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tneva82 wrote:
No profit there. GW aims for NEW players. You know. The ones who don't have armies already. Those who buy models.

Well yeah. I think GW will change base sizes.
This is also why I think GW will release almost universally new stuff. Their business is selling plastic. The number of buyers for say Skeleton Warriors released in 2002 (or whatever) that were looking kind of outdated in 2010~ never mind 2023 going on 2030 has got to be tiny.

But I don't think that's going to meaningfully stop people playing with their existing armies. At least for a while.

Someone has never met a WHFB player, clearly.

We all buy loads of models that fit the game we play…. increasingly this means elsewhere from GW as they have gone off on the AoS tangent. This is money GW could have but are losing.

The newbies are all happily playing AoS, spending their money at GW already. Why split that market share with a new game?

This is clearly marketed at lapsed players, not new folks with no attachment to the game already.

The question is if GW would burn down there built in player base, it’s a big risk.
It instantly turns day one buy for me into a no buy.
Going to take me a year to rebase things.

Luke82 wrote:
Someone has never met a WHFB player, clearly.

We all buy loads of models that fit the game we play….

If this were true WFB wouldn't have been canned.

JSG wrote:

Luke82 wrote:
Someone has never met a WHFB player, clearly.

We all buy loads of models that fit the game we play….

If this were true WFB wouldn't have been canned.

WFB was canned to protect their IP and not because of sales. It would be good to remember that.

 Paymaster Games wrote:

JSG wrote:

Luke82 wrote:
Someone has never met a WHFB player, clearly.

We all buy loads of models that fit the game we play….

If this were true WFB wouldn't have been canned.

WFB was canned to protect their IP and not because of sales. It would be good to remember that.

WFB was canned because the previous CEO and the lead developer had a massive falling out when the CEO basically ordered him to make the next edition of WFB a skirmish game because clearly the problem with WFB was the rank file rule set and not the fact that all creative effort behind it was stagnant¹ and the marketing was somewhere between moribund and non-existent. (Allegedly)


¹ twenty years without a single new army/race even with one entirely fleshed out and ready to go already, one that players had been literally begging for, in the form of the chaos dwarfs. Never mind the other “known” races like the eastern humans and the “good” beastmen² of the southlands.

² the ones with big cat features rather than livestock features.

 Mr_Rose wrote:


WFB was canned because the previous CEO and the lead developer had a massive falling out when the CEO basically ordered him to make the next edition of WFB a skirmish game because clearly the problem with WFB was the rank file rule set and not the fact that all creative effort behind it was stagnant¹ and the marketing was somewhere between moribund and non-existent. (Allegedly)

If that was the reason, I'm confident they will handle it a lot better this time around. One can level several accusations against GW, but they've absolutely made a 180 in terms of reviving past concepts, armies and game systems since.

looking at Necromunda, not really
they just now know how marketing works and that nostalgia sells

 kodos wrote:
looking at Necromunda, not really
they just now know how marketing works and that nostalgia sells

Necromunda was completely remade and still gets regular releases, doesn't it?

 BertBert wrote:

 kodos wrote:
looking at Necromunda, not really
they just now know how marketing works and that nostalgia sells

Necromunda was completely remade and still gets regular releases, doesn't it?

if TOW follows the route of Necromunda, people are going back playing Oldhammer very soon and are just happy that once in a while some new plastics come up

 kodos wrote:
if TOW follows the route of Necromunda, people are going back playing Oldhammer very soon and are just happy that once in a while some new plastics come up

If it's just that, I'd be happy with it. I want new miniatures to build armies, anything on top is a bonus with GW.

 BertBert wrote:

 kodos wrote:
looking at Necromunda, not really
they just now know how marketing works and that nostalgia sells

Necromunda was completely remade and still gets regular releases, doesn't it?

Depending on your definition of regular, but yes. Imho one of the bigger drawbacks of current Necromunda is that they don't really give out actual roadmaps like they do for e.g. KillTeam or WarCry, just vague design notes and such. But yes, it is supported frequently.

 Paymaster Games wrote:

JSG wrote:

Luke82 wrote:
Someone has never met a WHFB player, clearly.

We all buy loads of models that fit the game we play….

If this were true WFB wouldn't have been canned.

WFB was canned to protect their IP and not because of sales. It would be good to remember that.

Uh huh..we already have Peachy who was working there at the time come out and confirm it was sales. Or lack of them. I'd recommend you go check out that video.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 Paymaster Games wrote:

JSG wrote:

Luke82 wrote:
Someone has never met a WHFB player, clearly.

We all buy loads of models that fit the game we play….

If this were true WFB wouldn't have been canned.

WFB was canned to protect their IP and not because of sales. It would be good to remember that.

Uh huh..we already have Peachy who was working there at the time come out and confirm it was sales. Or lack of them. I'd recommend you go check out that video.

Sales slumpped when they started making units boxes of 12-16 per box but needing 30+ for a unit and still charging the same cost. Players moved over to Kings of War or onto new systems. GW needed to protect what they had so they closed it down and went for a terrible rebrand. I doubt you'll get old Grognards like myself to start spending GW prices for a system that won't have good rules, when they can play Kings of War with the same armies for far cheaper. Disposable income or not, WHFB will not have another hayday like it used to have.

I dunno about that - the wargamer market is arguably way bigger than it was in the golden ways of Warhammer Fantasy Battles.


It's fully possible that it can achieve far greater numbers of players; though as a percentage of the market it might be a different level of power. Of course part of that is just that the market for fantasy and sci-fi is more developed than it was.

 Theophony wrote:
I doubt you'll get old Grognards like myself to start spending GW prices for a system that won't have good rules, when they can play Kings of War with the same armies for far cheaper.

As an old grognard, feth Kings of War. It's boring, doesn't feel like Warhammer, and the models are naff.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
I doubt you'll get old Grognards like myself to start spending GW prices for a system that won't have good rules, when they can play Kings of War with the same armies for far cheaper.

As an old grognard, feth Kings of War. It's boring, doesn't feel like Warhammer, and the models are naff.

As another old grognard, I love Kings of War. It's not half as slow and boring as WFB was, feels as much like Warhammer as the tales you tell playing it, and the models are the ones I bought from GW for Warhammer. It's all opinion.

Am I excited for New WFB? Not really for the rules, but I'd love to add more figures to my KoW armies. My only issue is that I can imagine the new stuff will have scale creep and make my old figures look tiny.

(And yes, I do have some Mantic figures in my armies - the ones I like, along with a mix of a few other manufacturers)

Considering the recent price insanity, I can’t get any more excited for new WHFB minis than I can get for some new water park opening in Dubai.

tneva82 wrote:
Well GW never promised old bases would remain usable.

But we'll see. If GW intends seraphon, slaves to darkness etc models be usable they need bigger bases than old 25mm squares. So will there be multiple different base sizes, fewer unified ones or are the AOS&TOW chaos/seraphon/skaven etc models incompatible?

AoS was also supposed to be 'WFB Compatable', and turned into 'NotHammer'. Sure, they attracted enough new blood to make it work, but the old guard left in droves.

TOW is supposed to bring the old guard back into the fold. Making it even slightly incompatible with their existing collections is not going to end well. Might as well save money and reputation and let sleeping dogs lie, y'know?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:


Yea but those 2 oldhammer players who play with their old models are pretty much irrelevant.

Anyone else out there with tens of thousands of points of old models they'd like to play with want to speak out and let this kid know there's quite a few of us out there, MORE than enough money to attract GW's greed?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
I doubt you'll get old Grognards like myself to start spending GW prices for a system that won't have good rules, when they can play Kings of War with the same armies for far cheaper.

As an old grognard, feth Kings of War. It's boring, doesn't feel like Warhammer, and the models are naff.

As another old grognard, I love Kings of War. It's not half as slow and boring as WFB was...

If the game recommends use of a chess clock to put pressure on the players to play quickly, it's not half as complex and interesting as it's marketed to be.

In my opinion, of course.

 Vulcan wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well GW never promised old bases would remain usable.

But we'll see. If GW intends seraphon, slaves to darkness etc models be usable they need bigger bases than old 25mm squares. So will there be multiple different base sizes, fewer unified ones or are the AOS&TOW chaos/seraphon/skaven etc models incompatible?

AoS was also supposed to be 'WFB Compatable', and turned into 'NotHammer'. Sure, they attracted enough new blood to make it work, but the old guard left in droves.

TOW is supposed to bring the old guard back into the fold. Making it even slightly incompatible with their existing collections is not going to end well. Might as well save money and reputation and let sleeping dogs lie, y'know?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:


Yea but those 2 oldhammer players who play with their old models are pretty much irrelevant.

Anyone else out there with tens of thousands of points of old models they'd like to play with want to speak out and let this kid know there's quite a few of us out there, MORE than enough money to attract GW's greed?

Some of these kids can't grasp the concept that people may want to own more than one army for WFB. For some reason the thought that the same people who own, like, 6 40K armies won't buy more than one WFB army that they've stopped adding to for decades. It's self-validating insanity on the part of the people thinking no money will be spent.

 Vulcan wrote:


If the game recommends use of a chess clock to put pressure on the players to play quickly, it's not half as complex and interesting as it's marketed to be.

In my opinion, of course.

Warmachine recommends using chess clock exactly because it's complex and options every turn are numerous, interesting and viable. Without it you get some players stuck in analysis paralysis for hours on end.

 Vulcan wrote:

If the game recommends use of a chess clock to put pressure on the players to play quickly, it's not half as complex and interesting as it's marketed to be.
In my opinion, of course.

there are those games were playing on time and prevent the opponent from having a 3rd turn is a viable strategy to win tournaments and those games that recommend using chess clocks for tournaments to prevent this (and I guess chess is not very complex or interesting as that game invented the chess clock)

and I never found it very complex or interesting waiting there for 15 minutes during my turn until my opponent has decided which charge reaction they wanted to use

I would agree if a clock is fundamental to play the game, because than it would not be very interesting at all, but recommending one for tournaments so that the play who is wasting his time is punished instead of the other is something very different
specially as a lot of non-GW games use a clock for tournaments

Problem being you get punished for playing legit army that is even supposed to be common archetype.

But gw values hiding depth(lack of) with needless dice rolls and tournaments looking for profit. And players want all toys without having to compromise.

 Just Tony wrote:

Some of these kids can't grasp the concept that people may want to own more than one army for WFB. For some reason the thought that the same people who own, like, 6 40K armies won't buy more than one WFB army that they've stopped adding to for decades. It's self-validating insanity on the part of the people thinking no money will be spent.

Some of us haven't stopped adding to them, but I'm still missing Ogres and Chaos Dwarfs and am definitely excited to add new armies that didn't have older rules to the collection.

Yeah, I have 15,000 points or so of DE and I still periodically add to it.

7,000-odd points of Brets can still use some expansion, along with 6,000-odd points of Skaven - I still don't have any stormfiends, after all.

And now I'm getting a Lizardman army going even without TOW yet, probably up around 2500 points and climbing fast.

If the new Bret minis are compatible with my existing ones, I'll buy them and play TOW. If they're not, GW can go pound sand.

It really is that simple.

I'm still kind of surprised GW hasn't brought DE back under AoS because the whole army is basically there. Heck with the way they teased the latest story for Daughters of Khaine and Morathi I thought they were going to do just that. They sort of soft did it.


That said DoK have become their own thing, but the DE army can certainly stand without them - all they lost was the cauldron and witch aelves; they've got models for everything else - leaders, dragons, infantry, archers, monsters, etc....

Throw a new leader or two in and its a done whole army.

Maybe now that Mantic has show Off their Dark Elves, GW can go ahead and release something and not worry that Mantic will copy it for KOW.

I see that people still cannot follow the really clear instruction to leave this thread for TOW N&R, mass executions will ensue from now on in.

I'm really hoping for a box of ork boyz that's just like the 40k one (but fantasy of course). I just really enjoy putting together wacky weird looking orks with all the bits and bobs the come with.

I think the boar boyz art from the news means there might be a chance.

When did we get the last article about TOW? Are we expecting one in April as well?