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I'm not sure that's entirely comparable. Lord of the Rings had unified designs to draw on from the beginning thanks to the movie license and model quality only started to drop off with the Hobbit when, I guess, GW considered the game effectively dead Like, just look at those faces. Poor Orlando!

Old World has a model range that has a wild mix of plastic models with varying sculpting and casting quality. Put Spearmen and Sea Guard next to each other, or Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings skeletons. Difference like day and night. Then there are obvious duds like making Tomb Guard match the old bobblehead skeletons instead of doing something sensible with them.

I don't think that if they want to bring back a game akin to the ranked mass combat that we know and possibly even love, they'll get away with as low an effort as they had to put into Middle Earth simply because half of Warhammer Fantasy got neglected for so long.

Eh I dont' think they can just bring back old sculpts because AoS is chock full of them already. Furthermore many of those sculpts are very old- older than all the Lord of the Rings line of models.

So not only are they mostly still for sale under another range (which are likely to get updates steadily over the coming years); but many of the old plastics and such really won't stand up well. Heck Bretonnia has some nice cavalry models, but he sculpts are clearly years behind the current crop of mounted characters and poses that GW is capable of making. Even accounting for rank and file poses there's a lot more that can be done. Just look at the new Ossiarch Deathriders, they aren't extreme sculpts, but they are very clearly in 5 very good poses of motion and could easily rank up. The only thing that really stops them is the tails sticking out the back (unless you stagger them); Make the base a few mm longer or adjust the tails to sweep left and right to avoid muzzles of the horse behind and you've got a rank and file in great poses.

Plus that's not even considering all the billowing quilted armour and plated armour and chain mail that GW can put on a full knight type model.

If you look at all the other games they've brought back GW has gone head on with new sculpts taking full advantage of the years of improvement in casting and sculpting that they've got. The old Warlord Titan is, honestly, whilst a great design, pitiful compared to the detail and design and even posing options with the brand new one. They are worlds apart.

More importantly, they want to make a profit. Which, for GW, can only be achieved by selling new kits. The whole thing is clearly aimed at people with nostalgia for the old world, so a customer group that is incredibly likely to have their old armies still. It'd make no sense to bring back kits people already have. AT didn't bring back Epic 40k models back either.

Cronch wrote:
More importantly, they want to make a profit. Which, for GW, can only be achieved by selling new kits. The whole thing is clearly aimed at people with nostalgia for the old world, so a customer group that is incredibly likely to have their old armies still. It'd make no sense to bring back kits people already have. AT didn't bring back Epic 40k models back either.

GW games have already seen a lot of new blood since 2015 and likely more by 2023.

Also, new plastic moulds are expensive. As this point, reusing those old ones is more or less pure profit.

They could literally re-release the Island of Blood/Spire of Dawn starter with different rules as a good first kit. All of those models hold up to modern standards.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
They could literally re-release the Island of Blood/Spire of Dawn starter with different rules as a good first kit. All of those models hold up to modern standards.

Also roll out Battle For Skull Pass as a separate set. Those starters, if GW still has the molds in house, are pure print money.

Lets not forget, that GW will have and uprageded factory capacity by the time the game hits. So there is no real reason t think that they will do resin armies.

 Arbitrator wrote:

Cronch wrote:
More importantly, they want to make a profit. Which, for GW, can only be achieved by selling new kits. The whole thing is clearly aimed at people with nostalgia for the old world, so a customer group that is incredibly likely to have their old armies still. It'd make no sense to bring back kits people already have. AT didn't bring back Epic 40k models back either.

GW games have already seen a lot of new blood since 2015 and likely more by 2023.

Also, new plastic moulds are expensive. As this point, reusing those old ones is more or less pure profit.

That implies that new blood will have a significant interest in a sidegame to the main fare, and also that GW kept the old moulds. They just finished pruning a lot of their Whfb kits from production, why would they go through the trouble of bringing them back into commission instead of keeping them running? Again, why risk people going for 2nd hand market when releasing new models has only advantages- old players might be tempted to buy new armies, especially if they do the sane thing and keep current scale so the really old 6/7th ed models look tiny, so people will be bothered into buying whole new armies to "fit", and no risk of 2nd hand market that gutted sales of WFB.

Cronch wrote:
More importantly, they want to make a profit. Which, for GW, can only be achieved by selling new kits. The whole thing is clearly aimed at people with nostalgia for the old world, so a customer group that is incredibly likely to have their old armies still. It'd make no sense to bring back kits people already have. AT didn't bring back Epic 40k models back either.

Also considering how they're trending toward lighter rules most of this development time is probably spent creating new models.

I disagree.

The Old World is, in theory, a relatively ‘shake and bake’ release.

The rules structure exists, and has done for nearly 40 years. And the base mechanics work very nicely.

The main flaw is that over the years, they expanded to service ever larger armies, in theory to match ever growing collections. Eventually, that raised the entry level to the point it was daunting for a newbie, and expensive to start a new army.

That’s relatively easy to fix. Certainly easier than starting entirely from scratch.

Rather, I expect the projected three years to be getting Army a Books developed, and possibly balanced together. Even if it’s largely an ‘Index’ type release ala 8th Ed 40k.

As for the models? You want the game to hit the ground running? Use the existing scale and existing kits. Because many still have their old armies in storage. Change that up, and you’ll upset quite a few peeps.

It’s also the most cost effective route. Use what you’ve got with a bit of spit and polish. Means you can focus whatever resources are allocated to update older kits, such as say, Empire Knights. A little something for each army to drive sales, and give returning players an excuse to drop some initial cash.

Or they may feel that the major appeal of the old world is the wealth of lore development, not a ruleset which was hardly loved (hero hammer, monster hammer, huge block unit hammer etc) and not really suited to a large scale 28mm game

so marry that up with the 8mm scale stuff they'll be doing for titanicus in 3 years time (hopefully)

and I do wonder if we'll see the old world setting being used for a 8mm (or smaller than 28mm anyway) scale game which is set up for large rank and fie units, actual maneuverers etc

new armies for everybody, new plastic small scale terrain, rules that work (hopefully), a way to tell bigger stories,

& clearly separated from AoS (there will always be pressure to pull the old armies back into AoS, and possibly AoS stuff into the old world from thrifty gamers who just want to battle and don't care much about the lore)

i'm interested to see which way they go

Why 8mm? GW has never done 8mm so why now? Why not 6mm(epic, AT) or 12mm(warmaster)?

How many scales GW needs

Seeing as it’s been pitched as “Horus Heresy but for Fantasy” there’s absolutely no way it’s not in the regular scale. 8mm is just wishlisting, and niche-beyond-niche wishlisting at that.

Clearly the game will feature currently stocked WHFB models that have never been repackaged with round bases, like Ironguts and Shadow Warriors.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Clearly the game will feature currently stocked WHFB models that have never been repackaged with round bases, like Ironguts and Shadow Warriors.

Why would GW hold onto stock for 3 years?

Most of those models were sold out of stock when GW shut down sale of them - they've likely nothing left barring some models in some local stores that never sent them back and the moulds in storage. Otherwise they wont' sit on stock for 3 years.

3 Years is a very long time to develop a rules set, esp as GW has a LOT of material on them already. It's a release pattern far more in tune with them developing new models with new moulds. Also for HH GW didn't just make rules, they released actual models dedicated to that line.

I read an interestng theory the other day with the idea it could be set during the End Times (Horus Heresy equivalent and all). It would give them a clean sweep to keep dead characters gone and those destined to be in AoS already sucked into the warp.

After all, we don't know how long it took for the world to be eaten by the warp. Could have taken centuries, a chance for running battles against the chaos forces, new characters to be created, factions that were enemies previously could now be forced together out of desperation and a new story could be told.

AT is 8mm if I recall. Anyway, I still don't see the answer to question "who will buy new models", if as people want, they just largely restart production of old moulds? Not from people with 2000 or 10000 points of models collected over years, which is what most of the fanbase that still wants TOW consists of.

tneva82 wrote:
Why 8mm? GW has never done 8mm so why now? Why not 6mm(epic, AT) or 12mm(warmaster)?

How many scales GW needs

The new adeptus titanicus and aeronautica imperialis are both 8mm scale. If GW decide to redo epic, it will likely be at 8mm as well.

I thought the old 15mm warmaster was a pretty good scale, and could look quite good.

They won’t just remake old stuff. It’ll be new stuff so they can sell you new stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Why 8mm? GW has never done 8mm so why now? Why not 6mm(epic, AT) or 12mm(warmaster)?

How many scales GW needs

The new adeptus titanicus and aeronautica imperialis are both 8mm scale. If GW decide to redo epic, it will likely be at 8mm as well.

I thought the old 15mm warmaster was a pretty good scale, and could look quite good.

We pretty much know this isn’t going to happen in any scale other than the usual, so seems pointless to speculate otherwise.

We don't know anything about it except the name at the moment. So assuming it is 32mm scale is also wishlisting at this point. Any discussion of it is wishlisting.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I read an interestng theory the other day with the idea it could be set during the End Times (Horus Heresy equivalent and all). It would give them a clean sweep to keep dead characters gone and those destined to be in AoS already sucked into the warp.

After all, we don't know how long it took for the world to be eaten by the warp. Could have taken centuries, a chance for running battles against the chaos forces, new characters to be created, factions that were enemies previously could now be forced together out of desperation and a new story could be told.

Why set it in the Old World at all, then?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I read an interestng theory the other day with the idea it could be set during the End Times (Horus Heresy equivalent and all). It would give them a clean sweep to keep dead characters gone and those destined to be in AoS already sucked into the warp.

After all, we don't know how long it took for the world to be eaten by the warp. Could have taken centuries, a chance for running battles against the chaos forces, new characters to be created, factions that were enemies previously could now be forced together out of desperation and a new story could be told.

Why set it in the Old World at all, then?

Because it would still be the old world. Just in a different story telling period.

Not if all the heroes are dead or missing, the world is falling apart like a Michael Bay movie, and the factions are desperate enough to act out of character. That sounds much more like a setting that could better fit in the Age of Sigmar.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
They won’t just remake old stuff. It’ll be new stuff so they can sell you new stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Why 8mm? GW has never done 8mm so why now? Why not 6mm(epic, AT) or 12mm(warmaster)?

How many scales GW needs

The new adeptus titanicus and aeronautica imperialis are both 8mm scale. If GW decide to redo epic, it will likely be at 8mm as well.

I thought the old 15mm warmaster was a pretty good scale, and could look quite good.

We pretty much know this isn’t going to happen in any scale other than the usual, so seems pointless to speculate otherwise.

I wasn’t really speculating so much as stating fact.

If it’s several years off, it could really be anything. All we know is it’s set in te old world and uses square bases. A reduction in scale might be good as it could allow people to reproduce battles of the scale they have played in the total war games.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Not if all the heroes are dead or missing, the world is falling apart like a Michael Bay movie, and the factions are desperate enough to act out of character. That sounds much more like a setting that could better fit in the Age of Sigmar.

Just a theory i read dude. The possibility to do something old world without necessarily repeating themselves.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Not if all the heroes are dead or missing, the world is falling apart like a Michael Bay movie, and the factions are desperate enough to act out of character. That sounds much more like a setting that could better fit in the Age of Sigmar.

Just a theory i read dude. The possibility to do something old world without necessarily repeating themselves.

But we want them to "repeat themselves". Or at least, everyone I've seen or spoken to who's interested in the idea of bringing back WHF in whatever form is. For a lot of us, the mere existence of AoS and WHFB no longer being actively developed wasn't actually the problem, the problem was the End Times, the problem was they purposefully tried to kill the WHF setting presumably to try and kill or convert the WHFB community, and worse still they did it with a shoddy, half-arsed cashgrab.

Folk seem to be hoping they don't even mention the End Times, using it as the entirety of the setting? It'd be dead on arrival for many - I'd wager most - WHF fans. And maybe GW are happy with that, maybe they think they can sell The Old World just to existing AoS players and entirely new hobbyists, but it seems like a really dumb theory to me because - just as with the square base thing - why pitch it as a nostalgia product if you're then going to turn out a product that actively pisses on people's fond memories?

I can't see them covering the End Times - it was just be pouring petrol on bad marketing. Instead I think eariler ideas such as them covering something like the War of the Beard would be neat.

Dipping into the history of the Old World would give them a chance to tell new stories; add depth to the original creation; create new heroes whilst all having quite a lot of freedom to do as they please in those ancient times.

It means they can roll out totally new models and even change some of the old design asthetics.


I can't see them just re-releasing the old models, they might for some; but I'd wager we'd see them focus on new models for a new market. Asides many of the Old World factions have old stuff that just shows its age against newer models by GW. Sure Tomb Kings and High Elves actually had some pretty modern stuff that was lost; but the majority of Old World factions were running around with quite old sculpts; some even still using metal quite extensivly within their range.


Plus in 3 years that's a lot more AoS armies that will get updates to those old sculpts (one hopes). It would be daft to on the one hand be retiring sculpts; only to open the other hand and bring them back when GW would already sell "superior" versions.

How many people would buy the old chaos Warrior models when GW releases the updated multi-part versions akin to the new start collecting set versions?

I have a high feeling that none of the old models are coming back. I don't see on what logical plane of existence GW would go back to that, especially since a good portion of moving to AOS was to get rid of generic fantasy models that could be obtained cheaper elsewhere.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Spoiler:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
They won’t just remake old stuff. It’ll be new stuff so they can sell you new stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Why 8mm? GW has never done 8mm so why now? Why not 6mm(epic, AT) or 12mm(warmaster)?

How many scales GW needs

The new adeptus titanicus and aeronautica imperialis are both 8mm scale. If GW decide to redo epic, it will likely be at 8mm as well.

I thought the old 15mm warmaster was a pretty good scale, and could look quite good.

We pretty much know this isn’t going to happen in any scale other than the usual, so seems pointless to speculate otherwise.

uses square bases.

Don't even know that, TBF. We know they used the image of a square base, but that could ultimately just be a visual shorthand.

The scale thing is wide open though, the 40K/HH analogy doesn't have to be perfect 1:1 match, it is nowadays comparing two systems with totally different core rules to the point that one can't play them against one another any more, and arguable the scale is drifting apart too.

 auticus wrote:
I have a high feeling that none of the old models are coming back. I don't see on what logical plane of existence GW would go back to that, especially since a good portion of moving to AOS was to get rid of generic fantasy models that could be obtained cheaper elsewhere.

Well I have no idea what they could do but, going back to generic fantasy could be good. Gets back players they lost, and means little start up with kits they can just dust off and run out. As well they can rob the returning crowd with rules books. Could even sell the old fantasy kits a bit cheaper if they are selling them in larger amounts. I know cheaper and GW , not things that go together but they could do it.

This will be one of those times I hope for the best but am well aware this is probably wishful thinking.