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Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:

(HN) 806214 wrote:Text.

Weird take. We have hundreds of kits sold at gencon with one return. And dozens of kits being reported on by customers who seem happy with them, on FB, Reddit and the discords.

And a lot of calls for the cheaper sets sold at Gencon to be made mainstream to help lower that sticker shot and entry level price range.

 Overread wrote:

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:

(HN) 806214 wrote:Text.

Weird take. We have hundreds of kits sold at gencon with one return. And dozens of kits being reported on by customers who seem happy with them, on FB, Reddit and the discords.

And a lot of calls for the cheaper sets sold at Gencon to be made mainstream to help lower that sticker shot and entry level price range.

Which is probably reasonable. Now the savings on the gencon sets were just 10-20% but it would be cool to have a battlebox-style kit. Possibly with a solo in it.

We know they really have gone all in on answering retailer cries from the last 5 years to dramatically reduce SKUS, but it would just be +1/faction. And tbh, they could roll the warcaster into that SKU.

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:

 Overread wrote:

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:

(HN) 806214 wrote:Text.

Weird take. We have hundreds of kits sold at gencon with one return. And dozens of kits being reported on by customers who seem happy with them, on FB, Reddit and the discords.

And a lot of calls for the cheaper sets sold at Gencon to be made mainstream to help lower that sticker shot and entry level price range.

Which is probably reasonable. Now the savings on the gencon sets were just 10-20% but it would be cool to have a battlebox-style kit. Possibly with a solo in it.

We know they really have gone all in on answering retailer cries from the last 5 years to dramatically reduce SKUS, but it would just be +1/faction. And tbh, they could roll the warcaster into that SKU.

It would actually further cut their SKU count by 2. There's little reason for the individual Caster/Warjack boxes. Particularly if they sell Warjacks as singles like they plan to for units.

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:

(HN) 806214 wrote:Text.

Weird take. We have hundreds of kits sold at gencon with one return. And dozens of kits being reported on by customers who seem happy with them, on FB, Reddit and the discords.

I'm not as sure as you about how many people actually took a close enough look to their stuff to detect things like layer lines on unprimed resin.

 Albertorius wrote:

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:

(HN) 806214 wrote:Text.

Weird take. We have hundreds of kits sold at gencon with one return. And dozens of kits being reported on by customers who seem happy with them, on FB, Reddit and the discords.

I'm not as sure as you about how many people actually took a close enough look to their stuff to detect things like layer lines on unprimed resin.

Which is a fair comment, heck a lot of people don't even deal with mould lines and are very happy gamers.

 Albertorius wrote:

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:

(HN) 806214 wrote:Text.

Weird take. We have hundreds of kits sold at gencon with one return. And dozens of kits being reported on by customers who seem happy with them, on FB, Reddit and the discords.

I'm not as sure as you about how many people actually took a close enough look to their stuff to detect things like layer lines on unprimed resin.

More to the point, on multiple occasions I've had visible layer lines on an unprimed model that have completely disappeared once they're painted.

Now, given the stereotypical WMH, this might still present somewhat of a problem, but the solution will be available to them.

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:

(HN) 806214 wrote:Text.

Weird take. We have hundreds of kits sold at gencon with one return. And dozens of kits being reported on by customers who seem happy with them, on FB, Reddit and the discords.

Are you working for PP?
Do you have direct access to their support line, or are you just basic your opinion on some anecdotal social media posts (only the ones that fit your little narrative tho, the others are apparently just "mistakes" from very evil people that apparently have something to gain from... just posting picture of the models? (talk about "weird take" indeed).

I want to point out that "Dead on Arrival" is abbreviated as "DOA", not "DAO".

I'll also point out that the "one return" is the official line of Privateer Press itself, and not just "some anecdotal social media post".

I have good contacts in PP and I am very disappointed with the aforementioned people, several of whom I have personally corresponded with in the past. They are not evil, but they have not handled themselves well in the last few weeks.

I also have one of the Gencon kits myself.

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
I have good contacts in PP and I am very disappointed with the aforementioned people, several of whom I have personally corresponded with in the past. They are not evil, but they have not handled themselves well in the last few weeks.

I also have one of the Gencon kits myself.

I actually couldn’t be happier that they have refused to let an internet mob ruin a relaunch with great product on the basis of zero facts.

caladancid wrote:

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
I have good contacts in PP and I am very disappointed with the aforementioned people, several of whom I have personally corresponded with in the past. They are not evil, but they have not handled themselves well in the last few weeks.

I also have one of the Gencon kits myself.

I actually couldn’t be happier that they have refused to let an internet mob ruin a relaunch with great product on the basis of zero facts.

What are you two referring to exactly ?

I haven't paid attention to what PP have said and done outside of their own official announcement on MKIV and pictures of the kits they, themselves, have sent to people.
While their push for free rules is nice, everything on the actual mini side looks just bad, from the price to the actual mini quality itself (again, simply going by what I've seen, from MULTIPLE source, what PP is offering looks like very middle of the road 3D printing quality, something certain not worth the asked price).

 LunarSol wrote:
cut their SKU count by 2. There's little reason for the individual Caster/Warjack boxes. Particularly if they sell Warjacks as singles like they plan to for units.

Umm so if you want additional jacks you need to buy combo boxes with warcasters you can only use one? Cuts down savings a lot.

tneva82 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
cut their SKU count by 2. There's little reason for the individual Caster/Warjack boxes. Particularly if they sell Warjacks as singles like they plan to for units.

Umm so if you want additional jacks you need to buy combo boxes with warcasters you can only use one? Cuts down savings a lot.

Presumably you'd be able to order singles off their webstore just like you can with any other unit in the army that is otherwise bundled. As is, having 4 jacks feels like plenty anyway.

I was one of the ones that missed out on the $75 boxes, so if anyone has an extra they'd be willing to part with, let me know...

Additionally, I REALLY don't like it when companies tell me they have this cool new thing I need to buy and then only offer it for approximately 14 seconds. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive but the last few years with GW have put a bad taste in my mouth.

With all of that being said, I'm still intrigued by this next step for Warmachine. I played in the good 'ol days of Mk. I and II, but didn't really play with three because I felt the armies were way too unwieldy and the game just didn't 'present' well with these massive forces just pushed together at the center of the table. It *seems* like they're trying to address that somewhat with Mk. IV, so I'll bite and give it a go. I don't have a large collection of Warmachine, and it looks like my Gremlin are safe anyway, although if I were still playing and had large forces for other armies I'd be a bit miffed about the way they're going about this. I still hope this works out for the better, though!

caladancid wrote:

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
I have good contacts in PP and I am very disappointed with the aforementioned people, several of whom I have personally corresponded with in the past. They are not evil, but they have not handled themselves well in the last few weeks.

I also have one of the Gencon kits myself.

I actually couldn’t be happier that they have refused to let an internet mob ruin a relaunch with great product on the basis of zero facts.

Are people carving the layer lines themselves? The fact is there are pictures of models which are certainly not worth the advertised price point. Will things improve by actual launch date? I hope so.

Toofast wrote:
Are people carving the layer lines themselves? The fact is there are pictures of models which are certainly not worth the advertised price point. Will things improve by actual launch date? I hope so.

Yeah, I don't know, that kind of remark is weird...
How could you say there's "zero facts" when we literally got multiple peoples posting pictures of heavily marked models...
At best it's just some outliers which would indicate that the quality control of PP is not nearly as good as it should be (ESPECIALLY for what is supposed to be their "best foot forward") and at worst it just show that the quality of their printing is just not good enough to be used to print their whole game with, let alone ask GW price for it, and no matter what they will be between both of thos extremes which is more than enough info to draw some conclusion like, once again, how the price they are asking for their stuff isn't deserved.

 LunarSol wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
cut their SKU count by 2. There's little reason for the individual Caster/Warjack boxes. Particularly if they sell Warjacks as singles like they plan to for units.

Umm so if you want additional jacks you need to buy combo boxes with warcasters you can only use one? Cuts down savings a lot.

Presumably you'd be able to order singles off their webstore just like you can with any other unit in the army that is otherwise bundled. As is, having 4 jacks feels like plenty anyway.

What prices would they charge for single human-sized minis?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
cut their SKU count by 2. There's little reason for the individual Caster/Warjack boxes. Particularly if they sell Warjacks as singles like they plan to for units.

Umm so if you want additional jacks you need to buy combo boxes with warcasters you can only use one? Cuts down savings a lot.

Presumably you'd be able to order singles off their webstore just like you can with any other unit in the army that is otherwise bundled. As is, having 4 jacks feels like plenty anyway.

What prices would they charge for single human-sized minis?

"I want to just buy another caster" is an argument that makes a lot more sense when you put it that way

EDIT: To actually answer the question, the best recent comparison is the resin mk3 battlebox caster resculpts, which are webstore exclusives for about $17.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
What prices would they charge for single human-sized minis?

For those looking to tailor their armies more granularly, Privateer will offer a la carte purchases of models in generic packaging through the Privateer Press Online Store 60–90 days after a product releases to retail. However, on a one-to-one basis, it will save you money overall to purchase the boxed sets, which we hope will encourage you to buy from your local game store.

Welp, looking at the price of what is supposed to be discounted boxes, I'd 10 buck the standard infantry dude, minimum.

I was hoping for something more reasonable for an infantry dude. $17 for a named character is not great, but acceptable for the right miniature. $10 is fine for a well-sculpted resin schmo miniature that doesn’t look made out of micro-legos.

For these topographical map mofos, $5 is getting cheeky.

Toofast wrote:

caladancid wrote:

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
I have good contacts in PP and I am very disappointed with the aforementioned people, several of whom I have personally corresponded with in the past. They are not evil, but they have not handled themselves well in the last few weeks.

I also have one of the Gencon kits myself.

I actually couldn’t be happier that they have refused to let an internet mob ruin a relaunch with great product on the basis of zero facts.

Are people carving the layer lines themselves? The fact is there are pictures of models which are certainly not worth the advertised price point. Will things improve by actual launch date? I hope so.

The overwhelming majority of models on Facebook and elsewhere are quite good quality.

The zero facts is referring to the rage mob during Gencon of allegedly unsafe products.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
cut their SKU count by 2. There's little reason for the individual Caster/Warjack boxes. Particularly if they sell Warjacks as singles like they plan to for units.

Umm so if you want additional jacks you need to buy combo boxes with warcasters you can only use one? Cuts down savings a lot.

Presumably you'd be able to order singles off their webstore just like you can with any other unit in the army that is otherwise bundled. As is, having 4 jacks feels like plenty anyway.

What prices would they charge for single human-sized minis?

Materials and averaged costs, x 4 or more, depending on how greedy you want to be..

A single 28mm figure (GW guardsmen scale) on a garbage tier resin costs 50 cents usd once you average electricity, filters, actually working time handling the machine and prepping files, machine maintenance.

My base price for 28mm infantry figures is $2.50, and my resin isn't garbage tier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

caladancid wrote:

Toofast wrote:

caladancid wrote:

Kaptajn Congoboy wrote:
I have good contacts in PP and I am very disappointed with the aforementioned people, several of whom I have personally corresponded with in the past. They are not evil, but they have not handled themselves well in the last few weeks.

I also have one of the Gencon kits myself.

I actually couldn’t be happier that they have refused to let an internet mob ruin a relaunch with great product on the basis of zero facts.

Are people carving the layer lines themselves? The fact is there are pictures of models which are certainly not worth the advertised price point. Will things improve by actual launch date? I hope so.

The overwhelming majority of models on Facebook and elsewhere are quite good quality.

The zero facts is referring to the rage mob during Gencon of allegedly unsafe products.

Things certainly got heated, by reports I've heard.

But it's not zero facts. Somebody reported partially cured resin.

That is a carcinogenic liquid Capable of off-gassing VOCs which are also carcinogenic.

People have a right to be concerned about it. If even one uncured mini got boxed and sent out, thats a quality control issue, and a liability issue.

 McDougall Designs wrote:
But it's not zero facts. Somebody reported partially cured resin.

That is a carcinogenic liquid Capable of off-gassing VOCs which are also carcinogenic.

People have a right to be concerned about it. If even one uncured mini got boxed and sent out, thats a quality control issue, and a liability issue.

Removed - rule #1
Is resin not good for your health? Ofc, I think everyone knows that, but let's be honest people know they should wear protection while working on resin.

Also these items are very small and will never off-gas enough to have any impact on anyone health (if they don't start to suck or sniff them, ofc).

 (HN) wrote:

 McDougall Designs wrote:
But it's not zero facts. Somebody reported partially cured resin.

That is a carcinogenic liquid Capable of off-gassing VOCs which are also carcinogenic.

People have a right to be concerned about it. If even one uncured mini got boxed and sent out, thats a quality control issue, and a liability issue.

Removed - rule #1
Is resin not good for your health? Ofc, I think everyone knows that, but let's be honest people know they should wear protection while working on resin.

Also these items are very small and will never off-gas enough to have any impact on anyone health (if they don't start to suck or sniff them, ofc).

Well, the company line on the instance of the uncured resin debacle is that the person who bought it did come back to the booth eventually, and upon inspection it wasn't "uncured" but that it had a powdery residue left on due to insufficient cleaning. (Now, yes, that can happen.)

The thing about UV resins being uncured is that it does not require sucking or sniffing it for it to be dangerous; direct skin contact will cause a reaction. Probably would happen with 2 part resin, too, but either way, it's absolutely a valid concern and not only for those that "lick their minis."

And yes, cutting or sanding resin, UV or otherwise, should be done with respirators and wet sanding, etc. That wasn't the cause of the "issue" here, though.

Sure, I know that simple skin contact isn't good since, well it's resin, and that thing isn't good for the skin, but just as I said anyone that knows what they are doing know that resin is toxic and that you should always use latex glove while handling them.

Again, I'm not defending PP, that kind of stuff is straight up unacceptable, but trying to pull the "health concern" card here seems to be grossly disingenuous and on the same level than "look, the pieces are too small and my baby could have chocked on it".

Sure, that could happen, but it's more a problem stemming from how you used the product than the product itself.

The real problem is the actual product quality and quality assurance here.

Finally managed to find time to go over the beta rules and cards. Few things I noticed:

● Warcasters are free, but no longer have free Warjack points.
● Warjacks no longer have FA:U.
● Each game size has an increasing minimum Warjack/Warbeast requirement.
● 50pts is lowest size game now, and requires at least 1 Warjack/Warbeast.
● Some models have had slight stat and points changes

Looking at the MKIII Cryx Battlegroup (Agathia, Reaper, Slayer, and Deathripper) it converts to 24pts. Add in 2 units, a solo, and some pointed command cards and that will be 50pts, which is not too far from a current Brawlmachine list size wise.

Still, it would have been nice have a 25pts Duel format that is just caster and warjack/warbeast. As the rules are still in Beta stages, I hope they do add this in the final version.

 (HN) wrote:

Toofast wrote:
Are people carving the layer lines themselves? The fact is there are pictures of models which are certainly not worth the advertised price point. Will things improve by actual launch date? I hope so.

Yeah, I don't know, that kind of remark is weird...
How could you say there's "zero facts" when we literally got multiple peoples posting pictures of heavily marked models...
At best it's just some outliers which would indicate that the quality control of PP is not nearly as good as it should be (ESPECIALLY for what is supposed to be their "best foot forward") and at worst it just show that the quality of their printing is just not good enough to be used to print their whole game with, let alone ask GW price for it, and no matter what they will be between both of thos extremes which is more than enough info to draw some conclusion like, once again, how the price they are asking for their stuff isn't deserved.

100% agree. You would expect them to go through bins of parts and pick the best ones to send out to youtubers and take to GenCon. If they did that and this is what we're getting, it says something about their competence with the new medium. If they just picked the first 100 off the printer and threw them in boxes, it says something about their business acumen.

Toofast wrote:

 (HN) wrote:

Toofast wrote:
Are people carving the layer lines themselves? The fact is there are pictures of models which are certainly not worth the advertised price point. Will things improve by actual launch date? I hope so.

Yeah, I don't know, that kind of remark is weird...
How could you say there's "zero facts" when we literally got multiple peoples posting pictures of heavily marked models...
At best it's just some outliers which would indicate that the quality control of PP is not nearly as good as it should be (ESPECIALLY for what is supposed to be their "best foot forward") and at worst it just show that the quality of their printing is just not good enough to be used to print their whole game with, let alone ask GW price for it, and no matter what they will be between both of thos extremes which is more than enough info to draw some conclusion like, once again, how the price they are asking for their stuff isn't deserved.

100% agree. You would expect them to go through bins of parts and pick the best ones to send out to youtubers and take to GenCon. If they did that and this is what we're getting, it says something about their competence with the new medium. If they just picked the first 100 off the printer and threw them in boxes, it says something about their business acumen.

At the end of the day, we see what a company chooses to show. And PP chose that.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I was hoping for something more reasonable for an infantry dude. $17 for a named character is not great, but acceptable for the right miniature. $10 is fine for a well-sculpted resin schmo miniature that doesn’t look made out of micro-legos.

For these topographical map mofos, $5 is getting cheeky.

FWIW, if you assume out of the $200 box sets that $75 for the two jacks with all their arms plus the warcaster is the going rate, it comes to $125 for the remaining 19 figures $6.58 per schmo.

How should we account for the extra cost that the app, artwork, fiction writers, etc might add to the model costs?