Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How do!

I know this will cheer a fair few folk up. As a long wished for All Knight List is coming. And coming soon, as the book is up for pre-order next week. Along with the Knight Battle Group.

Warhammer Community wrote:Rules for using an army entirely composed of Knight Household units can be found in Rise of the Dark Mechanicum.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/j6ipvaax/sunday-preview-open-the-forges-and-march-for-the-mechanicum/

Same article wrote: Infantry? Tanks? Pah, we don’t need that rabble where we’re going – take a straight shot through to Titan Town, where warriors are warriors, and a gun smaller than a school bus might as well be a pocket knife. The Titan Battle Group is an awesome assemblage of earthshaking military might, packing a Warlord Titan, a Reaver Titan, and two Warhound Scout Titans into one convenient box that can be deployed as an independent army with the rules found in Rise of the Dark Mechanicum.

I must say that this, along with the new edition of Kill Team, is winning me back as a GW customer. Still waiting for the reviews of course, but I have the following in mind for an army...

9x Questoris
2x Porphyrions
1 box of Solar Infantry (support)
4x Thunderbolt aircraft (support)

...so it's not all just giant robots of death, and the foot soliders visually provide the Knights with a sense of scale. I'd love to add a pair of Shadowswords but not seeing a formation that allows that with the above list.

I think this development has made AT a little bit redundant beyond it's alternative-but-acclaimed gameplay. Not saying GW should get rid of it( it would be a tragic loss ), but that LI also offers a game of Heresy-era Titans with supporting Knights...yet requires far less components to function. A new edition set in the 40K era would be the next logical move for AT.

I wonder if this might see more folks fielding allied Knights and Titans.

To date, I’ve gone pure Astartes. But based on what’s currently commercially available? I don’t really have much which can wallop a Titan. Grind it down over two or three turns? Yep, no bother there like. But nothing that can reliably coup de grace or cripple once the shields are down.

I’m not adverse to that like. But if facing all Knights or all Titans? I’ll need to do more than just play the Objective Game.

I really like where this is going.

Additionally, I wouldn't be against an all flier army either..

These alternative formations are almost like introducing entire new factions to the game, and an army designed to deal with all comers (ie. armies consisting entirely or almost entirely of Vehicles, Knights, Titans, or fliers) as well as regular combined arms armies can create quite vast requirements for any meta lists.. assuming overall balance gets established propely.

Yeah, same for all-flier as the situation with Aeronautica is frustrating.

Noticed that they're still selling the Custodes Gunship with an Aeronautica base, so I'll guess that there is a future book with rules for an all-aircraft mode when the Custodes finally get introduced.

I'm looking forward to it. A few more titans on the table is my kind of thing.

SamusDrake wrote:
I'd love to add a pair of Shadowswords but not seeing a formation that allows that with the above list.

Titan Hunter Company exists (from the Tallarn book), but it's minimum requirement is three Shadowswords.

There's also Super-Heavy Company (from Great Slaughter) with a minimum of any three Heavy Armour.

I think a Knight force should work at this level, but a little sceptical of how well an all-Titan force will function to be honest unless it requires some small amount of other forces.

I have to say, whilst I am keen to see these options out there I am a bit sceptical of GW's ability to implement them well. The fact we're getting these when we had the titandeath rules two books ago really makes it feel like the design team are a bit rudderless when it comes to LI, the lack of a consistent design approach (also obvious with the different implementation of points in each book...).

That said I am onboard with more justification for fielding companies of shadowswords and more titans!

 Arbitrator wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
I'd love to add a pair of Shadowswords but not seeing a formation that allows that with the above list.

Titan Hunter Company exists (from the Tallarn book), but it's minimum requirement is three Shadowswords.

There's also Super-Heavy Company (from Great Slaughter) with a minimum of any three Heavy Armour.

Perfect! Cheers, Arbitrator!

This is going to bring more variation and be a lot of fun!

Got the book in hand.

At first glance, Mechanicum seem fairly pokey. Whilst Tech-Thralls are little more than Objective Cloggers (single shot per base, 6+ to hit and CAF -1) they are cheap.

The Automata are pretty nasty. Lots of Light AT coupled to a decent rate of fire. But, Cybernatica Cortex (X) limits their native Order Options.

Whilst that can be overridden if one model in the unit is wholly within 8” of a Techpriest, it’s that classic Undead Web where if I can dismantle it? Mechanicum Forces become incredibly predictable. Which in a game where the careful consideration of Orders and activation is key, could be a major drawback if the Mechanicum player skimps on that web.

We do need some immediate Eratta though. See the big Dark Mechanicum Gribblies? Which clearly have undersling Lasutters in addition to their main gun? Yeah. The rules say it’s Lascutters or Big Gun A or Big Gun B, which can’t be correct. No, I’m talking bollocks. I was misidentifying the rules for the models. No Eratta needed there.

I’d say my picks for seemingly best units at face value? Thanatars (Plasma Mortar is Demolished with -3. So goodbye buildings!) and Myrmidon Secutors, who have Implacable, a free choice of Orders and CAF +6

Now….Tech Priests. We’ve three sources so far. Archmagos, Archmagos on Abeyant, and Tech-Priest Auxilia, which are HQ, HQ and Support accordingly. So there are only so many you can put into a Detachment. They do however have the option to join any Automata unit, and the Auxilia are 1-3 per slot.

Which is just as well, as we’ve a packed Support section, where they’re competing with both flavours of Myrmidon, Arlatax, Domitar and Castellax.

Core we have Tech-Thralls and Thallax. Thankfully, Thallaxi seem pretty tasty, and not too points intensive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also quite scant Point Defence, being restricted to Karachi’s Lightning Locks and the Krios variants Volkite sponsons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dark Mechanicum Construct Shields are interesting.

Like Ork Powerfields of yore, they absorb hits in the same manner as Voidshields. But once a shield is down, it stays down.

Where it gets interesting is the Constructs can be fielded in units. And there, hits continue to be allocated to Construct Shields until they’re all down, then we can start plinking away the juicy innards.

So, the Overlord (the biggest one) has Construct Shields (2), and can come in units of up to 6.

Therefore, a maximum sized unit needs to have all 12 shields knocked down before the unit takes any meaningful damage.

This I quite like the feel of. As an opponent, I need to really concentrate my fire if I want to erode or destroy such a unit. And in the early game, means the Constructs may be quite survivable.

The point defence shortfall is a bummer, but I'm seeing the possibility of using a Cybernetica Formation just ot add a bunch of Tech-Auxillia as allies to a vehicle heavy marine or solar auxillia army as allies.

I missed the 'merging shields' ability. That will help with the 'all Construct' army.

In terms of Formations? I think I’d be tempted by the Legio Cybernetica Cohort.

Outside of Core, Transport and Titan slots, all units must have the Cortex Controller or Cybernetica Cortex special rule. So basically, no Mechanicum tanks or Myrmidons.

The upside? And this could be pretty tasty? Cortex Controllers in that Formation boost their range from 8” to 12”.

Also, Cortex Controllers can do their thing on multiple units at a time (adding clarification in general, it’s not tied to this specific Formation).

Or, from the Set Menu, we have the Loyalist *deep breath* Exsomnis-Tertiary Cybernetica Cohort.

Whilst less flexible in choice (Compulsories are AM of Abeyant, 3 Domitar, 6 Castellax, 6 Castellax, 4 Voraz. Optional (and all or none so far as I can see) 3 Tech-Priest Auxilia, 6 Castellax, 6 Castellax, 3 Domitar, 4 Vorax, 4 Thanatar with Plasma Mortars.

It’s perk is Adaptive Protocols

When a detachment from this Formation has the Cybernetica Cortex (X) special rule is activated, its Order may be replaced with a new Order. The new Order must be the same Order as one issued to a friendly Detachment from this Formation that has the Cybernetica Cortex (X) special rule and is within 6” of the activated unit_

The new Order can be an Order other than those shown in the activated Detachments Cybernetica Controller (X) special rule, even if the activated Detachment is not within range of a Cyber Controller

This is nicely reactive, but I suspect is going to take a bit of trial and error gaming to really get the most out of it.

Another oddity? Very, very few equipment options. Where Astartes get flexibility in their tanks in terms of turrets and sponsons, Mechanicum are largely a single loadout.

Exceptions are the Thanatar (5pt upgrade for the Laser and Concussion Hammer Thing) and the Krios (Lightning Cannon or Rad thing). Oh, and Myrmidon Destructors, who have Conversion Beamers or Volkite,

I think Thallax are the real winners here, awesome stats, fast, light at weapons and cheap as chips. Castellax seem disappointingly poor though, not surprised as they need to be kept somewhat inline with Dreads but I dont see their worth, still going to be taking 4 bases minimum allied to my TS though!

Thallaxi are certainly a very reliable unit.

I’d still want a good amount of Tech-Thralls as sacrificial prawns. They don’t put up anything really resembling a fight like, but used to infest Objectives and/or get in the way of non-jump capable enemies looking to get into HTH, they most definitely have a role.

Thallaxi are just vicious. As you say, lots of Light AT at pretty reasonable range for an infantry unit. And thanks to Jump? More capable of getting the flank or rear of enemy armour exposed, when the Light AT trait is very much offset.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not massively sold on their HTH brothers though.

Then again, I guess CAF +3 and Jump makes them handy for clearing out occupied buildings.

Having a nightmare of a time trying to make a list I am happy with, the formations are a lot more restrictive than I anticipated. Lots of leftovers from the starter if playing DM.

Is it the Tech-Priests making it tricksy? Or the generally over subscribed Support Section?

The massive amount of support and the need to take Thralls mostly. I really do not want to take Thralls but if you take Cybernetica then you cant have tanks and if you take DM you can't have loads of stuff, including Castellax.
Trying to find a balance is a nightmare.

And now having had time for a good old ponder? I think Mechanicum have the potential to be a very powerful force, particularly where there’s a gap in player skill.

The main advantage they have is a lot of Light AT weapons, and a typically high rate of fire on the Automata.

If your opponent doesn’t start taking out your Tech-Priests early on, you’ve the same tactical flexibility in terms of orders as Solar Auxilia.

But, without the Tech-Priests, stuff like Castellax can’t even Charge, and most of your Automats can’t go on First Fire. And that can come about from me Making Them All Dead From A Nasty Case Of Not Being Alive Anymore, and/or you not taking enough.

It can also mean your Automata Detachments hang around in groups, as whilst you could run your Tech-Priests solo, they can still Cortex Controller multiple units whilst they themselves are embedded in a unit (might I suggest Thanatars, as they’re quite tough to put down)

That in itself could be a drawback, as one way or the other I as your opponent can make reasonable predictions about what you might be about to try in the Issue Orders phase. And anything left out of Cortex range simply may not be able to counter any daft shenanigans I might try.

Vultarax in particular, being your recon/flankers may have to operate on their limited orders for most of the game

Definitely a lot of potential here, and use well they’re going to be a tricky foe.

Agreed, both sides seem to play very muh like CIS did in SW Legion and Nids did in previous 40k/Epic. The command and control is vital to the force and the battle plan will revolve around keeping overlapping bubbles of cortex to do what you want. Think they are in for a world of hurt when things are introduced that can snipe out characters!

Leaning into tanks and stalkers might be a viable if fragile strategy though.

Need to read up on the Walker rules, as I’m not immediately sure if Automata need be overly concerned by Light weapons?

They do not have armoured and their shields will be eaten by anything with light AT, so it will be a concern.

Looked it up, and its Armoured we need to look at.

Units with the Armoured trait can be hurt by Light weapons, but always treat such a a hit as AP0, and can re-roll the save.

So fair resilience there, but nothing which would make me laugh in the face of say, massed Tactical Squads.

Edit as Ingtaer cross posted. All the Automata barring Vorax have Armoured.

I cross posted but completely missed that you said Automata and read Stalkers! They are on my brain apparently!

Walkers, Stalkers, easily confused when the rules are this new!

But for Good Mechanicum, being susceptible to every weapon my units might be packing is something to keep in mind. And there’s a particular vulnerability to Light AT, as at that point I’m starting to modify your armour. Likewise those rarer, bloody useful weapons which have no trait at all.

Of course, upside is the prevalence of Light AT over Anti-tank means Mechanicum can do hideous things to enemy Infantry, even if they’re hiding in Transports.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ignore this bit. Construct Shields don’t need the FAQ I thought.

Might as well add the observation from the Heresy News Thread.

As things stand, there is no current away (native rule or Formation) to raise lost Construct Shields

This is interesting to me, as it suggests Dark Mechanicum will require quite careful asset allocation to deal with in the early game. Because once the shields are gone? They’re not terribly hard to deal with, with only W2 or W3, and 3+ or 2+ save.

I think I’d want to batter down as many shields as I can, first turn, whilst getting speedy stuff up around the rear to start really walloping them turns 3 and 4.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As promised, a quick rundown of What Sits Where for Mechanicum

HQ

Archmagos Prime

Archmagos Prime on Abeyant

Core

Adsecularis Tech-Thrall Covenant (utterly useless in combat by any metric, but cheap, plentiful and good for clogging up buildings and objectives, or interposing between would be attackers and stuff you don’t want beaten up)

Thallax Cohort (really really really good. 3 Light AT shots each)

Support

Tech-Priest Auxilia (1-3 per slot, deploy separately, essential for maintain Synaptic Web)

Myrmidon Sectutor Host (basic infantry shooting, hideous in assault with CAF +6)

Myrmidon Destructor Hose (fairly shooty, choose between Conversion Beamers (valuable, as no Weapon Trait so can smack anything) or Volkite)

Arlatax Battle-Automata Maniple (fast infantry, reasonably tanky with W2, CAF +6 and three Light AT shots. Very solid, but few per box)

Domitar Battle-Automata Maniple (20” range Missile Launchers, CAF 4+, W2. Nice all rounder)

Castellax Battle-Automata Maniple (solid anti-infantry with four shots a piece, three of which are light AT, CAF +4). Plentiful in their set, Spesh if you do two rather than three to a base

Vanguard

Ursarax Cohort (CAF +3 and Jump Packs, pretty fast at 7”. Should be handy at clearing buildings)

Vorax Battle Automata Maniple (cheap, 7” move, lightly armoured. Lots of light shooting)

Vultarax Stratos Automata Maniple (Outflanking Skimmer which is nice, but can’t go on First Fire. Main gun has Neutron Flux and no other trait)

Bastion

Thanatar. Both flavours are a single slot. Quite tanky, basic weapon Ignores Cover and Demolisher. Goodbye buildings

Battle Tank

Karacnos Assault Tank Squadron

Krios Battle Tank Squadron (choice of Lightning Cannon or Irad-Scourer.

Krios Venator Squadron (12” range, Anti-Tank, solid hit roll and save modifier)

Transport

Triaros Armoured Conveyor (lots of light shooting)

Thats really good of you Doc. Cheers.

Thallax are probably my standout unit. They’re fairly cheap, ranging from 25 points to 85 points, min to max (2-8 bases)

They’re not great in combat being CAF +1, but with their three Light ST shots, all with -1 AP, they can’t half pour it on. Certainly I’d imagine a unit, hiding in a building, is going to be a pain in the butt for passing Titans hoping to keep their Void Shields intact.

Jump Packs will also help them leap frog tanks, to get that juicy save reduction, offsetting the Light of their AT.

Tech-Thralls do have their place. 60 points of 10 bases, slots allowing you can really clog things up with sheer bodies, even if those bodies mostly just stand around until someone shouts “boo”.

Also Morale -. I’d need to check me rules if that means they’re immune, or auto-fail.

Main army drawbacks?

Automata don’t have a free choice of Orders. This can be ignored with strategic Magos placement.

Automata are also “Walkers”. Despite being Armoured, this of course means every single one of my guns can shoot at them with at least some hope of success.