Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

No. I prefer the metal models. Detail over genericness and options. The SM captain kit is imo pretty bland, but it works for SM who do not have many overlapping or dynamic parts.

Fiend wrote:

Munch Munch! wrote:

What's new today wrote: "With limited time to produce variant models, the trophy racks and helmets were made as separate pieces that would fit all the bodies, adding some variation and a little poseability".

Anybody find it funny that even though they had 12 years to redesign the whole range, they still say they had limited time?

Yeah, are they implying they've just been procrastinating the update?

Anyways, was anyone else hoping they'd make the HQs (i.e. the Archon) a super multi-part plastic kit a la Space Marine Commander? Maybe that's just the SM love...

I do find it rather amusing that they say they had limited time, even if you factor in all the other ranges they've done since DE.

On the topic of HQ's, I'm not surprised that they didn't go the multi-part plastic route. Nearly all HQ's are still metal for the most part, as far as I can tell, and if any army were going to get a kit like that sometime soon, I'd be inclined to say it'd be a plastic Ork Warboss/Big Mek kit, since it's one of the most popular armies these days. (I would not object to a kit like that at all.) Either that or a multi-part IG command team, with options for various Guard units. That being said, I'll gladly take the metal models, as I feel they look far better when painted.

The Archons are metal, but can easily be converted with all the DE plastic kits. Jes Goodwin outlined this in today's 'What's New Today?'.

I really like the new dark eldar. Need some for my =I=-Munda-DE-Slave Hunter/-Pirate-Gang. And, I think, they have a lot conversion material.

Arctik_Firangi - I just have one question, I'm able to wait for leaks/info/the real codex for the rest.

Any way to make Reavers troops or scoring? I've been dying for a DE jetbike army for years now.

@Arctik_Firangi I'd be happy if you could get as complete a list as possible of the unit entries in the army. Just their names would be cool, although I won't complain if you get more info.

...limited time. Limited time.

A DECADE ISN'T LONG ENOUGH TO PRODUCE VARIANT MODELS!

I'm gonna go hit something. lol

His whole life and focus wasn't just DE during that whole decade - the time might span a decade, but the actual time measured is, I bet, considerably less. Think of all the things Jes and company have done in between, after all.

BrassScorpion wrote:

It was 'Mystery Science Theater 3000: The Movie'. "Our chair technology is light years ahead of yours."

Hooray, another MSTie!

Make that another. Oh, and watch out for snakes

On a note that's on topic, these models just look awesome. Hoping on getting away with just converting my existing vehicles with sails that I buy from some bitz website. I actually like the DE Warrior models from the last edition, so long as you only have the helmeted heads. Wyches looked like garbage, Warp Beasts were typical of other similar models of the day, vehicles and Talos all looked cool to me. It still astonishes me that they never even made all the models for the current DE Codex.

consider this another person wanting to know more about the reaver jetbikes and whether or not they are troops/scoring/even useful..

Red Corsair wrote:Actually yes considering I have been playing since 40k was first released... As soon as the wraith lord gained a toughness value over an armor rating our play group toyed with the difference and the associated point costs, (we also tested the difference if the marine dread had a T value over armor)

Ok, just to save yourself some effort, next time I ask something like "And I assume you know this due to years of extensive playtesting", just answer "No". It'll be quicker and I'll be wasting less of your time.

Red Corsair wrote:...so when I said your argument was stupid, its because it was, maybe you should try play testing yourself before you make such silly claims.

You know when 4th Ed came out? Yeah? Well since then - and I really do mean that, since then - we've been playing all Walkers with T values. 4(5) for Sentinels and War Walkers, T8 for Dreads/Chaos Dreads/Ork Dreads/Wraithlords, and so on. We meshed their rules with Monstrous Creatures, making them their own singular category. Works really well. For years now we've been doing that. We've worked, refined and changed and playtested those rules for years. They work perfectly. Great fun too.

So I'll just continue laughing at you, because you're clueless, and think that calling my argument "stupid" makes yours any less idiotic.

Red Corsair wrote:If walkers gain T values then heck... why not tanks too...while we are at it lets just nerf the game down to chess...

Yay! Slippery slope fallacy wrapped in a red-herring. Try again.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:...so when I said your argument was stupid, its because it was, maybe you should try play testing yourself before you make such silly claims.

You know when 4th Ed came out? Yeah? Well since then - and I really do mean that, since then - we've been playing all Walkers with T values. 4(5) for Sentinels and War Walkers, T8 for Dreads/Chaos Dreads/Ork Dreads/Wraithlords, and so on. We meshed their rules with Monstrous Creatures, making them their own singular category. Works really well. For years now we've been doing that. We've worked, refined and changed and playtested those rules for years. They work perfectly. Great fun too.

So I'll just continue laughing at you, because you're clueless, and think that calling my argument "stupid" makes yours any less idiotic.

But doesn't that remove the preclusion that there are armor values for a reason? What's the point of taking an Ironclad over a regular dreadnought (a seismic hammer and assault launchers?)? Why does my Soul Grinder at 13 front AV have the same toughness as a Deff Dread (front 12? - I could be wrong there), or a regular dreadnought? A soul grinder costs more than a Deff Dread and the armor values are one reason for it. And rear armor is a representation of actually firing into the back of the vehicle - walkers, just like other vehicles, are armored more lightly in the rear and undercarriage as they are in the front or sides.

While I don't agree that your idea or the way your gaming group plays it is 'stupid' (in fact, I think it's interesting that you're playing it that way), I don't agree it's in the best interest of the unit type (walkers) and vehicles as a whole. I think the walker rules work pretty well and making them have a toughness and mixing their rules with monstrous creatures changes the game in a fundamental way - whether good or bad (depending on the point of view).

Arctik_Firangi wrote:I'll be able to give more specific information (FOC stuff, etc) when I sneak another look tomorrow - for now I'm relying on my shaky memory to dredge up information that I was honestly a bit too drunk to appreciate with anything but excitement and wonder.

I reefuse to answer questions regarding whether or not the army is 'OP'. The codex is written by Phil Kelly so go figure.

There's a S7 re-roll wound weapon that sounded nastily cool... the concept was that the first charge sucked the heat out of the area, followed by a percussive charge that shatters the presumably frozen target.

There are definitely two varieties of Talos - and the standard Talos is pretty much the same as in the old book. I can't quite recall points.

I'll have to get back to you on exactly how Pain Tokens work. I'm pretty sure only the unit that collects the tokens are affected, but yes, it starts with Feel No Pain. I'll have to verify the army-wide buffs from subsequent tokens.

Feel free to keep posting questions and I'll answer what I can.

Im interested in hellions, the new, larger groteques, and the new fighter aparently in heavey support. Anything you can do to glance at rules/ describe them, that will be great.

Arctik_Firangi wrote:I'll be able to give more specific information (FOC stuff, etc) when I sneak another look tomorrow - for now I'm relying on my shaky memory to dredge up information that I was honestly a bit too drunk to appreciate with anything but excitement and wonder.

I reefuse to answer questions regarding whether or not the army is 'OP'. The codex is written by Phil Kelly so go figure.

There's a S7 re-roll wound weapon that sounded nastily cool... the concept was that the first charge sucked the heat out of the area, followed by a percussive charge that shatters the presumably frozen target.

There are definitely two varieties of Talos - and the standard Talos is pretty much the same as in the old book. I can't quite recall points.

I'll have to get back to you on exactly how Pain Tokens work. I'm pretty sure only the unit that collects the tokens are affected, but yes, it starts with Feel No Pain. I'll have to verify the army-wide buffs from subsequent tokens.

Feel free to keep posting questions and I'll answer what I can.

How have hellions changed?

Also, what is this bit about "Ex Wife"?

puma713 wrote:But doesn't that remove the preclusion that there are armor values for a reason? What's the point of taking an Ironclad over a regular dreadnought (a seismic hammer and assault launchers?)? Why does my Soul Grinder at 13 front AV have the same toughness as a Deff Dread (front 12? - I could be wrong there), or a regular dreadnought? A soul grinder costs more than a Deff Dread and the armor values are one reason for it. And rear armor is a representation of actually firing into the back of the vehicle - walkers, just like other vehicles, are armored more lightly in the rear and undercarriage as they are in the front or sides.

Because it's not as simple as that. We didn't just make all Walkers either T4(5) or T8. There are differences in wounds, armour saves and so on. For instance the Chaos Dread (which has the same stats as the Marine Dread, and roughly the same stats as the Ork Dread, minus some WS or Init here and there) is T8 W3 Sv3+. The Defiler sits at T8 W4 Sv2+. Makes a world of difference.

I understand that you could make everything have a Toughness value (like vehicles), but we found that unifying the rules for MC's and Walkers made life easier, whilst tanks and actual vehicles (as opposed to big creatures or robot creatures) was more fun.

So how do you deal with Damage? One of my complaints about the Wraithlord was that it took three decent hits to kill it, and until it was down, it remained at full effectiveness?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:Actually yes considering I have been playing since 40k was first released... As soon as the wraith lord gained a toughness value over an armor rating our play group toyed with the difference and the associated point costs, (we also tested the difference if the marine dread had a T value over armor)

Ok, just to save yourself some effort, next time I ask something like "And I assume you know this due to years of extensive playtesting", just answer "No". It'll be quicker and I'll be wasting less of your time.

Red Corsair wrote:...so when I said your argument was stupid, its because it was, maybe you should try play testing yourself before you make such silly claims.

You know when 4th Ed came out? Yeah? Well since then - and I really do mean that, since then - we've been playing all Walkers with T values. 4(5) for Sentinels and War Walkers, T8 for Dreads/Chaos Dreads/Ork Dreads/Wraithlords, and so on. We meshed their rules with Monstrous Creatures, making them their own singular category. Works really well. For years now we've been doing that. We've worked, refined and changed and playtested those rules for years. They work perfectly. Great fun too.

So I'll just continue laughing at you, because you're clueless, and think that calling my argument "stupid" makes yours any less idiotic.

Red Corsair wrote:If walkers gain T values then heck... why not tanks too...while we are at it lets just nerf the game down to chess...

Yay! Slippery slope fallacy wrapped in a red-herring. Try again.

You know, people at my FLGS think I'm nuts, but I think posts like these are why I like Dakka so much.

A limited damage chart. The chance to kill one in a single shot is there, it's just difficult.

Of course, taken out of context the what I said above is quite meaningless. We have our own vehicle damage charts as well, where glancing hits really are glancing hits (eg. 1 on our glancing chart is 'no effect', 2 is 'shaken on a 4+', 6 is 'roll on the penetrating chart').

We have very different vehicle rules. The basis is the same, but it's truly the most different of our sections.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Scottywan82 wrote:You know, people at my FLGS think I'm nuts, but I think posts like these are why I like Dakka so much.

I know! What was I thinking! I even have a grammatical error where I said "yours any less idiotic".

Silly me!

This is everything that I've seen posted supposedly from the codex compiled together from varies sources. Take it for what you will!


General Remarks/Rules
3 kind of armies with this book: Kabalyte, Wych Cult and Haemunculus army. But units are strong enough to make most combinations competitive as well. No point costs yet, as the Codex only had the main entry pages. But preview copies of the Codex should be instore in 2-3 weeks.

Universial rules
Night vision rule army wide (= acute senses?)
Strength through pain (mostly for Wych Cult units): After destroying non-vehicle unit, DE unit gets one pain token (1+ tokens means unit gets FNP, 2+ tokens means army gets Furious Charge, 3+ tokens means army gets fearless). Maximum is 3. Seems to buff all units with this rule simultaniously!
Combat drugs: One roll for for every unit with combat drugs before the game (all get the same).
Shadow Field in., 12“ assault not.
3-5 new units ,no old ones dropped. New units seem to be: New Archon bodyguard, new man-sized Haemunculi construct, new beast for beastmaster, Venom transport and something else.
Splinter weaponry makes a wound in a 4+ (normal poison weapon).
Dark Matter spam is gone with a more realistic allocation of heavy/special weapons mainly based on squad size. Similarly for reavers.
Web portals are still in.


HQ

Asdrubal Vect (SC not on his Ravager).

His Ex-Wife

Lelith Hesperax

Drazhar

Archon
WS7, BS7, +1 BS, +1WS, +1A, +1LD compared to previous edition, can take Blaster (18“ range).
If he kills and enemy MC/SC in close combat, he doubles his Strength to 6. If he kills another one, he doubles his Strength to 10.
Can have bodyguard retinue (not Incubi anymore).

Wych Lord

Haemunculi


Troops
Warriors (also in an elite version, upgrade names: Kabalite warrior, Synabite, Kabalite Trueborn, Dracon)
Stats as before. Splinter Rifle rapid fire, no plasma grenades or Splinter pistols.
Have strength through pain rule.

Wyches (also in an elite version, upgrade names: Hekatrix, Hekatrix Bloodbride, Syren)
Stats as before. 6+ armour save, 4+ inv against cc attacks. Upgrades with special close combat weapons.
Their weapon options are:
-1A to enemy in combat and base contact (to a minimum of 1), Hydra Gauntlets: +d6 attacks for 2 CCWS rather than +1A (Yes - really!) or Chain-of-blades weapon gives +2A, as well as re-rolls to hit and to wound.
Have strength through pain rule.


Elite
Incubi
T3, S3, 2 attacks but lose Tormentor Helm, with a 3+ save, can be upgraded with an Exarch (one option „preferred enemy“).
Have Klaives (2 handed powerweapon +1 strength). The klaive gives the unit to roll again (only one time) the 6 to wound.
Their squad leader (WS5, 3 Attacks) has a weapon that either gives him +2 S or +2 attacks (2 single handed weapons), and gives each member of the squad another attack on a roll of 6 to hit (no limit)
Have hand flamers like BA. Can chose an IC as preferred enemy. Klaivex has some more rules, one similar to Old One eyes but not as good as blood angels blood talons.

Mandrakes
Have some kind of shooting attack that gets stronger with every kill they make, but not strength from pain rule.

Harlequins
As in Eldar Codex. No Solitaire.

Grotesques
Bigger with Ogryn stats. Dont have strength through pain rule.

Other Haemunculi Construct
New. Man-sized.

Beastmaster
Beastmasters can take different kinds of beasts.


Fast Attack
Hellions

Reaver Jetbike
Can turbo boost 36", S3, T4, 5+ save, -1 to save and -1 to strength compared to previous edition. Jetbike gives +1 to save and +1 to Toughness (included in the profile).
They can perform a "fly-by" attack on units they fly past WITHOUT getting into CC. There were several upgrades for reaver jetbikes that inflict different numbers of S3/4/6 hits on units when doing their 'fly by' attack.
Can take Melter Blaster (S8 with Melter AND lance special rule)
Have strength through pain rule.
Blade under jetbike causes pinning test when wounding.

Heavy Support
Ravager
Fast, skimmer, open-topped, AV 11 11 10, can fire all three dark lances at cruising speed

Talos
In a standard and lighter version.

Scourges
Seem to get some kind of haywire grenade launcher.

2 new units in Heavy Support:
razorwing
Something completely new


Transports
Raider
Fast, skimmer, open-topped, AV 10 10 10
More expensive, many upgrades, a.o. +2D6 movement and 5+ Invulnerability save
has a Dark Lance

Venom
Formerly in Harlequin list (capacity 6)

warmonger wrote:This is everything that I've seen posted supposedly from the codex compiled together from varies sources. Take it for what you will!


General Remarks/Rules
3 kind of armies with this book: Kabalyte, Wych Cult and Haemunculus army. But units are strong enough to make most combinations competitive as well. No point costs yet, as the Codex only had the main entry pages. But preview copies of the Codex should be instore in 2-3 weeks.

Universial rules
Night vision rule army wide (= acute senses?)
Strength through pain (mostly for Wych Cult units): After destroying non-vehicle unit, DE unit gets one pain token (1+ tokens means unit gets FNP, 2+ tokens means army gets Furious Charge, 3+ tokens means army gets fearless). Maximum is 3. Seems to buff all units with this rule simultaniously!
Combat drugs: One roll for for every unit with combat drugs before the game (all get the same).
Shadow Field in., 12“ assault not.
3-5 new units ,no old ones dropped. New units seem to be: New Archon bodyguard, new man-sized Haemunculi construct, new beast for beastmaster, Venom transport and something else.
Splinter weaponry makes a wound in a 4+ (normal poison weapon).
Dark Matter spam is gone with a more realistic allocation of heavy/special weapons mainly based on squad size. Similarly for reavers.
Web portals are still in.


HQ

Asdrubal Vect (SC not on his Ravager).

His Ex-Wife

Lelith Hesperax

Drazhar

Archon
WS7, BS7, +1 BS, +1WS, +1A, +1LD compared to previous edition, can take Blaster (18“ range).
If he kills and enemy MC/SC in close combat, he doubles his Strength to 6. If he kills another one, he doubles his Strength to 10.
Can have bodyguard retinue (not Incubi anymore).

Wych Lord

Haemunculi


Troops
Warriors (also in an elite version, upgrade names: Kabalite warrior, Synabite, Kabalite Trueborn, Dracon)
Stats as before. Splinter Rifle rapid fire, no plasma grenades or Splinter pistols.
Have strength through pain rule.

Wyches (also in an elite version, upgrade names: Hekatrix, Hekatrix Bloodbride, Syren)
Stats as before. 6+ armour save, 4+ inv against cc attacks. Upgrades with special close combat weapons.
Their weapon options are:
-1A to enemy in combat and base contact (to a minimum of 1), Hydra Gauntlets: +d6 attacks for 2 CCWS rather than +1A (Yes - really!) or Chain-of-blades weapon gives +2A, as well as re-rolls to hit and to wound.
Have strength through pain rule.


Elite
Incubi
T3, S3, 2 attacks but lose Tormentor Helm, with a 3+ save, can be upgraded with an Exarch (one option „preferred enemy“).
Have Klaives (2 handed powerweapon +1 strength). The klaive gives the unit to roll again (only one time) the 6 to wound.
Their squad leader (WS5, 3 Attacks) has a weapon that either gives him +2 S or +2 attacks (2 single handed weapons), and gives each member of the squad another attack on a roll of 6 to hit (no limit)
Have hand flamers like BA. Can chose an IC as preferred enemy. Klaivex has some more rules, one similar to Old One eyes but not as good as blood angels blood talons.

Mandrakes
Have some kind of shooting attack that gets stronger with every kill they make, but not strength from pain rule.

Harlequins
As in Eldar Codex. No Solitaire.

Grotesques
Bigger with Ogryn stats. Dont have strength through pain rule.

Other Haemunculi Construct
New. Man-sized.

Beastmaster
Beastmasters can take different kinds of beasts.


Fast Attack
Hellions

Reaver Jetbike
Can turbo boost 36", S3, T4, 5+ save, -1 to save and -1 to strength compared to previous edition. Jetbike gives +1 to save and +1 to Toughness (included in the profile).
They can perform a "fly-by" attack on units they fly past WITHOUT getting into CC. There were several upgrades for reaver jetbikes that inflict different numbers of S3/4/6 hits on units when doing their 'fly by' attack.
Can take Melter Blaster (S8 with Melter AND lance special rule)
Have strength through pain rule.
Blade under jetbike causes pinning test when wounding.

Heavy Support
Ravager
Fast, skimmer, open-topped, AV 11 11 10, can fire all three dark lances at cruising speed

Talos
In a standard and lighter version.

Scourges
Seem to get some kind of haywire grenade launcher.

2 new units in Heavy Support:
razorwing
Something completely new


Transports
Raider
Fast, skimmer, open-topped, AV 10 10 10
More expensive, many upgrades, a.o. +2D6 movement and 5+ Invulnerability save
has a Dark Lance

Venom
Formerly in Harlequin list (capacity 6)

I'm pretty sure that there's more info in the OP...

Seen it. A few pages back if i'm not mistaken.

Edit: Shown here too – http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319496.page

WAITAMINUTE

Incubi have hand flamers???

Leggy wrote:WAITAMINUTE

Incubi have hand flamers???

Isn't this obviously obvious?

wuestenfux wrote:

Leggy wrote:WAITAMINUTE

Incubi have hand flamers???

Isn't this obviously obvious?

Incubi didn't have flamers before
I can't see any flamer-like parts on the models
It's the first time i've seen it mentioned in a rumour compilation
No-one has discussed incubi with flamers in any of the threads i've read (and i'm excited for this release, so i've read a lot!)

So I'm gonna have to go with No. No it is not obvious.

Its been mentioned as an Incubi upgrade more than once in several different locations, not our fault you didn't read that until now.

Flamers in a DE army?
Must be a recent technological achievement.

DE always had the Haemy flamers with variable AP - far superior to the pitiful imperial flamers.

Thor665 wrote:DE always had the Haemy flamers with variable AP - far superior to the pitiful imperial flamers.

I know, but nobody in the DE army had conventional flamers.

I'm very disappointed with the metal miniatures personally. While few armies have a plastic HQ, the level of detail in plastic minis is not so underwhelming compared to their metal counterparts to be a legitimate complaint these days.

But if I had a choice between an HQ in metal or Incubi, I'd certainly choose the HQ.

But then to think we may very well see a metal Talos again? I thought we would have atleast moved away from the whole "models that double as lethal weapons" era of GW.

As for the codex questions, did they have a complete codex you can review, or just a summary sheet for the most part?

Do you think you could dig into the background any? Specifically the Incubi, as it's really bugging me how they've moved the Incubi was from the 'evil striking scorpions' they were in the past. Curious if their lore is still suggesting they're evil striking scorpions.

Some rules questions I'd love to find out are some details on the 'light' haemonculi unit. Are they a troop so the codex can really be turned into a Kabal, Cult, or whatever the Haemonculi belong to. Do they have any fun, unique rules or do they function more like Plague Marines and have stats/points to mimic them.

Anything you can give us about Grotesques would also be great news.

Some information on what the Lord's retinue actually is would be nice too as there was some speculation earlier in the thread that they were an entirely new unit?

Some info on the scourges would be great. Specifically jetpack vs jumppack.

Confirmation on the lance weaponry (S8/Ap1? S8 Ap2? S6/Ap1) etc etc as I don't recall seeing anything concrete yet.

Details on the venom also please. Is the point of 6 troop capacity because it has more armor? Or is it a lighter craft.

Could you try to describe what the new talos looks like? Is it much the same? More walker/wraithlord looking?

It was all going well until I read that Raiders were more expensive!!! MORE EXPENSIVE!!!???

That's a massive dislike from me. =/

Anyone else's thoughts on more expensive transports?

Oshova