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That's a good idea; I agree. It's the same vein as getting a deredeo buddy.

The few times i've assaulted a repulsor, there was nothing left to fall back.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 grouchoben wrote:
@Mandragola plays two at GT level, and he's had a bit of success with them. I think 2 certainly helps, so it ain't crazy-sounding to me!

It just seems that running 1/3 of your list as two tanks with no invuln save at all is completely nuts. Repulsors cost so much that almost every Str 5 weapon in the game is cost effective against them.

Same goes for all those 3-7 flyer lists, yet we keep seeing the darn things. Must be something to bringing that much solid metal to the table.

You mean those lists with like 4 at minimum?

It's also the innate -1 to hit.

 Primark G wrote:
Leman Russes are hot garbage. All you have to do is charge them and they can't shoot next turn. Harlequins completely shut them down. They are not worth any points and pretty much just for casual play so you can make pew pew sounds.

I respectfully disagree in anything but top tier competitive play. Leman Russ Conquerors are an amazing unit and I read in many places people complaining about how solid of a unit the Russ is. It's cheap for how durable it is and not at all a horrible unit. When you bring 6+ with proper amounts of chaff you can't tie them all down.

I was just giving him a taste of his own medicine.

Was really hoping you'd stick to the ignoring and be done with it.

Your reasoning is never well thought out and you don't understand meta considerations at all.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bada%20bing%2C%20bada%20boom

depends on your local meta, but the games in this area, over past few months (with a few exceptions) folks have stoped takeing vehicles for the most part, the las-cannon spam is just insane. Repulsor is nice, but most of the time, mine is dead by end of turn 1, even I have stoped bringing any sort of vehicle, or even dreadnaught.
Nowadays i run an ultramarine primaris(mostly) infantry brigade
HQ= Primaris Captain, Librarian, Lieutenant
Troops= 6x intercessor squads (5)
Elites= 2x riever squads(5), 1 primaris Ancient
FA= 3x Inceptor Squads (3)
HS= it WAS 3x hellblaster squads,but they tended to get shot off the board by turn 1 majority of the time, recently ive used old school devestator squads with 2 lascannons, 1 missile launcher, 1 heavy bolter in each

dont get me wrong, hellblasters are nice, but are serious bullet magnets and lack the RANGE and punch of a lascannon

missile launcher/heavy bolter opend up the hellfire shell/flakk missile stratagemns, and now starting out with 15 command points makes these extremly viable options

because of the way the game has evolved in my local meta, ive also gone with nothing but assault bolters on the inceptors

I rate assault bolter inceptors. For their price, they put out some serious dakka.

My brigade list is posted a couple of pages back. How do you find 6 intercessor squads? I used 3 scouts/3 intercessor split to give me pockets to deep strike in and avoidance of the alpha strike.

I also love me some aggressors, so the cheaper scouts paid for upgrading those reivers and ancient to be gun buddies.

Of course, raven guard chapter tactics helped, but run and gun aggressors with ultras still do some work

I've finally had a couple of games with my primaris army. I need to take time to reflect on the games properly but I have made two observations so far.
1) auxiliary grenade launchers are over hyped. I just ran the math on them against the targets I thought everyone was using them for. 1 in 9 shots becomes a failed save on T7 3+. So, identical to the bolt rifle single shot prior to considering damage.
2) I need to put the objectives in the middle of the table because my army needs to move forward and push the enemy into their deployment zone. Hanging back in my own zone to hold objectives prevents me ever double tapping with all of my rapid fire guns.

For reference, I am using all infantry primaris crimson fists.
Allowing an enemy to stay far away from me is bad. I need to be in the middle.

S6 is decent right now. Your math being focused on t7 is skewing your conclusion. Run it against a custodes list or drukhari or knights (3 v. Common factions) and it has much better damage, for 1pt.

Circling back very quickly to the repulsor tank discussion, if you're all that bothered about it not having an invuln save, one could park a deredeo dreadnought near it.

Admitted it's more points and isn't a primaris only unit, but it can be handy. I'm looking at one in general for my primaris raven guard force, figuring a dread with similar stats to a redemptor dread isn't too bad a departure from the all primaris all the time theme. It shouldn't look out of place anyway.

Just got done reading this thread....(quite the read)

I'm curious about some of you vets out there about your thoughts on the Primaris Lieutenants. What's the usual limit for you for a 1500-2000 pt force? How do you use them?

Would maxing out a Supreme Command Detachment of Primaris LTs be a bit much?

Zustiur wrote:
I've finally had a couple of games with my primaris army. I need to take time to reflect on the games properly but I have made two observations so far.
1) auxiliary grenade launchers are over hyped. I just ran the math on them against the targets I thought everyone was using them for. 1 in 9 shots becomes a failed save on T7 3+. So, identical to the bolt rifle single shot prior to considering damage.
2) I need to put the objectives in the middle of the table because my army needs to move forward and push the enemy into their deployment zone. Hanging back in my own zone to hold objectives prevents me ever double tapping with all of my rapid fire guns.

For reference, I am using all infantry primaris crimson fists.
Allowing an enemy to stay far away from me is bad. I need to be in the middle.

Aux Grenade Launchers are just a point. It isn't overhyped at all. Just don't shoot the Krak at single wound targets and use the Frag on gaunt equivalents or daemon troops.

 grouchoben wrote:
S6 is decent right now. Your math being focused on t7 is skewing your conclusion. Run it against a custodes list or drukhari or knights (3 v. Common factions) and it has much better damage, for 1pt.

Very true. It's being skewed because I keep facing a mechanized list. If I fight drukhari things might be completely different. I'm sick of wave serpents.


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 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:
Just got done reading this thread....(quite the read)

I'm curious about some of you vets out there about your thoughts on the Primaris Lieutenants. What's the usual limit for you for a 1500-2000 pt force? How do you use them?

Would maxing out a Supreme Command Detachment of Primaris LTs be a bit much?

In my experience thus far, having 2 is more than I really need. They're not doing enough for me right now. Perhaps if they had stalker rifles, or if I ever got into combat I might feel differently.

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:
Just got done reading this thread....(quite the read)

I'm curious about some of you vets out there about your thoughts on the Primaris Lieutenants. What's the usual limit for you for a 1500-2000 pt force? How do you use them?

Would maxing out a Supreme Command Detachment of Primaris LTs be a bit much?

Primaris Lieutenants are massively overpriced. Compare to a standard Captain. For four points more, you get +1 BS, +1 Ld, 4+ invulnerable save, better aura and much better weapon options. It is ludicrous. Only reason to ever take a Lieutenat is that if you want to combine his aura with that of the Captain, or you need to put him into a Repulsor and absolutely cannot afford the 17 points for a Primaris Captain upgrade. This leads to a strange situation (from fluff perspective) where the army is more likely to have multiple Captains than multiple Lieutenants.

For the reasons pointed out above I would never take a Primaris LT if I was not really going pure Primaris 100%. The re-roll to wound aura is solid and does come up a lot so its a great tool to have, but the paying the extra 14 or so points on top of a standard LT is not worth it.

If you’re running repulsors then Primaris Lieutenants (and captains) are a decent option. They can deploy in the repulsors, thereby reducing your drop count. You’ll also tend to have a lot of stuff in their buff auras, once you count the tanks and whoever else was inside them at the start of the game.

Lieutenants are better in partnership with a special character, so that they can have a relic. A friend plays dark angels and runs Azrael, so his lieutenant has a great relic power sword. There isn’t really a great selection of weapons to give to a vanilla lieutenant unfortunately, though the 2+/3++ (once) armour is ok.

The downside is that so far none of the special characters are Primaris, meaning they don’t combo all that well with repulsors. That said, chapter master buffs are really good news for repulsors, and marke them extremely difficult to charge.

Has anyone considered using Primaris Rhinos? they're an HQ option...

 Corennus wrote:
Has anyone considered using Primaris Rhinos? they're an HQ option...

They have nothing to do with Primaris Marines though, it's a WHW exclusive command tank.

 Crimson wrote:

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:
Just got done reading this thread....(quite the read)

I'm curious about some of you vets out there about your thoughts on the Primaris Lieutenants. What's the usual limit for you for a 1500-2000 pt force? How do you use them?

Would maxing out a Supreme Command Detachment of Primaris LTs be a bit much?

Primaris Lieutenants are massively overpriced. Compare to a standard Captain. For four points more, you get +1 BS, +1 Ld, 4+ invulnerable save, better aura and much better weapon options. It is ludicrous. Only reason to ever take a Lieutenat is that if you want to combine his aura with that of the Captain, or you need to put him into a Repulsor and absolutely cannot afford the 17 points for a Primaris Captain upgrade. This leads to a strange situation (from fluff perspective) where the army is more likely to have multiple Captains than multiple Lieutenants.

Thats exactly why im bringing thjs up...from a fluff perspective. I've always been a fluff player and it just sounds to me that Robbie G is busting balls across the galaxy with his new Primaris boys. Probably surrounded by a trusty cohort of LTs doing his bidding. I was seriously considering building a "Hero" Ultramarine army like a Custodies force, but without the Golden Boys. Corny, but with character.

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:


Thats exactly why im bringing thjs up...from a fluff perspective. I've always been a fluff player and it just sounds to me that Robbie G is busting balls across the galaxy with his new Primaris boys. Probably surrounded by a trusty cohort of LTs doing his bidding. I was seriously considering building a "Hero" Ultramarine army like a Custodies force, but without the Golden Boys. Corny, but with character.

Well, you can do it, but it is probably massively suboptimal even in a casual setting. The point of Lt's is to buff other units, they gotta have those units to buff. As melee beatsticks they're really underwhelming, as GW refuses to give the primaris characters proper weapon options.

 Crimson wrote:

 Third_Age_of_Baggz wrote:
Just got done reading this thread....(quite the read)

I'm curious about some of you vets out there about your thoughts on the Primaris Lieutenants. What's the usual limit for you for a 1500-2000 pt force? How do you use them?

Would maxing out a Supreme Command Detachment of Primaris LTs be a bit much?

Primaris Lieutenants are massively overpriced. Compare to a standard Captain. For four points more, you get +1 BS, +1 Ld, 4+ invulnerable save, better aura and much better weapon options. It is ludicrous. Only reason to ever take a Lieutenat is that if you want to combine his aura with that of the Captain, or you need to put him into a Repulsor and absolutely cannot afford the 17 points for a Primaris Captain upgrade. This leads to a strange situation (from fluff perspective) where the army is more likely to have multiple Captains than multiple Lieutenants.

A supreme command detachment of lieutenants would be mad. The point of them is the buffs they hand out - not the damage they do, which is negligible. Plus it’s sometimes handy to have a character running around, in missions like the relic or ascension.

On the other hand, running a Primaris captain and lieutenant can provide a bubble of buffs not unlike Bobby G’s, for far fewer points. This allows you to spend more on guns. They also use up the two HQ slots of a battalion, usefully. My crimson fist primaris captain with fist of vengeance is a proper beatstick character, for only 106 points, and 180 once you add the LT. Between them they can buff an awful lot of things, especially since I started giving the captain the chapter master upgrade.

My favourite load-out was 2x5 rapid fire hellblasters in a repulsor, with 4 aggressors and my two characters in a second repulsor. All that stuff gets buffed by both auras, resulting in some pretty serious firepower.

On the other hand Bobby G costs 400 points and you still have to fill your HQ allowance, with characters whose buffs are somewhat superfluous.

 Corennus wrote:
Has anyone considered using Primaris Rhinos? they're an HQ option...

I use a primaris rhino with my imperial fists, the +1 to hit in the shooting phase is neat. Aggressors proccing bolter drill on a 5+ rerolling 1,2s is more hits than dice i own. Safe overcharging with hellblasters is sweet too.

Is anyone else finding it difficult to hug their deployment zone? It's probably an artefact of running all infantry, but I keep getting out ranged. And with nearly every model having rapid fire, I really need to be in the middle of the board to get within 15".

Zustiur wrote:
Is anyone else finding it difficult to hug their deployment zone? It's probably an artefact of running all infantry, but I keep getting out ranged. And with nearly every model having rapid fire, I really need to be in the middle of the board to get within 15".

Marines (primaris and otherwise) don't want to hold *all* the way back. They want to be within rapid fire range against shooting armies and just out of charge range against melee armies. Expect to do a lot of turn 1 walking forward followed by a couple turns of walking backwards to force your opponent to eat more shooting. The vehicles are en exception of course, but most of the non-dreadnoughts ones barely fit amongst the terrain anyway.

I feel like the Primaris LT can help buff the army a bit more if you run the Storm of Fire Warlord trait. Getting more 6s for even better AP is never a bad thing after all.

That said, it comes down to how concentrated your army is. If you're running a small bubble of some kind, then it's going to benefit you more to cram more stuff in there. If you only support a unit with re-rolls as needed, then cramming him into a list isn't as helpful.

That said, the other possible use for him would to be buffing Hellblasters to make them better at taking down high toughness targets. Especially good if you run Assault Plasma as S6 starts to struggle at higher toughnesses.

at 1750, I was running a gravis captain and primaris lt. It worked OK, but when i switched my 9 bolter inceptors to 6 plasma inceptors, I had spare points left over to make that lt a libby. I haven't regretted it yet.

So here is a question, one I'm sure is heard on every faction tactic thread ad nauseum, where do I go from here? I have both little starter kits, plus easy build Intercessor and Reiver kits and the big honkin Redemptor. This is how I've been running it for about 1000 points.

Grav Captain w/Burning Blade

Primaris Lieutenant w/ MC Stalker Rifle

7x Intercessors w/ Bolt Rifles

6x Reivers w/ HB-Pistols & CCBs

5x Helblasters w/ Plasma Incinerators

3x Inceptors w/ Assault Bolters

Redemptor w/ Onslaught Gatling Cannons, ofc!

I painted them gold and called them Ultramarine spec-ops. Basically the super secret chapter Gulliman uses when gak needs done and the UM name can't be tarnished, but UM godliness is still required. So I use the UM CT for them... I basically just castle my gunline with my reroll support and when the enemy closes I fall back and blast em. It's cheeky, frustrating and when the Grav Captain heroics in for a beatdown people hate me, but... it's not all that. How do I expand? Obviously the choices are limited since the line is so small but what are my best options? Should I get moar P-Marines or just use these guys as an allied detachment and build 1000 points of some other Imperium army?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also for what it's worth I feel like I get the best mileage out of the vanilla versions of the bolt rifle and plasma gun. The variants are kinda nice, like the Heavy 1 Stalker on the leiutenant who rarely moves is good, but the AP and rapid fire of the Bolt Rifle just seems like the all around best. At worst it negates cover and at best it drops termies to a 3+, not too shabby. Same goes for the plasma gun, the Heavy and assault versions are situationally good but the rapid fire is simply better against more targets.

Don't bother with The Burning Blade. At all. You have a Power Fist with that Master Crafted Sword. The Ultramarine relic for the 3++ or the 2+ armor would serve you better.

 SputnikDX wrote:
Has anyone tried the Repulsor? Has anyone actually used the model and done something besides look at it and go "too expensive" or "it'll just die?" Cuz I'm looking at it a little more closely - especially with Deathwatch and their (probable) relic rule that lets vehicles get Mission Tactics with their Tome of the Ectoclades - and this thing is sporting a stupid amount of firepower, as well as being able to carry mixed intercessors with Deathwatch. 5 Intercessors, 4 Hellblasters, 1 Librarian.

I'm looking at a loadout of twin lascannon, 18 S5 shots from the gatling cannons, 2D6+9-15 S4 shots from 3 storm bolters, 2 fragstorm launchers, and heavy stubber (with a nifty -1 AP), and a silly 2 S6 shots from the krakstorm launcher.

It's slow, but it just means footslogging HQs can keep it in their auras. What do you think?

I run 2 all dakka repulsors, 3 predators with autocannon and heavy bolters, Bobby G, Techmarine, 2 BA captains, 3 BA scouts. It is absolutely brutal. At ATC I couldn’t run the BA so took an Ultramarine smash Captain, 3 Scouts and a Thunderfire cannons. I scored tons of points all weekend. I was paired against 2 knight armies that weekend and killed 5/6 Knights. I faced one horde army and cleared the table of all but 2 small units. I faced an Eldar/DE army and left him with a raider in the corner of the board and a warlock.

The Bobby G rerolls on the dakka repulsors just put a ton of wounds on everything. Knights were losing 7-10 wounds each shooting phase from repulsor (max str 5 guns, no lascannon). Killshot on the predators made them a priority target, but the repulsor did all the work.

Keep in mind the repulsor flies and never gets shut down by tagging it in Assault. As a fly vehicle it can go up levels in ruins and avoid assaults by non fly units, non infantry units. Anything assaulting a repulsor is -2 to charge it. This is huge.

At 311pts the Repulsor is well worth the points, but only with Bobby G. There was a noticeable drop off in productivity whenever one strayed away from his reroll aura.