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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/30 19:21:44
Subject: 10th Aeldari Detachments
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Design Goals: Create 5 Eldar Detachments that are each geared toward a thematic warfare strategy Eldar employ and give different playstyles and experiences while allowing the use of an almost infinite number of lists within each detachment. The themes are destiny, playing enemies against each other and strategic precision, strategic adaptability and guerilla warfare, rebirth and retribution, lightning assaults that leave the enemy devastated. 1. Morai-Heg's Blood Detachment Rule: Seer Stones (After both sides have deployed, but before you have determined who will have the first turn, you must assign a different one of the Seer Stones below to each of the first five battle rounds. At the start of each battle round, the Seer Stone that you assigned to that battle round and either the Seer Stone of the previous battle round or the following battle round becomes active for your army until the end of that battle round, turn 1 and turn 5 you can choose the excess Seer Stone instead. Air Equipped with advanced star engines and guided by matchless agility, Aeldari vehicles and warriors move with an elegance that defies the limitations of lesser races. Their speed is not merely a function of technology, but a finely honed mastery of battlefield awareness, allowing them to reposition at will with unmatched precision. When Advancing, Aeldari units from your army can double their Movement characteristic instead of rolling a D6, units that do so cannot Shoot or Charge until the end of the turn. Infinity Utilizing sophisticated holographic fields and psychically attuned camouflage, the Aeldari enhance their ability to blend into their surroundings. Their warriors are briefed on the exact moments they need to remain motionless, becoming invisible to the enemy's targeting systems. Each time an attack is made against an Aeldari unit from your army, if that unit did not make a Normal Move, Advance, or Fall Back this battle round, it receives the benefit of Cover. Soulstone Before battle, Aeldari spirit seers channel the energy of soulstones into temporary protective wards, designed to shield their warriors from psychic onslaughts. These hastily woven barriers, however, cannot last indefinitely, their power fading as the intensity of battle rises and falls. Improve the Leadership characteristic of Aeldari units from your army by 2. Aeldari units from your army have a 6+ Feel No Pain against Mortal Wounds (roll a d6 each time a model suffers a mortal wound; on a 6, the wound is ignored). Salvation In the midst of battle, Aeldari forces execute their retreats with precision, relying on advanced tactical protocols and foresight. Their warriors can withdraw fluidly from combat and still unleash a torrent of firepower, maintaining pressure even as they reposition for advantage. Aeldari units from your army are eligible to shoot in a turn in which they Fell Back, but if they do, then until the end of the turn, each time a model in the unit makes a ranged attack, subtract 1 from that attack’s hit roll. Outcast The Aeldari utilize crystal targeting matrixes and other advanced sensor systems that grant unparalleled accuracy, ensuring their shots strike true even in the densest terrain. With this flawless precision, their warriors eliminate any advantage the enemy might find in cover. Each time a model in an Aeldari unit from your army makes a ranged attack that targets a unit within half range, the target does not receive the benefits of Cover to its saving throw against that attack. Freedom Before battle, Ghostwalk Matrixes are attuned to the battlefield, their spirit stones containing the ancient wisdom of past warriors. These devices guide Aeldari forces along unseen paths, allowing them to move effortlessly through obstacles, as if the terrain itself bends to their will. Aeldari FLY units from your army can move across terrain as if they were not there. Stratagems: Fate’s Veil The Weave Unravels Shrouded in Mystery Whisper of Doom Threads of Fate Piercing Insight Enhancements: Keeper of Destiny (AELDARI PSYKER only. Conceals the order of your Seer Stones and once per game you can re-order them but if you do the bearer is destroyed.) Thrumming Psytronome (AELDARI model only. Once during the battle, at the start of a Fight phase, you can declare that this model will activate the Thrumming Psytronome. If you do so, for the rest of that Fight phase the Attacks characteristics of all WRAITH CONSTRUCT units from your army that are within 6" of this model are doubled. However, at the end of the Fight phase, each WRAITH CONSTRUCT unit from your army that was affected by the Psytronome suffers D3 mortal wounds.) The Storied Sword (AELDARI model armed with a weapon with "sword" or "blade" in the name only. Increase the bearer's Wounds characteristic by 1. Roll a D6 each time the bearer fights, on a roll of 1 the bearer suffers 1 mortal wound. Add 1 to the bearer's Attacks characteristic for each wound suffered earlier in the battle.) The Weeping Stones (AELDARI PSYKER only. In your Command phase, you can select one dice in your Fate dice pool, re-roll it, then add it back to your Fate dice pool displaying the result you just rolled. When the bearer is destroyed you gain 1 Fate Dice.) 2. Hunters of Kurnous Detachment Rule: Divide and Conquer (You can include units in your army, even though they do not have the AELDARI Faction keyword but if you do they must share the same Faction keyword. The combined points value of non-AELDARI units you can include in your army depends on the battle size, as follows: Incursion: Up to 250 pts Strike Force: Up to 500 pts Onslaught: Up to 750 pts Non-AELDARI models included in your army in this way cannot be your WARLORD. AELDARI units from your army that are more than 12" away from non-AELDARI units from your army can re-roll Hit rolls and Wound rolls against Battle-shocked units and units that are not within 6" of any other enemy units.) Stratagems: Moonlit Quarry Ambush of Blades Pack Hunters Killing Blow Executioner Eyes of the Predator Enhancements: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter Faolchú’s Wing The Scintillant Veil Shadowsting 3. Cegorach's Jest Detachment Rule: Ephemeral (AELDARI units from your army are eligible to charge even if they Fell Back this turn.) Stratagems: Webway Assault Great Fool Dance of Shadows Veil of Laughter Mask of Secrets Phantom Jest Enhancements: Player of the Light (re-roll charge rolls and Battle-shock tests for friendly units within 6" of the bearer for the first 3 battle rounds) Player of the Twillight (4+ FNP for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th battle rounds) Player of the Dark (increases the Damage characteristic of the bearer's melee weapons to a minimum of 3 after the first 2 battle rounds) Skystrider (the bearer's unit can charge after disembarking from a vehicle that moved before the unit disembarked, and the bearer's unit never suffers damage from their transport being destroyed while embarked) 4. Vengeance of Ynnead Detachment Rule: Strength from Death (wounded units are improved) Stratagems: Soul Burst Ancient Enmity Echo of Life Death’s Resurgence Rise Again Revenge of the Dead Enhancements: Warp-Spawn Bane Avenging Strikes Soulsnare The Phoenix Gem 5. Khaine's Sword Detachment Rule: Headstrong (AELDARI units from your army have Scouts 7".) Stratagems: Blades of Khaine Avatar’s Wrath Blood Sacrifice Deathly Charge The Bloody Handed Relentless Assault Enhancements: Nova Lance Howling Skysword Tank Killer Heart Strike
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2024/10/28 05:04:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/30 19:25:45
Subject: Re:10th Aeldari Detachments
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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In Morag-Hai's Blood, Air feels significantly more powerful than any other ability given.
With most Eldar having 7" or more of movement, and Assault weapons often... It feels overly good.
And the Enhancement to conceal the order feels like a waste of time.
Hunters Of Kurnous should not allow blanket army mixing.
Cegorach's Jest feels fine, probably.
Vengeance of Ynnead could be brutally OP or a waste of time. Not enough details.
Khaine's Sword is probably fine.
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/30 22:04:05
Subject: 10th Aeldari Detachments
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Fixture of Dakka
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Thanks for sharing! Some scattered thoughts:
* No need to list strat/enhancement names if you're not going to tell us what they do.
* As JNA mentioned, Air seems dramatically more powerful than the other seer stones. It's much less situational than the others.
Infinity requires a unit hold still to benefit from it, and eldar have very few units that want to hold still, and the ones that do can generally just be deployed on terrain to get cover without this. The main use case that comes to mind for this is war walkers as you're generally not hiding or moving them the way you are other vehicles, but those have a 4+ invuln and thus only really benefit from this against AP0 attacks. If this just gave the benefits of cover to all units regardless of whether they moved (maybe only against attacks outside of X"?), that would be much more broadly useful and would put this stone closer to Air.
Soul Stone only kicks in when you're being hit by mortal wounds, so it's extremely matchup dependent and dependent on what units your opponent targets with mortal/devastating wounds. This could be FNP 6+ against *all* incoming damage (not just mortal wounds) and it would be much better, though probably still not nearly as useful as Air. Think of it this way: a falcon has 12 wounds. FNP6+ means that your opponent has to do an average of 14-15 damage to it instead of 12 to kill it. Which isn't nothing, but it's not much either. For most of our non-monster/tank/wraith units, it's even less useful do to the lower wound count in the squad.
* Salvation is pretty good. No notes.
* The thing about outcast is that, if you're within half range with most of our guns, you're probably close enough to deny them cover via positioning unless they're actively in ruins. As a tool for clearing infantry out of ruins, it's okay, although it does suffer from vypers existing and being able to grant conditionless ignores cover to your whole army.
* Freedom is a weird one. Infantry mostly won't care because we don't usually need to surge a melee unit past screens and infantry already move through most terrain without issue as-is. So this is mostly beneficial to vehicles trying to reposition from behind ruins (basically brings back 9th edition Fly rules) and for monsters like the avatar who need to bust through some walls they were hiding behind.Those are pretty good use cases, but then it becomes weird that your unit scan only do that for half the game.
* I do like the idea of trying to LARP being a seer and planning out your buffs in advance, and I do think an enhancement to conceal the order you've put your stones in is an okay enhancement.
* Hunters of Kurnous. The allies thing is very vaguely worded, but generally blanket allies is a bad idea. Just a big can of worms that doesn't particularly lend itself to the theme you otherwise seem to be going for here.
* Lethality boosts vs isolated or shocked units is pretty cool. Feels a bit more like a drukhari thing, but it works here.
* Cegorach's Jest detachment rule seems fine. That said, harlies in general probably need a modest rework. This detachment doesn't address the weird anti-synergies with the TM/SS, the way that only one DJ per turn can use their special rule, or the problems that come with fielding more than a couple units of troupes at larger points. So this is a good rule, but it doesn't encourage me to field mass harlies the way the kroot detachment encourages me to field mass kroot. Maybe the strats will change that.
* Player of the Light is mostly fine. Weirdly, it's probably most useful on a shadowseer whereas Light always struck me as a troupe that wanted to lean into Troupe Masters playing hero.
* Player of the Twilight feels like it's going to be frustrating for one or both players. The harlequin player only benefits from it once all the other models in the character's squad are dead, and your opponent is going to be frustrated trying to get through what is basically a super shadowfield. So it's very easy for this enhancement to either do nothing or do too much.
* Player of the dark: What does "minimum" of 3 mean? Iirc the shadowseer's stave is Dd3, and both of the troupe master's melee options are D1. So this is just setting their Damage to 3, right? Feels like you'd almost always take this on a troupe master as his low Damage stat is one of his biggest weaknesses. This would basically let you guarantee at least 3 devastating wounds every time he fights on top of making all his unsaved attacks three times as lethal. Or in other words, you go from doing a max of 5 wounds with a TM to doing up to 15, and the first 3 can basically be guaranteed each turn. Feels like too much.
* I think I like Skystrider.
* Vengeance of Ynnead. I assume you're going to copy the sisters' detachment here? +1 to-hit if below starting strength. +1 to-wound as well if belong half strength? If so, that seems fair and fluffy.
* Khaine's Sword. So army-wide Scout? Probably mostly fine. I assume that scout move would be like, 6" or something and not a full double-move? Otherwise things get silly fast. Scorpions might be a bit much with this as it would let them infiltrate near the enemy and move quite far before going for a charge. Similarly, banshees would have a potentially scary threat range with this.
* My other concern with this one is that this might be a little too specialized? I'm not sure eldar really lend themselves to a jail list. Most of our melee units don't really want to dive into the enemy lines; they want to pick up isolated targets (so that they survive the following turn) or act as speed bumps while our shooting elements do most of the work. So I feel like this ends up being mainly useful for units like the Avatar or wraith units that are tough enough to slog straight forward and absorb some shooting. But maybe that's a perfectly fine use case.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/31 03:51:02
Subject: Re:10th Aeldari Detachments
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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JNAProductions wrote:In Morag-Hai's Blood, Air feels significantly more powerful than any other ability given.
With most Eldar having 7" or more of movement, and Assault weapons often... It feels overly good.
And the Enhancement to conceal the order feels like a waste of time.
Hunters Of Kurnous should not allow blanket army mixing.
I don't mind Air being more powerful, do you? Is it a thing where you think it's something people will want 5 turns every game?
Why no blanket army mixing? I think goading enemies to attack each other is very thematic.
Wyldhunt wrote:Thanks for sharing! Some scattered thoughts:
* No need to list strat/enhancement names if you're not going to tell us what they do.
* As JNA mentioned, Air seems dramatically more powerful than the other seer stones. It's much less situational than the others.
Infinity requires a unit hold still to benefit from it, and eldar have very few units that want to hold still, and the ones that do can generally just be deployed on terrain to get cover without this. The main use case that comes to mind for this is war walkers as you're generally not hiding or moving them the way you are other vehicles, but those have a 4+ invuln and thus only really benefit from this against AP0 attacks. If this just gave the benefits of cover to all units regardless of whether they moved (maybe only against attacks outside of X"?), that would be much more broadly useful and would put this stone closer to Air.
Soul Stone only kicks in when you're being hit by mortal wounds, so it's extremely matchup dependent and dependent on what units your opponent targets with mortal/devastating wounds. This could be FNP 6+ against *all* incoming damage (not just mortal wounds) and it would be much better, though probably still not nearly as useful as Air. Think of it this way: a falcon has 12 wounds. FNP6+ means that your opponent has to do an average of 14-15 damage to it instead of 12 to kill it. Which isn't nothing, but it's not much either. For most of our non-monster/tank/wraith units, it's even less useful do to the lower wound count in the squad.
* Salvation is pretty good. No notes.
* The thing about outcast is that, if you're within half range with most of our guns, you're probably close enough to deny them cover via positioning unless they're actively in ruins. As a tool for clearing infantry out of ruins, it's okay, although it does suffer from vypers existing and being able to grant conditionless ignores cover to your whole army.
* Freedom is a weird one. Infantry mostly won't care because we don't usually need to surge a melee unit past screens and infantry already move through most terrain without issue as-is. So this is mostly beneficial to vehicles trying to reposition from behind ruins (basically brings back 9th edition Fly rules) and for monsters like the avatar who need to bust through some walls they were hiding behind.Those are pretty good use cases, but then it becomes weird that your unit scan only do that for half the game.
* I do like the idea of trying to LARP being a seer and planning out your buffs in advance, and I do think an enhancement to conceal the order you've put your stones in is an okay enhancement.
* Hunters of Kurnous. The allies thing is very vaguely worded, but generally blanket allies is a bad idea. Just a big can of worms that doesn't particularly lend itself to the theme you otherwise seem to be going for here.
* Lethality boosts vs isolated or shocked units is pretty cool. Feels a bit more like a drukhari thing, but it works here.
* Cegorach's Jest detachment rule seems fine. That said, harlies in general probably need a modest rework. This detachment doesn't address the weird anti-synergies with the TM/ SS, the way that only one DJ per turn can use their special rule, or the problems that come with fielding more than a couple units of troupes at larger points. So this is a good rule, but it doesn't encourage me to field mass harlies the way the kroot detachment encourages me to field mass kroot. Maybe the strats will change that.
* Player of the Light is mostly fine. Weirdly, it's probably most useful on a shadowseer whereas Light always struck me as a troupe that wanted to lean into Troupe Masters playing hero.
* Player of the Twilight feels like it's going to be frustrating for one or both players. The harlequin player only benefits from it once all the other models in the character's squad are dead, and your opponent is going to be frustrated trying to get through what is basically a super shadowfield. So it's very easy for this enhancement to either do nothing or do too much.
* Player of the dark: What does "minimum" of 3 mean? Iirc the shadowseer's stave is Dd3, and both of the troupe master's melee options are D1. So this is just setting their Damage to 3, right? Feels like you'd almost always take this on a troupe master as his low Damage stat is one of his biggest weaknesses. This would basically let you guarantee at least 3 devastating wounds every time he fights on top of making all his unsaved attacks three times as lethal. Or in other words, you go from doing a max of 5 wounds with a TM to doing up to 15, and the first 3 can basically be guaranteed each turn. Feels like too much.
* I think I like Skystrider.
* Vengeance of Ynnead. I assume you're going to copy the sisters' detachment here? +1 to-hit if below starting strength. +1 to-wound as well if belong half strength? If so, that seems fair and fluffy.
* Khaine's Sword. So army-wide Scout? Probably mostly fine. I assume that scout move would be like, 6" or something and not a full double-move? Otherwise things get silly fast. Scorpions might be a bit much with this as it would let them infiltrate near the enemy and move quite far before going for a charge. Similarly, banshees would have a potentially scary threat range with this.
* My other concern with this one is that this might be a little too specialized? I'm not sure eldar really lend themselves to a jail list. Most of our melee units don't really want to dive into the enemy lines; they want to pick up isolated targets (so that they survive the following turn) or act as speed bumps while our shooting elements do most of the work. So I feel like this ends up being mainly useful for units like the Avatar or wraith units that are tough enough to slog straight forward and absorb some shooting. But maybe that's a perfectly fine use case.
Stratagems (and to a lesser degree enhancements) are listed to make you suggest to add something if you think one detachment has gotta have this or that strat.
Rolling 6+ FNP for everything would be a chore. I thought 5+ against MW would be too much.
I am a bit worried about granting abilities for half the game, on the other hand I like the idea of planning for the future and messing with fate thematically, having less fantastical ideas than freedom might be a good idea, but I thought Freedom would be a fun gameplay element.
Hunters of Kurnous started off just being about precision, Avengers of Asuryan being ambushers, Hand of Khaine being kill with borrowed knife (playing enemies against each other). Implementations for ambushes did not come forth in droves, the main thing I thought about was enemies being on their own making ideal targets. Then Hand of Khaine needed something other than just alliance rules, but I wanted something to make the allies something the Eldar would stay away from so it gave Eldar a defensive bonus while away from enemies and the allies of convenience. Targeting vulnerable enemies seemed like a precision thing and a healthier and more fun concept than something like Space Marines picking a preferred enemy unit each battle round and Hand of Khaine got involved with the whole enemies being near that I thought the concepts meshed so well that they fit together into a single Detachment.
Cegorach's Jest is not a Harlequin detachment and there will be no Harlequin detachment, because Harlequin armies should be able to choose from multiple detachments depending on whether they want to play more aggressively or have fate themes. People were playing mono-Harlequins in 8th, it can be done in 10th if GW writes the right rules for them. I don't like how psychic powers are handled in 10th, limiting Shadowseers to one cast between them at least makes it not just a regular ability with *^([PSYCHIC])^* slapped on. At least I don't get the feeling that Shadowseers were regularly spammed earlier on so few are left with 2/3 of their Shadowseer models being useless. The Detachment actually started off being Vaul's Gambit, based on Vaul giving Khaine a faulty sword to save Isha. I know things still need more workshopping but I did spend several hours thinking through things and researching on my own.
Light is Captain America, twilight is Iron Man, dark is Ghost Rider. Captain America can't solo a lot of people. Do you think Twillight needs to turn off after the first failed save? Minimum of 3 means if your damage is 4, it is not lowered to 3, with Stratagems yet to be written I thought it better to be safe, please excuse the confusion. It being ideal for Troupe Masters is fantastic since I meant for it to replace Twillight Fang, a Troupe Master only Relic. Keep in mind it only kicks in turn 3 and if his unit dies he loses his unit he loses Devastating wounds because of the wonderful way 10th is written, Eldar have other ways to spend their 6s, but if this gives mono-Harlequins a great way to do the same then that should be fine, those things in mind I am not so sure it will be a problem.
Yeah, Sisters copying for Ynnead, you think that fits thematically? I'm a bit concerned about wounded vehicles getting a buff? Soul Burst would generate new Fate dice to double down on the Sisters thing.
Yep 6" Scout for Khaine. You don't think the extra range is useful for short-ranged weapons like meltas and shurikens if you go first? Any ideas for Stratagems that could help level things out for long-ranged units that might not need the pre-game move in a way you'd like? One thing to consider is that you'd be able to move things out of line of sight as well, so it offers flexibility, you don't have to go full aggression, even if that is what the detachment is mainly meant to do, but I figure the flexibility works really well thematically as well, both for Eldar in general and because I have come to think of it as a Biel-Tan Bladewind Detachment as well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/31 05:05:16
Subject: Re:10th Aeldari Detachments
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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vict0988 wrote:Why no blanket army mixing? I think goading enemies to attack each other is very thematic.
Should an Eldar Army have Custodian Guard backing up a front line of Hormagaunts and calling in airstrikes from the Guard?
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/08/31 10:11:40
Subject: Re:10th Aeldari Detachments
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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JNAProductions wrote: vict0988 wrote:Why no blanket army mixing? I think goading enemies to attack each other is very thematic.
Should an Eldar Army have Custodian Guard backing up a front line of Hormagaunts and calling in airstrikes from the Guard?
That wasn't what I was thinking, more like a small force of Custodian Guard are fighting an Ork force and the Eldar strike the Orks from the side, picking off important targets in the Ork Waaagh and picking up whatever objectives they need before leaving, caring little for the survival of the Custodes. So only one allied faction, not three. Writing this out I am thinking maybe the OC of the allies of convenience should be unable to score objectives, only able to prevent enemies from taking them, something of that sort. I can see Eldar striking at some key Astra Militarum targets to help a swarm of Tyranids overwhelm a strategic location in time for the Tyranids to meet with a Chaos fleet that will be coming into realspace in a month. Maybe writing this out is impossible in a way that doesn't feel like you're just picking up 3 Riptides because they are undercosted and also not be completely trash because the units cannot hold objectives for you and have no detachment benefits.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/08/31 10:12:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/09/01 02:43:26
Subject: Re:10th Aeldari Detachments
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Fixture of Dakka
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That style of allies is a huge can of worms that introduces a ton of design challenges. And frankly, eldar showing up when third parties are present isn't so much of an "eldar thing" that it needs to be represented as a detachment rule. If you want to do something like that among your friend group, just agree to do some form of Open Play and acknowledge that the balance of the game will probably be diminished a bit as a result. Which is fine.
Stratagems (and to a lesser degree enhancements) are listed to make you suggest to add something if you think one detachment has gotta have this or that strat.
Respectfully, that approach seems literally backwards. If you want suggestions for stratagems, don't pre-assign names. Coming up with a cool name is the last step of the process; not the first.
Rolling 6+ FNP for everything would be a chore. I thought 5+ against MW would be too much.
It is a bit of a chore, but it's also a pretty doable chore as we saw when it was a detachment rule in 8th (and 9th?). 5+ vs MW is hard to measure because some armies have tons of mortal wounds and depend on them to accomplish things like killing tanks whereas other armies might not have any baked-in DW/ MW at all. Regardless, 6+ FNP vs only MWs for only a couple turns of the game is borderline useless in most matchups.
Implementations for ambushes did not come forth in droves, the main thing I thought about was enemies being on their own making ideal targets.
Off the top of my head:
* <insert offense buff here> vs enemy units that have no other enemy units within 6" of them.
* <insert offense buff here>on the turn a unit arrives from reserves.
* <insert offense buff here> on your turn vs a target that began the turn within engagement range of one of your units. (So basically, it lets you bait the enemy into charging one of your distraction units who then fall back and leave the target exposed to your other units attacks.)
* <insert offense buff here> while your unit is within terrain and your target is not.
* Battle Focus. That is, move-shoot-move; it lends itself to guerilla warfare type maneuvers.
* Booby trap strats (see: 9th edition).
Then Hand of Khaine needed something other than just alliance rules...
You don't seem to have anything called "Hand of Khaine" in your original post. However, if the only idea you have for a detachment is "allies," then you should either have a strong thematic reason for leaning into allies and be prepared to address some tough design choices (see: the GSC Brood Brothers detachment), or else you should scrap that detachment entirely.
Cegorach's Jest is not a Harlequin detachment and there will be no Harlequin detachment, because Harlequin armies should be able to choose from multiple detachments depending on whether they want to play more aggressively or have fate themes. People were playing mono-Harlequins in 8th, it can be done in 10th if GW writes the right rules for them.
You've named the detachment after the laughing god, named the enhancements after harlequin rules/concepts from past editions, filled the stratagem list with names that evoke harlequin imagery, and made the detachment rule part of the old harlequin flip belt rules. Everything about this detachment screams, "This is the harlequin detachment," even if you want harlies to be viable in other detachments. In the same way that the kroot detachment in the Tau codex is clearly made for spamming kroot even if you sometimes field kroot in other detachments.
Do you think Twillight needs to turn off after the first failed save?
That would make it less feelsbad for your opponent but potentially even more feelsbad for the harlequin player. I think you're probably better off just scrapping this rule and trying something else.
It being ideal for Troupe Masters is fantastic since I meant for it to replace Twillight Fang, a Troupe Master only Relic. Keep in mind it only kicks in turn 3 and if his unit dies he loses his unit he loses Devastating wounds because of the wonderful way 10th is written, Eldar have other ways to spend their 6s, but if this gives mono-Harlequins a great way to do the same then that should be fine, those things in mind I am not so sure it will be a problem.
I don't see anything suggesting this rule doesn't kick in on turn 3. Did you forget to write part of the rule in your post? Regardless, tripling the damage of a troupe master's weapon is a massive increase in a cheap unit's lethality. How many points do you intent to charge for that enhancement? My gut says it would need to be something crazy like 50 points, and that might still be too low.
Yeah, Sisters copying for Ynnead, you think that fits thematically? I'm a bit concerned about wounded vehicles getting a buff? Soul Burst would generate new Fate dice to double down on the Sisters thing.
Copying sisters seems thematic here, yeah. I see what you mean about vehicles. You could probably just word the rule to specifically impact aeldari infantry, mounted, and beast units, and that should do the trick. That proposed strat seems reasonable to me.
Yep 6" Scout for Khaine. You don't think the extra range is useful for short-ranged weapons like meltas and shurikens if you go first?
It's useful for delivering a first turn punch. The thing is, throwing expensive elves at the opponent's front lines strikes me as a bad idea because your opponent will
A.) just feed you a cheap screen.
B.) Counter-attack your squishy, expensive elves and come out better overall in the exchange.
In my experience, eldar don't want to over-commit early like that; they wan to whittle down the enemy at a range, use their mobility to avoid the enemy's offense, and *then* get close on turns 2 or 3. Those turn 2 or 3 attacks should be wiping out important enemy units so that the dragons, banshees, etc. involved aren't still around to counter-attack.
Army-wide scout moves could still be somewhat useful, but I think they'd mostly just end up being useful for like, the Avatar or wraith lists where you're rushing durable units that can take a counter-attack up the table. You're running World Eaters software on eldar hardware, basically.
One thing to consider is that you'd be able to move things out of line of sight as well
Generally, you can just deploy units out of line of sight instead. Though admittedly this could help some units take advantage of terrain outside their deployment zone.
Any ideas for Stratagems that could help level things out for long-ranged units that might not need the pre-game move in a way you'd like?
I'm not entirely sure what this detachment is going for, so it's hard to recommend strats for it. As-written, it seems like this detachment is for people who want to do a "jail" list (i.e. putting lots of up-close pressure on the enemy early so they have trouble leaving their deployment zone and asserting board control), and I'm just not entirely sure how viable that concept is for our T3 W1 elves. Which is why I see this detachment mostly being useful for things like wraiths.
Most of our shooty units either don't want or don't need a scout move. Reapers want to hide out of line of sight and keep their distance while tempest launchering things. Anything with Fly in our army moves fast enough to generally not *need* scout if you deployed them well. War walkers and anhrathe already scout. Dragons don't like footslogging and are probably arriving via a deepstriking falcon. Guardian defenders want to sit back and camp the home objective where they're relatively safe.
The best use-cases that comes to midn are support weapons (to get a D-Cannon into a more aggressive position behind a wall somewhere), avengers (to reach objectives turn 1), and rangers (who could movement block harder or use the scout move to hop up on top of some ruins they'd infiltrated into . But aside from that, I'm not sure out shooting units really need a scout move.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/09/01 15:51:19
Subject: 10th Aeldari Detachments
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Hand of Khaine got combined with Avengers of Asuryan and Hunters of Kurnous. Khaine's Sword is new, sorry about the confusion.
So your point with regards to Cegorach's Jest is that it will feel bad for Harlequin players to see "here's my detachment" only to discover that the detachment does not enable efficient mono-Harlequin armies? How would I go about fixing things? Enabling Shadowseers to spam their once per turn thing might be a nice gesture but I don't see it changing the scales much. The Kroot Detachment is a Kroot Detachment because it buffs Kroot, Cegorach's Jest does not buff Harlequins, it just uses Harlequin themes. If the Kroot Detachment just used Kroot themes of physical improvement over technological improvement and applied to all Tau it'd be the same.
Yep, forgot the turn limiter on the Player of the Dark enhancement. Interesting that you rate it that high, is that with the turn 3+ thing in mind? I try to aim for a power level of about 20 pts per enhancement. I'll go with 50 for this one if you think that's still aggressively costed and makes it an effective enhancement for Troupe Masters.
While there will be a jail aspects to Khaine's Sword, I figure it would be more focussed on killing than surviving and keeping the enemy contained. So the Detachment needs Stratagems that help units kill, but those Stratagems need to be written in such a way that you don't just use Endless Cacaphony every turn.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/09/01 21:40:38
Subject: 10th Aeldari Detachments
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Fixture of Dakka
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vict0988 wrote:
So your point with regards to Cegorach's Jest is that it will feel bad for Harlequin players to see "here's my detachment" only to discover that the detachment does not enable efficient mono-Harlequin armies? How would I go about fixing things? Enabling Shadowseers to spam their once per turn thing might be a nice gesture but I don't see it changing the scales much. The Kroot Detachment is a Kroot Detachment because it buffs Kroot, Cegorach's Jest does not buff Harlequins, it just uses Harlequin themes. If the Kroot Detachment just used Kroot themes of physical improvement over technological improvement and applied to all Tau it'd be the same.
Well, a few things here:
A.) If you *don't* intend for the detachment with harlequin names and harlequin-esque rules to actually be "the harlequin detachment," then just change the names so that you aren't accidentally setting that expectation. Imagine if the tau codex had a "Kroot Hunting Pack" detachment with lots of kroot-related names, and it turned out the entire detachment was actually designed to support piranhas or something.
B.) On the other hand, if you *do* want this to be "the harlequin detachment" that makes purely harlequin armies viable, then addressing some of the known issues with harlies makes sense. Bringing back fall back & charge is a good start to that. Letting multiple DJs use Death is Not Enough would make taking multiple DJs more viable. Letting multiple Seers use their powers would give you ways of delivering multiple foot troupes into combat relatively safely. Maybe letting a troupe unit be joined by both a seer and a troupe master so that the TM isn't forced to either ride with a tiny weaver squad or else functionally slow down and make squishy a large foot squad. Strats with sticky objectives so that our elite melee army doesn't have to stand on objectives all game might help as would some uppy downy or mobility strats in general. Enhancements that provide additional or alternate psychic powers to seers could provide a lot of versatility.
C.) That said, I think the *ideal* solution would start with an overhaul of some of the harlequin datasheets, some pivotal role style ability swap options, possibly an expansion of some wargear options, and an overhaul of a lot of the harlie weapons.
So pick your objective I guess.
Yep, forgot the turn limiter on the Player of the Dark enhancement. Interesting that you rate it that high, is that with the turn 3+ thing in mind?
It's less powerful with the turn 3 restriction in mind, although how powerful it really is will depend a lot on the matchup and the game plan. If you weren't planning to start stabbing things with that particular model until T3 anyway (ex: because you want to soften the enemy up with shooting first), it doesn't make a difference. If you *need* the TM to be in combat by turn 2 at the latest and the game is basically decided by the end of turn 3, then the turn limitation might be frustratingly limiting. (Also, not sure what the lore is supposed to be here. Seems strange that the TM waits until the second half of the battle to be hyper lethal.)
The reason I was rating it so high is that low Damage is the main thing keeping the TM from being a pretty terrifying beatstick. Currently, the max melee damage output for a TM is 3 dead intercessors. And more realistically, you're looking at closer to 1. With D3, every failed save (or DW) is a dead intercessor. Or a dead terminator. Or nearly a third of a rhino's health. Or an automatically dead W3 character if you use the Epic Duel strat. Tripling the damage of his weapons completely changes how good he is against a wide variety of targets. Like, I'm pretty sure he solos something like a war walker or carnifex with that change.
So with all that in mind, I think making people wait for their hyperlethality to kick in is an awkward balancing mechanic. If it made their Damage 2, it would still be really powerful, but you wouldn't be insta-gibbing characters and terminators or making tanks sweat. Making it a once per battle rule that you choose when it activates could also work. So you'll get a huge spike in damage at a key moment, but you aren't left unable to use it on turn 1 or 2.
While there will be a jail aspects to Khaine's Sword, I figure it would be more focussed on killing than surviving and keeping the enemy contained. So the Detachment needs Stratagems that help units kill, but those Stratagems need to be written in such a way that you don't just use Endless Cacaphony every turn.
I'm not clear on what the goal for this detachment is. It seems like it has two main elements: killing stuff, and jailing stuff.
Killing stuff hyper-efficiently is pretty feelsbad for your opponent and encourages an arms race. So I personally don't like leaning into that sort of mechanic.
Jailing stuff seems like an iffy goal for eldar per my previous post, but it is theoretically a different sort of playstyle.
If you want to lean into the former and away from the latter, then I'm not sure how to make that interesting. I guess as a rule of thumb, lethality buffs should come with some sort of drawback that makes the mechanic interesting for your opponent as well. I.e. needing to maneuver units in a difficult or inherently risky fashion. Needing to mark the targets you get lethality buffs in advance using some sort of resource. Needing to make targets fail a battleshock test or be isolated. Etc.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/09/01 23:32:22
Subject: 10th Aeldari Detachments
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Confessor Of Sins
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A few comments/questions about your project here:
vict0988 wrote:Design Goals: Create 5 Eldar Detachments that are each geared toward a thematic warfare strategy Eldar employ and give different playstyles and experiences while allowing the use of an almost infinite number of lists within each detachment. The themes are destiny, playing enemies against each other and strategic precision, strategic adaptability and guerilla warfare, rebirth and retribution, lightning assaults that leave the enemy devastated.
Cool, expect these are not the lore-centric Eldar ways of battle. They seem to be play-styles. Why not identify the Eldar ways of battle and then build detachments made from them?
1. Morai-Heg's Blood
Detachment Rule: Seer Stones (After both sides have deployed, but before you have determined who will have the first turn, you must assign a different one of the Seer Stones below to each of the first five battle rounds.
At the start of each battle round, the Seer Stone that you assigned to that battle round and either the Seer Stone of the previous battle round or the following battle round becomes active for your army until the end of that battle round, turn 1 and turn 5 you can choose the excess Seer Stone instead.
Air: When advancing, Aeldari units from your army can double their Movement characteristic instead of rolling a D6.
Infinity: Each time an attack is made against an Aeldari unit from your army, if that unit did not make a Normal Move, Advance, or Fall Back this battle round, it receives the benefit of Cover.
Soulstone: Aeldari units from your army have a 6+ Feel No Pain against Mortal Wounds (roll a d6 each time a model suffers a mortal wound; on a 6, the wound is ignored).
Salvation: Aeldari units from your army are eligible to shoot in a turn in which they Fell Back, but if they do, then until the end of the turn, each time a model in the unit makes a ranged attack, subtract 1 from that attack’s hit roll.
Outcast: Each time a model in an Aeldari unit from your army makes a ranged attack that targets a unit within half range, the target does not receive the benefits of Cover to its saving throw against that attack.
Freedom: Aeldari units from your army can move across models and terrain as if they were not there.)
This is an awful detachment ability. It is too complex with 5 moving parts. It is too fiddly with the pick the order of these 5 abilities. It is very similar to Necron Command Protocols. Remember how much everyone loved those?
I am also unable to see what these abilities are supposed to represent? What the heck does Seer Stones have to do with the abilities you gain?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/09/02 18:09:30
Subject: 10th Aeldari Detachments
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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alextroy wrote:A few comments/questions about your project here:
vict0988 wrote:Design Goals: Create 5 Eldar Detachments that are each geared toward a thematic warfare strategy Eldar employ and give different playstyles and experiences while allowing the use of an almost infinite number of lists within each detachment. The themes are destiny, playing enemies against each other and strategic precision, strategic adaptability and guerilla warfare, rebirth and retribution, lightning assaults that leave the enemy devastated.
Cool, expect these are not the lore-centric Eldar ways of battle. They seem to be play-styles. Why not identify the Eldar ways of battle and then build detachments made from them?
1. Morai-Heg's Blood
Detachment Rule: Seer Stones (After both sides have deployed, but before you have determined who will have the first turn, you must assign a different one of the Seer Stones below to each of the first five battle rounds.
At the start of each battle round, the Seer Stone that you assigned to that battle round and either the Seer Stone of the previous battle round or the following battle round becomes active for your army until the end of that battle round, turn 1 and turn 5 you can choose the excess Seer Stone instead.
Air: When advancing, Aeldari units from your army can double their Movement characteristic instead of rolling a D6.
Infinity: Each time an attack is made against an Aeldari unit from your army, if that unit did not make a Normal Move, Advance, or Fall Back this battle round, it receives the benefit of Cover.
Soulstone: Aeldari units from your army have a 6+ Feel No Pain against Mortal Wounds (roll a d6 each time a model suffers a mortal wound; on a 6, the wound is ignored).
Salvation: Aeldari units from your army are eligible to shoot in a turn in which they Fell Back, but if they do, then until the end of the turn, each time a model in the unit makes a ranged attack, subtract 1 from that attack’s hit roll.
Outcast: Each time a model in an Aeldari unit from your army makes a ranged attack that targets a unit within half range, the target does not receive the benefits of Cover to its saving throw against that attack.
Freedom: Aeldari units from your army can move across models and terrain as if they were not there.)
This is an awful detachment ability. It is too complex with 5 moving parts. It is too fiddly with the pick the order of these 5 abilities. It is very similar to Necron Command Protocols. Remember how much everyone loved those?
I am also unable to see what these abilities are supposed to represent? What the heck does Seer Stones have to do with the abilities you gain?
How would you define ways of battle? If you mean lists, like Wraith spam, Aspect spam, Flyer spam, Mechdar, Knight spam then I find that it reduces player agency in list building by punishing well-rounded lists when detachments focus on lists, by focusing on play styles each of these spammy lists or your small 1k starting Eldar collection gets 5 different ways to play. I would say these playstyles are thematic representations of Eldar ways of battle.
The abilities are meant to evoke a feeling and theme more than they are supposed to be specific representations of something happening, like how does Eldar prophecy get transmitted to re-rolls on every unit? It's an expression of the theme of things going well for the Eldar because they have prophecy on their side, so it's not a Farseer nudging 20 rolls every round of battle. In the same way it is not that the Eldar are using specific magics or technology to make these effects happen, but a feeling that the Eldar have foreseen the way things are going to go and can manipulate things in their favour. I know this detachment is very complicated, I think that is fitting for Eldar a faction that has often been the high skill faction, there is also the very simple 6" Scout if you don't feel like dealing with the Seer Stone nonsense. People disliked the Necron Command Protocols for them being too weak and complicated. These are not even half as complicated, no restrictions on needing to be near characters and each stone has one effect instead of two. If you have another suggestion for how to express the themes this detachment expresses or effects that would feel less gamey, while still being fun then please post and thank you for sharing your opinions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/09/03 00:14:20
Subject: Re:10th Aeldari Detachments
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Confessor Of Sins
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If the theme of Morai-Heg's Blood is Aeldari leaning into the divinations of their seers, the detachment's abilities should all be about being either at the right place at the right time or avoiding being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Trying to get the player to predict how the game is going to play and therefore when each of a list of abilities will be helpful (assuming they will every be helpful) to the progress of the game is bad design. They will inevitably be wrong and feel bad accordingly. I embrace the KISS principle, Keep It Simple Smarty (as my band instructor used to say  )
I'm spitballing here, but a simple detachment ability that leans into that could be:
Prophecized Position: Aeldari units in your may re-roll Advance rolls and Charge rolls.
This ensures the player has maximum ability to place their units where they want to. Then you add Enhancements and Stratagems around movement (like reactionary moves or improved Reserves placement), improving advantages (Like adding Abilities to attacks and/or improving Critical Hit chance or giving their opponents to hit penalties), and mitigating disadvantages (like negating penalties or cover). This gives the players a more active way to be a seer as they are able to "overreact" to their opponents actions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/09/04 03:53:19
Subject: 10th Aeldari Detachments
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Fixture of Dakka
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Agreed with alextroy about reactive stratagems being a good way to capture the flavor of seer support. Things like:
* Phantasm (per the index)
* An extra overwatch strat. ("Forewarning?") Maybe allow multiple units to overwatch if you sacrifice a high-value fate die when you use the strat in the movement phase?
* A redeploy strat.
* A strat to let you cast Fortune, Guide, or Doom from the location of a psyker that doesn't have the rule. (Similar to the old warlock rule that let them basically serve as vox casters for your psychic powers; I forget the old name.)
* A strat to use a psychic power that was already used this turn. (Encourages fielding more psykers.)
* A strat to use a psychic power while inside a transport. Can target a unit within range of the transport. If the power targets a friendly unit, can target a unit inside a transport within range of the transport. (Although I guess this is maybe too specific as it mostly helps Fortune seers.)
I think trying to predict the flow of battle in advance could be fun, but we could also probably simplify the mechanic quite a bit. Maybe something similar to Doctrines. Something like:
Prophetic Tactics
At the start of your command phase, you may select one of the following Visions. That Vision remains in effect until it is fulfilled. Once a vision is fulfilled, gain a Fate die. Each Vision may only be selected once per game.
Vision of Murder: When this vision is selected, select an enemy unit that has not been destroyed during this battle. While this vision is active, you may reroll to-wound rolls of 1 against that unit. This vision is fulfilled when the selected unit is destroyed.
Vision of Conquest: While this vision is in effect, units contesting objectives outside of your deployment zone treat their OC as 1 higher. This vision is fulfilled when you control more objectives than your opponent at the end of your command phase.
Vision of Danger: When this vision is selected, select one enemy unit that has not been destroyed during this battle. Friendly units have Feel No Pain (5+) against attacks made by the selected unit. This vision is fulfilled when the selected unit destroys a friendly unit using an attack.
So you have fewer overall rules to remember. You have more flexibility in when each benefit kicks in. You have synergy with psyker rules like Branching Fates. I'm sure it could be improved on, but just a suggestion for a starting point.
You could also easily have a stratagem to change the active Vision without fulfilling the current one or to re-use a Vision that you've fulfilled.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/09/05 03:11:53
Subject: Re:10th Aeldari Detachments
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Confessor Of Sins
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Nice idea Wyldhunt. Very prophetic ideas there. I really like Vision of Danger turning the allotment of FNP in reverse of normal.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/09/05 17:50:41
Subject: 10th Aeldari Detachments
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Whoops? Deleted this message. Something something I get why someone might not like Seer Stones, but Eldar are kind enigmatic and high skill and I liked Command Protocols so I'm keeping Seer Stones for now.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/09/07 06:12:15
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/09/06 03:46:39
Subject: 10th Aeldari Detachments
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Confessor Of Sins
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I'm still not seeing a theme in the rules for this detachment other than win. I also strongly dislike the pick the order these rules will be used in at the beginning of the battle for reasons already stated. vict0988 wrote:1. Morai-Heg's Blood
Detachment Rule: Seer Stones (After both sides have deployed, but before you have determined who will have the first turn, you must assign a different one of the Seer Stones below to each of the first five battle rounds.
At the start of each battle round, the Seer Stone that you assigned to that battle round and either the Seer Stone of the previous battle round or the following battle round becomes active for your army until the end of that battle round, turn 1 and turn 5 you can choose the excess Seer Stone instead.
Air
Equipped with advanced star engines and guided by matchless agility, Aeldari vehicles and warriors move with an elegance that defies the limitations of lesser races. Their speed is not merely a function of technology, but a finely honed mastery of battlefield awareness, allowing them to reposition at will with unmatched precision.
When advancing, Aeldari units from your army can double their Movement characteristic instead of rolling a D6.
This is radically overpowered without significant limitations added to it. Simply making all Advance rolls a 6 is strong, but allowing effectively double moves is insane. As written, I would want a no-shooting nor charging rider added to the ability.
Infinity
Utilizing sophisticated holographic fields and psychically attuned camouflage, the Aeldari enhance their ability to blend into their surroundings. Their warriors are briefed on the exact moments they need to remain motionless, becoming invisible to the enemy's targeting systems.
Each time an attack is made against an Aeldari unit from your army, if that unit did not make a Normal Move, Advance, or Fall Back this battle round, it receives the benefit of Cover.
This is weak. It is only useful to units that already moved into an exposed position in the prior turn, which means it is only useful if you go second.
Soulstone
Before battle, Aeldari spirit seers channel the energy of soulstones into temporary protective wards, designed to shield their warriors from psychic onslaughts. These hastily woven barriers, however, cannot last indefinitely, their power fading as the intensity of battle rises and falls.
Aeldari units from your army have a 6+ Feel No Pain against Mortal Wounds (roll a d6 each time a model suffers a mortal wound; on a 6, the wound is ignored).
This is a game slowing nightmare of dice rolling if active on the right Battle Round. Why not one of the many other defensive buffs than an army-wide FNP?
Salvation
In the midst of battle, Aeldari forces execute their retreats with precision, relying on advanced tactical protocols and foresight. Their warriors can withdraw fluidly from combat and still unleash a torrent of firepower, maintaining pressure even as they reposition for advantage.
Aeldari units from your army are eligible to shoot in a turn in which they Fell Back, but if they do, then until the end of the turn, each time a model in the unit makes a ranged attack, subtract 1 from that attack’s hit roll.
Reasonable, although still very strong on an army-wide basis. Most armies have to use a Stratagem to get this although they avoid the -1 To Hit.
Outcast
The Aeldari utilize crystal targeting matrixes and other advanced sensor systems that grant unparalleled accuracy, ensuring their shots strike true even in the densest terrain. With this flawless precision, their warriors eliminate any advantage the enemy might find in cover.
Each time a model in an Aeldari unit from your army makes a ranged attack that targets a unit within half range, the target does not receive the benefits of Cover to its saving throw against that attack.
Reasonable, although still strong on an army-wide basis.
Freedom
Before battle, Ghostwalk Matrixes are attuned to the battlefield, their spirit stones containing the ancient wisdom of past warriors. These devices guide Aeldari forces along unseen paths, allowing them to move effortlessly through obstacles, as if the terrain itself bends to their will.
Aeldari FLY units from your army can move across models and terrain as if they were not there.
Do you mean non-FLY units? Fly units can already do this.
Stratagems:
Fate’s Veil
The Weave Unravels
Shrouded in Mystery
Whisper of Doom
Threads of Fate
Piercing Insight
Enhancements:
Keeper of Destiny (conceals the order of your Seer Stones)
I abhor Secret Information in 40K. It requires you to trust your opponent won't be a
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/09/06 21:14:24
Subject: 10th Aeldari Detachments
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Fixture of Dakka
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@Vict, did you change something in that latest post? If so, I'm not seeing what changed at a glance.
To reiterate some of my earlier nitpicks:
*Infinity, in addition to only working if you go second (good catch alextroy), is only useful on units that want to hold still but don't want to hold still while hiding out of line of sight. So I'm not sure what the use case is for this. Night spinners after your opponent maneuvered to draw line of sight to them maybe? Vict, what use case are you picturing for this? What eldar unit wants to sit still to count as being in cover instead of just using its mobility to actually be in cover?
* Soulstone doesn't seem like *that much* of a slowdown given that it only lasts for a turn or two. But given that it only lasts for a turn or two and only applies against mortal wounds and only makes a difference 1/6th of the time, I feel like this is just way too weak.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/09/06 22:32:49
Subject: Re:10th Aeldari Detachments
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Confessor Of Sins
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I missed that Soul Stone was FNP against Mortal Wounds only. That changes my comment from "This is a game slowing nightmare of dice rolling if active on the right Battle Round. Why not one of the many other defensive buffs than an army-wide FNP?" to "weak and highly situational".
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/09/07 06:21:43
Subject: 10th Aeldari Detachments
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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There is nothing that connects the different Seer Stones, the nature of this kind of thing is that they probably have to be radically different for the overall ability to be interesting, if you are choosing between 6 different mobility, defensive or offensive buffs it is less interesting. Why these runes? I searched for runes and wanted to pick ones not associated with any specific units.
Wyldhunt wrote:@Vict, did you change something in that latest post? If so, I'm not seeing what changed at a glance.
To reiterate some of my earlier nitpicks:
*Infinity, in addition to only working if you go second (good catch alextroy), is only useful on units that want to hold still but don't want to hold still while hiding out of line of sight. So I'm not sure what the use case is for this. Night spinners after your opponent maneuvered to draw line of sight to them maybe? Vict, what use case are you picturing for this? What eldar unit wants to sit still to count as being in cover instead of just using its mobility to actually be in cover?
* Soulstone doesn't seem like *that much* of a slowdown given that it only lasts for a turn or two. But given that it only lasts for a turn or two and only applies against mortal wounds and only makes a difference 1/6th of the time, I feel like this is just way too weak.
I just added some fluff and added a few Harlequin buffs to Cegorach. Now I nerfed Air, buffed Soul (this was the original version but I accidentally deleted the Leadership part before posting), removed the part about models on Freedom, it is meant to allow skimmers to hop over ruins and trees like in every previous edition. Infinity works for every unit if you go second, but it also works if you go first if you stand still. I imagine you could park a unit on an objective without terrain and benefit from cover.
I also wrote out the Enhancements for Morai Heg with a self-sacrifice theme, might need to totally re-tooled when I get to Ynnead's rules. Divide and Conquer for Kurnous and Headstrong for Khaine has been written out.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/09/07 18:52:27
Subject: 10th Aeldari Detachments
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Fixture of Dakka
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Infinity works for every unit if you go second, but it also works if you go first if you stand still. I imagine you could park a unit on an objective without terrain and benefit from cover.
Having rules behave radically differently based on whether you go first or second is probably a bad idea in general, and I'm pretty sure I can count on one hand the number of times I've opted to not move a craftworld unit in the movemente phase this edition. We're not marines. We don't stomp forward onto objectives and then face tank a bunch of incoming shots. And as described, you're looking at this minor defensive buff only applying to a small subset of units (the ones that are sitting on objectives the turn after they moved onto them) and only applying for a single turn. That's waaaaay too situational/low-impact.
Just remove the movement restriction from Infinity. It doesn't create a meaningful choice because the scenarios where I'd rather have cover than move are so few and far between that there's almost no benefit to it.
Speaking as someone who seems to fail a lot of Battleshock tests, the Leadership buff on Soul Stone is not very valuable. Even when units do get battleshocked, it's kind of rare for that to dramatically throw off my plans. And the FNP portion is still extremely low value. Like, you could change it to FNP 2+ against mortal wounds and it would still be an iffy choice given how little of the damage I take tends to be mortals/ dev wounds.
If you're struggling to come up with 5 or 6 distinctive, useful stones, then maybe shrink the number down to like, 3, and have them apply across multiple turns of the game. I.e. the first stone applies to battleround 1 and 2, the second to 3 and 4, and the third to 5. Then you can focus on just having one good mobility, offense, and defense buff. (Or whatever sort of buff you want to lean into.) This also makes the mechanic easier for the players to memorize/play with.
Your allies system for Hunters' is still asking for trouble. You're adding hundreds of datasheets to the mix and basically inviting people to take X points worth of whatever is most OP in the game at the moment. I'd just scrap this idea entirely, tbh.
Previous notes on the Jest still stand.
Do you have a clear idea of what the Khaine's Sword detachment is supposed to be? Either in terms of playstyle or fluff? It seems like maybe you've been coming up with names first on a lot of these and struggling to come up with mechanics to fit them.
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ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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