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Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Immediately I hate the Phoenix Lords in 10th. It took ages for them to actually reach a semi respectable statline previously and now they've regressed to poor shadows of what they should be while primarchs have yet again ridden the bolterporn wave to super stats.

So as usual I provide my own rules that better reflect these Eldar embodiments of war. equal treatment


Asurmen

8" t5 sv2+ w6 ld5+ oc3

Bloody twins (assault pistol Lethal hits) 24" a6 bs2+ s5 ap-1 d2
Sword of asur (strike) (devastating wounds, lethal hits) a7 WS2+ s8 ap-4 d3
Sword of asur (sweep) (lethal hits) a12 ws2+ s5 ap-2 d1

Core abilities
Favoured of khaine (feel no pain 4+, lone operative, strikes first)

Faction abilities
strands of fate

Invulnerable save 3+


Hand asuryan: at the beginning of the command phase choose one of the hand of asuryan abilities below. Until the start of your next command phase this model has that ability.


Asuryans fury
Any friendly dire Avengers units within 6" of this model gain +1 to hit when they make an attack.

Tactical acumen
One friendly dire Avengers unit within 6" can perform an overwatch strategem for 0cp even if it has already been used.

Avenging strike
Any friendly dire Avengers units within 6" of this model gain the sustained hits 1 ability on their attacks.



Rather than use damage caps I just gave them FNP to reflect how hard they are to kill and strikes first to reflect their demigod like speed.


I'll put more up as I go.

EDIT: first draft of all 6 is done. Attached.
 Filename Phoenix Lords 1.0.pdf [Disk] Download
 Description
 File size 636 Kbytes

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/06/10 10:08:59


   
Made in ca
Poisonous Kroot Headhunter





Honesty, I'd just settle for Asurmen's model not being from freaking 2nd edition anymore.

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Yes the Primarchs are going to be better than dudes that constantly die and have to possess another body, get over it.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





EviscerationPlague wrote:
Yes the Primarchs are going to be better than dudes that constantly die and have to possess another body, get over it.


Vulkan constantly died, so we should give him sucky rules too. Angron is constantly dying now too, maybe he should suck. Ooh Lucius the eternal is designed to be killed, so maybe he should suck.

The immortal rebirthing narrative device says nothing about their power.

If you aren't here to discuss rules, you can leave.




   
Made in ca
Poisonous Kroot Headhunter





EviscerationPlague wrote:
Yes the Primarchs are going to be better than dudes that constantly die and have to possess another body, get over it.


It's not about them being narratively stronger than a primarch, it's about being reasonably playable on the table. I only have a small Eldar army so I can't say if that's the case, but that was the OP's point. TBH, I think he looks pretty solid and we don't have points yet so I think it's too early to say.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/08 00:06:52


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1614 1342 1010 2000 960 1330 1040  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Would it be worth giving him rules for his holstered pistol present on the model?

hello 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





You could, but the bloody twins are already pistols and have 6 shots so not sure what you could do.

If you wanted a neuro disruptor on him maybe.

My intent was to give them the phoenix lord exarch power auras and resilience that they should have.


   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Where are the phoenix lord rules from GW available so I can compare them to your proposal, Hellebore?


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Wyldhunt wrote:
Where are the phoenix lord rules from GW available so I can compare them to your proposal, Hellebore?


The two that were shown over the last weekend at one of those US demo games were Karandras and Asurmen.

Pretty disappointed in them. Abbadon became a leader and stayed tanky AF with crazy attacks, but they stripped the phoenix lords massively.
[Thumb - karandras.png]

[Thumb - asurmen.png]


   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Hellebore wrote:
You could, but the bloody twins are already pistols and have 6 shots so not sure what you could do.




More pistol shots? Even shuriken pistol adds up extra shots.


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Sure, you could add 1 extra shot to the twins to reflect the pistol at his hip.

So they'd be A7.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Karandras

M8" T5 Sv2+ W6 Ld5+ OC3

Arha's bane (assault, pistol) 12" a2 bs2+ s5 ap-1 d2
Arha's bane (sustained hits) a5 WS2+ s10 ap-3 d2
isirmathil (Extra attacks, sustained hits) a6 ws2+ s6 ap-2 d1
Scorpions Bite (extra attacks, devastating wounds, anti-infantry 3+) a1D6 WS2+ S5 AP-1 D2

Core abilities
Infiltrators, Favoured of khaine (feel no pain 4+, lone operative, strikes first)

Faction abilities
strands of fate

Invulnerable save 4+


Shadow Hunter: at the beginning of the command phase choose one of the Shadow Hunter abilities below. Until the start of your next command phase this model has that ability.

Scorpion strike
Any friendly Striking Scorpions units within 6" of this model gain +1 to hit when they make an attack.

Sustained Assault
Any friendly Striking Scorpions units within 6" scores a critical hit on a 4+ in the turn they charged.

Shadow Walk
Any friendly Striking Scorpions units within 6" receives the Stealth special rule




IMO the devastating wounds from mandiblasters is lazy and swingy. I prefer them being a separate weapon as extra attacks.


It's really disappointing to see that the one unique thing exarchs and lords got - exarch powers that they grant to their aspect, have been stripped and given to space marine characters instead. That was one of the coolest concepts, that the exarchs were ninja masters that used cool moves and taught them to their students.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/10 02:45:43


   
Made in us
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In My Lab

12-17 attacks feels excessive. By a lot.
For reference, he kills 7 MEQ in one combat phase.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





 JNAProductions wrote:
12-17 attacks feels excessive. By a lot.
For reference, he kills 7 MEQ in one combat phase.


He kills less than Guilliman or Lion do, which is (for me) what I'm measuring against. I am placing PLs below a primarch but above a marine captain.

Design goals are like an eldar primarch, so not as tough, but fast and hit hard.


Did up a datasheet for Asurmen.

EDIT: the scorpion's bite should be A1D3, not 1D6.



 Filename asurmen.pdf [Disk] Download
 Description
 File size 622 Kbytes

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/10 04:07:29


   
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Italy

No resurrect style ability? The Contemptor Dread got one so you could repurpose that for a Phoenix Lord.
   
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 The Red Hobbit wrote:
No resurrect style ability? The Contemptor Dread got one so you could repurpose that for a Phoenix Lord.


I gave Asurmen the Phoenix Resurgent ability which is basically Guilliman's armour of fate. I decided in keeping with the 10th ed 'unique rule for each unit' thing that the other lords would get their own once per battle ability.

Karandras I gave the shadow form ability, getting fly (so ignores desperate escape rolls) while also inflicting MW on the units he escapes through - like a shadow ninja stabbing through his enemies.

The fnp4+ rule reflects their resilience to damage (average halving all damage they receive).

EDIT: apologies had to reupload karandras a few times due to some errors I saw.

[Thumb - karandras1.png]

[Thumb - asurmen1.png]

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2023/06/10 05:20:21


   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Here's jain zar.

looking at making her a whirlwind of stabbing and shrieking that screws with enemy units and blends through hordes. But she can also go precise and target leaders.
[Thumb - jain zar.png]


   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Fuegan, all fire and burning and destruction.
[Thumb - fuegan1.png]


   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ok, finished first draft of all of them.

I expect the points cost to be ~2/3rds of a primarch.

They are resilient, but not that much, however imo closer to a phoenix lord walking spirit suit and their ability to ignore damage.

Each one is very good at their job and I made almost all their ranged weapons pistols (yeah maugan ra doing some mad gunfu).





 Filename Phoenix Lords 1.0.pdf [Disk] Download
 Description
 File size 636 Kbytes

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/10 10:02:46


   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






Those are awesome. As the legendary days of old! Makes me want to pull out 2nd ed again.

I only have three quibbles:
Baharroth: The Blazing Fire ability could be easily abused by simply firing at lots of targets with your Hawks. Maybe limit to one target per squad?

Karandras: Seems like Sustained Attack should result in Sustained Hits, not Critical Hits

Mauga Ra: I know +1 to hit is just following the pattern of the other Pheonix Lords, but that's really strong on Reapers

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in fr
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Maugan ra averaging 30mw in 1 turn without factoring rerolls. Kinda strong.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
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In My Lab

tneva82 wrote:
Maugan ra averaging 30mw in 1 turn without factoring rerolls. Kinda strong.
How do you get that?
He caps at 24 MW in a shooting phase, assuming he rolls six 6s to-hit and then twelve 6s to-wound.

Edit: Actually, he can get Sustained Hits 2, so six 6s to-hit would be eighteen wound rolls, for a potential 36... But not an AVERAGE 30.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/10 19:40:27


Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in fr
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





ah sorry. Missed the one attack as in 1 shot.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Insectum7 wrote:Those are awesome. As the legendary days of old! Makes me want to pull out 2nd ed again.

I only have three quibbles:
Baharroth: The Blazing Fire ability could be easily abused by simply firing at lots of targets with your Hawks. Maybe limit to one target per squad?

Karandras: Seems like Sustained Attack should result in Sustained Hits, not Critical Hits

Mauga Ra: I know +1 to hit is just following the pattern of the other Pheonix Lords, but that's really strong on Reapers



Good point on blazing fire, I'd forgotten that you can target as many enemy units as you want with one squad....

the karandras rule is actually based on the one GW released in their preview datasheet and it interacts with sustained hits to mean he scores them on 4+ rather than 6+.

Yeah I was just following the precedent GW set with Asurmen and Karandras giving +1 to Hit to their aspects for maugan. Not particularly fussed about it staying, I was actually half way through writing them with separate rules before I remembered the +1 standard GW had already set.



tneva82 wrote:ah sorry. Missed the one attack as in 1 shot.


I will see if I can tighten it up more. The idea was that he really just forces battle shocks on up to 6 separate units, with maybe a -1 or 2 if he causes casualties.

Thanks for the feedback guys.




   
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Italy

Great work on these what are you using to create or modify the data cards?
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





I grabbed the farseer pic from GW and opened it in affinity publisher (like Adobe InDesign but much cheaper). Just eyedroppered the colours to cover up the text with boxes and used as a background.

The datasheets gw have released for marines list their fonts so I found them online.

   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Scrolling through the new marine chapter sheets and we see grimnar with 10\6 Attack profile, similar again for helbrect and the emperor's champion is better than asurmen sans 3+ invuln...

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Took me a while to look things over.

DISCLAIMERS:
* Overall, stuff looks neat. Most of my feedback will be a matter of personal preference. I know that you and I have differing views on what a phoenix lord should look like on the battlefield, and that's okay.

* I still don't have a strong grasp of what a "baseline" character is capable of in 10th, nor have I seen most of the aspect statlines yet. So I'll try to avoid commenting on how "strong" something is and comment more on vibes, rule complexity, etc.

OVERALL
* Personally, I don't picturing PLs as being physically strong enough or directly tough enough to warrant the strength and toughness stats you've given them, but I do understand the arguments for such stats.

* There are a lot of kill-better rules here. I tend not to be very fond of those in general, but they do seem to be pretty common in 10th.

* Mixed feelings on making them Lone Operatives. It's not inappropriate for them (especially guys like Maugan who don't fit in with their own aspect very well), and forcing them to hang out with units of their own aspect creates the classic problem of, "Why not just take another squad of that aspect instead?" But on the other hand, part of me feels like they really should probably be hanging out with their students.

Plus, if you *did* tie them to specific squads, it's easy to frame those squads as the guys they've been hanging out with and who have been directly benefitting from their teachings. At which point you could turn some of their auras/targeted buffs into benefits for their own squad. Which just feels a bit tidier to me.

ASURMEN
I know he's the most phoenix-y phoenix lord, but I don't really think of standing back up as being uniquely Asurmen's thing. If we're going to have a stand-back-up rule, I'd expect it to apply to all PLs rather than just Asurmen.

I'd be tempted to give him something that lets him interact with more types of units (nodding to him being the teacher of the other PLs and founder of the Path system in general) or possibly something that leans into his little surges of divine inspiration that he seems to get. Or maybe just a fluffy nod to his sword being a dire sword or something. But this is 100% personal preference and nitpicking on my part.

KARANDRAS
Shadow Walk is good. So weird that scorpions don't have it automatically. Really hoping exarch powers come back.

Shadow Form feels like it could be tweaked a bit. As-is, it feels less like him sneaking away and more like like he has AoE attack powers that make him want to be right next to lots of enemy units rather than hunting for isolated targets. I also have mixed feelings about how it sort of encourages him to abandon any scorpions he's been hanging out with up to that point. I'd be tempted to take away the Mortal Wounds part and/or make it an ability or something. If you were to take Lone Operative away from the PLs in general, I feel like this could be a rule that lets him break off from his units and become a LO for the rest of the game or something. Just spitballing.

BAHAROTH
Cloudstrider seems like it does a pretty good job of making him feel mobile.

The grenade pack feels off somehow. I'm having trouble pinning down why it feels off or what I'd rather do with it. For starters, you still can't shoot pistol and non-pistol weapons in the same turn in 10th, right? So you're choosing between it and his gun. But the gun has better range, more attacks, and higher damage. The difference in strength will only matter to T3, T5, and T6 targets (and T10-12 I guess), and I think the extra attacks and Damage from the gun might still make it mathematically preferable against a lot of those targets.

That said, I'm not sure what I'd do with it instead. Death From Above probably captures the feel of the grenade pack better than the grenade pack rules do. Maybe just drop the weapon profile and tweak DFAbove to just let him and his hawk friends use the Grenade Strat for free or multiple times in the same turn or something. Not sure.

Baharroth is probably my favorite PL. I think my favorite incarnation of his (and the other hawks') grenades were the 7th edition version where they let you bomb a unit as they yo-yo'd in, and also they had haywire grenades with which to be a nuisance to vehicles. I know a lot has changed since then, but that's probably the feeling I'd try to recapture with his grenade rules.

Blazing Fire seems like it should just be a Sun Rifle rule. I'd be tempted to change this to a to-hit debuff for any enemy units who were within engagement range of him in the previous Fight phase or something. Emphasize the idea that Baharroth himself is just painfully luminous. Let him be a mobile nuisance.

I feel like one of the kill-better Cry of the Wind rules could instead be a fall-back-and-shoot/charge rule instead. But I'm a weirdo who likes charging powersword hawk'xarchs into the enemy.

JAIN ZAR
Wail of the Morai Heg seems like it could be tweaked. I like the rule in general, but as-is you end up with that weird thing where charging a big gaggle of cultists means you might be battle-shocking half the table but charging a more elite unit means you may battle-shock a single additional unit. Maybe tweak its range to be hit all units within 9" of Jain herself instead of 6" of the enemy unit? I'd be tempted to just have it be activatable at the start of the Fight phase (instead of triggering off of Terror's Lament). Just because the iron-willed CSM in front of you stand strong against your scream doesn't mean the clumps of cultists next to them will do the same.

I'd have to crunch numbers, but I feel like the blade of destruction's sweep profile might beat out the precision profile more often than intended. In addition to being straight up better against most geq units, it wounds T4 better than the precision profile and has nearly double the attacks. The precision profile is probably still better against marines, but I suspect you might be better off trying to blend your way through a character's squad rather than attempting to snipe him out if you're facing anything not in power armor. Not that that's necessarily a problem; I just wasn't sure if it was intentional.

FUEGAN
To clarify, do you choose between Sear Song's profiles, or do you get 1 big attack and 2 smaller attacks? Either way, I think I'd be tempted to drop the S7 profile and give it a dragon's breath flamer alternate profile instead.

I'd tweak something about Dragon's Flame and/or Burning Rage. Because you have to pick between them and they both do vaguely similar jobs (make charging the dragons less easy/pleasant), they're in direct competition with one another. So it seems likely that you'll end up using one of them over the other 90% of the time. I have a little trouble figuring out the story Dragon's Flame is telling. I'm pretty sure you're going for the idea that the heat coming off the dragons actively discourages people from charging, but I feel like orkz and guardsmen charge enough crazy stuff in the 41st millenium that some sudden heat isn't going to slow them down appreciably. Maybe if it was tied to a Wall of Fire (the Psychic Awakening flamer power) type rule, I could see it representing units trying to get clear of the flames as they charge or something.

Burning Rage. I like the Cursed Blade's "stop hitting yourself" rule and similar effects, but I'm not sure that fits Fuegan especially well. Are we saying that Fuegan is better at punishing sloppy sword swings than Jain? Is he better in melee against berzerkers (more attacks means more to-hit rolls of 1) than guardsmen? I don't know. I like the idea of representing the heat coming off the dragons, but these rules just seme a little off to me.

I like Unquenchable Resolve. Simple. Fluffy. Mantle of Fire feels like it may be double-dipping from the Fuegan-is-angry well, but seems fun. I'd maybe ditch the healing aspect of MoFire. This guy already has a lot of rules floating around.

MAUGAN RA
I see you've made him tougher than Fuegan. That's a nod to the armor, I assume? Harvest of Souls has a typo where you've copy+pasted the words "burning lance." As written, Doom Incarnate makes enemies more likely to pass their leadership tests, which I imagine is the opposite of your intent.

I don't love Soul Harvest. It basically means it takes six times as long to resolve Maugan's shooting, and it feels like there's a lot of potential for all that rolling not accomplish much (as you're hurting your chances of making a given enemy fail their battle shock test by splitting up your shots.) I also worry that Doom Incarnate might be too good at making enemies fail their shock tests as written. The Maugetar averages more than 5 hits, so you're looking at imposing a -5 or -6 on the shock test on average. Which on a 2d6 roll, is almost just an auto-fail. I think I'd streamline and simplify these a bit. Maybe just impose a flat penalty to shock tests if a unit was shot at by Maugan that turn, and then maybe throw in an option to give his attacks Precision or something. That way, you're not double-dipping on the "freaking people out" thing, and you give the shootiest PL the ability to call his shots against important targets. Actually, precision shots might make sense as one of his Harvester of Souls abilities as it lets him choose between buffing his buddies or focusing on his own aim more carefully.

Phew. Sorry for the wall of text. Thanks for sharing your work. It's always nice to have some eldar rules to talk about. Especially given that edition changes tend to kind of kill this section of the forum.

EDIT: Don't forget about irillyth!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/13 00:38:51



ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
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In My Lab

 Wyldhunt wrote:
BAHAROTH
The grenade pack feels off somehow. I'm having trouble pinning down why it feels off or what I'd rather do with it. For starters, you still can't shoot pistol and non-pistol weapons in the same turn in 10th, right? So you're choosing between it and his gun. But the gun has better range, more attacks, and higher damage. The difference in strength will only matter to T3, T5, and T6 targets (and T10-12 I guess), and I think the extra attacks and Damage from the gun might still make it mathematically preferable against a lot of those targets.
With an average of 3 shots, you're looking at half base damage from the Grenade Pack.
Against T3, T5, and T6 wound rolls don't differ enough to make it worthwhile. T6 is 50% more damage on the wound roll, but given that anything T6 is liable to have multiple wounds...
Against Gravis Marines (T6, W3, 3+), Tempest Fury does 6 shots, 7 hits, 7/3 wounds, 7/6 failed saves, and 7/4 damage (accounting for their W3 profile); while the Pack does 3 shots, 7/2 hits, 7/4 wounds, 7/6 failed saves for 7/6 damage.

Now, T10-11 has the Pack doing DOUBLE on Wound Rolls. But unfortunately, because there's no T10-11 W1 models, the Fury basically always wins. Double shots, half wound rolls even out. I guess a T10-11 1+ armor model would see their damage equalize? But that doesn't exist to my knowledge.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in it
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Italy

 Hellebore wrote:
I grabbed the farseer pic from GW and opened it in affinity publisher (like Adobe InDesign but much cheaper). Just eyedroppered the colours to cover up the text with boxes and used as a background.

The datasheets gw have released for marines list their fonts so I found them online.

Ah very cool, I'm familiar with InDesign but not affinity. Very fortunate they specified which fonts they used as well. I actually like this kind of homebrew stuff, I think it's a fun way to take characters from your favorite novel (or previous edition of the game) and put them on a new datacard.
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Wyldhunt wrote:
Took me a while to look things over.

DISCLAIMERS:
* Overall, stuff looks neat. Most of my feedback will be a matter of personal preference. I know that you and I have differing views on what a phoenix lord should look like on the battlefield, and that's okay.

* I still don't have a strong grasp of what a "baseline" character is capable of in 10th, nor have I seen most of the aspect statlines yet. So I'll try to avoid commenting on how "strong" something is and comment more on vibes, rule complexity, etc.

OVERALL
* Personally, I don't picturing PLs as being physically strong enough or directly tough enough to warrant the strength and toughness stats you've given them, but I do understand the arguments for such stats.

* There are a lot of kill-better rules here. I tend not to be very fond of those in general, but they do seem to be pretty common in 10th.

* Mixed feelings on making them Lone Operatives. It's not inappropriate for them (especially guys like Maugan who don't fit in with their own aspect very well), and forcing them to hang out with units of their own aspect creates the classic problem of, "Why not just take another squad of that aspect instead?" But on the other hand, part of me feels like they really should probably be hanging out with their students.

Plus, if you *did* tie them to specific squads, it's easy to frame those squads as the guys they've been hanging out with and who have been directly benefitting from their teachings. At which point you could turn some of their auras/targeted buffs into benefits for their own squad. Which just feels a bit tidier to me.




My main issue with GW is that they've ingrained a bias towards marines for so long, that no one bats an eyelid when terminators get more T and W, primarchs jump 3pts of T!, or gravis armour goes to T6(!) or that custodian termies are T7, but you apply that same logic to any other army and you have to fight tooth and nail to justify it. if you look at the new Grimnar and Helbrect rules they both has sweep and strike attacks and make the phoenix lords pretty crappy by comparison which is to me a travesty.

No one is arguing for those marines stats to reduce again, but PLs dropped T in a game that was making things less lethal, lost their damage cap and lost a resurrection strategem.

It's like anything you do to marines to make them more uber is fine, because marines, but dare to suggest something else should be more uber and you get shot down.

The same kinds of fluff arguments to justify why terminators deserve the buff also works for the immortal soul infused suits of the phoenix lords, but the bias towards marines means it's always justified while anything else isn't. So that's where my frustration at these things comes from.


As for your comments, the main reason I made them lone operatives is because that's how they are portrayed in the fluff. They have no shrines, no students. They are permanent wanderers being drawn by the skeins of fate to important battles. They will lead their aspects in war, but they aren't their direct teachers. They don't have a gaggle of students following them around, but will meet up with the followers of their aspects when battle calls.

As for kill better rules - I assume you mean rules that just make them fight better rather than add strategems or tactics? My reasoning for this is that they aren't warlords or military leaders, they are ronin who join battles to turn the tide and then leave again. Their skills are entirely focused on their martial prowess and the slaughtering of foes and they've become supernatural demigods of war as a result.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

ASURMEN


The 10th ed rules seem to favour unique rules for each unit, rather than repeating them, which is the main reason I gave him the stands back up rule over the others. He's the first and mightiest so it makes sense to me.


 Wyldhunt wrote:

KARANDRAS


Fair enough. As he's a lone operative though, he's never abandoning anyone in combat. It's to reflect the unnatural stealth he's developed and how he can escape combat and strike from the shadow regardless of the enemies around. The Phoenix lords fight solo more often than they fight alongside their particular aspects, so I'm not convinced they should be squad leaders.

I can't imagine how given the stats GW gave them they could now ever survive wandering solo, they now NEED a bodyguard unit to not die instantly. T3 and W5 gets them killed by basic weapons without an ablative shield of other eldar - which is IMO also not particularly in keeping with how they would lead troops.


 Wyldhunt wrote:

BAHAROTH


I keep forgetting some of the interactions - I would make the grenade pack pistol as well just so they can both be used. I'm not fussed about whether it becomes a grenade strategem or not, but I like the ability to bomb people as well. In 2nd iirc they could drop grenades in the movement phase on any unit they flew over. Their grenade harness was actually their main weapon, not their lasgun.

The debuff in engagement range might be a better idea.


 Wyldhunt wrote:

JAIN ZAR


Happy to tweak the rules in the way you suggested. Blade of destruction was supposed to be a choice and I wanted her to have precision to give her a different role to the others rather than just another blender. Will have a look again at the stats to figure out how it should look.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

FUEGAN


Searsong is supposed to be a choose, I forgot to add the graphics. As the avatar's ranged profile got sustained 1D3 I assumed that's what they were replacing beam with so used it here.

I am most likely going to drop one of the two abilities to replace with +1 to hit as per the revealed phoenix lords as that seems like it's going to be a standard thing.

The rage manifesting as actual heat is something fuegan does do, so I was thinking about having it transfer to other dragons (like the avatar infects eldar with his rage). As he's supposed to be the last PL left alive at the Rhana Dandra I wanted to give him a rule that reflected his rage incinerating his enemies and healing, so you get the impression the more you fight him the longer he will last.

But if I'm adding the +1 to hit I'll probably remove burning rage.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

MAUGAN RA


Thanks for finding those typos. Yes he should be making it harder to succeed on a BS test! HIs toughness is riffing on his 2nd ed profile where he was T6 and tougher than almost every marine character... I might also drop his M down as well.

I'm definitely thinking about how to redo his rules and I like the idea of having precision in there somewhere. I'm still keen to have a literal harvest ability where he scythes the enemy at a distance across a wide area.

Maybe He targets up to 6 units and the doom incarnate simplifies down to hits cause battleshock and any casualties add 1 to the test.


I'll look at Irilyth, but I'm less familiar with him.

Thanks for your feedback.





   
 
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