Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/17 19:39:18
Subject: 10th Chaos Daemons Detachments
|
 |
Loyal Necron Lychguard
|
Design Goals Create 5 Chaos Daemons Detachments that are each geared toward a thematic warfare strategy Chaos Daemons employ and give different playstyles and experiences while allowing the use of an almost infinite number of lists within each detachment. 4 of the Detachments are loosely and informally tied with a Chaos God. The reason this tie is informal and not strict is because there is no reason why you cannot make a pure Slaanesh army if you so choose, there is no inherent synergy between Bloodcrushers and Daemonettes, so if you would rather pair your Bloodcrushers with Bloodletters then you can freely do so, you do not need to be forced to do so by a Khorne Detachment that increases your Khorny-ness at the cost of restricting you purely to Khorne units. I am hoping on some input or neat ideas I can incorporate into these Detachments before I fully flesh everything out. Warp Storm Detachment Rule: Pandaemonium All enemy units must take Battle-shock tests at the start of each of your turns. Stratagems: KHORNE’S WRATH (1 CP) WHEN: Start of your Command phase. TARGET: One enemy unit. You may target one LEGIONES DAEMONICA SLAANESH unit from your army that is within engagement range of an enemy unit, if you do you may select an additional unit from your opponent's army. EFFECT: If a target of this Stratagem falls back before the start of your next turn it suffers D6+2 mortal wounds. STORM OF FIRE (2 CP) WHEN: At the end of your opponent's Movement phase. TARGET: One enemy unit that remained stationary. You may target one LEGIONES DAEMONICA NURGLE unit from your army, if you do you may select an additional unit from your opponent's army. EFFECT: Each target suffers 2 mortal wounds. Until the end of your turn Battle-shocked targets of this Stratagem may not shoot. ROT, GLORIOUS ROT (1 CP) WHEN: In your opponent's Movement phase when a unit advances or when a unit arrives from reinforcements. You may use this Stratagem after your opponent makes their Advance roll. TARGET: The enemy unit. You may target one LEGIONES DAEMONICA TZEENTCH unit from your army in reserves, if you do you may select an additional unit from your opponent's army. EFFECT: Targets must subtract 2 from Advance and Charge rolls until the end of your turn. THE DARK PRINCE THIRSTS (1 CP) WHEN: An enemy attacks. TARGET: The enemy unit. You may target one LEGIONES DAEMONICA KHORNE unit, if you do you may select an additional unit from your opponent's army. EFFECT: Until the end of the current battle round targets reduce their Toughness characteristic by 1 until the end of the current battle round if the unit attacks and none of their attacks cause unsaved wounds, this effect does not stack. The Storm Abates (2 CP) When: At the start of your turn, before rolling for Pandaemonium. Effect: Do not roll for Pandaemonium this turn. Instead, friendly LEGIONES DAEMONICA units within the Shadow of Chaos improve their Invulnerable saves by 1. Punished by the Gods (1 CP) When: A friendly LEGIONES DAEMONICA unit is Battle-shocked. Target: The unit that is Battle-shocked. Effect: Deal D3 Mortal Wounds to the target, it is no longer Battle-shocked. Enhancements: Aspect of Death (20 pts) Add 3 to the bearer's Attacks characteristic when the bearer is below full Strength. Subtract 4 from the bearer's Attacks characteristic when the bearer is below half strength. Tyrant of the Warp (20 pts) [PSYCHIC] attacks of friendly LEGIONES DAEMONICA units within 6" of the bearer are [HAZARDOUS] and [TWIN-LINKED]. Fractal Mind (20 pts) Units within 6" of the bearer roll 3D6 for Battle-shock tests and discard the highest result. Epicurean of Paradoxes (20 pts) Enemy units within 6" of the bearer or attacking the bearer always fail to hit on 6s and critically hit on 1s. Daemonic Onslaught Revised Daemonic Incursion. Removed the incentive to spam Greater Daemons and created encouragement for going mono-god. In addition to four god-locked Daemon weapons (of which your army can only include 1), there are 3 Enhancement tables, you have to roll at the start of each battle to see which Enhancement you get. This is meant to increase the randomness of the Chaos Daemons and bring back a hated element from an earlier edition, that was pretty fun and flavourful in some ways, hopefully in a palatable manner. Detachment Rule: Exalted Legion Daemonic legions tear through the fabric of realspace, malevolent entities flickering into being like phantasms from a nightmare. Worse still, as terror and panic take hold of their victims, so their mortal souls become ever easier prey for the entities pouring through from the warp. Each time a LEGIONES DAEMONICA unit from your army is set up on the battlefield using the Deep Strike ability, if it is set up wholly within your army’s Shadow of Chaos, it can be set up anywhere that is more than 6" horizontally away from all enemy models, instead of more than 9". Choose one MONSTER CHARACTER to be your Exalted Daemon spread your army's Shadow of Chaos to units within 6" of that unit, increased to 12" if your army only contains either KHORNE, TZEENTCH, NURGLE or SLAANESH units and only LEGIONES DAEMONICA units. Stratagems CORRUPT REALSPACE WARP SURGE DRAUGHT OF TERROR DENIZENS OF THE WARP THE REALM OF CHAOS DAEMONIC INVULNERABILITY Lesser Enhancement 10 pts Whip of Agony Greater Enhancement 20 pts Plague Fly Hive Exalted Enhancement 30 pts Lorekeeper of Tzeentch Hellforged Enhancement 40 pts Argath King of Blades Malevolent Infiltration Detachment Rule: Dark Machinations Generate a number of Dark dice at the start of each battle round equal to the number of units on the battlefield (friend or foe). The result of the Dark dice is equal to the turn they were generated (1s turn 1, 2s turn 2 and so on). Before making a dice roll for a LEGIONES DAEMONICA model or unit from your army, if you have one or more Dark dice, you may select one of your Dark dice to substitute that dice roll (if a roll involves more than one dice, e.g. a Charge roll or Battle-shock test, only a single dice can be substituted). The dice that is being substituted is not rolled; instead, the value of the selected Dark dice is used as if it had been rolled ( this counts as an unmodified dice roll of that value for all rules purposes), then roll all remaining, unsubstituted dice that are a part of the dice roll. Each Dark dice can only be selected for substitution once. You can use Dark dice for any of the following types of dice roll: Advance roll Battle-shock test Charge roll Damage roll Hit roll Saving throw Wound roll Each unit from your army can only use one Dark dice per phase. In addition the Stratagems for this Detachment require a roll to see which effect they take, instead of rolling for the effect you may substitute a Dark dice for the roll to see which effect it has. Stratagems: Stratagems for Malevolent Infiltration have random effects depending on a dice roll. The randomness helps to balance out the otherwise predictable nature of the Detachment and offers uses for the lower results on your Dark Dice, either by allowing you to pick a preferable effect on a random table or by recycling or upgrading some number of Dark Dice. Enhancements: Focus on deployment and start of game effects, declaring your master plan and outwitting enemy troop deployments and things of that sort. Endless Corruption Detachment Rule: Corrupted Domain Corrupted Domain: At the start of any phase, if a piece of terrain is within your army’s Shadow of Chaos, it becomes permanently Corrupted. Corrupted terrain counts as being within your army's Shadow of Chaos. Increase the effect of Daemonic Manifestation and Daemonic Terror from D3 to D6 for units within Corrupted Terrain. Stratagems: INFERNAL GAZE – 1CP Unholy power streams forth from the Daemon’s eyes, charring the soul of an enemy champion. WHEN: At the start of the Fight phase. TARGET: One enemy CHARACTER unit within 6" of a friendly LEGIONES DAEMONICA unit. EFFECT: Until the end of the phase, subtract 1 from the target’s Attack characteristic. If the target is within 6" of Corrupted terrain, subtract 2 instead. CURSED EARTH – 1CP Reality tears at the seams as the unholy power of the warp seeps into the land, leaving a scar that forever serves the Daemons of Chaos. WHEN: Start of your Command phase. TARGET: One piece of terrain within 6" of a friendly LEGIONES DAEMONICA unit. EFFECT: Permanently corrupt the targeted terrain. It counts as being within your army's Shadow of Chaos for the rest of the battle. DARK FLAME – 1CP An eruption of unholy fire spreads through cursed lands, sapping the courage of mortal foes and consuming their resolve. WHEN: At the start of the Battle-shock phase. TARGET: One enemy unit within 6" of Corrupted terrain. EFFECT: The target automatically fails its Battle-shock test this phase. INCURSION – 2CP The fortifications of Chaos shift and realign, making room for daemonic advances and reinforcing the strength of the corrupted foothold. WHEN: Start of your Movement phase. TARGET: One LEGIONES DAEMONICA FORTIFICATION unit from your army. EFFECT: Move the target up to 6" in any direction. It must remain within your army's Shadow of Chaos and cannot end its move within 3" of an enemy unit. SACRIFICE – 1CP The Daemon saps the vitality of its minions, channeling their life force to amplify the corruption and spread Chaos’s influence. WHEN: At the start of any phase. TARGET: One friendly LEGIONES DAEMONICA unit within 6" of the center of the battlefield or an objective marker. EFFECT: The target suffers 2 mortal wounds. The center of the battlefield or objective marker is temporarily corrupted until the end of the phase and counts as Corrupted terrain for the purposes of your Detachment rules. SUMMONING – 2CP The corruption of the battlefield creates rifts through which more Daemons spill forth to crush the foe. WHEN: When an enemy unit Advances or declares a charge within 6" of Corrupted terrain. TARGET: The terrain feature the enemy unit is interacting with. EFFECT: Set up one friendly LEGIONES DAEMONICA unit from Deep Strike wholly within the Corrupted terrain feature, more than 3" horizontally away from all enemy models. This unit cannot declare a charge this turn. Enhancements: Endless Corruption Enhancements corrupts units within 6" of the bearer at the end of your Command phase, put a Growth/Joy/Rhythm/Life counter on each of the units within range without one. Enemy units with a single counter suffer from the corruption effect of the Enhancement they were corrupted by until the start of your next Command phase. Put an additional counter (max 3) of the same type on units that are corrupted at the start of your Command phase. Enemy units suffer from the malady effect of the Enhancement when they get their second counter until they get their third counter. All units gain the effects of the Enhancement's Recovery while they have 3 of that Enhancement's counters. Locus of Growth (30 pts) The bearer’s presence warps the natural world, forcing unnatural growth to take root. Movement becomes a laborious struggle as bloated forms stumble under their own weight. Corrupted (Corpulence): This unit's Movement characteristic is lowered by 1. Malady (Growing Stuck): This unit suffers 3 mortal wounds if it remains stationary. Recovery (Protective Layer): This unit's Movement characteristic is lowered by 1 and its Toughness characteristic is increased by 1. Locus of Joy (20 pts) An aura of erratic euphoria spreads from the bearer, driving those nearby to reckless abandon. This unstable confidence fractures into uncontrollable despair. Corrupted (Unbridled Confidence): This unit cannot fall back. Malady (Manic Breakdown): This unit takes a Battle-shock test. Recovery (Erratic): This unit automatically passes Battle-shock tests but does not benefit from friendly Stratagems. Locus of Life (20 pts) The bearer radiates a virulent presence, unleashing plagues that rot the body and infect all who come near. Those who endure carry the scars of its passing. Corrupted (Fever): No effect. Malady (Vomit Outbreak): Reduce the Strength of this unit's Melee weapons by 1 and put a Life infection counter on units within 6" of this unit without any Life infection counters. Recovery (Cycle of Infection): This unit loses all Life infection counters. Locus of Rhythm (20 pts) The bearer disrupts the natural flow of life, creating an unsettling cadence of imbalance. Those affected fall into irregular patterns, straining against their own failing bodies. Corrupted (Heart Arrhythmia): This unit subtracts 1 from its hit rolls. Malady (Cardiac Arrest): When this unit advances or fights, it suffers 1 mortal wound. Recovery (Measured Effort): This unit advances 3" instead of D6", regardless of any other abilities or effects. Neverborn Crossroad Detachment Rule: Infernal Predators Add +1 to hit rolls against enemy units that are Exposed or Battle-shocked. A target is considered Exposed if a line drawn from any part of the attacking unit’s base or hull to any part of the another friendly unit’s base or hull passes over any part of the target unit without passing over a terrain feature or a second enemy unit. Stratagems: Stratagems for Neverborn Crossroad focus on giving the opponent hard choices, introducing an element of randomness for the Chaos Daemons player. Eternal Rivalry (2CP) Effect: At the start of your turn, target one enemy unit and one of your units on the battlefield, your opponent targets one of your units and one of their units. Until the end of the turn, targets of this Stratagem from your army gain +1 to hit rolls against targets of this Stratagem from your opponent's army. Enhancements: Enhancements are designed to support the Detachment’s theme of exploiting weaknesses and hard choices with once-per game effects. Warp Strider Once per battle, the bearer can Fall Back, Shoot, and Charge in the same turn. This ability must be declared at the start of your Movement phase. Touch of Uncreation Once per battle, the first time the bearer makes an attack, inflict 3 mortal wounds on the target. Burning Blood Once per battle, when the bearer suffers damage from an enemy attack, you can activate this enhancement. Every enemy unit within 6" of the bearer immediately suffers 1 mortal wound. Transitory Favour Once per battle, at the start of any battle round, you can activate this enhancement to improve the bearer’s Save characteristic to 3+ for the duration of that round. If the bearer already has a 3+ Save or better, instead, they gain a 4+ invulnerable save for that round.
|
This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2024/11/25 05:31:49
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/18 00:24:48
Subject: Re:10th Chaos Daemons Detachments
|
 |
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
|
Warp Storm, combined with Shadow of Chaos, is pretty potent.
Don’t bring back random upgrades.
Giving a Fate Die for EVERY unit is bonkers. Just far too many.
Endless Corruption needs more details to judge.
Crossroad feels pretty hard to implement in a sensible fashion.
|
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/18 03:47:52
Subject: 10th Chaos Daemons Detachments
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
vict0988 wrote:Design Goals
... there is no inherent synergy between Bloodcrushers and Daemonettes, so if you would rather pair your Bloodcrushers with Bloodletters then you can freely do so, you do not need to be forced to do so by a Khorne Detachment that increases your Khorny-ness at the cost of restricting you purely to Khorne units...
Well, there's no inherent synergy with those particular units, but there is added flexibility to letting people take units from various gods, right? Like, being able to get some shooting with tzeentch, some objective holders with nurgle, some punch with khorne, etc. is inherently stronger than sticking to the often one-trick-pony gimmicks of a given chaos god. So I could see why a monogod daemon player might be hoping for a reason to field a monogod army rather than feeling like they're hamstringing themselves by doing so. Plus, god-specific detachments would be an opportunity to introduce a mechanic/subsystem that tells the story of a specific god's gimmick. Picture "plague tokens" spreading through the ranks of enemies that end a phase too close together, Tzeentchy magic rituals or prophecy mechanics that manipulate tactical objectives, Slaaneshi Temptation dice, something blood-tithe-esque for Khorne, etc.
Not that there's anything wrong with god-agnostic detachments or multi-god armies.
Warp Storm
Detachment Rule: Wave of Despair
All enemy units must take Battle-shock tests at the start of each of your turns.
Stratagems:
The Stratagems for the Warp Storm Detachment mitigate the randomness of the Detachment rule.
Enhancements:
Enhancements will not be limited by alignment. The main thing here will be ways to benefit from enemies passing Battle-shock or negatively impacting enemies taking Battle-shock tests.
Hard to judge any of these without more details, but table-wide battle-shock tests every turn is a red flag for me purely because it's basically the once-per-game army-wide rule tyranids have, but usable every single turn. I also worry that, especially with strats making battleshock less random (read: your opponent fails more often), this detachment causes your opponent to feel like they're prevented from playing their army/making meaningful decisions. If your army's most common Ld stat is a 7+, then that means just under half your army is going to randomly not be targetable by stratagems every turn with nearly no counterplay to that.
If you want this to essentially be the daemon version of the the tyranid vanguard detachment (lots of abilities causing battleshock and granting benefits against shocked targets), then I'd suggest chanigng the detachment rule and/or providing more counterplay. Maybe the battleshock test is only for enemy units within your shadow, for instance. Or maybe all the battleshock tests come from strats and enhancements with the detachment rule being a benefit vs shocked units.
Daemonic Onslaught
Revised Daemonic Incursion. Instead of 4 Enhancements, there are 4 Enhancement tables, you have to roll at the start of each battle to see which Enhancement you get, depending on the table and the bearer's alignment you may be able to pick a different option. This is meant to increase the randomness of the Chaos Daemons and bring back a hated element from an earlier edition, that was pretty fun and flavourful in some ways, hopefully in a palatable manner.
So I only have a few daemons, and I don't play them very often, but I wasn't a fan of the random wargear/warlord trait/psychic power thing back in the day. Setting aside the fact that despite the name chaos daemons aren't generally depicted as all that "chaotic" in a lot of the lore... Random powers/wargear actively discourages you from doing cool conversions or writing fluff that explains why you have special ability X, etc. Plus, it's hard to incentivize random upgrades. If someone really hates the idea choosing their own gear, they can probably just roll to randomly decide which units/enhancements to take when building their list. I'm not sure this detachment concept really adds much.
Malevolent Infiltration
Detachment Rule: Dark Machinations
Units benefit from a system of Fate Dice (Dark Dice), 1 dice per friendly and enemy units, the dice equal the turn number of the turn they were generated (1s turn 1, 5s turn 5).
Stratagems:
Stratagems for Malevolent Infiltration have random effects depending on a dice roll. The randomness helps to balance out the otherwise predictable nature of the Detachment and offers uses for the lower results on your Dark Dice, either by allowing you to pick a preferable effect on a random table or by recycling or upgrading some number of Dark Dice.
Enhancements:
Focus on deployment and start of game effects, declaring your master plan and outwitting enemy troop deployments and things of that sort.
Interesting, but probably a bad idea. For context, eldar went from starting the game with 13(?) fate dice to only 6 because having that many to begin with was just too much. Further, fate and miracle dice both have a lot of restrictions on how often you can spend them whereas this kind of implies that such restrictions would either be loose or wouldn't exist (because otherwise you're just not using most of the dice you generate.) Seems like an MSU army would just... never fail any important rolls ever in the second half of the game, and big daemons would be auto-hitting/wounding left and right starting on turn 2.
I'm not entirely sure what fluff this detachment is trying to convey either. Carefully cultivated master plans aren't generally a daemon thing outside of Tzeentch. So maybe this is just meant to be a Tzeentch detachment? If you really want to play around with a fate dice mechanic, I'd suggest trying something that sticks a little closer to the current Strands of Fate/Miracle Dice rules. But I'm also not sure this would be my favorite way to design a "Tzeentchy" detachment. Heck, I'm not even that big a fan of fate dice with my eldar because they tend to be kind of feels-bad for your opponent.
Endless Corruption
Detachment Rule: Corrupted Domain
The Detachment focuses on corrupting terrain and spreading debuffs to enemy units. It enhances the effects of Daemonic Manifestation and Daemonic Terror based on the corruption of terrain features, allowing your units to grind down the enemy with a mixture of hurting the enemy and healing friendly units.
Stratagems:
Stratagems for Endless Corruption are geared towards amplifying the impact of corrupted terrain.
Enhancements:
Enhancements are Locuses that provide auras affecting units within a specific range. These Locuses can be taken multiple times but are alignment-locked and the effects do not stack.
The idea of corrupting terrain features is a fun high concept. Again, would largely depend on execution. Aura-style enhancements always make me nervous because I'm not eager to return to 8th/9th style aura bubbles that whole armies huddle around. And if the the enhancements are alignment-locked, that kind of suggests that you're going to create one enhancement per god, so actively discouraging people from running monogod. (If you don't have a cheap unit you can slot in to use up points, then you just functionally have fewer enhancement options than multi-god players.) I'm also not sure that the concept of corrupting terrain necessarily calls for alignment locking. Nothing about the trees growing tendrils and ruins growing mouths screams, "alignment-locked enhancements" to me.
Neverborn Crossroad
Detachment Rule: Infernal Predators
The Detachment emphasizes exploiting enemy vulnerabilities. It provides bonuses when attacking enemy units that are Exposed (surrounded/GSC 9e Crossfire) or Battle-shocked, reflecting the predatory nature of the daemons.
Stratagems:
Stratagems for Neverborn Crossroad focus on giving the opponent hard choices, introducing an element of randomness for the Chaos Daemons player.
Again, depends on execution. It's hard to comment much without more details. GSC-style crossfire seems unlikely to come up much for daemons given that they don't have a ton of shooting to begin with. "Surrounded" isn't a term that has a clear definition in 10th, so I'd be curious to see how you'd define such a thing. I guess you could just go with outnumbered-in-melee or in-engagement-range-of-multiple-daemon-units or something.
Nothing about being surrounded or outnumbered screams, "gives the opponent hard choices," to me, and giving your opponent hard choices doesn't seem like it would innately create randomness for yourself. Are you trying to hint at some sort of temptation die mechanic here? The name of the detachment kind of makes me think that you're going for a vaguely Slaaneshi detachment here?
Enhancements:
Enhancements are designed to support the Detachment’s theme of exploiting weaknesses, providing additional benefits when attacking specific types of enemy units.
As written, this suggests that you're just going to create some kill-more-better enhancements that increase lethality vs certain keywords. If so, I'm personally not a fan of that sort of thing.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/18 07:16:22
Subject: Re:10th Chaos Daemons Detachments
|
 |
Loyal Necron Lychguard
|
Might be, I will try to take it into account when designing the Stratagems, so a bit on the less powerful side but more reliable and flexible. Don’t bring back random upgrades.
I liked the ones that Transcendent C'tan got in 9th. Giving a Fate Die for EVERY unit is bonkers. Just far too many.
You'll get 30ish 1s turn 1, 20ish 2s turn 2, 15ish 3s turn 3, 10 4s turn 4, 6 5s turn 5. Is the book-keeping or powerlevel borked or did you misunderstand the intent? Endless Corruption needs more details to judge.
Fair, just looking for initial ideas and if I'm missing anything that would be super cool and flavourful. Crossroad feels pretty hard to implement in a sensible fashion.
The Detachment ability or the Stratagems? For the Detachment I'm copying the wording off Genestealer Cults, for the Stratagem I have Eternal Rivalry (Cost: 2CP): Effect: At the start of your turn, target one enemy unit and one of your units on the battlefield, your opponent targets one of your units and one of their units. Until the end of the turn, targets of this Stratagem from your army gain +1 to hit rolls against targets of this Stratagem from your opponent's army. Wyldhunt wrote: vict0988 wrote:Design Goals ... there is no inherent synergy between Bloodcrushers and Daemonettes, so if you would rather pair your Bloodcrushers with Bloodletters then you can freely do so, you do not need to be forced to do so by a Khorne Detachment that increases your Khorny-ness at the cost of restricting you purely to Khorne units...
Well, there's no inherent synergy with those particular units, but there is added flexibility to letting people take units from various gods, right? Like, being able to get some shooting with tzeentch, some objective holders with nurgle, some punch with khorne, etc. is inherently stronger than sticking to the often one-trick-pony gimmicks of a given chaos god. So I could see why a monogod daemon player might be hoping for a reason to field a monogod army rather than feeling like they're hamstringing themselves by doing so. Plus, god-specific detachments would be an opportunity to introduce a mechanic/subsystem that tells the story of a specific god's gimmick. Picture "plague tokens" spreading through the ranks of enemies that end a phase too close together, Tzeentchy magic rituals or prophecy mechanics that manipulate tactical objectives, Slaaneshi Temptation dice, something blood-tithe-esque for Khorne, etc. Not that there's anything wrong with god-agnostic detachments or multi-god armies.
A flexible army doesn't necessarily have a higher chance of winning than one that is inflexible and does one job really well. As a Khorne player you would have more flexibility with 5 viable Detachments than 2. Making everything generic rather than God specific is a challenge, I will see if I can't incorporate some of your ideas into my Detachments. Warp Storm Detachment Rule: Wave of Despair All enemy units must take Battle-shock tests at the start of each of your turns. Stratagems: The Stratagems for the Warp Storm Detachment mitigate the randomness of the Detachment rule. Enhancements: Enhancements will not be limited by alignment. The main thing here will be ways to benefit from enemies passing Battle-shock or negatively impacting enemies taking Battle-shock tests.
Hard to judge any of these without more details, but table-wide battle-shock tests every turn is a red flag for me purely because it's basically the once-per-game army-wide rule tyranids have, but usable every single turn. I also worry that, especially with strats making battleshock less random (read: your opponent fails more often), this detachment causes your opponent to feel like they're prevented from playing their army/making meaningful decisions. If your army's most common Ld stat is a 7+, then that means just under half your army is going to randomly not be targetable by stratagems every turn with nearly no counterplay to that. If you want this to essentially be the daemon version of the the tyranid vanguard detachment (lots of abilities causing battleshock and granting benefits against shocked targets), then I'd suggest chanigng the detachment rule and/or providing more counterplay. Maybe the battleshock test is only for enemy units within your shadow, for instance. Or maybe all the battleshock tests come from strats and enhancements with the detachment rule being a benefit vs shocked units.
A big part of this is wanting to rehabilitate some of the frustrating elements of 6th edition Chaos Daemons, which had you roll on a table and half the results on the table had you roll for each enemy unit and possibly each friendly unit as well and then having you roll for the outcome for each unit that was actually affected, on top of long pre-game tables generating stuff and summoned units getting to roll on several tables immediately as well. I will try to remember that there should be a lot of available counterplay to the Stratagem and Enhancements in the Detachment. Taking things I know did not work and trying to make them work is not a safe way to design a Codex, but I do think it is interesting and Chaos Daemons should have elements of randomness, allowing Chaos Daemons players to pick their poison by placing randomness in different places within the Detachments is my way of trying to make sure there is something for everyone. Daemonic Onslaught Revised Daemonic Incursion. Instead of 4 Enhancements, there are 4 Enhancement tables, you have to roll at the start of each battle to see which Enhancement you get, depending on the table and the bearer's alignment you may be able to pick a different option. This is meant to increase the randomness of the Chaos Daemons and bring back a hated element from an earlier edition, that was pretty fun and flavourful in some ways, hopefully in a palatable manner.
So I only have a few daemons, and I don't play them very often, but I wasn't a fan of the random wargear/warlord trait/psychic power thing back in the day. Setting aside the fact that despite the name chaos daemons aren't generally depicted as all that "chaotic" in a lot of the lore... Random powers/wargear actively discourages you from doing cool conversions or writing fluff that explains why you have special ability X, etc. Plus, it's hard to incentivize random upgrades. If someone really hates the idea choosing their own gear, they can probably just roll to randomly decide which units/enhancements to take when building their list. I'm not sure this detachment concept really adds much.
It brings back something old and some players like to roll on tables, an option to roll is nothing without a benefit to doing so because I get the feeling I am just making a silly move. I want to be rewarded for rolling randomly occasionally. There being 4 other Detachments without random enhancements means you can avoid this if you really hate it. Hopefully you love one of the ways one of the detachments takes away agency from the Chaos Daemons player. Malevolent Infiltration Detachment Rule: Dark Machinations Units benefit from a system of Fate Dice (Dark Dice), 1 dice per friendly and enemy units, the dice equal the turn number of the turn they were generated (1s turn 1, 5s turn 5). Stratagems: Stratagems for Malevolent Infiltration have random effects depending on a dice roll. The randomness helps to balance out the otherwise predictable nature of the Detachment and offers uses for the lower results on your Dark Dice, either by allowing you to pick a preferable effect on a random table or by recycling or upgrading some number of Dark Dice. Enhancements: Focus on deployment and start of game effects, declaring your master plan and outwitting enemy troop deployments and things of that sort.
Interesting, but probably a bad idea. For context, eldar went from starting the game with 13(?) fate dice to only 6 because having that many to begin with was just too much. Further, fate and miracle dice both have a lot of restrictions on how often you can spend them whereas this kind of implies that such restrictions would either be loose or wouldn't exist (because otherwise you're just not using most of the dice you generate.) Seems like an MSU army would just... never fail any important rolls ever in the second half of the game, and big daemons would be auto-hitting/wounding left and right starting on turn 2. I'm not entirely sure what fluff this detachment is trying to convey either. Carefully cultivated master plans aren't generally a daemon thing outside of Tzeentch. So maybe this is just meant to be a Tzeentch detachment? If you really want to play around with a fate dice mechanic, I'd suggest trying something that sticks a little closer to the current Strands of Fate/Miracle Dice rules. But I'm also not sure this would be my favorite way to design a "Tzeentchy" detachment. Heck, I'm not even that big a fan of fate dice with my eldar because they tend to be kind of feels-bad for your opponent.
I call them Fate Dice to indicate they would have all the same restrictions for the most part. I think having a bunch of 1s and 2s leftover at the end of the game would be acceptable. You could keep track with a sheet of paper. Five rows, first one says 30 for the 1s generated turn 1, then you do a tally of how many 1s you have used, next row is 20 for all your 2s you generated turn 2 and a tally of how many you have used and so on. 30 1s: IIIII IIIII IIIII III 20 2s: IIIII II 10 3s: IIIII IIII 8 4s: IIIII III empty 6 5s: IIIII I empty Endless Corruption Detachment Rule: Corrupted Domain The Detachment focuses on corrupting terrain and spreading debuffs to enemy units. It enhances the effects of Daemonic Manifestation and Daemonic Terror based on the corruption of terrain features, allowing your units to grind down the enemy with a mixture of hurting the enemy and healing friendly units. Stratagems: Stratagems for Endless Corruption are geared towards amplifying the impact of corrupted terrain. Enhancements: Enhancements are Locuses that provide auras affecting units within a specific range. These Locuses can be taken multiple times but are alignment-locked and the effects do not stack.
The idea of corrupting terrain features is a fun high concept. Again, would largely depend on execution. Aura-style enhancements always make me nervous because I'm not eager to return to 8th/9th style aura bubbles that whole armies huddle around. And if the the enhancements are alignment-locked, that kind of suggests that you're going to create one enhancement per god, so actively discouraging people from running monogod. (If you don't have a cheap unit you can slot in to use up points, then you just functionally have fewer enhancement options than multi-god players.) I'm also not sure that the concept of corrupting terrain necessarily calls for alignment locking. Nothing about the trees growing tendrils and ruins growing mouths screams, "alignment-locked enhancements" to me.
I mean like a Locus of Wrath, a Locus of Change and so on. You would be able to take a Locus of Wrath on each Khorne Character, but the effect of +1 S on the charge would not stack if you had 3 Loci of Wrath close together. I doubt a single 20 pt enhancement will make or break a buff ball. Neverborn Crossroad Detachment Rule: Infernal Predators The Detachment emphasizes exploiting enemy vulnerabilities. It provides bonuses when attacking enemy units that are Exposed (surrounded/GSC 9e Crossfire) or Battle-shocked, reflecting the predatory nature of the daemons. Stratagems: Stratagems for Neverborn Crossroad focus on giving the opponent hard choices, introducing an element of randomness for the Chaos Daemons player.
Again, depends on execution. It's hard to comment much without more details. GSC-style crossfire seems unlikely to come up much for daemons given that they don't have a ton of shooting to begin with. "Surrounded" isn't a term that has a clear definition in 10th, so I'd be curious to see how you'd define such a thing. I guess you could just go with outnumbered-in-melee or in-engagement-range-of-multiple-daemon-units or something. Nothing about being surrounded or outnumbered screams, "gives the opponent hard choices," to me, and giving your opponent hard choices doesn't seem like it would innately create randomness for yourself. Are you trying to hint at some sort of temptation die mechanic here? The name of the detachment kind of makes me think that you're going for a vaguely Slaaneshi detachment here?
Warpstorm is unaligned, Daemonic Onslaught is Khorne's overwhelming aggression, Malevolent Infiltration is Tzeentch's master plan, Endless Corruption is Nurgle's attrition warfare, Neverborn Crossroad is Slaanesh's tempting and probing strikes. But Khorne can tempt mortals with the ways to let out their aggression and kill their enemies and Tzeentch can whittle down enemies with a prolonged sorcerous barrage and waves of Pink Horrors. Neverborn Crossroad Infernal Predators: Add +1 to hit rolls against enemy units that are Exposed or Battle-shocked. A target is considered Exposed if a line drawn from any part of the attacking unit’s base or hull to any part of the another friendly unit’s base or hull passes over any part of the target unit without passing over a terrain feature. Works in melee as well as shooting.
|
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2024/08/18 07:27:40
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/18 15:56:17
Subject: 10th Chaos Daemons Detachments
|
 |
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
|
Eldar got 12 Fate Dice at the start of 10th.
And that was significantly too powerful.
Getting twice that many and more on later turns is absolutely ridiculous.
|
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/18 17:58:51
Subject: Re:10th Chaos Daemons Detachments
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
vict0988 wrote:
A flexible army doesn't necessarily have a higher chance of winning than one that is inflexible and does one job really well. As a Khorne player you would have more flexibility with 5 viable Detachments than 2. Making everything generic rather than God specific is a challenge, I will see if I can't incorporate some of your ideas into my Detachments.
Well, the argument would be more that monogod armies tend to have big gaps in their capabilities. Ex: most of them don't have much in the way of shooting. Some of them lack anti-tank. Khorne doesn't necessarily have great objective holders, etc. So there's innately an advantage to playing multi-god over monogod. And given that a lot of people seem to want to play monogod, you can see where it might be appealing to design detachments meant to compensate for the innate drawbacks of playing monogod over multigod.
But it's okay if addressing the disparity between multi- and mono-god armies isn't a design goal for this project.
A big part of this is wanting to rehabilitate some of the frustrating elements of 6th edition Chaos Daemons, which had you roll on a table and half the results on the table had you roll for each enemy unit and possibly each friendly unit as well and then having you roll for the outcome for each unit that was actually affected, on top of long pre-game tables generating stuff and summoned units getting to roll on several tables immediately as well. I will try to remember that there should be a lot of available counterplay to the Stratagem and Enhancements in the Detachment. Taking things I know did not work and trying to make them work is not a safe way to design a Codex, but I do think it is interesting and Chaos Daemons should have elements of randomness, allowing Chaos Daemons players to pick their poison by placing randomness in different places within the Detachments is my way of trying to make sure there is something for everyone.
Not meant to be an attack: is the lolrandom stuff from 6th edition worth rehabilitating? Did people like not being able customize their army lore/models because of random wargear or enjoy spontaneously losing models because of the warp storm table?
If the Warpstorm detachment is meant to harken back to the 6th edition warp storm mechanics, then I don't see much of a connection with what you've described so far. Army-wide battleshock tests with strats to make those tests fail more often or punish the opponent for failing them sounds more like a tyranid vanguard army than like the random damage/random buff and debuff mechanic of the old warpstorm. So maybe I'm just having trouble picturing what you want this detachment to be/represent. What story is this detachment meant to tell?
I call them Fate Dice to indicate they would have all the same restrictions for the most part. I think having a bunch of 1s and 2s leftover at the end of the game would be acceptable. You could keep track with a sheet of paper. Five rows, first one says 30 for the 1s generated turn 1, then you do a tally of how many 1s you have used, next row is 20 for all your 2s you generated turn 2 and a tally of how many you have used and so on.
30 1s: IIIII IIIII IIIII III
20 2s: IIIII II
10 3s: IIIII IIII
8 4s: IIIII III empty
6 5s: IIIII I empty
Respectfully, I don't think that's a good way to do a fate dice mechanic. If you're putting Strands of Fate style restrictions in place, then you're talking about *at most* using 5 fate dice per turn. And that's if you have something to spend them on in every single phase. So it sounds like you're looking at generating way more dice than would actually get used. Although if the number of dice is based on number of units, you're also giving yourself an extremely hard number to predict and balance around. Consider a monster mash daemon list facing knights as opposed to two MSU lists going at it.
And if you're correct about the number of dice you can expect to accumulate, then you're basically looking at the daemon player auto-passing a lot of saves and to-wound rolls in the second half of the game.
For discussion's sake, how would it feel if you just replaced this mechanic with a copy+paste of the eldar strands of fate? It would still be extremely strong (because again, Strands of Fate is a powerful, feels bad mechanic), but it would involve way less bookkeeping, and you'd have a much better idea of how it would scale and behave. Other than being different for the sake of being different, in what ways would that mechanic fail to fit what you're going for? What would you want to change about it and why?
I mean like a Locus of Wrath, a Locus of Change and so on. You would be able to take a Locus of Wrath on each Khorne Character, but the effect of +1 S on the charge would not stack if you had 3 Loci of Wrath close together. I doubt a single 20 pt enhancement will make or break a buff ball.
I'm not worried about stacking buffs so much as the way that auras scale based on how much you squeeze in around them and how that behavior kind of discourages maneuvering in favor of raw power boost blobs. I dislike Shadowsun's current rule for similar reasons. But auras aren't unprecedented in 10th, so you do you.
Neverborn Crossroad
Infernal Predators: Add +1 to hit rolls against enemy units that are Exposed or Battle-shocked. A target is considered Exposed if a line drawn from any part of the attacking unit’s base or hull to any part of the another friendly unit’s base or hull passes over any part of the target unit without passing over a terrain feature.
Works in melee as well as shooting.
So as written, my daemonettes can get buffed in melee by my bloodletters that are on the opposite side of the table provided there's no terrain between them? There's some fluff-crunch dissonance there. I think this probably needs another pass. And I'm still not sure where the "hard choices" thing comes in.
Assuming you rewrite this mechanic to basically encourage "flanking" in some way, it would feel more like it's telling the story of daemons surrounding or outnumbering their foes. Almost more of a swarming or maneuvering vibe. But I'm not sure if that's what you're going for.
I get that you're looking for high concept feedback, but I think we might need some more specific goals and specific mechanics to really provide meaningful feedback. With what you've presented so far, I feel like there are a lot of mechanics that don't necessarily reflect the fluff or "vibes" you say they're mean to reflect.
|
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/21 15:46:54
Subject: 10th Chaos Daemons Detachments
|
 |
Loyal Necron Lychguard
|
JNAProductions wrote:Eldar got 12 Fate Dice at the start of 10th.
And that was significantly too powerful.
Getting twice that many and more on later turns is absolutely ridiculous.
What makes the Eldar fate dice powerful is using them to pass saves against high damage weapons or trigger devastating wounds on high damage weapons of their own turn 1-2 to get a strong advantage right? With Dark Dice you are not getting anything but 1s and 2s for the first 2 turns of the game, barring any Stratagem investment which may or may not be available.
Wyldhunt wrote: vict0988 wrote:
A flexible army doesn't necessarily have a higher chance of winning than one that is inflexible and does one job really well. As a Khorne player you would have more flexibility with 5 viable Detachments than 2. Making everything generic rather than God specific is a challenge, I will see if I can't incorporate some of your ideas into my Detachments.
Well, the argument would be more that monogod armies tend to have big gaps in their capabilities. Ex: most of them don't have much in the way of shooting. Some of them lack anti-tank. Khorne doesn't necessarily have great objective holders, etc. So there's innately an advantage to playing multi-god over monogod. And given that a lot of people seem to want to play monogod, you can see where it might be appealing to design detachments meant to compensate for the innate drawbacks of playing monogod over multigod.
But it's okay if addressing the disparity between multi- and mono-god armies isn't a design goal for this project.
Your argument is sound, I can see there is a cost to 100% purity there isn't with 70% purity. My question is what is that cost? Does it need to be fixed or is it okay if I just provide a snack for mono-god armies or does it need to be a full meal that fully addresses them being unviable? Too bad about the lack of flavour provided by mono-god detachments.
A big part of this is wanting to rehabilitate some of the frustrating elements of 6th edition Chaos Daemons, which had you roll on a table and half the results on the table had you roll for each enemy unit and possibly each friendly unit as well and then having you roll for the outcome for each unit that was actually affected, on top of long pre-game tables generating stuff and summoned units getting to roll on several tables immediately as well. I will try to remember that there should be a lot of available counterplay to the Stratagem and Enhancements in the Detachment. Taking things I know did not work and trying to make them work is not a safe way to design a Codex, but I do think it is interesting and Chaos Daemons should have elements of randomness, allowing Chaos Daemons players to pick their poison by placing randomness in different places within the Detachments is my way of trying to make sure there is something for everyone.
Not meant to be an attack: is the lolrandom stuff from 6th edition worth rehabilitating? Did people like not being able customize their army lore/models because of random wargear or enjoy spontaneously losing models because of the warp storm table?
If the Warpstorm detachment is meant to harken back to the 6th edition warp storm mechanics, then I don't see much of a connection with what you've described so far. Army-wide battleshock tests with strats to make those tests fail more often or punish the opponent for failing them sounds more like a tyranid vanguard army than like the random damage/random buff and debuff mechanic of the old warpstorm. So maybe I'm just having trouble picturing what you want this detachment to be/represent. What story is this detachment meant to tell?
Not taking it as an attack, potentially not worth keeping, but I do want random elements, that's an important part of Chaos Daemons flavour. I decided the theme of the Warp Storm Detachment's Stratagems are mostly about causing damage to your own units and the Enhancements either have positive effects for your opponent or negative effects for your own units. So every enemy unit being in danger every turn is presented (although it's just battle-shock) and you can damage or weaken your units. I decided against having the Enhancements focus on battleshock.
I call them Fate Dice to indicate they would have all the same restrictions for the most part. I think having a bunch of 1s and 2s leftover at the end of the game would be acceptable. You could keep track with a sheet of paper. Five rows, first one says 30 for the 1s generated turn 1, then you do a tally of how many 1s you have used, next row is 20 for all your 2s you generated turn 2 and a tally of how many you have used and so on.
30 1s: IIIII IIIII IIIII III
20 2s: IIIII II
10 3s: IIIII IIII
8 4s: IIIII III empty
6 5s: IIIII I empty
Respectfully, I don't think that's a good way to do a fate dice mechanic. If you're putting Strands of Fate style restrictions in place, then you're talking about *at most* using 5 fate dice per turn. And that's if you have something to spend them on in every single phase. So it sounds like you're looking at generating way more dice than would actually get used. Although if the number of dice is based on number of units, you're also giving yourself an extremely hard number to predict and balance around. Consider a monster mash daemon list facing knights as opposed to two MSU lists going at it.
And if you're correct about the number of dice you can expect to accumulate, then you're basically looking at the daemon player auto-passing a lot of saves and to-wound rolls in the second half of the game.
For discussion's sake, how would it feel if you just replaced this mechanic with a copy+paste of the eldar strands of fate? It would still be extremely strong (because again, Strands of Fate is a powerful, feels bad mechanic), but it would involve way less bookkeeping, and you'd have a much better idea of how it would scale and behave. Other than being different for the sake of being different, in what ways would that mechanic fail to fit what you're going for? What would you want to change about it and why?
I decided to copy Sororitas, so you can do it once per unit. Generating based on number of enemy units is a way to indicate the enemy has been or is being infiltrated. It getting more powerful as the game goes on is pretty key to the feeling of a plan coming together I think. I don't think you'd know how powerful Fate Dice or generating dice like Sororitas when your units would die is either.
I mean like a Locus of Wrath, a Locus of Change and so on. You would be able to take a Locus of Wrath on each Khorne Character, but the effect of +1 S on the charge would not stack if you had 3 Loci of Wrath close together. I doubt a single 20 pt enhancement will make or break a buff ball.
I'm not worried about stacking buffs so much as the way that auras scale based on how much you squeeze in around them and how that behavior kind of discourages maneuvering in favor of raw power boost blobs. I dislike Shadowsun's current rule for similar reasons. But auras aren't unprecedented in 10th, so you do you.
I'll try to make them all negative auras so you want to crash into enemy blobs instead of creating a blob of your own. But I was toying with the idea of giving them a beneficial aura in mono-god lists. Maybe it could just improve the bearer if the bearer is in a mono-god list instead of providing a beneficial aura, then remove the ability to spam them.
Neverborn Crossroad
Infernal Predators: Add +1 to hit rolls against enemy units that are Exposed or Battle-shocked. A target is considered Exposed if a line drawn from any part of the attacking unit’s base or hull to any part of the another friendly unit’s base or hull passes over any part of the target unit without passing over a terrain feature.
Works in melee as well as shooting.
So as written, my daemonettes can get buffed in melee by my bloodletters that are on the opposite side of the table provided there's no terrain between them? There's some fluff-crunch dissonance there. I think this probably needs another pass. And I'm still not sure where the "hard choices" thing comes in.
Assuming you rewrite this mechanic to basically encourage "flanking" in some way, it would feel more like it's telling the story of daemons surrounding or outnumbering their foes. Almost more of a swarming or maneuvering vibe. But I'm not sure if that's what you're going for.
I get that you're looking for high concept feedback, but I think we might need some more specific goals and specific mechanics to really provide meaningful feedback. With what you've presented so far, I feel like there are a lot of mechanics that don't necessarily reflect the fluff or "vibes" you say they're mean to reflect.
Definitely going for a maneuvering vibe, I do think your opponent has been outflanked if your Daemons charge them from the back while the opponent is facing your other units, I introduced an additional requirement of not going through another enemy unit to increase counterplay against this and to make lonely enemy units more exposed to being surrounded and destroyed, perhaps if they are sent alone to hold an objective for the greater good they get easily surrounded and killed by infernal predators. If I have to scrap the Warp Storm's ability because it's a terrible idea then I'd rather do it before I polish the Stratagems and Enhancements.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/08/21 16:01:17
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/21 18:44:47
Subject: 10th Chaos Daemons Detachments
|
 |
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
|
So, your dice results are always equal to the turn number?
That doesn't feel very good. It's entirely useless T1 (maybe save something from blowing up with Deadly Demise? but I can't think of anything you want a 1 for), practically useless T2 (you can auto-hit or wound when you're already succeeding on a 2... Not that useful), okay T3, and only really useful T4 and T5, when you can start passing saves on anything with a 4++.
That seems pretty naff.
|
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/21 21:59:47
Subject: 10th Chaos Daemons Detachments
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
vict0988 wrote:
Your argument is sound, I can see there is a cost to 100% purity there isn't with 70% purity. My question is what is that cost? Does it need to be fixed or is it okay if I just provide a snack for mono-god armies or does it need to be a full meal that fully addresses them being unviable? Too bad about the lack of flavour provided by mono-god detachments.
To my mind, it's a problem to be fixed. But even if it's not, it feels like a missed opportunity to not lean into monogod flavor/gimmicks. I'm not really a daemons player, but I feel like I'd probably shelve the army for the edition if I had to go buy a bunch of Tzeentch or Nurgle stuff in order to viably play my mostly slaaneshi collection. But again, your efforts here don't *have to* be dedicated to monogod detachments. Multi-god detachments are fine.
Not taking it as an attack, potentially not worth keeping, but I do want random elements, that's an important part of Chaos Daemons flavour. I decided the theme of the Warp Storm Detachment's Stratagems are mostly about causing damage to your own units and the Enhancements either have positive effects for your opponent or negative effects for your own units. So every enemy unit being in danger every turn is presented (although it's just battle-shock) and you can damage or weaken your units. I decided against having the Enhancements focus on battleshock.
Obviously it all depends on the specifics of the execution, but a detachment that focuses on killing and debuffing your own units seems like a tough sell. You'd have to have some pretty huge benefits to make me want to use those rules, and rules that strong might themselves be tricky to balance.
I decided to copy Sororitas, so you can do it once per unit. Generating based on number of enemy units is a way to indicate the enemy has been or is being infiltrated. It getting more powerful as the game goes on is pretty key to the feeling of a plan coming together I think. I don't think you'd know how powerful Fate Dice or generating dice like Sororitas when your units would die is either.
Maybe my eyes are jumping over it, but where's the part limiting it to once per unit?
As JNA spelled out, it's hard to picture this working well. As-written, you end up with a ton of 1s to keep track of that seem to have no real use. Then you get a pile of 2s that are presumably just to let your characters auto-hit or auto-wound once per phase for the rest of the game. Then you get some 3s that are probably just there to auto-hit or auto-wound with a bunch of non-characters for the rest of the game, but that's basically just turning a 2/3rds chance die into a guaranteed roll (so only matters 1/3rd of the time.) So that's sort of like a generic kill-more-better rule, but with a bunch of extra steps and bookkeeping. Then when the game is mostly over, you get to start auto-passing some invulns with your 4s or else just get a second wave of auto-hits/wounds. Then on turn 5, when it's unlikely to make a difference, you can autopass a few invuln saves or auto-wound some tougher targets with your lower strength attacks.
All of which, assuming it is one die per unit per phase, is pretty underwhelming. But I was assuming you'd have some stratagems or enhancements to turn those huge numbers of 1s and 2s into more powerful dice or pull off other effects. At which point, you're talking about guaranteeing a an invul save or max damage every turn. Which might be hard to balance for the same reasons it's hard to balance with eldar. Even if you do have strats/enhancements that make this whole approach work and *only* makes it as powerful as strands of fate or miracle dice, it still seems like waaaaay too elaborate a mechanic for the end result. Some quick and easy alternatives that result in less bookkeepign and are more likely to make the fate dice usable in early turns:
* Just generate a handful of dice pregame ala eldar.
* Just generate die at the start of the turn or when a unit dies ala sisters.
* Generate Xd6 at the start of each battle round where X equals the turn number.
* Generate X dice at the start of each battle round where X is a value that scales based on game size.
* Generate X dice at the start of your command phase for each objective you control.
* Generate a die when you score a secondary objective.
Ultimatley, you do you, and I'll wish you well in your endeavors. But this idea feels like a stinker, and I encourage you to drop it or rework it from the ground up with usability/player experience in mind.
I'll try to make them all negative auras so you want to crash into enemy blobs instead of creating a blob of your own.
That seems like a good approach.
But I was toying with the idea of giving them a beneficial aura in mono-god lists. Maybe it could just improve the bearer if the bearer is in a mono-god list instead of providing a beneficial aura, then remove the ability to spam them.
My question is: why is the terrain corruption detachment (slash Nurgle detachment?) also trying to be the detachment that emphasizes monogod lists? It makes your goals for this detachment feel a little confused. The terrain corruption thing is a cool idea that seems like it would work well in both multi-god and mono-god lists. I'd stick to that.
Definitely going for a maneuvering vibe, I do think your opponent has been outflanked if your Daemons charge them from the back while the opponent is facing your other units,
The issue here is that "outflanked", "back", and "facing" are all concepts that don't really exist in 10th's core rules. As-written, my blood letters fighting a totally different unit on the other side of the table can buff my daemonettes so long as there aren't any models in the way. I'm sure text could be written to convey the concept of flanking, but you'd need another pass at it.
... to make lonely enemy units more exposed to being surrounded and destroyed, perhaps if they are sent alone to hold an objective for the greater good they get easily surrounded and killed by infernal predators.
Okay. So this quote makes me think you're going less for "outflanking" and more for targeting isolated enemies. Which is different and probably easier to write rules for. If what you really want is to reward the daemon player for attacking isolated enemy elements, then you can write something as simple as,
When a unit with this rule makes an attack, if the target of that attack is not within 6" of any other enemy units, add +1 to the attack's to-hit roll and Strength characteristic.
Or whatever buffs you feel are appropriate. It's much simpler to explain. It comes with counterplay in the form of grouping units up (and in the form of you trying to isolate units by killing their buddies). It gives a vibe of predatorily hunting down isolated targets and/or of the enemy huddlign together in fear against the spooky daemon attack. Which doesn't necessarily lean into the "maneuvering" theme or the "hard decisions" theme, but it's definitely a vibe.
|
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
|
|
 |
 |
|
|