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bananathug wrote: 2x primarius teams w/ a couple aggressors (2-3 depending on point availability)
1x team w/ storm bolters (deepstriking, these guys are sooo good)
1x team w/ stalker rifles
Xiphon
I don't see anything that allows this. Also, battlescribe does not allow it.
Lose the Stalker Bolt Rifles. They're terrible.
Stalker bolt rifles aren't meant to deepstrike. Spend 200 points for 2 units that have 36" range ap -2 guns that wound on 2's. How are they terrible? They're good back line support.
That's 5 shots for 100 points. That's terrible. If you want something similar to camp in your backfield, Vets have 2 shots at the price of only having one wound. In cover that's worth it though. 10 shots with 5 wounds > 5 shots with 10 wounds, especially when you can't guarantee that the Intercessors will use each wound separately instead of taking a Plasma hit.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: That's 5 shots for 100 points. That's terrible. If you want something similar to camp in your backfield, Vets have 2 shots at the price of only having one wound. In cover that's worth it though. 10 shots with 5 wounds > 5 shots with 10 wounds, especially when you can't guarantee that the Intercessors will use each wound separately instead of taking a Plasma hit.
I like that thinking.
My issue is finding enough storm bolters to kit everyone out.
Digging up some from the terminators I had made for close combat so the guns are free to cut off at the wrist.
Do not forget the free chainswords.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: That's 5 shots for 100 points. That's terrible. If you want something similar to camp in your backfield, Vets have 2 shots at the price of only having one wound. In cover that's worth it though. 10 shots with 5 wounds > 5 shots with 10 wounds, especially when you can't guarantee that the Intercessors will use each wound separately instead of taking a Plasma hit.
I like that thinking.
My issue is finding enough storm bolters to kit everyone out.
Digging up some from the terminators I had made for close combat so the guns are free to cut off at the wrist.
Do not forget the free chainswords.
I'm just using regular Bolters, as my opponents know I never use Tactical Marines. So all my Mk3 dudes are Counts As Deathwatch with Storm Bolters and my Volkite Culverins are Counts As Frag Cannons instead of Grav Cannons. There isn't a point to me using Sternguard anymore, so my opponents are more than understanding and don't care as long as I continue to keep trying and make the rest of my force instead of always borrowing their models haha!
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
bananathug wrote: 2x primarius teams w/ a couple aggressors (2-3 depending on point availability)
1x team w/ storm bolters (deepstriking, these guys are sooo good)
1x team w/ stalker rifles
Xiphon
I don't see anything that allows this. Also, battlescribe does not allow it.
Lose the Stalker Bolt Rifles. They're terrible.
Stalker bolt rifles aren't meant to deepstrike. Spend 200 points for 2 units that have 36" range ap -2 guns that wound on 2's. How are they terrible? They're good back line support.
It's 220 points for two units.
And they're often considered a bad investment because they're just a single immobile shot. Bolt rifles are cheaper, provide greater mobility, and more importantly can double tap threats that try to disrupt your backline with deep strike or high mobility units.
They'll fit a very specific role, for instance if you want a unit sitting in the back stapled to an objective pumping out hellfire rounds from 36'' with AP -2 while never moving for any reason ever. They'll be more expensive than the tactically more flexible bolt rifles, but you can make it work. For me, units trying to disrupt my backfield really show how woefully undergunned the stalkers can be.
I think I'd like to take normal Veteran Kill Team with Stalker Pattern Boltgun for that role. Heavy 2 is better than Heavy 1 and 1 point better APimho.
bananathug wrote: 2x primarius teams w/ a couple aggressors (2-3 depending on point availability)
1x team w/ storm bolters (deepstriking, these guys are sooo good)
1x team w/ stalker rifles
Xiphon
I don't see anything that allows this. Also, battlescribe does not allow it.
Lose the Stalker Bolt Rifles. They're terrible.
Stalker bolt rifles aren't meant to deepstrike. Spend 200 points for 2 units that have 36" range ap -2 guns that wound on 2's. How are they terrible? They're good back line support.
It's 220 points for two units.
And they're often considered a bad investment because they're just a single immobile shot. Bolt rifles are cheaper, provide greater mobility, and more importantly can double tap threats that try to disrupt your backline with deep strike or high mobility units.
They'll fit a very specific role, for instance if you want a unit sitting in the back stapled to an objective pumping out hellfire rounds from 36'' with AP -2 while never moving for any reason ever. They'll be more expensive than the tactically more flexible bolt rifles, but you can make it work. For me, units trying to disrupt my backfield really show how woefully undergunned the stalkers can be.
I think I'd like to take normal Veteran Kill Team with Stalker Pattern Boltgun for that role. Heavy 2 is better than Heavy 1 and 1 point better APimho.
Throw a storm shield in for added durability. Stalkers are huge helps. They hold down the fort while everything else are in Corvus or deepstrike.
Hey everyone, am looking for some advice, am somewhat paralysed by choice! I'm looking to build an all rounders style list. Have got the choice from mostly unbuilt kits:
Watch master
Watch captain- built with storm bolter and xeno phase blade
Kill team cassius
6 vets built with storm bolters and storm shields, one with infernus bolter
10 more vets
5 vanguard vets
5 terminator - built with storm bolter and power sword sgt. 2 storm bolter and chainfist, 1 assault cannon and one cyclone.
4 bikers
10 intecessors
10 rievers
3 aggressors
Repulsor
2 blackstars, 1 built with assault cannons, hurricane bolter and rocket launchers
I think I'd like to take normal Veteran Kill Team with Stalker Pattern Boltgun for that role. Heavy 2 is better than Heavy 1 and 1 point better APimho.
Throw a storm shield in for added durability. Stalkers are huge helps. They hold down the fort while everything else are in Corvus or deepstrike.
That's a good unit to attach a biker/vanguard combat squad to that can break off and grab objectives while the snipers hold the fort. Cyclone terminator isn't a terrible call here either.
2x Lascannon Chaplain Dreadnoughts, 6-10 Hellblasters sprinkled into Fortis Kill teams, and a Storm Cannon/Claw Leviathan dreadnought a decent start for Anti-Vehicle?
I've been thinking of running 3x Blood Angel Smash Captains as well. Also a bare bones Scion Battalion could hold some sacrificial plasma/meltas? Not sure if I want to run them as pure screening without special weapons or suicide drops with melta/plasma.
You’re probably better off running them barebones en masse. That’s an awful lot of fancy weapons and characters with not much in the way of bodies to stop assaults and smites.
Hey guys, I've been lurking for while now at some Deathwatch tactics, and it really seems that the codex lacks a bit of punch against armoured targets, so what do you suggest as a at-unit for deathwatch (possible allies also)?
I also made a list for deathwatch, with Astra Militarum allies (referring to previous posts, I think that Deathwatch army is really meant to be used as a part of soup-list).
Total 1994 (18cp, -1 for extra relic, -3 for teleport)
Any thoughts or suggestions? Strategy is to deploy astra battalions as two firebases at opposite corners, and deep strike deathwatch at the enemy turn 2.
https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/ Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500)
I would lose the Heavy Thunder Hammer. It's a terrible weapon as is because anything using it only has two attacks. Why our HQ can't get it is beyond me.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
So looking for some help on a DW list. Doing a team tournament, both players have a 1000 points to use. My brother is going with Imperial Knights, Paladin, 2 Warglaives and 1 Helverin.
I'm wanting to do DW as support for them.
I have a Corvus, WM, Artemis, Cassius Squad, 15 Veterans, plus can get whatever I need to fill out the points. Have thought about adding another Knight, either a Gallant or Warden, or some Assassins.
Thoughts or ideas, I know DW are expensive points wise for what you get. I like the fluff so not worried about winning as having fun with whatever games we play.
The aggressors are the shooty variant. Inceptor I am unsure the best way to run it between plasma or bolters, bolters are cheaper so I will probably end up doing that. The whole unit is T5, which is a nice bonus.
The am battalion is just the usual scum 195 point command point battery.
For the Custodes vs. BA will depend on criticism I get here. I want some amount of melee options. Custodes provide that with durability if I take a patrol with bikers. Alternatively I can take BA smash captains with scouts and devastators for some higher power shooting and mortal wound spam via stratagems.
The aggressors are the shooty variant. Inceptor I am unsure the best way to run it between plasma or bolters, bolters are cheaper so I will probably end up doing that. The whole unit is T5, which is a nice bonus.
The am battalion is just the usual scum 195 point command point battery.
For the Custodes vs. BA will depend on criticism I get here. I want some amount of melee options. Custodes provide that with durability if I take a patrol with bikers. Alternatively I can take BA smash captains with scouts and devastators for some higher power shooting and mortal wound spam via stratagems.
I'd give those Intercessors with the Aggressors the auto bolt rifle to make sure they can just advance literally everywhere.
I'd then consider the BA battalion for a couple Smashf*cker captains and some scouts. The custodes bikes are good at shooting the same gak your DW are, so you'll just be adding to your strengths rather than plugging holes. The BA with captains, devastators, and scouts will give you high damage melee options, early deployment board control, ranged AT threats, and a bigger quotient of edgy teenage vampire angst.
What melee weapons do you give to your Veterans if you don't know what you are playing against?
I am leaning towards Axes but wanted to get other opinions as well.
Chainswords. They're free and my vets don't want to be in combat for long anyway, so I personally value the extra attack over killyness.
Pretty much this. If you concern combat, have one guy being the Black Shield, and give him a Thurnder Hammer, annnd a chainsword as well. So he can choose either 3A with S8 AP-3, or 4A with S4 AP-
So m'brothers, how many of you are now looking longingly at a Knight SH Detachment as a natural foil for your DW army?
They seem to do an awful lot for us... Generate 3 cp; big distractions to let our more vulnerable units off the hook for the first one or two turns; massive CC threat; Helverins are cheap and extremely gunny; keep our drops low to try and get that +1 on the initiative roll; bring heavy weapons, something we're missing a little at present.
I've just finished painting up my Warden/Gallant in DW colours, and will probably take a couple of warglaives or helverins soon enough. Anyway, thought some of you might be interested in seeing the chap:
grouchoben wrote: So m'brothers, how many of you are now looking longingly at a Knight SH Detachment as a natural foil for your DW army?
They seem to do an awful lot for us... Generate 3 cp; big distractions to let our more vulnerable units off the hook for the first one or two turns; massive CC threat; Helverins are cheap and extremely gunny; keep our drops low to try and get that +1 on the initiative roll; bring heavy weapons, something we're missing a little at present.
I've just finished painting up my Warden/Gallant in DW colours, and will probably take a couple of warglaives or helverins soon enough. Anyway, thought some of you might be interested in seeing the chap:
Looks ace, bud. I am also considering a Knight detachment. I've been playing with AM as my allied choice for nearly everything Imperium since their codex landed, so I'm pretty bored with them at this point. Knights will feel a whole lot different I think.
I've been running this guy in my lists for a few months:
Spoiler:
He worked out okay, but generally was a little too squishy and didn't have the best output due to the lack of rerolls. Post DW codex, I've dropped him for a Leviathan. The Knight codex piqued my curiosity again, but the CP drain didn't quite seem worth it, but I started building out a Knight lance that I wouldn't necessarily run with my DW.
Post FAQ though, its back on the to try list. Being able to add a couple of Helvirens to the above generates enough additional CP to pay for the Relic Gatling and a 4+ Invul plus a free Ion rotation. I'm not sure its better than my Leviathan, but I'm definitely interested in finding out.
On the subject - can anyone make an argument for taking armigers instead of helverins with their DW? I think a Gallant and 2 basic armigers is the cheapest SHD knights can field, and they let you take a specialised CC house like Mortan or Terryn or such, but Helverins just seem such a good fit for my lists that I think I'm going to have to go with the herd...
Love the Crusader btw, Lunarsol!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/25 19:57:50
I assume you mean Warglaives? Helverins are Armigers afterall.
I think the Warglaive is better than people give it credit for. It gets a bad rep because it got playtime to find it underwhelming immediately prior to getting buffed in the codex while also overshadowed by new shinies. It hits hard and the new melee profile is a nice boost. If you want your little guys to get between your big guy and the enemy, the Warglaive is easily the better option. The Helverin actually wants to stand in the back, hiding behind its big brother.
And thanks! Looking forward to adding more like him. Currently working on the Helverins but after that I'll be painting up a pair from Renegade.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/25 20:49:47
Warglaives make great use of the unit's speed, and are pretty neutral in terms of what you have them do, which is great. But who's gonna say 'no' to that 8d3 D3 Helverin dakka for 250pts?
I guess I could try making a blustuff mold of the warglaive loadout from a friend.
A List I've been building up has consisted of a Valiant and two CC Armigers. The question is the debatebetween what Battalion I want to build for the DW side of the list. A Corvus going in deep to pick off characters with a Kill Team plus Null Zone Librarian to shut down anything with an invuln. plus two stalker boltgun teams that stayed in the back or a watch master with two units of intercessors mixed with hellblasters deepstriking in to wipe out most things off the board with two stalker teams to sit in the back with a watch captain or grab the librarian with a jump pack. I'm conflicted. What do you guys think?
So I played a 1k tournament yesterday at my FLGS with a pure deathwatch army. The tournament was 4 rds of varying mission and deployment types. I tabled my first 3 opponents but unfortunately had to leave before the final game on top table because of a family matter. However several guys there who saw me play said I would have beat the guy who won. I was the only undefeated player going into final rd. He was a custodes player who had to play a guy I had tabled easily. My first opponent was Chaos emperors children, followed by dark angels, with the third having been ultramarines. Would liked to have fought a Xenos player to use their specific stratagems.
Here is my list below:
Primaris Watch Captain [6 PL, 98pts]: Power sword, Tome of the Ectoclades
. Master-crafted auto bolt rifle & bolt pistol: Bolt Pistol, Master-crafted Auto bolt rifle
Watch Master [7 PL, 130pts]: Castellan of the Black Vault, The Beacon Angelis, Warlord
+ Troops +
Intercessors [15 PL, 290pts] . Aggressor . . Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers
. Aggressor . . Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers
. Aggressor . . Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers
. Aggressor . . Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers
. Aggressor . . Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets/Fragstorm Grenade Launcher: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets, Fragstorm Grenade Launchers
. Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol
. Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol
. Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol
. Intercessor: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol
. Intercessor Sergeant: Auto Bolt Rifle, Bolt Pistol
Automatically Appended Next Post: During the tournament I thought of a straetegy for redeploying a nasty killteam from elsewhere on the battlefield and into the frag cannons sweet spot range. I call it the Deathwatch sling shot. So yesterday I Deepstruck an Aquila killteam with 3 frag cannons,1 infernus heavy bolter, assault cannon termie and a couple bolters. They killed a predator on one side of opponent deployment zone. Next turn I move and advance my watchmaster up and then use the beacon to slingshot the kill team in front of him 6" and into range of another predator and some characters for the flamer profile.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/01 10:23:07
Has anyone tried running the primaris unit straight, rather then mixed squads with intercessors?
The one that caught my eye was reivers. Mixed they loose a lot of their deployment and mobility options. But as a solo squad, it seems you could just plonk down some special ammo love in some backfield location without having to burn a CP.
If you are willing to spend the CP you don’t need this, but it seems like DW are going to burn them fast, so being able to save a few might be worth it.
Inceptors might be worth it for some post deployment mobility.
With combat squads you can kinda get this, and still be troops. Loose out on the sarge though, who has to be an intercessor.
That tactic works even better when you put the Beacon Angelis on a TH/SS Jumppack Captain. You can use his ability to move 12" and jump over screens to your advantage.
Also, having a minimal bike squad with a Stormbolter/SS on the sergeant with a DW teleport homer makes for a second redeploy option for the veteran squad with terminator. Such a bike squad is great value in a DW army IMHO.
Grats on your good scoring!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/01 10:45:09
Fiery the angels fell; deep thunder rolled around their shores; burning with the fires of Orc.
Nevelon wrote: Has anyone tried running the primaris unit straight, rather then mixed squads with intercessors?
The one that caught my eye was reivers. Mixed they loose a lot of their deployment and mobility options. But as a solo squad, it seems you could just plonk down some special ammo love in some backfield location without having to burn a CP.
If you are willing to spend the CP you don’t need this, but it seems like DW are going to burn them fast, so being able to save a few might be worth it.
Inceptors might be worth it for some post deployment mobility.
With combat squads you can kinda get this, and still be troops. Loose out on the sarge though, who has to be an intercessor.
Hellblasters and Aggressors work better as solo squads with Dark Angels and Raven Guard respectively (with Raven Guard basically helping everyone and anyone), but I see merit behind Reivers. Their Heavy Bolt Pistols are easily one of the best weapons to use Special Ammo and their weight of attacks for the points is decent for bullying screen units.
Inceptors I see just for charging things that might charge you first, but I don't think you need to be Deathwatch for that. At minimum I did try Auto Bolt Rifles + a single Aggressor before I went camping this week and had some okay success. The speed was actually kinda noticeable.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
<snip>
...but I see merit behind Reivers. Their Heavy Bolt Pistols are easily one of the best weapons to use Special Ammo and their weight of attacks for the points is decent for bullying screen units.
My first thought was to go for the carbines. Twice the shots, twice the range. I figured that would be better then the -1 AP. Points are a little rough. 4 points vs. the free knife. Pistol range is still good for dropping in at 9”.
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
2k Points
Competition Index
Daemons: 5000+ points
CSM/Black Legion: 5000+ points
Deathwatch/Knights: 5000 points
