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Back when the Kickstarter ran, 3D printers were not to up to the level to detail at a cost that made sense from a production standpoint... That has since changed.

link to Ebay listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/234898641332

A note to my customers, new and old. ~

Selling 3D prints is new for DreamForge-Games


Why 3D printing?


Before producing injection molded plastic kits, I used to make and sell resin reproductions in the traditional silicone rubber tooling, but advancements in 3D printers and the reduction in resin costs have made this means of production viable, and provide a result that, in my opinion, exceeds traditional resin kits. My photography skills are limited, but I have included two macro shots, to show the surface quality, just a few years back I could not achieve this quality at a price that would have been feasible for production.


Furthermore, without the large gate and vents to clean up and with judicious use and placement of supports, I can produce a kit that can go directly from cleanup and curing to painting, without the time spent grinding away vents or de-greasing the pored resin so you can paint it.


The cost in time and money is still more prohibitive than pored resin, the cost of consumables such as the vat film, the Isopropyl alcohol, the screen replacement, and the higher resin costs, but it is still manageable.


This kit requires two full print bed layouts to fit all components, totaling about 15 hours of print time per kit. This limits production but it does allow me to ‘work’ while I sleep, or print while I am working on new CAD models… I am not going to get rich this way, but I will get to continue doing what I enjoy and provide all of you with kits, that I hope you love.

Great to see that model seeing the light of day. Good luck with the printing!

Glad to see you continue to make stuff, Mark!

Good to see these available finally in some form.


If you do decide to sell STLs down the line, that would also be great for some of us as unfortunately for Aussies that ebay listing works out to come to a fraction under 45% more at AU$215 than the new Dorn tank purchased directly from GW at full AU$RRP of $AU$150

Thank you everyone!

I just posted this on the old Kickstater page, and its relevant to Azazelx's comment, so I may as well share it here and ask the same question/feedback. Where and how to launch STL files? As I state in the following I am working my way back through all the old kits.... What do you all think? am I not seeing something I should be doing now? and whats your opinion on the how and where? I can set up a file site direct at DreamForge-games.com but other locations will likely get more traffic.... Thoughts?

"Thank you all so much!

I have been so out of contact with this wonderful hobby world for the last couple of years, being swallowed by more normal 9-5 carrier focus that I was not sure if I would even get a response. Last November I suffered an injury that took me out of that realm (nothing serious, just something that prevented me from working the field I was in) So... I thought, well what next?

As you pointed out, selling STL's was an option but many of the files are not optimized for 3D printers, too many parts, parts broken up for direction of pull for hard tooling and some not in a STL or OBJ fomat, so I started looking at what needed to be done. I looked at the StuG and thought, that's a good place to start.

My intention is exactly as is being discussed.

Ultimately STL's that are prepped and tested with pre-supported files for resin printers, and an offering of pre-printed kits for those without printers or the technical know how.

My intention currently is to work back through many of the kits, optimizing for printing, creating kits while testing supports and moving to the next. Ultimately completing all past kits (minus those currently in production with the fabulous Wargames Atlantic) Until there is a product catalog of print ready kits, enough to warrant a Kickstarter or Patreon or MyMiniFactory offering... I am open to suggestions/insight or paths to that end goal.

Thank you all again!

Mark~"

Thank you all!
Mark

Yay! Glad to see you working to get this out.

As for STLs, I buy mine from Cults3D and MyMiniFactory. I prefer the latter, and I see a lot of people are using Patreon to initially fund the creation of the STLs, then once "paid for", making them generally available for purchase on places such as MyMiniFactory.

I get a lot of STLs via Patreon, which would be one of the highest profile places foir STLs as ongoing monthly revenue. The other top one would be MyMiniFactory's "Tribes" program.

I generally purchase them from MMF since we have a bit of a Netflix or Steam situation (how many sites do you want your STL library spread across?)

MMF also has a "not-kickstarter" system set up for STL campaigns, so you can just sell STLs outright (with or without commercial licences - at different rates), have an ongoing monthly revenue stream for new STLs and then selling them on your MMF store (if keeping up appeals to you) or also run campaigns with a bunch of STLs - or whatever combo of the three appeals.

It would be worthwhile

Thank you for the info! I'm pretty green in the STL for sale arena.

Just a heads up for those who do not own a 3D printer... The last batch flew off Ebay and based on feedback from the old kickstarter page I set up a new email for pre-orders.

Email me at preorder@dreamforge-games.com

In this email, please send me the following information:

1) I will need your shipping information. Name, Address, etc.… everything I would need to create a shipping label.

2) Let me know how many Grav StuG kits you want, if you want multiple kits.

3) I will be sending through the USPS at the least expensive option available but if you require special handling, insurance or delivery speed… please let me know in the email.


Please do not feel like you will miss out. if you are not ready.... just wait. There will be more coming. I am not taking money at this time, but I will be sending a PayPal invoice when orders are ready. Its 'first in first out' order. I can make about 7-10 kits per week but if the demand is there I may grab another printer to double that?

Whups didn't finish my final sentence there!

It woul dbe worthwhile to spend a coupl eof hours browsing both Patreron and MyMiniFactory to get a "feel" for the STL market and see if it's something that interests you.

For other established players on the smaller side, both Raging Heroes and Avatars of War have pretty successful Patreon campaigns running, and RH offers them both via Patreon as well as on their own site.

Wargames Atlantic have just started their own Tribes on MMF as well - might be some people there whose brains you can pick from the STL seller perspective.

Good luck!

Edit- Atlantic, not Factory. Derp!

I would also absolutely love to get an STL of one of these, especially with international shipping being what it is. I hope you can find a way to make it happen

Mark,

Wargames Atlantic have branched out into Digital selling both stls and physical prints via only-games.

Seeing as they are selling your old Eisenkern, are they available for advice?

A Wargames Atlantic license/partnership does seem like the obvious "easy button."

I personally prefer MMF (which WA is on), and failing that Cults3D. Gumroad is another option, but not recommended.

Looking forward to seeing these come out!

I feel the cost of this has been vastly over estimated looking at comparable 3d printed tanks.

I have a comparable 3d printed tank, in my hand, for 1/20th of the cost, and could buy it from the maker for half with considerably more options.

I also still find your comments around the January 6th Capital Riots deeply troubling, so for the time being, this is an easy pass

Gomezaddams wrote:I feel the cost of this has been vastly over estimated looking at comparable 3d printed tanks.

I have a comparable 3d printed tank, in my hand, for 1/20th of the cost, and could buy it from the maker for half with considerably more options.

I also still find your comments around the January 6th Capital Riots deeply troubling, so for the time being, this is an easy pass

What is this about?

I have never been anything but cordial to you and everyone on this forum. But you decided to jump in and disparage my products, and me personally? Why?

If you can get a tank model printed by someone for $3.25 then more power to you! My packaging costs are higher than that. The resin costs are nearly four times that. I do not run a charity, I sell kits at a profit and I charge what I feel is fair given the number of sales I anticipate and the amount of time taken to create the initial model, to work through the support process and failures and end up with a final kit I am proud to call mine and a completed file that will be, at some point, tried true and tested for those who wish to print their own.

This feels more like you want to attack me on some ideological tribal basis, which is likely not even a true representation of my views, then I cannot stop you, but that is a ‘you’ problem. If I am reading something into your statement that is not there, then please let me know.




Don’t’ like the kit, don’t buy it. Think its too expensive, don’t buy it, but please try not to disparage me or my products with views that have obvious flaws or nothing to do with anything based in reality.

 Gomezaddams wrote:
I feel the cost of this has been vastly over estimated looking at comparable 3d printed tanks.

I have a comparable 3d printed tank, in my hand, for 1/20th of the cost, and could buy it from the maker for half with considerably more options.

I also still find your comments around the January 6th Capital Riots deeply troubling, so for the time being, this is an easy pass

Glad somebody finally said it. I'm uncomfortable enough with Wargames Atlantic licensing the designs, but at least I can just buy their other non-Dreamforge kits.

 NoseGoblin wrote:

Gomezaddams wrote:I feel the cost of this has been vastly over estimated looking at comparable 3d printed tanks.

I have a comparable 3d printed tank, in my hand, for 1/20th of the cost, and could buy it from the maker for half with considerably more options.

I also still find your comments around the January 6th Capital Riots deeply troubling, so for the time being, this is an easy pass

What is this about?

I have never been anything but cordial to you and everyone on this forum. But you decided to jump in and disparage my products, and me personally? Why?

If you can get a tank model printed by someone for $3.25 then more power to you! My packaging costs are higher than that. The resin costs are nearly four times that. I do not run a charity, I sell kits at a profit and I charge what I feel is fair given the number of sales I anticipate and the amount of time taken to create the initial model, to work through the support process and failures and end up with a final kit I am proud to call mine and a completed file that will be, at some point, tried true and tested for those who wish to print their own.

This feels more like you want to attack me on some ideological tribal basis, which is likely not even a true representation of my views, then I cannot stop you, but that is a ‘you’ problem. If I am reading something into your statement that is not there, then please let me know.




Don’t’ like the kit, don’t buy it. Think its too expensive, don’t buy it, but please try not to disparage me or my products with views that have obvious flaws or nothing to do with anything based in reality.

This seems like an overreaction. “This is too expensive” is pretty much the Dakka motto.



And might it be better to seem contrite over your seditious statements rather than begging them to be re-examined in detail during your big product drop?

Ignoring the people who want to hate on you because you have a diversity of opinion, I am so glad to see you putting stuff out again! The StuG looks very cool and I look forward to seeing more goodies in the Dreamforge name. You always did some of the coolest non-40k titans

Deleted.

I see, it seems that there is still an lack of understanding, despite what I said last on the subject.

For me, the issue is resolved but there may still be a misunderstanding. Allow me to once again reiterate my position to clear the air and allow for a more upright assessment. Sedition is a serious charge, and falsely leveling such an accusation should be rebutted. If the accusation is made from ignorance, it falls upon me to correct or at least educate the position.

I have a problem with corporations controlling speech, dictating correct and incorrect speech. These are unelected bodies, unanswerable to the public as they are not elected representatives, who decide what is and is not ‘correct’ speech. I thought I made that clear, but perhaps, I was not to the point as much as I needed to be.
I know the EU/UK have differing opinions for the US regarding this area, but I live in the US under US law and was raised with the US constitution as our countries guiding principles, so my views will differ on this subject.

I had no intention of reopening this subject until someone that I have always viewed as a friend, once again leveled an accusation that was, to my view incorrect. So, I challenged the accusation in order to hear what he had to say. I also stated in no uncertain terms that I felt the accusation was false and likely coming from a place that was less than an honest position… which I admit freely may be incorrect.

But here we are with a few posts now, incorrectly assigning intent (as is the crux of my argument about the unelected, unanswerable corporate entities).

You may dislike me, my views, my stance but please do so with a full view of the facts, the intent and the issues and reasons I pushed back.

So, hate me if you must, but calling my comments ‘seditious’ is not an honest representation. My comments were and are based on my point of view of the freedom of speech, the corporate unaccountable entities deciding what is and is not ‘correct’ the issues I take with that recent development.

I have no intention of visiting this subject again, as I feel I have been very clear with this response, but I am also not in the habit of allowing people to smear me without some challenge if I feel the are doing so out of spite.

Its not about being a 'hater'. I was an ardent Dreamforge fan for many many years; I actively promoted your range just about everywhere, I bought quite a bit too (thats not to say I was a 'whale' by any means but I was probably up there). So I was a firm fan - that's a fair assessment. When Wargames Atlantic picked up your range I was chuffed to bits, and looked forward to filling my boots with Valkr once again.

Then you posted some difficult comments... now you're entirely entitled to your opinion. That's absolutely fine - but as a customer, if that opinion doesn't align with my own, I'm probably going to question my choices. If you remember, I asked you about that post at the time and if those weren't your views you could have clarified it then. So, as a customer, I moved away and slowly sold my collection, and other than a disappointment, I just moved on - that's my choice.

That rules me out as a customer, broadly speaking. Now if I've completely misunderstood that you could easily respond to that in and of itself.


For the next bit lets be clear, you can charge whatever you want for your product. You can - and people will always question price.

There's a lot more knowledge out there. Anyone can download a 3d tank kit, stick it into Chitubox, and get a sense of cost. Or you can go on Etsy and look at sellers of Solwyte kits regularly coming in well under your cost here, for arguably more complex kits, and paying a license to the creator on top of that. Two full print beds to me says you haven't optimised it for 3d printing from the original design for plastic - even so, the price is still vastly inflated in my opinion.

This firmly rules me out as a customer - not because of the price, but because I don't understand the price in the context of what I already know.

EDIT: It seems Marks replied, whilst I was replying. I'll leave this as is as I think it still stands.

Thank you very much for the response.

Please, allow me to apologize for placing you in that position, for making you feel the way I did because my lack of proper communication. I am truly sorry that I caused this outcome. I am not saying that to try and sway you or win you back or any such thing, just that I need you to know I am sorry for letting you down.

Water under the bridge at this point… Thank you for sharing your view and helping me to understand.


Mark

Deleted.

Hey Mark, glad to see you come back, i was really bummed when you had to shut down, i was getting ready to make a big order when it happened.

I own one of your leviathans and i must say for the price it is a fantastic kit. super easy to assemble for the most part (except for those darn pistons, had to glue them in place) with tiny screws and move-able joints to boot. i use it as my stand in warhound from time to time.



Unfortunately i found another hover STUGG from another designer to use with my DUST 1947 army, but yours does look fantastic.

Shouting fire in a movie theater to protest your right to freedom of speech is problematic.

Small pet peeve.....you really should research your anecdotal evidence before you try to use it. that ruling was overturned by the US supreme court. you can in fact yell fire in a crowded theater, however if there is no fire and your actions create panic that causes injury then other legal actions may apply.

Also just a reminder of the forum rules political discussions are not allowed so rather it be the jan 6 riots at the US capitol building or the may 31 riots at the white house.....or anything of the like-take them somewhere else please. Lets just stick to the discussions about our plastic crack and Marks kits.

Indeed, folks... You are perfectly entitled to (politely) convey your opinion of a miniature producer, but this is not the place for a discussion of US elections or freedom of speech.

Deleted.

Which reminds me I still need a mini Mortis

My titans need friends...

cainex1 wrote:
Ignoring the people who want to hate on you because you have a diversity of opinion, I am so glad to see you putting stuff out again! The StuG looks very cool and I look forward to seeing more goodies in the Dreamforge name. You always did some of the coolest non-40k titans

It wasn’t his opinion. It was that he used his Dreamforge store page rather than his personal page to shout it. And when customers replied, he tripled down and got louder. Then deleted everything and still shifts blame to the customers for “not understanding”.

If he hadn’t used Dreamforce’s customer-facing site, his opinion wouldn’t be so linked to Dreamforge.

 Gomezaddams wrote:
I feel the cost of this has been vastly over estimated looking at comparable 3d printed tanks.

I have a comparable 3d printed tank, in my hand, for 1/20th of the cost, and could buy it from the maker for half with considerably more options.

I also still find your comments around the January 6th Capital Riots deeply troubling, so for the time being, this is an easy pass

Your statements are about as absurd as your judgement. For comparison, the MMF print-on-demand service charges $150USD for the Station Forge's Grimguard not-Leman Russ.

Holy Hel, when did Dakka become Facebook?

I'm glad to see this model back! We as a hobby lost some very cool designs in the future and past Weird War II space when you pulled back from the industry. Same with DUST unfortunately as well.

I'm glad you sold out of your inventory already and I hope with the money raised from the sales you might be able to increase your economies of scale through bigger (and obviously more expensive!) printers. Which one(s) are you currently using for your print farm out of curiosity? Also, $69 for a tank released on Valentine's Day...

Glad to see Dream Forge back!

So... Block Head when?