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Made in fi
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Helsinki, Finland

Hello, I've recently bought 3d printer and I'm building a krieg army, for a competitive games.

Astra militarum Arks of omen (cult of sacrifice)

-hq- tank commander (vanquisher, lascannon, veteran commandeer: elite sharpshooters) 185 (warlord: old grudges, relic: kurov's aquila)
-hq- platoon command (astropath, mortar, banner, vox) 115 (relic: autoreliquary of tyberius)
-hq- platoon command (mortar, banner, vox) 75
-hq- platoon command (mortar, banner, vox) 75

-troop- infantry squad (missile, plasma, vox) 65
-troop- infantry squad (missile, plasma, vox) 65
-troop- infantry squad (missile, plasma, vox) 65
-troop- infantry squad (missile, plasma, vox) 65
-troop- infantry squad (missile, plasma, vox) 65
-troop- infantry squad (missile, plasma, vox) 65

-elite- scions (5, plasma, melta, vox) 55
-elite- scions (5, plasma, melta, vox) 55

-fast- rough riders (5) 100

-heavy- field ordnance (2x bombast) 130
-heavy- field ordnance (2x bombast) 130
-heavy- field ordnance (2x bombast) 130
-heavy- deathstrike 160
-heavy- deathstrike 160
-heavy- earthshaker battery (2) 240

Total 2000 / 3cp at start

Secondaries;
- by lasgun and bayonet
- inflexible command
- engage on all fronts

All feedback is welcome, as I'm also considering this list as a backup for tournament.

https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/
Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500) 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Cool concept I assume this is the Krieg: cult of sacrifice version.

My first impressions are, the double deathstrikes don't seem better than a second russ or second earthshaker.

And also I feel you have too many cmd squads even considering inflexible command. And then I feel your missing a strong centerfield unit to push back with. With these in mind heres some ideas..


I would drop 1 cmd squad and the second deathstrike.

I would also say drop the rough riders too but these are probably keeping with the theme so i'll leave them alone for now.


With those points I would suggest a ogryn bodyguard and consider adding a power fist. Now this is a serious unit that can be front and center which opens up some nice real scoring options for you like boots on the ground and warp ritual or psychic interrogation. Basically turn this unit into an anchor and a scoring monster and its very good.

In this case I would recommend dread dog and death mask instead of the kurovs aquila on the tank commander. Another build I like is a regular ogryn and TARoT like you have now. Basically a points saver version.
So now you would have a forward cmd and a backfield cmd to spread inflexible command around easier. If pts allow add master of ordnance since this build can push the 30" range out further. For the backfield squad I feel it would be worth the cp to add the finial.

The tank commander I would at least consider putting the WL trait onto one of the cmd squads. Covers less area but is much harder to remove. This might at least reduce the incentive to kill your deadliest model.

In place of the second deathstrike I would suggest swapping the vanquisher to HS and adding a second russ with gatekeeper as your tank commander. this will draw heat from one or the other and increase the value of your doctrine.

On troops I don't like the missiles they just don't do anything very well. I would consider shock troops here honestly but if you prefer the HWS then at least mix in las and hvy bolters. Unfortunate DKoK don't fit in their namesake list very well. If you went all las for example then the finial becomes more powered up against some really nasty threats to you.

Lastly the scions. Not sure I see a reason for these besides a nod to engage on all fronts. Personally I see this as a bad secondary in this particular list. If thats the case and I'm not missing something I think at least one of these is expendable.

haven't done the math but if there are any points remaining a field marshal is really good value now for 35 pts.

Anyway just some friendly ideas.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2023/01/29 16:12:36


 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




Unfortunately the indirect fire penalty kills this list. Your only real offensive threats are all crippled and you have to spend more points on buff support just to offset the penalty. Artillery is a tool in the tool box, not the core of a list, and you should never have more than one, maybe two units at most, of big guns or 3x mortar HWS. A 150 point investment in a situational tool is ok, building your list around it is a recipe for failure and a conventional LRBT list is going to be far more powerful.

Also, Cult of Sacrifice is an extremely weak doctrine choice and you should have a second doctrine.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/01 12:28:48


 
   
Made in fi
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Helsinki, Finland

dominuschao wrote:
Cool concept I assume this is the Krieg: cult of sacrifice version.

My first impressions are, the double deathstrikes don't seem better than a second russ or second earthshaker.

And also I feel you have too many cmd squads even considering inflexible command. And then I feel your missing a strong centerfield unit to push back with. With these in mind heres some ideas..


I would drop 1 cmd squad and the second deathstrike.

I would also say drop the rough riders too but these are probably keeping with the theme so i'll leave them alone for now.


With those points I would suggest a ogryn bodyguard and consider adding a power fist. Now this is a serious unit that can be front and center which opens up some nice real scoring options for you like boots on the ground and warp ritual or psychic interrogation. Basically turn this unit into an anchor and a scoring monster and its very good.

In this case I would recommend dread dog and death mask instead of the kurovs aquila on the tank commander. Another build I like is a regular ogryn and TARoT like you have now. Basically a points saver version.
So now you would have a forward cmd and a backfield cmd to spread inflexible command around easier. If pts allow add master of ordnance since this build can push the 30" range out further. For the backfield squad I feel it would be worth the cp to add the finial.

The tank commander I would at least consider putting the WL trait onto one of the cmd squads. Covers less area but is much harder to remove. This might at least reduce the incentive to kill your deadliest model.

In place of the second deathstrike I would suggest swapping the vanquisher to HS and adding a second russ with gatekeeper as your tank commander. this will draw heat from one or the other and increase the value of your doctrine.

On troops I don't like the missiles they just don't do anything very well. I would consider shock troops here honestly but if you prefer the HWS then at least mix in las and hvy bolters. Unfortunate DKoK don't fit in their namesake list very well. If you went all las for example then the finial becomes more powered up against some really nasty threats to you.

Lastly the scions. Not sure I see a reason for these besides a nod to engage on all fronts. Personally I see this as a bad secondary in this particular list. If thats the case and I'm not missing something I think at least one of these is expendable.

haven't done the math but if there are any points remaining a field marshal is really good value now for 35 pts.

Anyway just some friendly ideas.



Hey, thanks for the reply, I'm not entirely sure how the new cult of sacrifice works, I've only heard rumours that it would be all-consuming choise. I understand that Leman Russes are very good at the moment, but as you mentioned, I do have a theme in this list. As for the ogryn bodyguard, I dont think it's necessary, as command squads are character protected.
The other deathstrike could be dropped, however, some missions have 2 objectives in backfield, and deathstrikes are excellent at sitting back while denying opponents objectives.
The infantry squad load-out is just my preferration, missiles are the most universal weapon, capable for anti-tank and anti-horde shooting, while plasmagun is suited to take down elite infantry.
The scions are reactive unit, deep striking to counter opponent in the midfield. Their deployment is tricky, maintaining 24" range to officers, and having set up in other tablequarter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aecus Decimus wrote:
Unfortunately the indirect fire penalty kills this list. Your only real offensive threats are all crippled and you have to spend more points on buff support just to offset the penalty. Artillery is a tool in the tool box, not the core of a list, and you should never have more than one, maybe two units at most, of big guns or 3x mortar HWS. A 150 point investment in a situational tool is ok, building your list around it is a recipe for failure and a conventional LRBT list is going to be far more powerful.

Also, Cult of Sacrifice is an extremely weak doctrine choice and you should have a second doctrine.


Hey thanks for the reply, I understand that Leman Russes are more competitive now than artillery. The indirect fire means that the opponent cannot hide from it, and while it does have penalties, I think I've got plenty of officers to give 'take-aim'-orders. And it does not mean that they'd only fire indirect, most of the time you can fire directly.
If the cult of sacrifice allows another trait, I'd choose armoured superiority.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/01 13:29:13


 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




 Spreelock wrote:
missiles are the most universal weapon


Lascannons are the most universal weapon as they are good against a wide variety of targets, especially targets that your mass lasguns are weakest against. Missile launchers have two profiles, which is a very different thing. Both profiles are bad at their job so you end up with a weapon that has two different options for performing poorly and a choice that should never appear in a serious list.

The indirect fire means that the opponent cannot hide from it


They can't, but there are a limited number of spots on the table where a unit can be hidden from LRBTs without also being useless dead weight sitting in a back corner of the table where you can safely ignore it. That's why you take a minor investment in indirect fire, to deal with those cheap backfield objective campers, but don't invest your whole list in it.

And it does not mean that they'd only fire indirect, most of the time you can fire directly.


Which means that a LRBT would be doing the job better. And direct fire shots will be rare. The earthshaker carriages are immobile so they can't move up to get clear shots, and the FOBs are glass cannons that immediately die if they're visible.

If the cult of sacrifice allows another trait, I'd choose armoured superiority.


That's not a very good plan since you have few vehicles. Just drop cult of sacrifice entirely, it does almost nothing for this list. If your guns are getting destroyed to give you the +1 to hit you're probably going to lose the whole unit and get no benefit from your doctrine. Just take Born Soldiers instead.
   
Made in fi
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Helsinki, Finland

Hey, I've updated the list, thanks for all the advice.

Astra militarum Arks of omen (cult of sacrifice, armoured superiority)

-hq- lord solar leontus 170 (warlord: grand strategist)
-hq- platoon command (astropath, banner, vox,medipack, sniper) 115 (trait: old grudges, relic: finial of nemrodesh, power: psychic barrier)
-hq- tank commander (vanquisher, lascannon, 2x heavy bolter) 175
-hq- tank commander (vanquisher, lascannon, 2x heavy bolter) 175

-troops- infantry squad (missile, plasma, vox) 65
-troops- infantry squad (missile, plasma, vox) 65
-troops- infantry squad (missile, plasma, vox) 65
-troops- infantry squad (missile, plasma, vox) 65

-elite- scions (5, plasma, melta, vox) 55
-elite- scions (5, plasma, melta, vox) 55

-fast- rough riders (5) 100

-heavy- heavy weapons squad (3x lascannon) 55
-heavy- heavy weapons squad (3x mortar) 55
-heavy- heavy weapons squad (3x mortar) 55
-heavy- leman russ squadron (2, 2x executioner, 2x lascannon, 2x heavy bolter sponsons) 330
-heavy- deathstrike 160
-heavy- earthshaker battery (2) 240

Total 2000 / 3+1 cp at start

Secondaries;
- by lasgun and bayonet
- inflexible command
- ?

So, I've toned down artillery a bit, added some russes and lascannons. Also, I included the finial (I did reread the orders rules and found out that the same officer cannot use the same order twice, so no need for autoreliquary of tyberius).
The gatekeeper relic is good and tempting, but I'd like to keep atleast one vanquisher in the list.
Any suggestions on good Secondaries?

https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/
Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500) 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




Cult of Sacrifice is still useless, take something else.

Take Gatekeeper and Lead By Example on one of the TCs, it's a mandatory upgrade.

Take lascannons instead of missile launchers on the infantry, krak is just a bad lascannon and frag is terrible.

Dump the lascannon HWS or at least give it mortars. HWS are too fragile to use weapons that require them to be exposed to return fire, if they don't have mortars they shouldn't be in your list.

Secondaries should be Inflexible Command always (it's a near automatic 15 VP) and BotG and RBD in most games. Lasgun and Bayonet is a bad objective. It's almost impossible to get a decent score from it unless you're playing against a MSU list and tabling them, in which case you're already winning easily. You need objectives that can get a reliable 10-15 VP even when you're in a tightly contested game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/05 06:55:42


 
   
Made in fi
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Helsinki, Finland

Okay, so it'll be mostly weapon changes, which are easy at this point, here's what I could do;
- I'd change the cult of sacrifice to elite sharpshooters
- the other tank commander takes the gatekeeper and lead by example trait
- infantry squads take lascannon instead of missile
- all heavy weapons squads take mortars

Probably don't need the third HWS, which could be dropped.
So, the Secondaries could be;
- boots on ground
- inflexible command
- retrieve data (maybe?)

https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/
Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500) 
   
Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

So you are 3d printing, and your aim is to be competitive too, is that correct? I think artillery just plain isn’t competitive but you can work off that theme if you want to.

ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau
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When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in fi
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Helsinki, Finland

Hi, yes that is correct. So far, I've printed 2x infantry squad, 4x missile team and 4x mortar team. That cost me 1kg of resin (which is 30€ roughly). If you're intrested in models, check out Redmakers, they have desingned the STL files.

https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/
Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500) 
   
Made in fi
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Helsinki, Finland

Hey guys, I've just made alternative list, based on new cadians and kasrkin, just messing around but i'd like to hear your thoughts on this;

Astra militarum Arks of omen (elite sharpshooters, armoured superiority)

-hq- lord solar leontus 170 (warlord: grand strategist)
-hq- tank commander (battlecannon, lascannon, 2x heavy bolter) 175 (trait: lead by example, relic: gatekeeper)
-hq- tank commander (vanquisher, lascannon, 2x heavy bolter) 175
-hq- platoon command (astropath, banner, vox, medic, sniper) 115 (trait: old grudges, relic: finial of nemrodesh, power: psychic barrier)

-troop- infantry squad (lascannon, plasmagun, vox) 65
-troop- infantry squad (lascannon, plasmagun, vox) 65
-troop- infantry squad (lascannon, plasmagun, vox) 65
-troop- infantry squad (lascannon, plasmagun, vox) 65
-troop- infantry squad (lascannon, plasmagun, vox) 65
-troop- infantry squad (lascannon, plasmagun, vox) 65

-elite- kasrkin (2x plasmagun, 2x meltagun, vox, sniper, meltamine) 100 (trait: swift as a wind, relic: barbicans key)
-elite- kasrkin (2x plasmagun, 2x meltagun, vox, sniper, meltamine) 100 (trait: mechanized infantry)

-fast- rough riders (5) 100

-heavy- deathstrike 160
-heavy- leman russ (executioner, lascannon, 2x heavy bolter) 165
-heavy- leman russ (executioner, lascannon, 2x heavy bolter) 165
-heavy- heavy weapons squad (3x mortar) 55
-heavy- heavy weapons squad (3x mortar) 55

-transport- taurox (2x autocannon, storm bolter) 75

Total 2000 / 1cp at start (from leontus)

Secondaries;
- inflexible command
- boots on the ground
- retrieve data

https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/
Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500) 
   
 
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