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Spado wrote:

Xirax wrote:
Hey guys,
Can anyone of you see any potent in a 3-5man company vet squads with jump packs, storm bolters and chainswords. I tried a 4man squad (84p) companying my two 3man plasma vets as a cheap vanguard and actually I was stunned how effective they were agaisnt meq. Just one game, but this 84p squad did more wounds than my rapid firing 3man plasma jump vets, although latters have a storm shield. Didn't have armored targets... So had to go against enemy dev squads..

21p, 4 shots at 12" and 3 attacks in combat. In a shooty game of 40k I'm not sure anymore should I bring these or DC with ccw&boltguns. Rough compare, but anyways what do you think, potent point wise?

To me the only real elite slot option that has always mananed to do his job in all games I played so far despite my absolutely garbage record (2W-12L) are company veterans with jump pack with plasmagun and either ss or chainsword. I back them up with a captain to reroll these ones because I always supercharge! You dont even need to drop 9" from enemy, you can still sit at 12" and unleash some nice damage onto basically anything. 20 plasma shots can annhilate hordes and do some pretty damage to vehicles as well. In a 100 power level game I always bring 2 5 men units and a captain.

Yeah, I can see that being good, I just worry about building such specialized squads right now with our Codex coming in the future. Vanilla Marines lost a fair amount of options in their Codex, and I can only imagine that we will too if there isn't an out of the box miniature for that option.

I've been really happy with using the following:

The Sanguinor (6" +1A Bubble)
Chaplain (Reroll failed hits in Fight Phase)
Brother Corbulo (+1 S, on to hit rolls of 6 you generate another Attack)

with Vanguard Vets (Twin Lightning Claws)

Hear me out.....I know its pricey on points but I think its worth it. Most opponents don't see it coming and catches them off guard.

So I've been using Vanguard Vets, with the above mentioned bubbles, it gets super bloody. So, Vanguard 2A base, +1 for twin lightning claws, +1 from the sanguinor, so now your rocking S5 4As, rerolling failed hits, extra hits on 6s, and rerolling failed wounds. Don't forget to reroll your additional attacks. Often times I'm getting all MY base attacks and sometime more. Mathhammer says on average (not considering my additional attacks) my 10 man unit gets 29-36 wounds and a -2 AP.

Replace Chaplain with Astrath and use his "once per battle" ability......you now go to 32-39 wounds.

I tried to get a SM/BA librarian or Mephiston for +1A but it was already getting pricey in points.

Doubling the attacks for Vanguard make them awesome.

In essence, you could apply it to death company but your getting one more attack but NOT rerolls to wounds and I find it not worth it, IMHO.

I picked up some twin assault cannons for assbacks, and I'm working on this list as a start:



I've got a Mephiston model on the way and making a new captain sans jump pack, and plan to evolve towards this list:

Derek4real wrote:
I've been really happy with using the following:

The Sanguinor (6" +1A Bubble)
Chaplain (Reroll failed hits in Fight Phase)
Brother Corbulo (+1 S, on to hit rolls of 6 you generate another Attack)

with Vanguard Vets (Twin Lightning Claws)

Hear me out.....I know its pricey on points but I think its worth it. Most opponents don't see it coming and catches them off guard.

So I've been using Vanguard Vets, with the above mentioned bubbles, it gets super bloody. So, Vanguard 2A base, +1 for twin lightning claws, +1 from the sanguinor, so now your rocking S5 4As, rerolling failed hits, extra hits on 6s, and rerolling failed wounds. Don't forget to reroll your additional attacks. Often times I'm getting all MY base attacks and sometime more. Mathhammer says on average (not considering my additional attacks) my 10 man unit gets 29-36 wounds and a -2 AP.

Replace Chaplain with Astrath and use his "once per battle" ability......you now go to 32-39 wounds.

I tried to get a SM/BA librarian or Mephiston for +1A but it was already getting pricey in points.

Doubling the attacks for Vanguard make them awesome.

In essence, you could apply it to death company but your getting one more attack but NOT rerolls to wounds and I find it not worth it, IMHO.

If you have one 10 model unit of vanguard vets replace them with five units of company vets. Its a 2 model unit, same number of models (10), same points. But you get more sergeants, more attacks, for free. Remove one claw and replace it with a combibolter for 2 pts. You lose one attack, but you get four shots per model if you are within 12". The loss of attacks in CC is compensated by the additional sarges (almost) and you save 10 points.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

Spado wrote:

Xirax wrote:
Hey guys,
Can anyone of you see any potent in a 3-5man company vet squads with jump packs, storm bolters and chainswords. I tried a 4man squad (84p) companying my two 3man plasma vets as a cheap vanguard and actually I was stunned how effective they were agaisnt meq. Just one game, but this 84p squad did more wounds than my rapid firing 3man plasma jump vets, although latters have a storm shield. Didn't have armored targets... So had to go against enemy dev squads..

21p, 4 shots at 12" and 3 attacks in combat. In a shooty game of 40k I'm not sure anymore should I bring these or DC with ccw&boltguns. Rough compare, but anyways what do you think, potent point wise?

To me the only real elite slot option that has always mananed to do his job in all games I played so far despite my absolutely garbage record (2W-12L) are company veterans with jump pack with plasmagun and either ss or chainsword. I back them up with a captain to reroll these ones because I always supercharge! You dont even need to drop 9" from enemy, you can still sit at 12" and unleash some nice damage onto basically anything. 20 plasma shots can annhilate hordes and do some pretty damage to vehicles as well. In a 100 power level game I always bring 2 5 men units and a captain.

Yeah, I can see that being good, I just worry about building such specialized squads right now with our Codex coming in the future. Vanilla Marines lost a fair amount of options in their Codex, and I can only imagine that we will too if there isn't an out of the box miniature for that option.

I am totally on board with this tactic, I've been backing those plasma vets up with Inceptors with Assault bolters inside that captain bubble as well. I do give the vet sgt a power axe.

@ NH Gunsmith: it doesnt really matter as GW stated that one can use any release they'll be doing during the whole 8th edition and index imperium 1 is one of them so if something change concerning wargear for these company veterans I'll simply get back to the index

Spado wrote:
@ NH Gunsmith: it doesnt really matter as GW stated that one can use any release they'll be doing during the whole 8th edition and index imperium 1 is one of them so if something change concerning wargear for these company veterans I'll simply get back to the index

Very true, I am probably still going to wait before committing to a build like that though. I really just want to bring two books to the table, the BRB and my Codex.

You have to use the most recent rules. If the codex blood angels comes out, and veterans get nerfed, you cant go back to the index.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

p5freak wrote:

Derek4real wrote:
I've been really happy with using the following:

The Sanguinor (6" +1A Bubble)
Chaplain (Reroll failed hits in Fight Phase)
Brother Corbulo (+1 S, on to hit rolls of 6 you generate another Attack)

with Vanguard Vets (Twin Lightning Claws)

Hear me out.....I know its pricey on points but I think its worth it. Most opponents don't see it coming and catches them off guard.

So I've been using Vanguard Vets, with the above mentioned bubbles, it gets super bloody. So, Vanguard 2A base, +1 for twin lightning claws, +1 from the sanguinor, so now your rocking S5 4As, rerolling failed hits, extra hits on 6s, and rerolling failed wounds. Don't forget to reroll your additional attacks. Often times I'm getting all MY base attacks and sometime more. Mathhammer says on average (not considering my additional attacks) my 10 man unit gets 29-36 wounds and a -2 AP.

Replace Chaplain with Astrath and use his "once per battle" ability......you now go to 32-39 wounds.

I tried to get a SM/BA librarian or Mephiston for +1A but it was already getting pricey in points.

Doubling the attacks for Vanguard make them awesome.

In essence, you could apply it to death company but your getting one more attack but NOT rerolls to wounds and I find it not worth it, IMHO.

If you have one 10 model unit of vanguard vets replace them with five units of company vets. Its a 2 model unit, same number of models (10), same points. But you get more sergeants, more attacks, for free. Remove one claw and replace it with a combibolter for 2 pts. You lose one attack, but you get four shots per model if you are within 12". The loss of attacks in CC is compensated by the additional sarges (almost) and you save 10 points.

This leaves you vulnerable to first blood. Never thought of giving that a try, ill look into that. And did you mean stormbolter?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

p5freak wrote:
You have to use the most recent rules. If the codex blood angels comes out, and veterans get nerfed, you cant go back to the index.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

This is correct. If there is something that is NOT in the Codex AND is in the Index, you can use that item in the index to add to your army. Some space marine characters on Bikes did not make it in the Codex, and GW has given some clarification on this matter.

p5freak wrote:
You have to use the most recent rules. If the codex blood angels comes out, and veterans get nerfed, you cant go back to the index.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

Unless there's no option for it in the current/updated codex that does exist in the Index (older model options), at which point you then use the entry in the Index for that model.

At least that's how I understood it.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Derek4real wrote:


This leaves you vulnerable to first blood. Never thought of giving that a try, ill look into that. And did you mean stormbolter?

Only if you dont put them in a transport. Five 2 men units of CVs in a rhino count as one unit for deployment. Stormbolter and combibolter are the same. CVs cannot use stormbolters, according to the rules. But, doesnt really matter, its the same weapon, just a different name.

So, quick question on Baal Predators. Other then fluff reasons, what reason do we have to run a Baal Pred over a Twin Assault Cannon Razorback?

Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't Yvraine and Cawl on their way to Baal?

I know people have speculated the resurrection of Sanguinius however Yvraine didn't exactly resurrect Guiliman, his soul was still in his body. Sanguinius's soul isn't in his body. So unless his soul can be located I cant see it happening.

However it is possible that the sanguinor is an embodiment of Sanguinius's soul, the sanguinor only shows in time of desperation. Maybe, just maybe...

I could be wrong about the above, i'm not up to scratch with my lore just from what i've heard.

I am open minded in the resurrection of our primarch as long as its an extremely well written story. If they want to bring him back just for the sake of it, put him in the horus heresy and be done with it.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
So, quick question on Baal Predators. Other then fluff reasons, what reason do we have to run a Baal Pred over a Twin Assault Cannon Razorback?

None. All BA stuff in the index is overpriced.

p5freak wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
So, quick question on Baal Predators. Other then fluff reasons, what reason do we have to run a Baal Pred over a Twin Assault Cannon Razorback?

None. All BA stuff in the index is overpriced.

That's kind of what I figured, getting ready to finish assembling a Razorback, and considered making it a Baal Predator. Just couldn't justify the Pred over a Razorback, since it also has a transport capacity.

Well, I discovered just how great our Sanguinary Priests are... When I managed to make some insane charge rolls with my Assault Marines, a couple of Tactical Squads and two Rhinos, and was able to fully surround both a Land Raider and Land Raider Crusader in the same charge phase that were a few inches apart from each other.

Yeah, a Raider still has a 2+ save. But between the nearby Chaplain, a Librarian for the extra attacks, and the Sanguinary Priest making it so my guys are Strength 5, I was able to force through wounds by making tons of attacks. It was game over at that point though and he conceded on the top of turn 2 since one Raider was at 5 wounds, and the other had 4 Inferno Pistols and some Powerfists in melee with it.

My Twin Assault Cannon Razorbacks, Dread, and two Devastator Squads were also staring down the scraps of his two Scout squads and anti-air tank that were too far away from his Raiders to be of any use.

Probably the cheapest feeling win I have ever had, but a win is a win I guess.

Now imagine doing that with terminators like I've been doing, and you no longer feel cheap. You feel awesome XD

It felt great I am not going to lie, both Raiders were filled with troops. The Crusader had 7 Hammernators, a Librarian and a Lieutenant, the other one had 9 decked out Vanguard Vets and a Captain. Once he realized what I did, and what was about to happen he quit. To make matters worse, I had stolen the initiative that game too.

The last two games have given me a real good feeling about how the army is starting to play as I tweak it. Shoot, I can't wait to see what our rules are. The game before this was my final game in our weekly tournament last Saturday against Ad Mech, and even though I lost that game due to time, if we would have gotten to play Turn 5 it would have been game over. My Dreadnought went on a Rampage, tearing apart three Kastellan Robots, Cawl, and 2 5 man Vanguard Squads. I still had about half of my army, and he had 2 dudes left on an objective. He slow player me, but not on purpose, he hasn't run a lot of his units yet and was getting used to their new rules. It didn't how the tournament did it's scoring was a bit goofy.

It was 10 points for the main objective (Big Guns Never Tire)

6 points for the secondary (Control the center of the board)

And 1 point for the tertiary objectives (Can't remeber what they were)

I lost by one point since he killed both of my Devastator Squads, got First Blood, and he only had 1 heavy support choice and had an objective.

I had Slay the Warlord, Linebreaker, "King of the Hill", and an objective. The rest of my army had his two dudes circled and was about to kill them though.

The power difference between Codex and Index armies is pretty noticeable.

Yeah, the difference is immense-- and, annoyingly, a lot of people who use the codex haven't even noticed how huge a gap there is. I really hope Chapter Approved narrows the gap.

Whew, we've fallen to the second page of threads. We gotta up our post numbers! With what I have seen from the new Astra Whatsitsnuts Codex, I have actually decided to keep my Knights of Blood as my main army. Call me a sadist or glutton for punishment, but I am enjoying my Marines more than my Guard right now. Each win feels much more gratifying.

What other knowledge have you guys been able to pick up in the quest for victory with your Blood Angels?

Played two games against the new IG book, one win, one loss.

The biggest problem I had during the loss was their command punisher (49 shots, even with 9 made at -1 to hit, is utterly brutal and my list lacks in long-ranged anti-tank; my missile launchers lived up to the miss in their name).

I managed to win fairly handily on the second game by playing objectives, my death company keeping their tank tied up and otherwise I just ground through their infantry as they tried to knock my scouts off of the objectives I deployed on to.

@Melissa have you tried running any infernos as of yet? Personally I'm unconvinced, but inferno in assault against a punisher sounds pretty brutal.

I have no immediate plans for expanding my list further outside of getting a terminator chaplain and terminator librarian.

That'll have to wait for the codex.

Latest findings: Don't run an all-dreadnought army. It is not good.

Besides that, same as before. Stormravens and other shooty things are great, it's just inferior to run them as BA given the lack of codex bonuses. My experience continues to suggest that unique BA units are almost all overpriced and not unique enough to warrant a different playstyle compared to SM.

That's not to say that I won't try to make it work! My latest project involves a second Stormraven and more ass termies. Death Company seem to get diminishing returns with greater numbers given that extra damage isn't important enough and the distraction effect/deep strike threat is roughly the same, a smaller contingent could have a place.

Playing 3k points tonight, bringing 6 assassins and a bunch of other dakka. Up against 1500pts of guard and 1500pts of death guard. should be an interesting game.

Has anyone been using the Warlord traits and stratagems in the space marine codex?

My mates have said that as they're for Adeptus astartes the BA/DA/SW can use them as well. Same for the strategy cards as there non-specific. Same goes for the non-specific relics?

They say the same for the points as well. I.e. the space marine index has been fully replaced by the codex. We now go to the SM codex for points.

I, being the BA player of the group, remain unconvinced. Although we could do with the help. What do you all think?

kryczek wrote:
Has anyone been using the Warlord traits and stratagems in the space marine codex?

My mates have said that as they're for Adeptus astartes the BA/DA/SW can use them as well. Same for the strategy cards as there non-specific. Same goes for the non-specific relics?

They say the same for the points as well. I.e. the space marine index has been fully replaced by the codex. We now go to the SM codex for points.

I, being the BA player of the group, remain unconvinced. Although we could do with the help. What do you all think?

If my reading is correct we cannot use the codex as we will be getting a specific one ourselves. Index army for the time being.

GodsCronik wrote:

If my reading is correct we cannot use the codex as we will be getting a specific one ourselves. Index army for the time being.

Thats right. No SM codex for us. We have to wait for our codex. If you want to play with the SM codex you can always make your own red space marine chapter, and use your BA as normal SM.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Whew, we've fallen to the second page of threads. We gotta up our post numbers! With what I have seen from the new Astra Whatsitsnuts Codex, I have actually decided to keep my Knights of Blood as my main army. Call me a sadist or glutton for punishment, but I am enjoying my Marines more than my Guard right now. Each win feels much more gratifying.

What other knowledge have you guys been able to pick up in the quest for victory with your Blood Angels?

There's not that much to say right now. There just isn't.

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [25 PL, 437pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Select Chapter: Blood Angels

+ HQ [5 PL, 86pts] +

Sanguinary Priest [5 PL, 86pts]: Boltgun, Chainsword, Jump Pack [1 PL, 17pts]

+ Elites [20 PL, 351pts] +

Primaris Ancient [4 PL, 69pts]

Sanguinary Guard [10 PL, 176pts]
. Sanguinary Guard [42pts]: Encarmine sword [13pts], Plasma pistol [7pts]
. Sanguinary Guard [45pts]: Encarmine axe [16pts], Plasma pistol [7pts]
. Sanguinary Guard [44pts]: Death mask [2pts], Encarmine sword [13pts], Plasma pistol [7pts]
. Sanguinary Guard [45pts]: Encarmine axe [16pts], Plasma pistol [7pts]

Sanguinary Guard Ancient [6 PL, 106pts]: Angelus boltgun [9pts], Encarmine sword [13pts]

++ Total: [25 PL, 437pts] ++

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [64 PL, 1323pts] ++

+ HQ [18 PL, 337pts] +

Chief Librarian Mephiston [8 PL, 145pts]

Librarian Dreadnought [10 PL, 192pts]: Furioso fist [40pts], Storm bolter [2pts]

+ Heavy Support [31 PL, 664pts] +

Devastator Squad [7 PL, 172pts]: Armorium Cherub [5pts]
. Space Marine [38pts]: Lascannon [25pts]
. Space Marine [38pts]: Lascannon [25pts]
. Space Marine [38pts]: Lascannon [25pts]
. Space Marine [38pts]: Lascannon [25pts]
. Space Marine Sergeant [15pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]

Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: 4x Hellblaster [72pts], Plasma incinerator [75pts]
. Hellblaster Sergeant [18pts]: Bolt pistol

Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: 4x Hellblaster [72pts], Plasma incinerator [75pts]
. Hellblaster Sergeant [18pts]: Bolt pistol

Vindicator [8 PL, 162pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]

+ Flyer [15 PL, 322pts] +

Stormraven Gunship [15 PL, 322pts]: 2x Stormstrike missile launcher [42pts], Twin lascannon [50pts], Typhoon missile launcher [50pts]
. Two hurricane bolters [8pts]: 2x Hurricane bolter [8pts]

++ Total: [64 PL, 1323pts] ++

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [28 PL, 502pts] ++

+ HQ [5 PL, 85pts] +

Captain [5 PL, 85pts]: Chainsword, Combi-flamer [11pts]

+ Fast Attack [23 PL, 417pts] +

Attack Bike Squad [3 PL, 57pts]
. Attack Bike [3 PL, 57pts]: Heavy bolter [10pts], Twin boltgun [2pts]

Inceptor Squad [10 PL, 180pts]: 2x Inceptor [60pts], Inceptor Sergeant [30pts]
. Two assault bolters [90pts]: 2x Assault bolter [90pts]

Inceptor Squad [10 PL, 180pts]: 2x Inceptor [60pts], Inceptor Sergeant [30pts]
. Two assault bolters [90pts]: 2x Assault bolter [90pts]

++ Total: [28 PL, 502pts] ++

++ Unbound Army (Faction) (Imperium - Officio Assassinorum) [27 PL, 475pts] ++

+ Elites [27 PL, 475pts] +

Culexus Assassin [5 PL, 85pts]

Eversor Assassin [4 PL, 70pts]

Eversor Assassin [4 PL, 70pts]

Eversor Assassin [4 PL, 70pts]

Vindicare Assassin [5 PL, 90pts]

Vindicare Assassin [5 PL, 90pts]

++ Total: [27 PL, 475pts] ++

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [24 PL, 459pts] ++

+ HQ [9 PL, 159pts] +

Captain [5 PL, 85pts]: Chainsword, Combi-flamer [11pts]

Primaris Lieutenants [4 PL, 74pts]
. Primaris Lieutenant [4 PL, 74pts]: Master-crafted auto bolt rifle [4pts]

+ Troops [15 PL, 300pts] +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor [80pts], Intercessor Sergeant [20pts]

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor [80pts], Intercessor Sergeant [20pts]

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor [80pts], Intercessor Sergeant [20pts]

++ Total: [24 PL, 459pts] ++


my 3k (actually 3200pts) list, they gave me an additional 200pts because they both have codexes currently. also my assassins are in a vanguard detachment but battle scribe didnt let me move things around that way. C&C welcome