 40k book.

just finished fab bile book 1 and loved it, totally cool. so started fab bile book 2 and towards the beginning two are talking (i think it was bill talking to his goons)

goon: "uh i think it was eldar who did this"
fab bill: "NO donkey-cave, THEY ARE CALLED AELDARI. THAT WAS THEIR NAME IN THEIR ORIGINAL LANGUAGE. WHICH IS TOO COMPLEX FOR A SIMPLE feth LIKE YOU. IT WAS ALWAYS THEIR NAME. YOU ASS.

me: ......well that was completely out of character, 4th wall breaking, and this was written mid 7th edition.

now i cant finish the book, i just cant do it.

anyone else have this moments of immersion breaking that just ruins something?

No. This post will be somewhat ironic, given that I'm about to correct you, but Clonelord was written going into 8th edition. So you're wrong from the outset.

It's not out of character at all. Bile is consistently shown in all of his appearances (and even in his very first codex entry. What else do you think his motivations for making his "New Men" and tinkering with gene-seed are?) as someone who believes he is the smartest person in the room and is a walking "Akshuaaaalllllllyyyy" in power armour. Did you miss all of those bits in the first book where he is constantly one-upping other characters and looking down his nose at them about how much smarter he is than them?

It is 100% in character for Bile, who it should be noted as well at this point runs a teaching academy for other legion Apothecaries to bask in his genius. So, in his role as a teacher, will constantly want his underlings to sit under the learning tree.

He even does it in the 3rd book when he says the expression "stop and smell the roses", which when looked at dumbfounded by Saqquara insists on telling him the origins of the phrase as roses have been extinct for quite some time, which he ends with "...but one must never overlook an opportunity to decrease the galaxy's supply of ignorance.".

Bile correcting someone on the pronunciation of "Aeldari" is absolutely on brand for him.

I assume that sandor is referring to the meta commentary of Eldar being renamed Aeldari IRL, and then having an in-universe character lampshade the change.

There's a similar passage in the Genestealer Cults novel regarding Hellguns and Hot-shot Lasguns.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I assume that sandor is referring to the meta commentary of Eldar being renamed Aeldari IRL, and then having an in-universe character lampshade the change.

There's a similar passage in the Genestealer Cults novel regarding Hellguns and Hot-shot Lasguns.

I thought it was done quite naturally, giving a nice bridge between 7th and 8th, when they had their "official" rename.

For brevity, here's the passage in question. It's just Bile interjecting himself to be the smartest person in the room (again).

‘Eldar are nothing more than rootless vermin. Fit only as sacrifices.’
‘Aeldari,’ Fabius corrected absently, still watching the daemons.
‘What?’
‘Aeldari – it’s what they called themselves before their empire imploded. Or as close as the human mouth can come to shaping that particular term. A fascinating language. At the height of their culture, even the most banal conversation between equals was akin to a performance.’
‘A useless affectation for a useless race,’ Saqqara said.”

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I assume that sandor is referring to the meta commentary of Eldar being renamed Aeldari IRL, and then having an in-universe character lampshade the change.

There's a similar passage in the Genestealer Cults novel regarding Hellguns and Hot-shot Lasguns.

The Dark Eldar (I refuse to use the term Drukhari as it is too WHFB Dark Elf) called themselves "Eladrith Ynneas" according to a past Codex.

I would have preferred GW to have used Eladrith if the Eldar had to have a renaming. Aeldarii and Alaitocii and other such constructions are too Latin-like (and the faux Latin feel is meant for the Imperium), whereas historically attempts at portraying the Eldar language have either used Celtic languages or tried to go Tolkien Elvish. Either way, they were not Latin derivatives.

An unarmed world eater punching through a custodes armor with his bare fist in the outcast dead is always going to take the cake for me.

An unarmed astartes punching through power armor, ANY power armor (let alone that of a custodes) is just dumb no matter how you look at it.

 Grimtuff wrote:
"stop and smell the roses", which when looked at dumbfounded by Saqquara insists on telling him the origins of the phrase as roses have been extinct for quite some time...

Wrong. There is a region of the galaxy that has a large dust cloud in the shape of a rose. The cloud is home to a system with a planet in the shape of a rose. The planet is covered from pole to pole in roses. It's in the first Black Library publication.
Order of the Sacred Rose.
Order of the Bloody Rose.
There are roses in Celestines hands (old model) and currently there is a platter of roses with petals being cast on the Triumph of Saint Katherine model.
Beiltan craftworld also uses rose thorns in their iconography.

Uptonius wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
"stop and smell the roses", which when looked at dumbfounded by Saqquara insists on telling him the origins of the phrase as roses have been extinct for quite some time...

Wrong. There is a region of the galaxy that has a large dust cloud in the shape of a rose. The cloud is home to a system with a planet in the shape of a rose. The planet is covered from pole to pole in roses. It's in the first Black Library publication.
Order of the Sacred Rose.
Order of the Bloody Rose.
There are roses in Celestines hands (old model) and currently there is a platter of roses with petals being cast on the Triumph of Saint Katherine model.
Beiltan craftworld also uses rose thorns in their iconography.

That's nice, but Fabius was referring to roses that originate on Earth in that scene.

Here's one. How unlucky are the Tau, Tyranids, and (to a lesser extent) Orks that every Summer when they try and take over a world, it's the same world the Orks, Tyranids, and Tau are trying to take over at the same time, and right before Chaos drops out of warp and into Orbit? How lucky are the Imperium that those Tau/Tyranid/Ork invasions already have a crusade force of Space Marines zooming to the planet?

Caprico turned to Helios, and finally gave voice to what the rest of the Primaris Marines were thinking.
‘What are Thunder Warriors?’

This scene is like reading a forum conversation instead of a novel

pelicaniforce wrote:

Caprico turned to Helios, and finally gave voice to what the rest of the Primaris Marines were thinking.
‘What are Thunder Warriors?’

This scene is like reading a forum conversation instead of a novel

is it though?

to me, its just a reinforcement of the fact that we readers have a different perspective on pretty much everything the imperium does. we know full story of the thunder warriors, but the vast majority of people in the imperium dont. most of them, even in the more educated circles, dont even know the propaganda "all died in the final battles of the Unification wars" version. their just another relic of a nearly forgotton past, buried under 10,000 years of decay and grimdark.

Why is it unbelievable for a primaris marine who may never have heard of them, and basically was never in a position to ever learn of them, to ask about them?


not read the full book, so i can;t comment on the response he got or the full scene. would i be amiss to assume someone draws a parallel to between the thunder warriors and firstborn?

I would say the OP example is a nod and a wink, rather than fully immersion or suspension-of-reality breaking. Authors quite often have fun with that sort of thing, I don't mind it as we are already reading about a world that is in many cases a fantasy-fiction rather than sci-fi.

 Grimtuff wrote:

Uptonius wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
"stop and smell the roses", which when looked at dumbfounded by Saqquara insists on telling him the origins of the phrase as roses have been extinct for quite some time...

Wrong. There is a region of the galaxy that has a large dust cloud in the shape of a rose. The cloud is home to a system with a planet in the shape of a rose. The planet is covered from pole to pole in roses. It's in the first Black Library publication.
Order of the Sacred Rose.
Order of the Bloody Rose.
There are roses in Celestines hands (old model) and currently there is a platter of roses with petals being cast on the Triumph of Saint Katherine model.
Beiltan craftworld also uses rose thorns in their iconography.

That's nice, but Fabius was referring to roses that originate on Earth in that scene.

No different to the Minister for the 19th Century Jacob Rees-Mogg trotting out pointless Latin phrases in interviews, to make sure us proles know our place and that it’s high time our forelocks were tugged in deference again.

What a weird insertion of politics into the thread...

 Grimtuff wrote:

Uptonius wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
"stop and smell the roses", which when looked at dumbfounded by Saqquara insists on telling him the origins of the phrase as roses have been extinct for quite some time...

Wrong. There is a region of the galaxy that has a large dust cloud in the shape of a rose. The cloud is home to a system with a planet in the shape of a rose. The planet is covered from pole to pole in roses. It's in the first Black Library publication.
Order of the Sacred Rose.
Order of the Bloody Rose.
There are roses in Celestines hands (old model) and currently there is a platter of roses with petals being cast on the Triumph of Saint Katherine model.
Beiltan craftworld also uses rose thorns in their iconography.

That's nice, but Fabius was referring to roses that originate on Earth in that scene.

So aren't all the examples I used. Fabius Bile has no idea what he's talking about. The author just didn't check with the BL editor. Thats all.

Except he would, given Fabius was a Terran recruit from a noble family. Hence he likely picked it up from there. So like Rees-Mogg spouting Latin nonsense, it’s a peculiar flex to remind us “just how much better I am”.

xerxeskingofking wrote:


Why is it unbelievable for a primaris marine who may never have heard of them, and basically was never in a position to ever learn of them, to ask about them?


not read the full book, so i can;t comment on the response he got or the full scene. would i be amiss to assume someone draws a parallel to between the thunder warriors and firstborn?

But weren't the first batch taken 10,000 years ago when the thunder warriors were renowned as the people who took Earth?

The_Real_Chris wrote:

xerxeskingofking wrote:


Why is it unbelievable for a primaris marine who may never have heard of them, and basically was never in a position to ever learn of them, to ask about them?


not read the full book, so i can;t comment on the response he got or the full scene. would i be amiss to assume someone draws a parallel to between the thunder warriors and firstborn?

But weren't the first batch taken 10,000 years ago when the thunder warriors were renowned as the people who took Earth?

Some are former Legionnaires, sure. But it might also be the Primaris picking up on concerns of Firstborn, informed by Chapter Legends and that.

I’ve not read the book myself, so can’t confirm the context. So the above is solely conjecture and I may well be talking mince.

Not sure what book the OPs quote is from but Cawl's first batch were not all from just after the Heresy but rather the entire span between the Scouring and the Gathering Storm. A main character in one of the Dawn of Fire books has an Imperial Fist who was a trainee priest that then became a Black Templar.
A lot of that batch also got munched in the opening salvos of the Indomitus Crusade. By the time of the end of the Plague Wars and Vigilus campaign a good chunk of the Primaris are either new recruits or upgraded Firstborn.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Any time Nectons feature, and the Cryptek/second in command/rival dynast is plotting to overthrow the lead noble.
...which is practically EVERY NECRON PLOT nowadays.

Damn you Starscream!