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That one CSM box with the Raptors and Havocs is really unique in that among SC boxes as that it has three HQ's. Also, while I do like the new Combat Patrol, I kind of wish that they would just go back to the last Start Collecting box with the Shadowspear models, with the Great Possessed models replaced with one GP new model that serves as a new HQ. The old GP models can either be packaged with the Master of Possession, maybe as some kind of specialist bodyguard, or packaged with the regular Possessed kit.

I am disappointed that there were no old metal Chaos models. I didn't buy the metal DP model when it was released as a limited time offer, a decision that I now regret. Also, I want the old Terminator Lord with horns pointing down.

I'm hoping that Marks of Chaos can do more in the codex than they do right now. Nurgle Marines, for example, should have some kind of resilience ability. Also, what's the reason for Tzeentch units not being able to use Let The Galaxy Burn? It's random and unfluffy.

Dudeface wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm hoping that Marks of Chaos can do more in the codex than they do right now. Nurgle Marines, for example, should have some kind of resilience ability. Also, what's the reason for Tzeentch units not being able to use Let The Galaxy Burn? It's random and unfluffy.

I would prepare to be disappointed I think. Those sorts of marks need a point cost per unit because of how wildly they very in effectiveness per body.

One way it could be done is to make it another pacts ability, in addition to the weapon buff. Khorne units, for example, could get plus one to charge rolls, Nurgle could get plus one to save throws, Tzeentch could give a five plus invulnerable save and increase by one any units that already have invulnerable saves, and Slaanesh could give plus one movement.

Fayric wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Also, what's the reason for Tzeentch units not being able to use Let The Galaxy Burn? It's random and unfluffy.

The fluff is kind of stupid anyway. Traitors are so angry and bitter they pull the flamer trigger real hard. Huh?
And with that fluff, rubrics are dust, they cant psych up themself to rage-flame their opponents.

I can totally see a Chaos Space Marine holding his finger on the trigger of a flamer, laughing maniacally as he torches his enemies. Also, not all Tzeentch units are Rubrics. There are many CSM who embrace Tzeentch who are not Rubrics, as well whole warbands like the Scourged.

I'm worried that this might lead to the end of the regular DG Chaos Lord being in the army, as well as all of the options for gear he had. The model doesn't look bad from what I can tell, but I'm not sure if it's all that necessary to the army. Also, Death Guard don't need more leaders, but rather more troops choices like a replacement for Possessed.

 Tastyfish wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm worried that this might lead to the end of the regular DG Chaos Lord being in the army, as well as all of the options for gear he had. The model doesn't look bad from what I can tell, but I'm not sure if it's all that necessary to the army. Also, Death Guard don't need more leaders, but rather more troops choices like a replacement for Possessed.

Gellar pox could partially fill that role for when the sprues leave Kill Team's classified list. Wouldn't be far off the accursed cultists.

I do believe that they should be in the codex, though I think that we should also have a Nurgle equivalent of Eightbound. I think that it would be also cool to have Plague Marines riding on Bloat Drones, maybe with an accompanying lord on Bloat Drone. I'm surprised such a lord doesn't exist; all of the other god-specific lords get to ride on a daemon. The palanquin lord is ok, but just doesn't feel like the equivalent of the others.

When Cadia was destroyed, the various daemon factions immediately turned on each other. Coordinated multi-god armies are possible, but they usually require an extraordinary objective to be induced to do so, or be led by an extremely powerful and charismatic warlord.

I wonder if we're gonna get an in-lore fight between Lhykhis and Typhus, like is in that photo in the article?

Helbrutes are found in every CSM army, I'm not sure why EC wouldn't have them.

Just fold everything into one big Chaos codex, it would be better than whatever this mangled thing is.

Why don't we get the Forgefiend as well? It's literally the same kit.

Dudeface wrote:
For once, dakka is proving to actually be the least negative space online about all this.

I've had/have world eaters, I've had 2 years of vindicator puns made, I sort of get any upset.

That said, GW have refine what they want EC to be in 40k, they've orchestrated a book to fit that image. A lot of people pset are who wanted to play in a way that is now *not* what emperors children are (gunlines and/or CSM units).

However the missing units and their pre-existing army has been a CSM army for the last few decades, it still works perfectly fine as a CSM in pink/purple. All is not lost, you can also house rule stuff in outside of events.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daemons article is up, it's very ambiguous imo:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/waiesi3a/summon-the-daemons-of-slaanesh-with-an-outstanding-new-emperors-children-detachment/

Why can't EC field gunline armies? Their most iconic unit is made up of guys with guns. The stratagem Endless Cacophony allowed you to shoot twice and was used a lot on Obliterators. This new style of fighting the GW is forcing on the Emperor's Children is not necessarily more accurate, only more flanderized.

Dudeface wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
For once, dakka is proving to actually be the least negative space online about all this.

I've had/have world eaters, I've had 2 years of vindicator puns made, I sort of get any upset.

That said, GW have refine what they want EC to be in 40k, they've orchestrated a book to fit that image. A lot of people pset are who wanted to play in a way that is now *not* what emperors children are (gunlines and/or CSM units).

However the missing units and their pre-existing army has been a CSM army for the last few decades, it still works perfectly fine as a CSM in pink/purple. All is not lost, you can also house rule stuff in outside of events.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daemons article is up, it's very ambiguous imo:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/waiesi3a/summon-the-daemons-of-slaanesh-with-an-outstanding-new-emperors-children-detachment/

Why can't EC field gunline armies? Their most iconic unit is made up of guys with guns. The stratagem Endless Cacophony allowed you to shoot twice and was used a lot on Obliterators. This new style of fighting the GW is forcing on the Emperor's Children is not necessarily more accurate, only more flanderized.

Yes, that's what I said and a good example of the sort of anger spammed everywhere else.

Ok, I misunderstood. I don't understand why specialized CSM armies can't get the same treatment as SM, being able to take almost anything from the main SM codex, with exceptions for obvious lore (no psykers for WE, very few flesh-and-blood units for TS besides cultists, etc.).

 Overread wrote:
I think its an attempt to make them actually different as opposed to "the same army with a different paint scheme and shoulderpads"


This is just the first step of change and its clear GW focused very much on the marine component of the swapover with models. We kind of saw the same with Slaanesh in AoS - first we got a LOT of demonic leaders and nothing on the troops then we got a LOT of mortal troop followers and updates there.

So chances are this is not a one-and-done but part of an ongoing change and experiment. GW will likely flesh out EC with more and more options as time passes.




IT is curious that they lost one or two options along the way; maybe they really want them to be the glass-canon close combat focused army or all-comers; or perhaps they've new models in mind that might come out in months/years down the road etc...

Them getting new models in the future is guaranteed, I agree. However, in the meantime, I don't think it's right that EC and WE have to live with gimped armies when much of the stuff from the CSM codex is completely fluffy for their themes. World Eaters having only two foot HQ's, with one being a named character, is just insulting and doesn't make any sense.

Dudeface wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
Isn't there a rumor that the 1k Sons are gaining Automata?

What would that replace in their old list?

Ideally? Nothing.

But it will.

How do you know that? TS is already a very small army, so why would anything need to be cut?

 LunarSol wrote:
Again, its not saying EC will never have Helbrutes, just that they don't have access to the current Helbrute that's going to Legends soon.

How do we know that they're going to Legends?

 LunarSol wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Again, its not saying EC will never have Helbrutes, just that they don't have access to the current Helbrute that's going to Legends soon.

How do we know that they're going to Legends?

We don't, but its an outdated model that's only sold in Star Collecting. Singles are Webstore exclusive and not even available on the webstore. That's all the signs of a model getting a resculpt and I'm sure GW would like it to be more in line with the Redemptor. Not being in EC to me screams that they just don't want to sell them to people starting this "new" army only to be replaced soon.

It's not outdated, it looks perfectly fine alongside the rest of the CSM line. An update wouldn't be the worst thing, but I'm failing to see how it could be improved upon by the standards of modern GW sculpting.

 LunarSol wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Again, its not saying EC will never have Helbrutes, just that they don't have access to the current Helbrute that's going to Legends soon.

How do we know that they're going to Legends?

We don't, but its an outdated model that's only sold in Star Collecting. Singles are Webstore exclusive and not even available on the webstore. That's all the signs of a model getting a resculpt and I'm sure GW would like it to be more in line with the Redemptor. Not being in EC to me screams that they just don't want to sell them to people starting this "new" army only to be replaced soon.

It's not outdated, it looks perfectly fine alongside the rest of the CSM line. An update wouldn't be the worst thing, but I'm failing to see how it could be improved upon by the standards of modern GW sculpting.

If nothing else they'd scale it up so it isn't like a third of the size of a Redemptor.

But isn't that one supposed to be extra large in compared to traditional dreadnoughts?

Dudeface wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Again, its not saying EC will never have Helbrutes, just that they don't have access to the current Helbrute that's going to Legends soon.

How do we know that they're going to Legends?

We don't, but its an outdated model that's only sold in Star Collecting. Singles are Webstore exclusive and not even available on the webstore. That's all the signs of a model getting a resculpt and I'm sure GW would like it to be more in line with the Redemptor. Not being in EC to me screams that they just don't want to sell them to people starting this "new" army only to be replaced soon.

It's not outdated, it looks perfectly fine alongside the rest of the CSM line. An update wouldn't be the worst thing, but I'm failing to see how it could be improved upon by the standards of modern GW sculpting.

If nothing else they'd scale it up so it isn't like a third of the size of a Redemptor.

But isn't that one supposed to be extra large in compared to traditional dreadnoughts?

Lets spin this around, the helbrute is about the size of Abaddon or some other on foot characters, they be teeny now.

That's a good point, I haven't thought of that.

I do love the new daemon rules, especially when it comes to souping in CSM. But why was Karanak moved to Legends? That's a pretty new model. Both it and the Slaanesh chariots are temporarily out of stock, but so are a bunch of other daemon units and they fortunately stayed. Epidemius, who doesn't even have a model listed in the store, has rules. It's all so strange, and is yet another example of GW seemingly playing games with people's collections.

Tastyfish wrote:Do the daemon units have different 40K and AoS boxes? They're all in the dual system white boxes aren't they?

Right now, many of them are being sold in AoS boxes, but with the 40k logo on the box as well.


In other news, the Chaos Lord model isn't to be found in the Death Guard section of the site anymore, though I don't know if the new model ever was. I really hope DG don't lose access to it.

Lord Damocles wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I really hope DG don't lose access to it.

Get with the programme. He's been out behind the woodshed for ages now.

He fills a role by being a generalist leader for Plague Marines, as all the other leaders are specialists. Also, his Dessication Conduit rule is quite good when coupled with the Nurgle's Gift rule.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Lord Damocles wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I really hope DG don't lose access to it.

Get with the programme. He's been out behind the woodshed for ages now.

He fills a role by being a generalist leader for Plague Marines, as all the other leaders are specialists. Also, his Dessication Conduit rule is quite good when coupled with the Nurgle's Gift rule.

Now there's a new one with a set weapon loadout. Get churned.

Are you referring to the new Chaos Lord model for CSM or something else?

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Lord Damocles wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I really hope DG don't lose access to it.

Get with the programme. He's been out behind the woodshed for ages now.

He fills a role by being a generalist leader for Plague Marines, as all the other leaders are specialists. Also, his Dessication Conduit rule is quite good when coupled with the Nurgle's Gift rule.

Now there's a new one with a set weapon loadout. Get churned.

Are you referring to the new Chaos Lord model for CSM or something else?

There's a new Nurgle lord coming:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/elxrte0d/lvo-preview-2025-nurgle-coughs-up-a-new-lord-of-poxes/

That's another specialist.

xttz wrote:Who wants some KT datasheets?

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_warhammer40000_goremongers_datasheet-v7ofc9jogl-bsmuycrjl1.pdf

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_wh40k_otherrules_sororitas_sanctifiers_apr25-ltbrxbrijo-puqsdteq1f.pdf

Goremongers look like a decent and needed utility piece for world eaters, I expect to see at least one unit in every vaguely competitive list

The harpoon looks good, but the rest strikes me as underwhelming. The chainblades should at least have some ap.

JWBS wrote:Repaint makes it worse. This is like when people paint their Knights in chapter colours or something, bit of an immersion downgrade.

What's wrong with Knights in chapter colors? I can totally see a Knight closely linked to a particular chapter rocking that chapter's heraldry.

Getting an op detachment or rule is the worst thing that can happen to a faction, as sooner or later, it's highly likely that it's going to be nerfed into irrelevancy, far more than it needs to.

The Lord of Poxes' blade looks like a thunder hammer that hits on two's. I wonder if the Gift of Poxes aura will work when inside a transport.

I like the Slaughterbound's model, but his melee profile should at least have sustained hits. Also, I would much rather have an ability that buffs the whole unit it's leading rather than Possessed Lord.

 Gert wrote:
So the WE/Daemon detachment is Khorne Daemonkin.

Welcome back my favourite army I guess?

Unfortunately without access to all Khorne daemons.

Will Space Wolves have access to both Wolf Guard Terminators and regular Space Marine Terminators? If they were Chaos, they most certainly would not.

 BorderCountess wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, why tbe codex supplement concept is reserved exclusively for loyalist astartes and not chaos marines baffles my mind. TS, DG, WE, and EC should be codex supplements really.

It gives them a chance to have different faction rules, like Cabal of Sorcerers, or to let certain units do different things entirely (like a Maulerfiend behaving differently in each book). Also, you don't have to tell each Legion what units they can't take - the list for the Thousand Sons would be huge...

The only units that I think TS would be able to take for lore reasons would be the Venomcrawler and Master of Possessions, and taking the MoP might be redundant since the Infernal Master is almost the same thing. The Dark Commune, Torments and Accursed Cultists could also be put in there, but I think that GW will be giving TS their own cultists. I actually made a list of what CSM units that I think that Thousand Sons, Death Guard, World Eaters and Emperor's Children should be able to take:

World Eaters:
Chaos Lord
Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor
Chaos Lord with Jump Pack
Warpsmith
Dark Apostle (if no bespoke priest unit)
Chaos Vindicator
Havocs (if no bespoke heavy weapons unit)
Raptors/Warp Talons (if no bespoke flying unit)
Obliterators
Venomcrawler
Lord Discordant
Bikers (if no bespoke mounted unit, or existing beside Skullcrushers)

Thousand Sons:
Master of Possession (possibly redundant)
Dark Commune (if no similar bespoke unit)
Torments/Accursed Cultists (if no similar bespoke cultists)
Venomcrawler

Death Guard:
Warpsmith (if no similar bespoke unit)
Master of Executions
Maulerfiend/Forgefiend
Havocs (if no bespoke heavy weapons unit)
Chaos Vindicator
Possessed (taken out of Legends, and if no similar bespoke unit)
Master of Possession (if no similar bespoke unit)
Obliterators
Venomcrawler
Heldrake

Emperor’s Children:
Chaos Lord (possibly redundant due to Lord Exultant)
Chaos Lord/Sorcerer in Terminator Armor
Chaos Lord with Jump Pack
Chosen (if no similar bespoke unit)
Master of Executions
Warpsmith
Lord Discordant
Chaos Vindicator
Chaos Predator
Forgefiend
Defiler
Havocs (if no bespoke heavy weapons unit)
Chaos Cultists (if no similar bespoke unit)
Cultist Firebrand (if no similar bespoke unit)
Master of Possession (if no similar bespoke unit)
Dark Commune (if no similar bespoke unit)
Accursed Cultists/Torments (if no similar bespoke unit)
Possessed (possibly redundant due to Flawless Blades)
Obliterators
Venomcrawler
Dark Apostle (if no bespoke priest unit)
Bikers (if no bespoke mounted unit)
Raptors/Warp Talons

 cuda1179 wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, why tbe codex supplement concept is reserved exclusively for loyalist astartes and not chaos marines baffles my mind. TS, DG, WE, and EC should be codex supplements really.

It gives them a chance to have different faction rules, like Cabal of Sorcerers, or to let certain units do different things entirely (like a Maulerfiend behaving differently in each book). Also, you don't have to tell each Legion what units they can't take - the list for the Thousand Sons would be huge...

The only units that I think TS would be able to take for lore reasons would be the Venomcrawler and Master of Possessions, and taking the MoP might be redundant since the Infernal Master is almost the same thing. The Dark Commune, Torments and Accursed Cultists could also be put in there, but I think that GW will be giving TS their own cultists. I actually made a list of what CSM units that I think that Thousand Sons, Death Guard, World Eaters and Emperor's Children should be able to take:

World Eaters:
Chaos Lord
Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor
Chaos Lord with Jump Pack
Warpsmith
Dark Apostle (if no bespoke priest unit)
Chaos Vindicator
Havocs (if no bespoke heavy weapons unit)
Raptors/Warp Talons (if no bespoke flying unit)
Obliterators
Venomcrawler
Lord Discordant
Bikers (if no bespoke mounted unit, or existing beside Skullcrushers)

Thousand Sons:
Master of Possession (possibly redundant)
Dark Commune (if no similar bespoke unit)
Torments/Accursed Cultists (if no similar bespoke cultists)
Venomcrawler

Death Guard:
Warpsmith (if no similar bespoke unit)
Master of Executions
Maulerfiend/Forgefiend
Havocs (if no bespoke heavy weapons unit)
Chaos Vindicator
Possessed (taken out of Legends, and if no similar bespoke unit)
Master of Possession (if no similar bespoke unit)
Obliterators
Venomcrawler
Heldrake

Emperor’s Children:
Chaos Lord (possibly redundant due to Lord Exultant)
Chaos Lord/Sorcerer in Terminator Armor
Chaos Lord with Jump Pack
Chosen (if no similar bespoke unit)
Master of Executions
Warpsmith
Lord Discordant
Chaos Vindicator
Chaos Predator
Havocs (if no bespoke heavy weapons unit)
Chaos Cultists (if no similar bespoke unit)
Cultist Firebrand (if no similar bespoke unit)
Master of Possession (if no similar bespoke unit)
Dark Commune (if no similar bespoke unit)
Accursed Cultists/Torments (if no similar bespoke unit)
Possessed (possibly redundant due to Flawless Blades)
Obliterators
Venomcrawler
Dark Apostle (if no bespoke priest unit)
Bikers (if no bespoke mounted unit)
Raptors/Warp Talons

What? No love for Predators?

All of the these factions have access to Predators except for Emperor's Children. The units that I posted here are units that these armies don't have access to that I think that they should. Also, I forgot to add Defilers and Forgefiends to the EC list. Forgefiends being absent from the current roster makes absolutely no sense.