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So the time is almost upon us. I thought it might be fun to guess or see who can most accurately depict the how of the Lion returning.

This is just for fun and see is closest to the actual story when released.

What do we know so far?
Angron has returned and has just caused the psychic weapon to go boom.
Vashtorr by the point of the return will have seiged the rock and may or may not have found what he was looking for. (Possibly the Tuchulcha engine?)
Arks of Omen's are appearing and laying seige across the imperium.
Dante is Warden of the North and has increasing visions of Sanguinius and Sanguinor.

The Lion's wounds are fully healed and the watchers were at the time of Luther's escape keeping the Lion in statsis.

We also have the prophecy.

So this brings me to my story which feel free to agree/disagree.

Vashtorr and his forces are surprised at how well the Dark Angels could resist. It was a hard won battle. But what he did not expect was the reach of Azraels command as he summoned the entirety of the Dark Angels Legion. Successor chaptors included. Beseiging the rock was not just facing a single chapter. But almost like facing a legion of old.

But alas Vashtorr managed to find his way into the heart of the rock after a brutl battle with Azrael who although injured was knocked aside in the end.

Upon reaching the inner chambers to the Tuchulcha engine he finds nothing. Just emptiness. At least this is how is perceived to him. This is the power of the watchers at work. The watchers nullify the chaos beasts ability to see. Leading him in his own eyes to find nothing but emptiness.

Realising he cannot take what he desired a full retreat is ordered. A heavy cost to the dark angels. Azrael is found by his Deathwing Knights. Upon going through the motions of post battle recoveries Azrael is taken aside by the watchers. He follows them in silence and is taken to a chamber he knew not existed.

He is taken to the sleeping body of his father. There the Lion lies waiting. The watchers instruct a key is needed to turn off the stasis chamber. Inserting the sword of secrets the field deactivates and the Lion awakes.

Shooting awake the Lion lashes out towards Azrael before realising he is not Luther and is in fact wearing the green armour of his sons as he last saw during the battle upon Caliban. He goes to leave but is blocked by a watcher. Stepping back a moment and taking a breathe the Lion looks around the room and begins to realise he was in stasis. He asks Azrael to introduce himself.

Azrael in awe, updates the Lion of the events of the last 10,000 years. The return of Guilliman and attack of Vashtorr and of course their mission against the fallen and he hesitates but pushes through too, about the escape of Luther.

The Lion, proud of his sons loyalty to him asks Azrael to show him the rock and orders new armour to be created. It is now when Cypher emerges. Azrael launches a personal attack against Cypher and two battle for a few moments before the lion stops them. Recognising his sword. Uneasy moments are shared as Cypher returns the sword. and before anything further can happen the Lion gives Cypher an order unheard to by Azrael and he disspears.

The Lion then asks for Azrael to accompany him to meet his brother and Dante and get a full update for the events.

Guilliman surprised to realise he is not alone embraces his brother. All historic tension between the two is dissolved when Guilliman almost istantly asks his brother to be Warmaster.

Neither are the same as they were back in the Heresy. The Lion agree's as long as he can speak to the emporer first. Once this happens the Lion appears changed after speaking to his father. Begins to laucnh his counter attack against abaddon/Vashtorr and their forces.

This leads to a showdown between Vashtorr and the Lion. Vashtorr finds himself surprisingly outmatched, as though the Lion himself can change the odds of the battle to benefit his outcome.

Thus concludes the AoO arc and the new threat on the horizen starts at 10th ed.

Vashtorr and his forces are surprised at how well the Dark Angels could resist. It was a hard won battle. But what he did not expect was the reach of Azraels command as he summoned the entirety of the Dark Angels Legion. Successor chaptors included. Beseiging the rock was not just facing a single chapter. But almost like facing a legion of old.

So... a rehash of Devastation of Baal, where all the BA descendants go home and fight as a pseudo-legion?

Voss wrote:

Vashtorr and his forces are surprised at how well the Dark Angels could resist. It was a hard won battle. But what he did not expect was the reach of Azraels command as he summoned the entirety of the Dark Angels Legion. Successor chaptors included. Beseiging the rock was not just facing a single chapter. But almost like facing a legion of old.

So... a rehash of Devastation of Baal, where all the BA descendants go home and fight as a pseudo-legion?

Pretty much yeah, we know it can happen and we unlike Baal where they got together and voted Dante. In the Azrael book he already summoned all the successor chapter masters and they already stated they operate as one.

So its literally just a phone call to make it happen if rock was beseiged.

Removed.

 SeanDavid1991 wrote:

Dante is Warden of the North and has increasing visions of Sanguinius and Sanguinor.

That's how they're bringing Sanguinius back, not the Lion. All the Black Rage flies out of the Death Companies in some sort of homage to the Green Mile, and then the ones who haven't succumbed yet start chanting and floating, the black rage flies from them, it all flies around in some sort of Dragon Ball Z scene and coalesces on the Sanguinor and Sanguinius is reborn.

Oh I hope they never bring Sanguinius back...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oh I hope they never bring Sanguinius back...

They're going to bring SOMETHING back, and its going to be Sanguinius-esque. I've been pointing out the enmity between Guilliman and Lion for a while now, saying they need a third Primarch to play mediator between the two of them given the most recent history the two of them have had together, not necessarily their most recent history individually. Before I saw this, I was assuming Russ. But maybe they are going to recycle the Unremembered Empire almost directly. Anyway, that's neither here nor there. The point was BA are one of the big four, and each of the big four are going to get their centerpiece monster equivalent. Lion, Russ, Bobby G, Sanguini-esque. Maybe Cawl recreates him. Maybe its Magic. Maybe they keep things mysterious and the Sanguinor just gets deified with the spirt of Sanguinius himself and goes all Red Hulk, but the only way the Blood Angels don't get a Primarch-adjacent or Primarch-replacement Supreme Commander Monstrous Creature Centerpiece is if this design paradigm is scrapped and all the Primarchs go into hiding/The Eye/Hibernation again before it happens for the BA.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SeanDavid1991 wrote:


Pretty much yeah, we know it can happen and we unlike Baal where they got together and voted Dante. In the Azrael book he already summoned all the successor chapter masters and they already stated they operate as one.

So its literally just a phone call to make it happen if rock was beseiged.

Plot armor aside - Azrael as GM of the Dark Angels was already fluffed for some time as the Grand Grand Master of the successor chapters as well. On the vote for Dante, that was fairly pro-forma as Everyone And Their Sister voted for him to lead the Armageddon war - because he's older than Methuselah. (Please someone tell me they saw what I did there.)

Its going to be interesting to see what they do though - it feels like they've been working hard to flip the Traditional Enmity chapter lists i.e. Wolves vs TSons, UM vs Word Bearers, etc - they still put Khorneate demons on Baal, but will they do BA vs World Eaters? Or DA vs World Eaters? Or BA vs World Eaters and Khornate Demons?

He is taken to the sleeping body of his father. There the Lion lies waiting. The watchers instruct a key is needed to turn off the stasis chamber. Inserting the sword of secrets the field deactivates and the Lion awakes.

The Sword of Secrets is the key to Luther's Cell, the place where the Lion Sleeps is unreachable. Perhaps the Lion Sword carried by Cypher is necessary to get in which is what makes it unreachable. The Watcher takes Cypher to the chamber, who then unlocks the chamber, letting the Lion out. Cypher is still wearing Dark Angel Black armor, which is why he can tell the Lion he's needed up near the surface where Vashtorr is fighting, the Lion rushes off with the Lion Sword, and Cypher makes his escape. Each of the Primarchs (except maybe Magnus) released so far have keep an iconic weapon/wargear from their 30K days. Silence the Scythe, The Hand of Dominion, One can assume Angron has some newer improved Gorefather while Kharn has Gorechild. On the flip side, they usually don't take away wargear from other characters - Angron is not shown having two Chain Axes, so he didn't take Gorechild back - and wouldn't want to. He's not going to take back the Lion Helm as Azrael's new model still has it (though I suspect some sort of "There were actually two" conceits to explain why the one is so small compared to a Primarch's size. So maybe the Lion Sword is unlikely too, which leaves the Wolf Blade. But I still suspect some sort of shenanigans around Cypher, the Lion Sword, and then maintaining Cypher's ephemeral status quo as a quasi-loyal Fallen potentially turning the Fallen into Wulfen style outcasts because they've never been able to do the Fallen justice.

Being back Vulkan.

You then have a triumvate of Primarchs.

Guilliman is the Statesman. The one best placed to oversee the whole show.

El’Johnson is the Crusading Warror. The one best placed to Marshall forces and make serious inroads in crushing enemies.

Vulkan? He’s the conscience of the group. The one thinking about the Little People, the ones who all this is for the benefit of.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Being back Vulkan.

You then have a triumvate of Primarchs.

Guilliman is the Statesman. The one best placed to oversee the whole show.

El’Johnson is the Crusading Warror. The one best placed to Marshall forces and make serious inroads in crushing enemies.

Vulkan? He’s the conscience of the group. The one thinking about the Little People, the ones who all this is for the benefit of.

Vulkan isn't one of the Big Four - which we can actually call the Elite Eight (4 Loyalist, 4 Traitor). Every pound of fluff has to generate a pound of profit too. Don't get me wrong I'd love to see it. I'd like to see some sort of big LOW centerpiece for each legion that is Primarch-esque. One of the best I'd ever heard of was Ferrus Manus' extreme contingency plan of making a big Prime Dreadnaught he downloaded his consciousness to. And I hope this current model release paradigm lasts long enough to see that a reality. But I'm not even sure we'll see something for each of the Big Four on both sides. I've seen a Sanguinor Ascended Official (as in this is what GW's doing, not as in the rumor came from GW) rumor for the BA/Sanguinius approach, but they're still in a bind when it comes to Horus/Abby. I don't think they can go to the Fabius Clone well again - Though they do have the Cawl meddling with geneseed thing. They planted that idea way way back when for something.

While only a few of the Primarchs are Dead Dead, there are a few and there are only so many ways to resurrect them without turning into Primarch Hospital. The Black Rage actually being a psychic piece of Sanguinius instead of a psychic echo that finally was able to coalesce into the Sanguinor when all of Sanguinius's children were finally brought back to one place during the Devastation of Baal turning the Sanguinor into some sort of Sanguinius Reborn of some varying level of Sanguinius works from a fluff standpoint. As mentioned Horus needs a special approach, as does probably the Night Haunter. Most of the Loyalists are not dead, or can be resurrected with fluff. Manus and his Dread, Sanguinius and his psychic might, Dorn and They Only Found His Hand- the rest are just "missing".

Anyway, so we've got the loyalist big four back, the Traitor Big four - all of the Elite Eight, we probably need Cawl to make a new Horus and just reboot him instead of clone. That gets a Loyalist Horus. Not hard to imagine the Imperium overreacting and banishing him or trying to kill him which should make the Traitor flip easy. Though I hope they don't go that lazy, one of the compelling things about his fall was how insidious and "external" it was. People manipulated him into falling, whereas Perturabo's fall was more hubris and ego. The Night Haunter didn't want to live, he wanted to get killed by the Assassin to make him "right" so he might need the Cawl treatment at the same time. Ohhh, Maybe Curze could manipulate the New Horus into the same fall through the same insane visions? That would probably make Horus the last of the Elite Eight because I don't see adding one of the Big 10 before they have all the Elite Eight.

Its not a bad way to "advance" the story - they're already expert at maintaining a status quo while making major events look like they've changed something. Shift a few Tau settlements around so they're not concentrated in the Ultramar segmentum, create a pocket of worlds that can fall to an enternal night Chaos world creating an "urgency" behind retaking the worlds and a steady stream of Heretics etc for the Chaos forces.

All that said, the last round of rumors I saw:
that Sanguinor-ius Rumor
10th Ed will be Blood Angels vs Nids
The Lion comes back at the end of ninth with the last book of the AOO
Nids are going to get a super Swarm Lord (Probably their LOW Primarch-esque model)

would set it (mostly) all up nicely. The AOO gives Chaos a foothold in realspace allowing for more/more believableTraitor Guard/Heretics (Give people what they want, and they want Renegades and heretics/Traitor Guard for Chaos- potentially as a Stand Alone)

Breton wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Being back Vulkan.

You then have a triumvate of Primarchs.

Guilliman is the Statesman. The one best placed to oversee the whole show.

El’Johnson is the Crusading Warror. The one best placed to Marshall forces and make serious inroads in crushing enemies.

Vulkan? He’s the conscience of the group. The one thinking about the Little People, the ones who all this is for the benefit of.

Vulkan isn't one of the Big Four - which we can actually call the Elite Eight (4 Loyalist, 4 Traitor).

Wait, who are the Elite Four?

Loyalist Primarchs I always think of Guiliman, Vulkan, Dorne and Corax, while Traitor you can either go with the 4 god Legions (Magnus, Angron, Mortarian, and Fulgrim), or the most interesting ones (Alpharious, Fulgrim, Perterabo and Lorgar). And I'd think for any given person they will have a different mental list. If you factor in dead primarchs then replace Sanguinius with one of the loyalists and Horus with one of the traitors.


As for Johnson's return, I dunno. Would be funny if its revealed he has been up for awhile just watching gak go down and working through Azrael who is well aware of it. That or he just casually wakes up in a non emergency situation and goes "welp, I'm back, hi guys".

 SeanDavid1991 wrote:
Pretty much yeah, we know it can happen and we unlike Baal where they got together and voted Dante. In the Azrael book he already summoned all the successor chapter masters and they already stated they operate as one.

Which is kinda BS because in old fluff, full half of DA descendants already told DA where they can shove the whole unforgiven business or straight up forgotten it was ever a thing due to paranoid secrecy and the only dudes who knew being wiped out by accident. Pity GW is making the whole fanfiction spanking 'totes a legion' meme a thing, it seems.

And even in the half of DA descendants that did subscribe to the hunt and DA being effectively in control, it was always really tenuous, uncertain thing as the dozen or so dudes (who were effectively committing treason by this) who knew had to walk really thin line to not make the other 990 marines suspicious. So, more of a whispered suggestions, not orders. Sure, going to help DA when they were attacked would look better but at a time where every chapter is busy with FUBARs everywhere only the most local could effectively respond without looking really bad and/or abandoning war effort close to their home base.

Breton wrote:
Vulkan isn't one of the Big Four - which we can actually call the Elite Eight (4 Loyalist, 4 Traitor). Every pound of fluff has to generate a pound of profit too.

I really hope GW isn't deciding on the basis of who used to have a Codex, because out of these 4, you have one dead and three most boring, worst loyalist primarchs (who, as a bonus, have the worst fanbases among loyalist SM too). I wish they brought Khan or Corax first, but alas, despite having a massive glow up in HH (and being next to RG one of the few primarchs actually capable of sane thinking and tactics more complex than just charging in with a chainsword) neither seems to have any fans among the GW leadership, sooo...

GW have already embarked upon the quest to turn 40k into 30k 2 electric boogaloo.

It is only a matter of time. It could be 20 years, but eventually, we will have all the primarchs in plastic 40k.

OP's story is solid, I could see it happening.

Breton wrote:

Anyway, so we've got the loyalist big four back, the Traitor Big four - all of the Elite Eight, we probably need Cawl to make a new Horus and just reboot him instead of clone. That gets a Loyalist Horus. Not hard to imagine the Imperium overreacting and banishing him or trying to kill him which should make the Traitor flip easy. Though I hope they don't go that lazy, one of the compelling things about his fall was how insidious and "external" it was. People manipulated him into falling, whereas Perturabo's fall was more hubris and ego. The Night Haunter didn't want to live, he wanted to get killed by the Assassin to make him "right" so he might need the Cawl treatment at the same time. Ohhh, Maybe Curze could manipulate the New Horus into the same fall through the same insane visions? That would probably make Horus the last of the Elite Eight because I don't see adding one of the Big 10 before they have all the Elite Eight.

Its not a bad way to "advance" the story - they're already expert at maintaining a status quo while making major events look like they've changed something. Shift a few Tau settlements around so they're not concentrated in the Ultramar segmentum, create a pocket of worlds that can fall to an enternal night Chaos world creating an "urgency" behind retaking the worlds and a steady stream of Heretics etc for the Chaos forces.

At that point, you need to go full hog and rebrand them - have the Primarchs wear masks and spandex suits. Rename them to stuff like 'Captain Caliban' or 'Berzerkhorne'. Give them wacky sidekicks and gear: Dornmobile. Ultrama-Lad. The Russarang. Have Cawl frequently and repeatedly explain how their powers come from 'Delta rays' and are 'over 9000'. Have them fight stuff like 'The Chaos Combine' or 'The Exemplars of Eldar Evil'. Produce Primarch-branded cereals with easy to swallow small parts made of toxic resin. Have a Saturday morning live-action show with too many episodes and a budget of 6 dollars. Sanguinius is played by Lynda Carter.

drbored wrote:
GW have already embarked upon the quest to turn 40k into 30k 2 electric boogaloo.

It is only a matter of time. It could be 20 years, but eventually, we will have all the primarchs in plastic 40k.

OP's story is solid, I could see it happening.

This is why I wrote it way I did. It's not what I'd like to happen. I've written what I think workshop may do.

Hopefully, he doesn't.

I don't want 40k to move even closer to being Horus Heresy 2.0 with a big focus on Primarchs who are in pretty much their own tier level becoming effectively the main characters of 40k. One Primarch was already a monumental change to the setting that set a new Status Quo. Changing the big core aspects of 40k shouldn't become such a regular thing that on a whim every couple of years it all gets changed yet again, and within the setting the return of Primarch feels like it should be a once in a Millenia event at the least, so within the period of a hundred years or however long the Indomitus era covers having several back would just be absurd.

40k shouldn't be changed into a becoming the story of Primarchs, that's what the Horus Heresy was for.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Hopefully, he doesn't.

40k shouldn't be changed into a becoming the story of Primarchs, that's what the Horus Heresy was for.

He is going to return. Soon as well that isn't in doubt. It's all but confirmed by GW themselves.

Each army is getting a Lord of War equivelent. Necrons have silent King. Mortarion, Magnus, Angron. I forget if Abaddon is a Lord of War?

But each army is getting one. The next one is the Lion. It's nota matter of if/when, it's a matter of how?

 SeanDavid1991 wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Hopefully, he doesn't.

40k shouldn't be changed into a becoming the story of Primarchs, that's what the Horus Heresy was for.

He is going to return. Soon as well that isn't in doubt. It's all but confirmed by GW themselves.

Each army is getting a Lord of War equivelent. Necrons have silent King. Mortarion, Magnus, Angron. I forget if Abaddon is a Lord of War?

But each army is getting one. The next one is the Lion. It's nota matter of if/when, it's a matter of how?

So far there has been nothing from GW to hint at his return. It's just a rumour.

Well one of the book is called Lion. But in general by the time GW starts "hinting" at stuff everyone who has been online within the last 3 months already knows it or has seen the leaks.

 kurhanik wrote:

Wait, who are the Elite Four?

Loyalist Primarchs I always think of Guiliman, Vulkan, Dorne and Corax, while Traitor you can either go with the 4 god Legions (Magnus, Angron, Mortarian, and Fulgrim), or the most interesting ones (Alpharious, Fulgrim, Perterabo and Lorgar). And I'd think for any given person they will have a different mental list. If you factor in dead primarchs then replace Sanguinius with one of the loyalists and Horus with one of the traitors.

Pretty sure they're referring to the primarchs whose first founding chapters have their own books. So Russ, Sanguinius, Johnson, and Guilliman (because UM are the "default" faction that the SM Codex usually represents the best.)

EDIT: I know very little of the Lion's lore. Can someone who actually likes him and his faction tell me what the appeal of bringing him back is? The whole, "our chapter has a shady past" thing has seemed like kind of a non-issue to me given that basically every chapter ever has had some marines go rogue. Plus, we've seen with the Fists (during the War of the Beast) and the Wolves (during their conflict with the inquisition) that the high lords don't like letting the first foundings look bad for PR reasons; so it seems unlikely that they'd send a fleet to wipe out the chapter or something.

Karol wrote:
Well one of the book is called Lion. But in general by the time GW starts "hinting" at stuff everyone who has been online within the last 3 months already knows it or has seen the leaks.

One of the books is rumoured to be called Lion.

They've given plenty of hints of the events that are going to occur during the Arks of Omen event, both with the initial prophecy and the Tarot Cards. So far, there's not been anything that properly suggests it, even with the next books Tarot Cards hints that are all about the Dark Angels.

Haven't all the Tarot things been Farsight recently? Like explicitly so with the Enclave icon and the Dawnblade?
There's the stuff with Vashtorr fighting the Dark Angels but that's cos Azrael is getting a new model.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

 kurhanik wrote:

Wait, who are the Elite Four?

Loyalist Primarchs I always think of Guiliman, Vulkan, Dorne and Corax, while Traitor you can either go with the 4 god Legions (Magnus, Angron, Mortarian, and Fulgrim), or the most interesting ones (Alpharious, Fulgrim, Perterabo and Lorgar). And I'd think for any given person they will have a different mental list. If you factor in dead primarchs then replace Sanguinius with one of the loyalists and Horus with one of the traitors.

EDIT: I know very little of the Lion's lore. Can someone who actually likes him and his faction tell me what the appeal of bringing him back is? The whole, "our chapter has a shady past" thing has seemed like kind of a non-issue to me given that basically every chapter ever has had some marines go rogue. Plus, we've seen with the Fists (during the War of the Beast) and the Wolves (during their conflict with the inquisition) that the high lords don't like letting the first foundings look bad for PR reasons; so it seems unlikely that they'd send a fleet to wipe out the chapter or something.

I'm a DA fan, my intro army. Ive never been too bought in by hunt for fallen. Yeah it's cool but never been my main wow. I like all the knightly order stuff. The Lion is prime this. People like to hate the Lion calling him autistic etc etc.

But he is loyal without waver. A demon once possessed his mind during Heresy and just went "Nah, nothing I can do can convict you to go against your dad I'm not even gunna try"

But in lore the fallen is more it was half their legion that turned. That's the "shame" if you will. They once figured out a black templar ship had a rumoured fallen captured DA turned up and asked for them to be handed over. Templars essentially said, "no. Why do you want him so bad?"... The Dark Angels came away and that Black templar ship was never heard from again.

But the Lion is shrouded in mystery as to how his abilities work. Like how he beat curze. He adapted him fighting style to beat curzes future sight. Is that just his skill? or does he have some innate ability. He was noticed looking and following warp streams, normally only visible to psykers. There is lots he could add to the setting and be explored.

IMO

 Gert wrote:
Haven't all the Tarot things been Farsight recently? Like explicitly so with the Enclave icon and the Dawnblade?
There's the stuff with Vashtorr fighting the Dark Angels but that's cos Azrael is getting a new model.

The Tarot cards are grouped into sets of 4 and each set of 4 gives an overview of the main elements of the corresponding book.

The current set is Farsights for book 4, but the set before that was for the next book which is about the Dark Angels and the Rock - the cards for it didn't hint towards the huge event of the Lion returning. We'll start to find out next week what book 5 is about though as that one is supposedly about the Lion.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
EDIT: I know very little of the Lion's lore. Can someone who actually likes him and his faction tell me what the appeal of bringing him back is? The whole, "our chapter has a shady past" thing has seemed like kind of a non-issue to me given that basically every chapter ever has had some marines go rogue. Plus, we've seen with the Fists (during the War of the Beast) and the Wolves (during their conflict with the inquisition) that the high lords don't like letting the first foundings look bad for PR reasons; so it seems unlikely that they'd send a fleet to wipe out the chapter or something.

- There have been seeds planted since 2nd edition that put the Lion as one of only two living Loyalist Primarchs that the audience explicitly knew the location of, even if the characters within the game world didn't (the other being Guilliman "healing" within a stasis field). I'm pretty sure even then he was said to be asleep, but uninjured, and just waiting for some undetermined trigger to return to the setting.
- We know he has a history including some conflict with Guilliman from the Heresy - this could potentially lead to conflict between the brothers on the modern stage, though given the Lion disappeared during the Scouring while Guilliman was around for a while afterwards to implement reforms, their positions on such incidents would have a different amount of time elapsed since for each of them.
- Given the Lion was removed from the stage when Caliban went BOOM! and Dwayne Johnson was formed, we don't know what his position will be regarding the Fallen, and we certainly have no clue what his opinion of the actions of his men in the 10k years since will be. Again, this is another potentially interesting conflict, this time between a loyalist Primarch and his Legion.
- Given the timing of when the Lion went to sleep, he's had even less sight of the evolution of the Emperor's Imperium, so won't have seen anything about the rise of the Church or (probably) the founding of the Inquisition. How's he going to react to those two institutions, compared to the Imperial Truth? Again, this contrasts to Guilliman, who at least had some sight of the early days of each. I also pity the first Inquisitor that tries to make the Lion do something, I really do...
- Waking the Lion from his cat-nap has the potential to allow resolution/progression of Cypher's storyline. I say potential, as at this point I'm not 100% convinced Cypher knows what Cypher is meant to be doing...
- Bring the Lion back also gives an incentive to do something with Luther (now he's escaped), that Daemon Prince whose name escapes me, and the remaining Fallen as a whole. Ideally this might mean a model for the former, and rules for the other two that make them actually usable...

 Wyldhunt wrote:
EDIT: I know very little of the Lion's lore. Can someone who actually likes him and his faction tell me what the appeal of bringing him back is? The whole, "our chapter has a shady past" thing has seemed like kind of a non-issue to me given that basically every chapter ever has had some marines go rogue. Plus, we've seen with the Fists (during the War of the Beast) and the Wolves (during their conflict with the inquisition) that the high lords don't like letting the first foundings look bad for PR reasons; so it seems unlikely that they'd send a fleet to wipe out the chapter or something.