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Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




So the basic Lasrifle shoots hot enough lasers to cut holes though most things, if not damage it. So how hot is a Lascannon?

Is it hotter than a Plasma rifle/pistol?

Are they both hotter than a Melta/fusion/purgation pistol/rifle?

What if we step it up? Is an inferno cannon hotter than a Nova Cannon, or a Plasma Cannon?

What about a Plasma Annihilator, the sun fury whatever mounted on the big stompy boys of the Admech. What about the Turbo Laser Destructor? Or a Shadowsword's Cannon?

I kinda feel from the way they talk about in books, the Sun Fury Plasma gun thing is as hot as a mini sun, so that has to be near the top. But the Ordinatus has a cannon that is orders of magnitude stronger.

What about ship based laser batteries?

What is the hottest weapon by temperature in the 40k universe?
   
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A garden grove on Citadel Station

If we are going all the way up to ship weapons, might as well say Nova Cannons?

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 ph34r wrote:
If we are going all the way up to ship weapons, might as well say Nova Cannons?


Most powerful yes, but I don't know for hottest.

Wait, I forgot a few.

Magma Cannons
Hot Shot Las
Inferno Cannon
Melta Cannon
Magna Blaze Cannon
   
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The Shire(s)

Hmm. Difficult question to answer, because what is hottest? Some smaller weapons may temporarily create a higher heat in a very small space compared to warship weapons, but the latter obviously produce more energy overall.

I suspect the highest point-energy is likely to be produced by battleship-grade lances at point-blank range (where the beam is less diffuse). There are different kinds of lance that we know little about (lasers, "fusion-lances" etc) but they appear to be broadly equivalent in target effect.

Nova cannon are immensely powerful, but seem to be more diffuse, so the centre of a nova shell exploding may not be as hot. Or it may be, seeing as it is some kind of nuclear weapon IIRC.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
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As I understand it, Nova Cannons are to Lascannons what Lascannons are to Laspistols, correct? Just a gonzo version of the idea, multiplied by 40k? Or are they giant plasma cannons? Helsreach makes the ordinatus carrying one sound like a rail gun of sorts. It shoots across the planet, and blows the gargant away.

It's a Goku Kamehameha!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/01/25 11:12:01


 
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
As I understand it, Nova Cannons are to Lascannons what Lascannons are to Laspistols, correct?

No, the Nova Cannon is basically a huge gravitic railgun:
The Nova Cannon is one of the most exceptionally powerful starship weapons employed by the military forces of the Imperium of Man. They fire massive, gravitically-impelled warheads that can unleash fleet-consuming plasma explosions, gravitational disruptions or even Warp rifts.

source

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The Shire(s)

Yes, nova cannons are grav rail guns.

Lances (well, laser lances) are akin to collossal lascannon.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
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In terms of largest in class:

Melta weapons - presumably whatever industrial equipment the admech used to 'flatten off' the side of a planet so that the assembled marines didn't need to worry about a horizon when lining up to gaze upon the Emperor. Offhand I cannot think of any instances of oversized melta weapons beyond those used in macrobatteries.

Laser weapons - starship voidsunder lances are the largest 'lance' type weapon mentioned by name. Technically the largest ground-based defense lasers could be more powerful but nothing specific jumps to mind

Plasma weapons - come in two variations - regular plasma and phased plasma. The regular plasma weapons are often described as more devastating (as much due to volume as anything else). Again large starship broadside weapons (hecutor by FFG rules) are at the top end but not much in the wave of huge single-weapons unless you count the explosive torpedoes and nova cannon shells.


In terms of raw heat on a single spot at any given moment, potentially the big lances just out of raw focus of the energy.

Though there are a number of exotic weapons such as matter-energy conversion weapons, temporal anomoly generators, any number of dark age of technology devices that cause damage by giving the middle finger to the laws of physics, and of course powerful psykers who can do much the same.
   
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A.T. wrote:
In terms of largest in class:

Melta weapons - presumably whatever industrial equipment the admech used to 'flatten off' the side of a planet so that the assembled marines didn't need to worry about a horizon when lining up to gaze upon the Emperor. Offhand I cannot think of any instances of oversized melta weapons beyond those used in macrobatteries.

Laser weapons - starship voidsunder lances are the largest 'lance' type weapon mentioned by name. Technically the largest ground-based defense lasers could be more powerful but nothing specific jumps to mind

Plasma weapons - come in two variations - regular plasma and phased plasma. The regular plasma weapons are often described as more devastating (as much due to volume as anything else). Again large starship broadside weapons (hecutor by FFG rules) are at the top end but not much in the wave of huge single-weapons unless you count the explosive torpedoes and nova cannon shells.


In terms of raw heat on a single spot at any given moment, potentially the big lances just out of raw focus of the energy.

Though there are a number of exotic weapons such as matter-energy conversion weapons, temporal anomoly generators, any number of dark age of technology devices that cause damage by giving the middle finger to the laws of physics, and of course powerful psykers who can do much the same.


Going by the technical definition, that one Black Hole gun from the Priests of Mars series is probably the 'hottest' gun in the Imperial Armoury, and also in the material universe
   
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Tsagualsa wrote:
Going by the technical definition, that one Black Hole gun from the Priests of Mars series is probably the 'hottest' gun in the Imperial Armoury, and also in the material universe
If you are thinking about the weapon on the 'Speranza', IIRC the black hole was more of a side effect of generating the temporal distortion wave.

Which for those that haven't read the book, pushes matter a fraction of a second back in time so that it comes into contact with itself, creating a rather explosive temporal paradox hundreds of kilometres across.

The Imperium doesn't hold back on the big guns when it comes to spacecraft - https://youtu.be/4DtJFUPOApM?t=115
   
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 Gert wrote:
Sanguinius' abs.


You could fry an Egg on those things.

So if Nova Cannons don't actually generate heat per-say, I guess the Sunfury plasma annihilators take it? Those technically exist in the Imperial Armory...Whereas Nova cannons don't.They are either navy, astartes, or extremely rare Daok Tech guarded by the highest levels, ala Ordinatus.
   
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The Shire(s)

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
 Gert wrote:
Sanguinius' abs.


You could fry an Egg on those things.

So if Nova Cannons don't actually generate heat per-say, I guess the Sunfury plasma annihilators take it? Those technically exist in the Imperial Armory...Whereas Nova cannons don't.They are either navy, astartes, or extremely rare Daok Tech guarded by the highest levels, ala Ordinatus.

Nova cannon do generate heat, but they primarily do it via a massive plasma charge.

...what are you counting as Imperial? The Imperial Navy is definitely as Imperial as the Collegia Titanica using the Sunfury.

Eh, it is impossible to say if the giant plasma weapons on warship broadsides and titans are hotter than the beams of lances and defense lasers.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
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Erm…anything Plasma, I guess.

Each Plasma shot is often described/compared to a diminutive sun. Hot enough to turn anything it strikes into Plasma (super heated gas). Which when hitting something solid is quite the achievement.

Melta however may be more focussed and/or sustained, hence the arguably lower temperature is offset by the consistency of exposure to said heat.

Of course, in the same vein as the Monk’s of Cool? The hottest weapons are always those carried by Fulgrim.

   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Each Plasma shot is often described/compared to a diminutive sun.
It's all relative.

The plasma created by nuclear fusion (deuterium-tritium) is in the 100-150 million degrees C range - 10 times hotter than the center of the sun. Melta weapons work in this way by creating and then expelling the plasma created by a small fusion reaction, whereas plasma weapons contain and lob the plasma the weapon generates.

Lasers don't exactly have a 'temperature' so much as they impart energy to the surface they strike. In 40k scales think all of the energy of a nuke being applied directly and entirely to a small target area, over and over and over again - which in turn will heat up that target area.
   
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I mean, the Volcano cannon is strong enough to punch through void-shields (Lore based, not stat based) so it's basically that is at least as powerful as it gets, again, based off lore. Plasma is not been shown to be capable of dropping void shields in a single charge? I have not read any of the DaoT books, where stuff like that may happen?
   
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But you can’t punch through void shields? You can hit them with enough energy to overload the generator, but until you do they’re shunting the energy received into the warp.

The only weapons I’m aware of able to collapse multiple shields are the Squat Cyclops (as it’s a sustained weapon, rather than a single blast) and the Gargant Belly Gun Clanger shot (bowling for Titans, essentially)

   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I mean, the Volcano cannon is strong enough to punch through void-shields (Lore based, not stat based) so it's basically that is at least as powerful as it gets, again, based off lore. Plasma is not been shown to be capable of dropping void shields in a single charge? I have not read any of the DaoT books, where stuff like that may happen?
Something like an Emperor-class titans plasma annihilator will drop void shields.

But not all void shields are equal, firing a plasma annihilator at a grand cruiser won't do a thing whereas a grand cruser scoring a direct hit with its main battery will annihilate a void-shielded titan (and the city it is standing in).
   
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Again that’s more down to the capacity of the generator than the shield generated.

In theory, with sufficient cooling and power, a Void Shield Generator would never overload, as it’s the strain the shield is put under which overloads it. Hence why many smaller strikes, well coordinated, can force a shutdown as well as singular powerful blows.

   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Again that’s more down to the capacity of the generator than the shield generated.

In theory, with sufficient cooling and power, a Void Shield Generator would never overload, as it’s the strain the shield is put under which overloads it. Hence why many smaller strikes, well coordinated, can force a shutdown as well as singular powerful blows.


It is sustained firepower of great enough magnitude that overloads a shield. In the process of going down though the void shield negates the hit, however powerful. Void shields are described as warp based, with much of the energy of a hit being thrown into the warp. That is why short duration high intensity hits like Titan Volcano Cannons are finisher weapons and not good against a fully shielded Titan.

If the weapon is sustained and focused on the Titan, then multiple shields can be knocked down one after another. That is what the old Epic Squat Cyclops's cannon did, and why in animation like the Horus Heresy one, a Titan seems to go down to an orbital lance bombardment. The starship lance focused on the Titan and in game terms kept up a series of hits that knocked down all the shields one after another, though for dramatic license the animation showed the Titan as just being destroyed almost instantly. Similarly in background lore, there is at least one example of a fully shielded Imperial battleship being destroyed almost instantly by a massive plasma explosion from a refinery facility. Though technically its shields would have needed to be overloaded one after another, the plasma blast was massive and sustained enough to do it so quickly it seemed instantaneous.
   
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Kinda odd Voltkite weaponry hasn't been mentioned yet. A heatray that literally makes you combust. Surely the heat on that thing would have to be high.
   
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I doubt that Orks were capable of creating weapons of sufficient enough technological might as to completely overwhelm the void shields of the Imperator titan on Helsreach, but it happened, twice if I recall. The first time just knocked it down. The second time it completely destroyed the titan. It was the belly gun if I recall? So orcs are capable of creating lance batteries?
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I doubt that Orks were capable of creating weapons of sufficient enough technological might as to completely overwhelm the void shields of the Imperator titan on Helsreach, but it happened, twice if I recall. The first time just knocked it down. The second time it completely destroyed the titan. It was the belly gun if I recall? So orcs are capable of creating lance batteries?


Ork Mega Gargants had a Deth Ray that in Epic Titan Legions ignored void shields entirely and just passed straight through, though the shot itself was not that powerful and could still be potentially stopped by the Titan armor.

In BFG, Ork ships did not have lance batteries. However a salvaged Gothic cruiser had its broadside lances stripped and the Orks attempted to combine them into two large frontal lance weapons for the now renamed Slamblasta battleship equivalent, though the final result was 2 large lance weapons that were underpowered. In game terms, the Gothic had 4 30cm range lances on each broadside. The Orks combined them all to get 2 45cm range lances.
   
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Orks probably can create Lance weapons - but like Las weapons, they don’t favour them, as they don’t believe they’re loud enough to be proper weapons.

Going back to 2nd Ed Epic, Orks actually had a pretty decent time against opposing Titans with their own Gargants.

Typically, you’d use your Gatling Gun to strip the shields, then a Chain Shot from the belly gun. If all went well, the enemy Titan would fall over, wrecking it. Granted all going well was by no means guaranteed, but with just a modicum of good luck, you could drop Titans pretty easily, leaving gaping holes in your opponent’s battle plan.

And yes, the Mega Gargant had the Deth Ray. Not at all accurate (I think you had to roll for hit location twice?) but all you needed to do was hit the head and kill the crew. Unlikely in the grand scheme of things, but one hit, one kill against even an Imperator was always an appealing prospect.

In fact, I think I could argue the case that Orky Gargants of any stripe are the super Titan Class nasties out of Imperial, Chaos, Ork and Eldar?

   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Orks probably can create Lance weapons - but like Las weapons, they don’t favour them, as they don’t believe they’re loud enough to be proper weapons.

Going back to 2nd Ed Epic, Orks actually had a pretty decent time against opposing Titans with their own Gargants.

Typically, you’d use your Gatling Gun to strip the shields, then a Chain Shot from the belly gun. If all went well, the enemy Titan would fall over, wrecking it. Granted all going well was by no means guaranteed, but with just a modicum of good luck, you could drop Titans pretty easily, leaving gaping holes in your opponent’s battle plan.

And yes, the Mega Gargant had the Deth Ray. Not at all accurate (I think you had to roll for hit location twice?) but all you needed to do was hit the head and kill the crew. Unlikely in the grand scheme of things, but one hit, one kill against even an Imperator was always an appealing prospect.

In fact, I think I could argue the case that Orky Gargants of any stripe are the super Titan Class nasties out of Imperial, Chaos, Ork and Eldar?


Mega Gargant datacard

The Mega Gargant Deth Ray wasn't that inaccurate. It was just weak. Its stats were 100cm range 4+ to hit -1 armor save modifier. -1 ASM is an autocannon hit basically.

Given that the Mega Gargant could only fire a limited number of the more specialized "Mekboy" weapons per turn, it was a bit of a waste to use it for a single autocannon equivalent shot, even if it did ignore void shields (but not holo fields).

Ork Gargants in general had a different performance curve compared to Imperial and Eldar Titans. Unlike the others, Ork Gargants could not be destroyed in a single hit to a vulnerable location like the head or reactor, but would instead accumulate damage and fires that would degrade its performance. Eventually if the number of fires grew too great, the Gargant would burn or explode but even before that it might be a combat ineffective burning hulk.

The true terrors of the 2nd edition Epic and Titan Legions era for their class size IMO were Eldar Warlock Titans dual armed with Pulsars (each hitting on 2+ and inflicting d6 hits of -2 ASM) and 2 lascannon wings. Those things would shred void shields through sheer number of hits and anything unshielded would often sustain so many hits that they would fail armor saves. The Warlock power Witch Sight meant incoming shots had -1 to hit. The Eldar Titan profiles were also thin and spindly so shots could miss the hit template.


   
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Why do I have it in my head the Deth Ray was inaccurate. It’s come from somewhere, and I’m probably thinking of a different gun.

   
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In terms of orks blasting through shields, they have historically had quite a decent grasp of force field technology but little interest in heat-based weapons (not enough 'bang') - with the exception of various kustom shootas which do branch out into plasma weapons.


Iracundus wrote:
The true terrors of the 2nd edition Epic and Titan Legions era for their class size IMO were Eldar Warlock Titans dual armed with Pulsars
They were vulnerable to certain types of blast weapons though (a salvo of basilisk fire would blow the wings right off them).

The titans you had to watch for were the customised warlord battle group - three full battle titans (usually with paired off plasma weapons and firing platforms) and 30 bases of terminators with a crazy cost discount.
Their only weakness was that 2nd ed epic games could start and finish before the end of the first turn and they didn't have the same immediate game ending punch. Well that and just about no-one had the right parts to build them back in the age of random weapon blister packs... (they looked pretty silly with all those corvus pods too).
   
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 Gert wrote:
Sanguinius' abs.


The boltgun carried by that Sister of Battle who looks like Debbie Harry in bondage gear. You know the one, cover of the old codex.

Quite literally smokin'.

Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory.

Do you like Star Wars but find the prequels and sequels disappointing?  Man of Destiny is the book series for you.

My 2nd edition Warhammer 40k resource page. Check out my other stuff at https://www.ahlloyd.com 
   
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How about Dante's man lust for the man servent he wants to "drain" but forbids himself. I swear, the BAs are just one big allegory for Top Gun. Which is just another allegory.
   
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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
How about Dante's man lust for the man servent he wants to "drain" but forbids himself. I swear, the BAs are just one big allegory for Top Gun. Which is just another allegory.


Um, the whole inspiration for the Dark Angels chapter is "the love that dare not speak its name."

Homo-eroticism suppressed by a smothering layer of Catholic guilt. Though now we're digressing a bit from the "hotness" thing.

I always hated the "plasma gets hot" rule. Any weapon that killed its user with the regularity of Russian roulette would have been either pulled from service or lost on the battlefield with alarming regularity.

Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory.

Do you like Star Wars but find the prequels and sequels disappointing?  Man of Destiny is the book series for you.

My 2nd edition Warhammer 40k resource page. Check out my other stuff at https://www.ahlloyd.com 
   
 
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