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2023/03/29 20:13:37
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/29/lion-eljonson-rules-revealed-10000-years-of-rest-havent-dulled-his-epic-combat-skills/
and his book https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/29/the-hunt-is-on-in-the-lion-son-of-the-forest/
So... is he a little baby Skarbrand for the Unforgiven/ IoM? He's cool... and as long as he's points efficient, I'm all about him, but looking at RG... maybe his sword is a bit OP?
I guess we should assume that the Lion is simply better at using Fealty than Guilliman is at using the Big E Sword... because clearly, he's not getting as good results from it... and by extension, the Lion doesn't seem to be that great with the Emperor's Shield, as Guilliman's armor is outpacing it.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/03/29 20:24:46
DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+
Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2
One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners |
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2023/03/29 20:31:17
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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I'm curious what his rules are BESIDES big man go smashy.
Which is not to say I dislike smashy units, just that I expect The Lion to do more.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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2023/03/29 20:35:06
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I’m not sure how I feel about the whole ‘moving through the forest dimension’ business. I don’t know if it fits the lion, I look forward to seeing if the lore makes it work
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2023/03/29 20:36:55
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
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20 ap-3 damage 2 attacks hitting on 2’s seems to be a bit much to me personally. The two remaining questions for me are points and army wide rules. I’ll hold a lot of judgement until they show how he buffs DA and the imperium units.
I do have some slight resentment that the demon primarchs are all impossible to hide whereas these guys are almost guaranteed to make it into combat unscathed.
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Iron within, Iron without |
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2023/03/29 20:37:55
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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mrFickle wrote:I’m not sure how I feel about the whole ‘moving through the forest dimension’ business. I don’t know if it fits the lion, I look forward to seeing if the lore makes it work
Perhaps he's not 'moving' as much as astral-projecting, i.e. his geriatric behind is still snugly asleep on the Rock and what we perceive is just his spiritual presence... the cover of his book looks very green-knighty, and it would make sense with all that talk about 'The Dreamer'.
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2023/03/29 20:38:20
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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A quick bit of math... if RG and the Lion each were separately fighting a Dreadnaught and MEQ squad in melee at the same time and each divided their attackers evenly between the MEQ squad and the Dread...
The Lion: scores 9 wounds on the MEQ and 12 on the Dread
RG: scores 9 wounds on the MEQ but only 6 on the Dread...
but if he's allowed to shot on the approach (which we don't know yet if this version of the Lion has lost or gained a pistol... so can't comment on a parallel there) he could get another 2 on the MEQ
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DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+
Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2
One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners |
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2023/03/29 20:41:56
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Lobukia wrote:(which we don't know yet if this version of the Lion has lost or gained a pistol... It's literally right there on his right hip.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/03/29 20:42:50
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2023/03/29 20:55:44
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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Platuan4th wrote: Lobukia wrote:(which we don't know yet if this version of the Lion has lost or gained a pistol...
It's literally right there on his right hip.
I know of no figurative form of “right there”
I meant stat-wise… no clue if he uses it and if it’s his HH one (so did he lose the old hand-cannon and gain a different one or has the ole Fusil Actinaeus stuck around)?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/03/29 21:23:02
DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+
Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2
One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners |
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2023/03/29 21:48:43
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc
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I guess there's a reason we never saw Emps use that ceremonial shield in combat.
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2023/03/29 21:58:54
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Fixture of Dakka
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So so far it appears that he's a killier deepstriking smash captain?
What's the deal with his forest dimension power?
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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2023/03/29 22:09:24
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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odinsgrandson wrote:I guess there's a reason we never saw Emps use that ceremonial shield in combat.
Lol. Well said! Some day in the future “Son, that decorative ecranche was never meant to be used… how’d it do?”
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DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+
Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2
One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners |
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2023/03/29 23:19:37
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Not a fan of forest dimension deeps trike, just dosent make any kind of sense to me.
His attacks seem about right but I am disappointed in his defense. I mean the emperor's own sheild is just a 4++? Wowsa
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2023/03/30 00:26:00
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Fixture of Dakka
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Boosykes wrote:Not a fan of forest dimension deeps trike, just dosent make any kind of sense to me.
His attacks seem about right but I am disappointed in his defense. I mean the emperor's own sheild is just a 4++? Wowsa
I get the impression they're trying to lean into the "hunter" thing to make him an assassin type unit. Deepstrike in to avoid needing to tank much before you charge. Hopefully kill something important. Rely on "normal" primarch durability to survive for another go. I guess the Lion is probably the squishiest primarch we've seen so far. Guilliman has his super duper life support armor. The chaos primarchs are big demon things. Lionel is basically the same as ever, but with bed sores.
I'm worried that GW is going to make it even harder to balance this guy than the other primarchs. If you're supposed to deepstrike him, he's going to be in your face turn 2 with primarch stats. So it seems like he'll either be so good in that role that he becomes unpleasant to play against, or else he's just a more expensive smash captain that you'll probably kill in one turn thus making him suboptimal.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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2023/03/30 01:44:41
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
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Wyldhunt wrote:Boosykes wrote:Not a fan of forest dimension deeps trike, just dosent make any kind of sense to me.
His attacks seem about right but I am disappointed in his defense. I mean the emperor's own sheild is just a 4++? Wowsa
I get the impression they're trying to lean into the "hunter" thing to make him an assassin type unit. Deepstrike in to avoid needing to tank much before you charge. Hopefully kill something important. Rely on "normal" primarch durability to survive for another go. I guess the Lion is probably the squishiest primarch we've seen so far. Guilliman has his super duper life support armor. The chaos primarchs are big demon things. Lionel is basically the same as ever, but with bed sores.
I'm worried that GW is going to make it even harder to balance this guy than the other primarchs. If you're supposed to deepstrike him, he's going to be in your face turn 2 with primarch stats. So it seems like he'll either be so good in that role that he becomes unpleasant to play against, or else he's just a more expensive smash captain that you'll probably kill in one turn thus making him suboptimal.
Honestly I just write off the “forrest walk” as a teleport strike. It’s the Dark Angels, surely they have one of the best stocks of archeotek among the space marines. So the lion is probably rocking a great personal teleport homer letting him deep strike and reroll the charge. Forrest dimension is clearly just some primitive world description.
I get the 4++ is underwhelming but honestly I’d rather keep a firm cap on the 3++ invuls. He’s also arguably as tanky as you can keep him screened. He’s almost immune to shooting as long as that is there.
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Iron within, Iron without |
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2023/03/31 17:35:22
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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I look forward to cooking him with Multimeltas. One Dev Squad within 12" will do it. Mmmm. . . Microwaved Primarch.
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2023/04/01 00:01:36
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Insectum7 wrote:I look forward to cooking him with Multimeltas. One Dev Squad within 12" will do it. Mmmm. . . Microwaved Primarch.
You're assuming this is the totality of his rules and he doesn't also have a wound max per phase like almost every other big character.
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2023/04/01 00:24:47
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Platuan4th wrote: Insectum7 wrote:I look forward to cooking him with Multimeltas. One Dev Squad within 12" will do it. Mmmm. . . Microwaved Primarch.
You're assuming this is the totality of his rules and he doesn't also have a wound max per phase like almost every other big character.
Which other characters have that? Not Guilliman, iirc. Nor the Daemon Primarchs, at least last I played against them.
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2023/04/01 01:03:28
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Insectum7 wrote: Platuan4th wrote: Insectum7 wrote:I look forward to cooking him with Multimeltas. One Dev Squad within 12" will do it. Mmmm. . . Microwaved Primarch. You're assuming this is the totality of his rules and he doesn't also have a wound max per phase like almost every other big character.
Which other characters have that? Not Guilliman, iirc. Nor the Daemon Primarchs, at least last I played against them. Abaddon, Ghazkul, C'tan, a few others.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/04/01 01:08:00
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2023/04/01 01:39:55
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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No Primarchs though, so that's something.
I hope 10th kills that type of special rule anyways. "Plot Armor: the rule" should go the way of the dodo.
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2023/04/01 09:06:03
Subject: Lion Rules up
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Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard
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mrFickle wrote:I’m not sure how I feel about the whole ‘moving through the forest dimension’ business. I don’t know if it fits the lion, I look forward to seeing if the lore makes it work
It's GW ripping off - I mean borrowing from - the Grail Legend Green Knight again. They did something similar to the Green Knight Lord in Bretonian armies.
As for the Shield - its pretty Meh for being a named artifact equipment piece.
Storm Shield 4++ and armor save
Relic Shield 4++ and Mortal Wound Save
This thing: 4++ and reflection. I'm not saying it should have been 3++ but maybe give it two+ bonuses - Mortal and Reflection, or Armor and Reflection etc.
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My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. |
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