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This question has been on my mind a lot. My theory is if they don't, then that probably makes them a product of the Silent King. A bioweapon he/it placed around the galaxy during the 65 million years in exile. If Tyranids don't eat Necrons, Necrons can wait for the Tyranids to just eat everything and then starve to death.

Necrons are an excellent source of iron and other minerals.

The Silent King didn't make the Tyranids. His reason for returning to the Milky Way is to stop them from destroying any chance the Necrons have to reverse the Biotranspherence and also keep their domain intact.

 Gert wrote:
The Silent King didn't make the Tyranids. His reason for returning to the Milky Way is to stop them from destroying any chance the Necrons have to reverse the Biotranspherence and also keep their domain intact.

Is there a PoV of him saying this or is it that we've just been told by GW?

The fact the Tyranids use DNA is a huge red flag to me that they're from the Milky Way. People get confused that all means of genetic material is DNA but the likelihood of an alien species using DNA in the exact same way with the proper codons is basically zero. Statistically speaking they have to be from the Milky Way, and thus likely the Necrons as well. I mean space is HUGE, the likelihood of the Silent King running into the Tyranids is basically zero.

NorthernXY wrote:

 Gert wrote:
The Silent King didn't make the Tyranids. His reason for returning to the Milky Way is to stop them from destroying any chance the Necrons have to reverse the Biotranspherence and also keep their domain intact.

Is there a PoV of him saying this or is it that we've just been told by GW?

The fact the Tyranids use DNA is a huge red flag to me that they're from the Milky Way. People get confused that all means of genetic material is DNA but the likelihood of an alien species using DNA in the exact same way with the proper codons is basically zero. Statistically speaking they have to be from the Milky Way, and thus likely the Necrons as well. I mean space is HUGE, the likelihood of the Silent King running into the Tyranids is basically zero.

The way Tyranids use DNA isn't really how real DNA works anyway.

Tyranids use DNA because all life uses DNA and as Tyranids are alive and not from the warp, they use DNA. I wouldn't look too far past that viewpoint because Tyranids are born of space-fantasy from the 80-90s not from hard core science.


So they likely are not from the Milky Way, its just that they use DNA and that in the 40K setting DNA works like that and all non-warp life in the universe uses DNA (perhaps barring a few exceptions).




Or perhaps the Milky Way was seeded by Tyranids. Perhaps Tyranids have super-advanced tendrils that whip out across the universe, seeding Galaxies with organic life so that when the Tyranids come to feed, some of the Galaxy has already been pre-packaged into easily eaten food.





Also far as I recall Tyranids will consume pretty much everything from organic to mineral; from solid to liquid to gas. I think the reason we don't see them consuming everything is because it takes longer to digest and make ready use of less organic compounds. I've also mused that perhaps they leave most stars and gas giants because the Tyranids are not in a feeding mode, they are in a pacification mode. So they readily strip worlds of biomass because they can quickly feed upon and use it whilst also denying those worlds other races for extended periods of time.
I figure this tactic works for them to pacify a Galaxy to the point where nothing can contest them (or is left alive). Then they can enter a true feeding state where they can take their time on mineral content and also feast on more extensive biomatter like gas giants and the like. Feasting up so that they've a huge bulk of food for the next journey into the black between galaxies.

NorthernXY wrote:
Is there a PoV of him saying this or is it that we've just been told by GW?

It's attributed to him in the Necron Codex and has been a part of his backstory since he allied with the Blood Angels to defeat a Hive Tendril.

Statistically speaking they have to be from the Milky Way, and thus likely the Necrons as well. I mean space is HUGE, the likelihood of the Silent King running into the Tyranids is basically zero.

He had about 60 million years to cut about in the void with a large attendant fleet. We don't know when he found them only that he did and then showed up at the end of M41 to try and form a united front with the remaining Necron Dynasties in a preservation effort.
If you're going by maths then the nearest galaxy is about 25,000 Light Years away and Necrons do have FTL tech. The Silent King had 60 million years so he could have explored a few galaxies then found the Tyranids and scurried back to the Milky Way, just in time for the First Tyrannic War to start.
The one point I will concede is that it is noted in the Necron Codex that it is very convenient that the Silent King found the Tyranids in the void and that any who question this story mysteriously disappear.

If it helps, there was a bit of fluff where the Shadowseer of the Veiled Path implies that he created tyranids, but this seems likely to be untrue/eldar bias/possibly a straight up lie on the part of the harlequin.

 Overread wrote:

NorthernXY wrote:

 Gert wrote:
The Silent King didn't make the Tyranids. His reason for returning to the Milky Way is to stop them from destroying any chance the Necrons have to reverse the Biotranspherence and also keep their domain intact.

Is there a PoV of him saying this or is it that we've just been told by GW?

The fact the Tyranids use DNA is a huge red flag to me that they're from the Milky Way. People get confused that all means of genetic material is DNA but the likelihood of an alien species using DNA in the exact same way with the proper codons is basically zero. Statistically speaking they have to be from the Milky Way, and thus likely the Necrons as well. I mean space is HUGE, the likelihood of the Silent King running into the Tyranids is basically zero.

The way Tyranids use DNA isn't really how real DNA works anyway. Huh?

Tyranids use DNA because all life uses DNA all "life" on planet Earth uses DNA, other planets in the Milky Way can use a different way of passing on genetic material and as Tyranids are alive and not from the warp, they use DNA. I wouldn't look too far past that viewpoint because Tyranids are born of space-fantasy from the 80-90s not from hard core science.


So they likely are not from the Milky Way, its just that they use DNA and that in the 40K setting DNA works like that and all non-warp life in the universe uses DNA (perhaps barring a few exceptions).




Or perhaps the Milky Way was seeded by Tyranids. Perhaps Tyranids have super-advanced tendrils that whip out across the universe, seeding Galaxies with organic life so that when the Tyranids come to feed, some of the Galaxy has already been pre-packaged into easily eaten food.





Also far as I recall Tyranids will consume pretty much everything from organic to mineral; from solid to liquid to gas. I think the reason we don't see them consuming everything is because it takes longer to digest and make ready use of less organic compounds. I've also mused that perhaps they leave most stars and gas giants because the Tyranids are not in a feeding mode, they are in a pacification mode. So they readily strip worlds of biomass because they can quickly feed upon and use it whilst also denying those worlds other races for extended periods of time.
I figure this tactic works for them to pacify a Galaxy to the point where nothing can contest them (or is left alive). Then they can enter a true feeding state where they can take their time on mineral content and also feast on more extensive biomatter like gas giants and the like. Feasting up so that they've a huge bulk of food for the next journey into the black between galaxies.

I'm a biochemist so it took me zero seconds to think about this, but I guess this is like the Astartes or the Kroot eating something and gaining its memories.

P.S. The Aeldari having multiple DNA strands "wrapped" around each other is just asking for cancer (and wouldn't work).

While it is debatable if Tyranids can eat Necrons (at the very least they do eat metal), Tyranids definitely attack and destroy tomb worlds so it is the kind of difference that doesn't really matters much.

As for Tyranids having DNA, that's a combination of GW not knowing science and "DNA" being a catch all layman term for all kinds of genetic material.

Or at least that is how I try to reconcile it.

NorthernXY wrote:

 Overread wrote:

NorthernXY wrote:

 Gert wrote:
The Silent King didn't make the Tyranids. His reason for returning to the Milky Way is to stop them from destroying any chance the Necrons have to reverse the Biotranspherence and also keep their domain intact.

Is there a PoV of him saying this or is it that we've just been told by GW?

The fact the Tyranids use DNA is a huge red flag to me that they're from the Milky Way. People get confused that all means of genetic material is DNA but the likelihood of an alien species using DNA in the exact same way with the proper codons is basically zero. Statistically speaking they have to be from the Milky Way, and thus likely the Necrons as well. I mean space is HUGE, the likelihood of the Silent King running into the Tyranids is basically zero.

The way Tyranids use DNA isn't really how real DNA works anyway. Huh?

Tyranids use DNA because all life uses DNA all "life" on planet Earth uses DNA, other planets in the Milky Way can use a different way of passing on genetic material and as Tyranids are alive and not from the warp, they use DNA. I wouldn't look too far past that viewpoint because Tyranids are born of space-fantasy from the 80-90s not from hard core science.


So they likely are not from the Milky Way, its just that they use DNA and that in the 40K setting DNA works like that and all non-warp life in the universe uses DNA (perhaps barring a few exceptions).




Or perhaps the Milky Way was seeded by Tyranids. Perhaps Tyranids have super-advanced tendrils that whip out across the universe, seeding Galaxies with organic life so that when the Tyranids come to feed, some of the Galaxy has already been pre-packaged into easily eaten food.





Also far as I recall Tyranids will consume pretty much everything from organic to mineral; from solid to liquid to gas. I think the reason we don't see them consuming everything is because it takes longer to digest and make ready use of less organic compounds. I've also mused that perhaps they leave most stars and gas giants because the Tyranids are not in a feeding mode, they are in a pacification mode. So they readily strip worlds of biomass because they can quickly feed upon and use it whilst also denying those worlds other races for extended periods of time.
I figure this tactic works for them to pacify a Galaxy to the point where nothing can contest them (or is left alive). Then they can enter a true feeding state where they can take their time on mineral content and also feast on more extensive biomatter like gas giants and the like. Feasting up so that they've a huge bulk of food for the next journey into the black between galaxies.

I'm a biochemist so it took me zero seconds to think about this, but I guess this is like the Astartes or the Kroot eating something and gaining its memories.

P.S. The Aeldari having multiple DNA strands "wrapped" around each other is just asking for cancer (and wouldn't work).

When in doubt, assume none of the science described in 40k would stand up to a scientist looking at it closely...

I can't imagine there are many biochemistry degrees amongst GW's writers.

 Gert wrote:

NorthernXY wrote:
Is there a PoV of him saying this or is it that we've just been told by GW?

It's attributed to him in the Necron Codex and has been a part of his backstory since he allied with the Blood Angels to defeat a Hive Tendril.

Statistically speaking they have to be from the Milky Way, and thus likely the Necrons as well. I mean space is HUGE, the likelihood of the Silent King running into the Tyranids is basically zero.

He had about 60 million years to cut about in the void with a large attendant fleet. We don't know when he found them only that he did and then showed up at the end of M41 to try and form a united front with the remaining Necron Dynasties in a preservation effort.
If you're going by maths then the nearest galaxy is about 25,000 Light Years away and Necrons do have FTL tech. The Silent King had 60 million years so he could have explored a few galaxies then found the Tyranids and scurried back to the Milky Way, just in time for the First Tyrannic War to start.
The one point I will concede is that it is noted in the Necron Codex that it is very convenient that the Silent King found the Tyranids in the void and that any who question this story mysteriously disappear.

I'm not sure which galaxy you mean, but Andromeda is 2.5 million light-years away, not 25 thousand. Still the rest of your argument works the same because fiction is fiction and I would find it interesting that the silent king visited other galaxies but we will never here what he saw (besides the existential thread heavily hinted to be the Tyranids)

Of the Necrons themselves? Probably not a lot digestible. Yes their forms have mineral content, but is also self-repairing which may make extracting the desirable mineral content challenging. Guess it comes down to how well concentrated those minerals are, and whether they’ve been blended with others etc.

And thanks to Gauss atomising the target, the Hive Fleets are looking at an unfavourable result if they do win - unless the world being attacked (Tomb World or Outpost etc) has its own non-Necron bio-mass to recover losses from. Nowt to eat of your foe, or your fallen is not a recipe for a Happy Hive Fleet.

But as said, the Silent King’s return is more about preserving whatever life he found in his home Galaxy because the Necrons still hope to reverse biotransference rather than any kind of altruism. Once they’ve cracked that, the first order of the day would likely be “gather the specimens we need, then eradicate the rest, then slip into our new meat suits”

Should this thread be in the lore subforum?

It is possible for Tyranids to be an experiment of the Silent King gone wrong, which they are now trying to undo before it wrecks their home galaxy.

In Xenology, the Tyranids are described as splicing together all kinds of "DNA", not just the kind(s) familiar to humans. Many/most of these probably are not actually deoxyribonucleic acid but some alien equivalent performing the same function. However, the canonicity of Xenology is deliberately vague and is an in-universe persepective, so this may be false.

Relevant snippet:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

NorthernXY wrote:

I'm a biochemist so it took me zero seconds to think about this, but I guess this is like the Astartes or the Kroot eating something and gaining its memories.

P.S. The Aeldari having multiple DNA strands "wrapped" around each other is just asking for cancer (and wouldn't work).

To be fair, aeldari "DNA" is described in Xenology as being a quintuple (the image is quadruple) helix with 20 bases (instead of the human 4) and to change shape under scrutiny, suggesting it is innately psychic. So, basically it is nothing like our DNA, has a healthy dose of literal space magic, and our science is not useful for understanding it.

Brickfix wrote:
I'm not sure which galaxy you mean, but Andromeda is 2.5 million light-years away, not 25 thousand. Still the rest of your argument works the same because fiction is fiction and I would find it interesting that the silent king visited other galaxies but we will never here what he saw (besides the existential thread heavily hinted to be the Tyranids)

Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy, just because it's smaller doesn't mean it doesn't count. Size isn't everything.

 Gert wrote:

Brickfix wrote:
I'm not sure which galaxy you mean, but Andromeda is 2.5 million light-years away, not 25 thousand. Still the rest of your argument works the same because fiction is fiction and I would find it interesting that the silent king visited other galaxies but we will never here what he saw (besides the existential thread heavily hinted to be the Tyranids)

Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy, just because it's smaller doesn't mean it doesn't count. Size isn't everything.

Thanks for the information, I hadn't considered dwarf galaxies. Interesting fact that canis major is closer to us then we are to the center of our galaxy (which would be 27 thousand light-years). There seems to be some scientific debate if it can be even considered it's own galaxy or is more of a density anomaly ...

I wonder if the other satellite galaxies of the milky way are considered in 40k canon in any way. Maybe a topic for the background forum

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

And thanks to Gauss atomising the target, the Hive Fleets are looking at an unfavourable result if they do win - unless the world being attacked (Tomb World or Outpost etc) has its own non-Necron bio-mass to recover losses from. Nowt to eat of your foe, or your fallen is not a recipe for a Happy Hive Fleet.

No, this is a superficial, childlike perception of scale. The literal physical corpses of enemies are an insignificant percentage of the biomass required/desired by a hive fleet. All of the humans on earth together account for 0.01% of the planet's biomass. The physical remains of foes are less than a gleam in the eye of a drop in the bucket when it comes to replenishing a hive fleet; the planetary body is all that matters. If a hive fleet destroyed a billions-strong organic army on a dead moon it still wouldn't be worth the energy investment required to incorporate the biomass of casualties with the fleet.

We have no real idea about how alien life will manifest inside or outside of our own galaxy. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for GW to make DNA a universal constant.

Also it’s reasonable to assume that the nids adapt to what’s available andnif it’s DNA in our galaxy then that’s what they use and it becomes part of them.

There are plenty of arguments on this line. The GSC were forward scouting by the nids but how did they know enough about Milky Way species to be able to take over minds? You know, they just can

Tyran wrote:While it is debatable if Tyranids can eat Necrons (at the very least they do eat metal), Tyranids definitely attack and destroy tomb worlds so it is the kind of difference that doesn't really matters much.

As for Tyranids having DNA, that's a combination of GW not knowing science and "DNA" being a catch all layman term for all kinds of genetic material.

Or at least that is how I try to reconcile it.

That's what I'm guessing. Most people know very little about genetics. I've always assumed DNA being ubiquitous in the Milky Way is that Old Ones spread life everywhere.

Crispy78 wrote:I can't imagine there are many biochemistry degrees amongst GW's writers.

Or even a person who can do basic research.

mrFickle wrote:We have no real idea about how alien life will manifest inside or outside of our own galaxy. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for GW to make DNA a universal constant.

Also it’s reasonable to assume that the nids adapt to what’s available andnif it’s DNA in our galaxy then that’s what they use and it becomes part of them.

There are plenty of arguments on this line. The GSC were forward scouting by the nids but how did they know enough about Milky Way species to be able to take over minds? You know, they just can

As stated I think they just use DNA as to not confuse the layman. To the tyranids it would be like Chinese, they can see DNA is a molecule, but without being told what it is (and how to pronounce it) they can't use it.

Aeldari having a quadruple helix makes it even more impossible as there is a thing called finite space and electrostatic repulsion (pushing the south ends of magnets together) and it wouldn't be able to bend.

Don't forget whatever basic research they do has to be filtered through the fact that it was likely established in the pre-internet era and in the very early eras. So a lot of the lore and elements were likely set on much simpler understandings, a highschool level understanding and at least 20-30 odd years ago.

So well well behind research and actual medical understanding.

It’s also just…shorthand.

What is that sword made out of metal? Well, I could go into depth about the exact metallurgic composition. Or just say “metal”.

What is the cellular information thing? Just call it DNA, because anyone can grasp “oh the bit wot contains the instructions”.

Also, and I know this is almost a cheap shot? Don’t worry too much about what we can do today. 1,000 years ago, it was firmly believed disease was caused by humours being out of balance, miasma, demons etc. We’re only one well researched breakthrough away from whole new liens of science.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s also just…shorthand.

What is that sword made out of metal? Well, I could go into depth about the exact metallurgic composition. Or just say “metal”.

What is the cellular information thing? Just call it DNA, because anyone can grasp “oh the bit wot contains the instructions”.

Also, and I know this is almost a cheap shot? Don’t worry too much about what we can do today. 1,000 years ago, it was firmly believed disease was caused by humours being out of balance, miasma, demons etc. We’re only one well researched breakthrough away from whole new liens of science.

I'll just have to force myself to grit my teeth and look the other way when GW gets the science wrong. Which will be tough because I'm one of those guys who, "Well actually...".

40k is low when it comes to scientific accuracy but so is Star Wars, Halo or pretty much any mainstream Sci Fi. Very few people get even basic physics rights.

 NorthernXY wrote:

Aeldari having a quadruple helix makes it even more impossible as there is a thing called finite space and electrostatic repulsion (pushing the south ends of magnets together) and it wouldn't be able to bend.

GW has traditionally been horrible at anything involving biology. I chalk the above from the book Xenology to just narrative shorthand because they were trying to make everything Eldar complicated, so they thought if humans have a double helix, then Eldar should have more. I also facepalmed at that statement but I also grit my teeth at how in that same book they seemed to confuse "pulmonary" to refer to the heart when it actually refers to the lungs. In the end, just accept that GW generally writes bad science and especially bad biology.

However I would not write off the ability for Tyranids to figure out how to decode and use this galaxy's DNA even if native Tyranids originally used something else. The Hive Mind is intelligent even if individual organisms might not be, and its opponents constantly underestimate it by thinking it no more than an unthinking animal, usually to their detriment. The whole theme of Tyranids is "Life finds a way", especially if there is a god-level psychic entity guiding an entire mobile ecosystem of such scale.

Considering Genestealers are a thing, the Hive Mind being able to use the local's DNA is a given.

 NorthernXY wrote:
I'll just have to force myself to grit my teeth and look the other way when GW gets the science wrong. Which will be tough because I'm one of those guys who, "Well actually...".

Consider it an opportunity for personal growth.

Iracundus wrote:

 NorthernXY wrote:

Aeldari having a quadruple helix makes it even more impossible as there is a thing called finite space and electrostatic repulsion (pushing the south ends of magnets together) and it wouldn't be able to bend.

GW has traditionally been horrible at anything involving biology. I chalk the above from the book Xenology to just narrative shorthand because they were trying to make everything Eldar complicated, so they thought if humans have a double helix, then Eldar should have more. I also facepalmed at that statement but I also grit my teeth at how in that same book they seemed to confuse "pulmonary" to refer to the heart when it actually refers to the lungs. In the end, just accept that GW generally writes bad science and especially bad biology.

However I would not write off the ability for Tyranids to figure out how to decode and use this galaxy's DNA even if native Tyranids originally used something else. The Hive Mind is intelligent even if individual organisms might not be, and its opponents constantly underestimate it by thinking it no more than an unthinking animal, usually to their detriment. The whole theme of Tyranids is "Life finds a way", especially if there is a god-level psychic entity guiding an entire mobile ecosystem of such scale.

GW also has a built-in pass for inaccuracy, because the setting is one of not just ignorance, but incompetence. Everyone is an unreliable narrator. Some simply lack our god-like knowledge and scope, and so can only relate things that happened in their presence. Some are working from myth and legend rather than historical fact. Some are outright liars, or happy to lie when needed.

NorthernXY wrote:

As stated I think they just use DNA as to not confuse the layman. To the tyranids it would be like Chinese, they can see DNA is a molecule, but without being told what it is (and how to pronounce it) they can't use it.

Aeldari having a quadruple helix makes it even more impossible as there is a thing called finite space and electrostatic repulsion (pushing the south ends of magnets together) and it wouldn't be able to bend.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:It’s also just…shorthand.

What is that sword made out of metal? Well, I could go into depth about the exact metallurgic composition. Or just say “metal”.

What is the cellular information thing? Just call it DNA, because anyone can grasp “oh the bit wot contains the instructions”.

Also, and I know this is almost a cheap shot? Don’t worry too much about what we can do today. 1,000 years ago, it was firmly believed disease was caused by humours being out of balance, miasma, demons etc. We’re only one well researched breakthrough away from whole new liens of science.

I mean, it is definitely the case that DNA is being used as shorthand for genetic material. Look at the quote I posted above (reposted here for convenience):

Haighus wrote:
Relevant snippet:

The vast majority of Tyranid genetic material is not DNA, but DNA analogues (I.E. molecules performing the same function of carrying data), many of which are completely different and unknown to the adept processing the sample in that quote. It specifically notes that the intellect required to fashion such a genetic Frankenstein's monster must be vast.

Re. the eldar genetic material- it is also not DNA, but a vaguely similar analogue that is literally psychic. Our biochemical science cannot explain that in the same way we cannot explain a shuriken cannon or a plasma gun.

I'm pretty sure that, at least in the old days of fluff, the Tyranids were definitely labeled as extra-galactic in origin and called to the our galaxy by the psychic flash of Slaneesh's birth and the Astronomicon. It's just taken a while for them to get here given the distance. That might've been retconned in the time I was away but 'Im fairly certain that was the story.

 Emperors Grace wrote:
I'm pretty sure that, at least in the old days of fluff, the Tyranids were definitely labeled as extra-galactic in origin and called to the our galaxy by the psychic flash of Slaneesh's birth and the Astronomicon. It's just taken a while for them to get here given the distance. That might've been retconned in the time I was away but 'Im fairly certain that was the story.

If that was the case it has been retconned. What called the Tyranids to our galaxy was the battle of Sotha.

During crusade Ultramarines were fighting on a world in their system. There was a necron pylon (they didn't know it was a necron thing at the time) The destroyed this pylon and it sent a physic blast through the galaxy and beyond. Causing the nids to investigate. They arrived at the site of Sotha to investigate and found biological matter. They then moved on the Maccrage and that battle ensued there and the rest is history.

So technically the tyranids are Guillimans fault.