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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/29/lion-eljonson-rules-revealed-10000-years-of-rest-havent-dulled-his-epic-combat-skills/

and his book https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/29/the-hunt-is-on-in-the-lion-son-of-the-forest/

So... is he a little baby Skarbrand for the Unforgiven/IoM? He's cool... and as long as he's points efficient, I'm all about him, but looking at RG... maybe his sword is a bit OP?

I guess we should assume that the Lion is simply better at using Fealty than Guilliman is at using the Big E Sword... because clearly, he's not getting as good results from it... and by extension, the Lion doesn't seem to be that great with the Emperor's Shield, as Guilliman's armor is outpacing it.

I'm curious what his rules are BESIDES big man go smashy.

Which is not to say I dislike smashy units, just that I expect The Lion to do more.

I’m not sure how I feel about the whole ‘moving through the forest dimension’ business. I don’t know if it fits the lion, I look forward to seeing if the lore makes it work

20 ap-3 damage 2 attacks hitting on 2’s seems to be a bit much to me personally. The two remaining questions for me are points and army wide rules. I’ll hold a lot of judgement until they show how he buffs DA and the imperium units.

I do have some slight resentment that the demon primarchs are all impossible to hide whereas these guys are almost guaranteed to make it into combat unscathed.

mrFickle wrote:
I’m not sure how I feel about the whole ‘moving through the forest dimension’ business. I don’t know if it fits the lion, I look forward to seeing if the lore makes it work

Perhaps he's not 'moving' as much as astral-projecting, i.e. his geriatric behind is still snugly asleep on the Rock and what we perceive is just his spiritual presence... the cover of his book looks very green-knighty, and it would make sense with all that talk about 'The Dreamer'.

A quick bit of math... if RG and the Lion each were separately fighting a Dreadnaught and MEQ squad in melee at the same time and each divided their attackers evenly between the MEQ squad and the Dread...

The Lion: scores 9 wounds on the MEQ and 12 on the Dread

RG: scores 9 wounds on the MEQ but only 6 on the Dread...

but if he's allowed to shot on the approach (which we don't know yet if this version of the Lion has lost or gained a pistol... so can't comment on a parallel there) he could get another 2 on the MEQ

 Lobukia wrote:
(which we don't know yet if this version of the Lion has lost or gained a pistol...

It's literally right there on his right hip.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
(which we don't know yet if this version of the Lion has lost or gained a pistol...

It's literally right there on his right hip.

I know of no figurative form of “right there”

I meant stat-wise… no clue if he uses it and if it’s his HH one (so did he lose the old hand-cannon and gain a different one or has the ole Fusil Actinaeus stuck around)?

I guess there's a reason we never saw Emps use that ceremonial shield in combat.

So so far it appears that he's a killier deepstriking smash captain?

What's the deal with his forest dimension power?

 odinsgrandson wrote:
I guess there's a reason we never saw Emps use that ceremonial shield in combat.

Lol. Well said! Some day in the future “Son, that decorative ecranche was never meant to be used… how’d it do?”

Not a fan of forest dimension deeps trike, just dosent make any kind of sense to me.

His attacks seem about right but I am disappointed in his defense. I mean the emperor's own sheild is just a 4++? Wowsa

Boosykes wrote:
Not a fan of forest dimension deeps trike, just dosent make any kind of sense to me.

His attacks seem about right but I am disappointed in his defense. I mean the emperor's own sheild is just a 4++? Wowsa

I get the impression they're trying to lean into the "hunter" thing to make him an assassin type unit. Deepstrike in to avoid needing to tank much before you charge. Hopefully kill something important. Rely on "normal" primarch durability to survive for another go. I guess the Lion is probably the squishiest primarch we've seen so far. Guilliman has his super duper life support armor. The chaos primarchs are big demon things. Lionel is basically the same as ever, but with bed sores.

I'm worried that GW is going to make it even harder to balance this guy than the other primarchs. If you're supposed to deepstrike him, he's going to be in your face turn 2 with primarch stats. So it seems like he'll either be so good in that role that he becomes unpleasant to play against, or else he's just a more expensive smash captain that you'll probably kill in one turn thus making him suboptimal.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

Boosykes wrote:
Not a fan of forest dimension deeps trike, just dosent make any kind of sense to me.

His attacks seem about right but I am disappointed in his defense. I mean the emperor's own sheild is just a 4++? Wowsa

I get the impression they're trying to lean into the "hunter" thing to make him an assassin type unit. Deepstrike in to avoid needing to tank much before you charge. Hopefully kill something important. Rely on "normal" primarch durability to survive for another go. I guess the Lion is probably the squishiest primarch we've seen so far. Guilliman has his super duper life support armor. The chaos primarchs are big demon things. Lionel is basically the same as ever, but with bed sores.

I'm worried that GW is going to make it even harder to balance this guy than the other primarchs. If you're supposed to deepstrike him, he's going to be in your face turn 2 with primarch stats. So it seems like he'll either be so good in that role that he becomes unpleasant to play against, or else he's just a more expensive smash captain that you'll probably kill in one turn thus making him suboptimal.

Honestly I just write off the “forrest walk” as a teleport strike. It’s the Dark Angels, surely they have one of the best stocks of archeotek among the space marines. So the lion is probably rocking a great personal teleport homer letting him deep strike and reroll the charge. Forrest dimension is clearly just some primitive world description.

I get the 4++ is underwhelming but honestly I’d rather keep a firm cap on the 3++ invuls. He’s also arguably as tanky as you can keep him screened. He’s almost immune to shooting as long as that is there.

I look forward to cooking him with Multimeltas. One Dev Squad within 12" will do it. Mmmm. . . Microwaved Primarch.

 Insectum7 wrote:
I look forward to cooking him with Multimeltas. One Dev Squad within 12" will do it. Mmmm. . . Microwaved Primarch.

You're assuming this is the totality of his rules and he doesn't also have a wound max per phase like almost every other big character.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I look forward to cooking him with Multimeltas. One Dev Squad within 12" will do it. Mmmm. . . Microwaved Primarch.

You're assuming this is the totality of his rules and he doesn't also have a wound max per phase like almost every other big character.

Which other characters have that? Not Guilliman, iirc. Nor the Daemon Primarchs, at least last I played against them.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I look forward to cooking him with Multimeltas. One Dev Squad within 12" will do it. Mmmm. . . Microwaved Primarch.

You're assuming this is the totality of his rules and he doesn't also have a wound max per phase like almost every other big character.

Which other characters have that? Not Guilliman, iirc. Nor the Daemon Primarchs, at least last I played against them.

Abaddon, Ghazkul, C'tan, a few others.

No Primarchs though, so that's something.

I hope 10th kills that type of special rule anyways. "Plot Armor: the rule" should go the way of the dodo.

mrFickle wrote:
I’m not sure how I feel about the whole ‘moving through the forest dimension’ business. I don’t know if it fits the lion, I look forward to seeing if the lore makes it work

It's GW ripping off - I mean borrowing from - the Grail Legend Green Knight again. They did something similar to the Green Knight Lord in Bretonian armies.

As for the Shield - its pretty Meh for being a named artifact equipment piece.

Storm Shield 4++ and armor save
Relic Shield 4++ and Mortal Wound Save

This thing: 4++ and reflection. I'm not saying it should have been 3++ but maybe give it two+ bonuses - Mortal and Reflection, or Armor and Reflection etc.