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Since its a little sanity prohibitive to build a titan maniple for Horus Heresy or 40k, I've been looking at buying some tiny House Vyridion Knights and Titan Legio Ignatum forces.

I noticed that rules exist for multiple systems, but the 'mechs aren't compatible (size wise) for every game.

Whats the best game for someone who isn't interested in infantry formations and just wants to play BattleTech: Games Workshop Edition?

Easy answer; get the Adeptus Titanicus starter set.

Titanicus, it's not even close.

It's the one game that's specifically done for what you're asking.

I also happen to think that Titanicus is an actually good game and that LImps is a step down from the two previous Epic editions, overburdened and overencumbered, but that doesn't really matter for what you ask.

For what you’re after, as the others have said? Adeptus Titanicus.

It’s closer to a naval game, as planning out your movement and positioning is incredibly important. There’s little point being a big, honking Titan if the little dudes are hiding out of sight or outside your fire arc.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

I noticed that rules exist for multiple systems, but the 'mechs aren't compatible (size wise) for every game.

Huh? But they are? Having Epic-scale models lets you play like ten different gamesystems with the same models.

Anyway, the answer here is trivially Titanicus. It is a genuinely great game to play, well-designed and thought out while offering a pretty wide array of choices at each step. If bipedal nuclear warships engaged in a deadly dance of maneuvers with constant decision-making about resource management and timing is your thing, AT is fantastic. LI titans, on the other hand, are decidedly meh. Which is fine for a combined arms game full of other unit types as well. But AT is not about that, it is about the rockstars of war and does that 100 % all day everyday.

I've read people say that Titandeath is better if you're doing massive games, as the amount of moving parts once you start getting beyond 2500 points of AT gets too much, but I've not tried Titandeath for myself yet.

For a standard game AT would definitely be the way to go.

The AT Tulebook from 2021 is the one I need, plus the Loyalist book?

Anything else?



Also I notice a lot of LI for sale, not much Titanicus models are they roughly the same scale or nowhere
close?

Only thing I will say for Legions Imperialis is that it's by far the better game for Knights. When using Knights in AT...

1) The starter set includes two supporting Cerastus Lancers, and that's really as far as you want to go with them...

2) If playing Knight Houses in AT, then run games of Knights vs Knights. Knight vs Titan games usually end in disappointment for both sides of the table...

3) Along with the Cerastus Lancers in the Starter set, the Castigators and Acherons kit will complete a full "Lance" which is the equivalent of a small titan maniple, or a single Warlord Titan.

4) Becareful of the armament of Questoris Knights if you intend to use them in Legions Imperialis, and if in doubt just arm them with one cannon and one melee weapon each, and leave the "nipple gun" off as the stubber does have rules, and limited to specific armaments in LI.

5) The Acastus Knights are the most controversial models in the game, with many frustrations - some that even broke the game at one point. It was addressed in an FAQ/Errata but still problems remain. I've written a homebrew titan maniple to work around their issues, and happy to repost it if you're interested.

6) Rules for running Knight forces are found in Campaign compendium book.

...I think I've covered the most important "gotchas" in the game, but fire away if you have other questions about Knights.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
The AT Tulebook from 2021 is the one I need, plus the Loyalist book?

Anything else?



Also I notice a lot of LI for sale, not much Titanicus models are they roughly the same scale or nowhere
close?

Not required for running a Loyalist maniple and getting down to matched-play business, but the Campaign book would be my first purchase. Campaigns, Knight houses, Alliegences and best of all, "create your own titan legion" rules.

The Titans and Knights in LI are the same models for AT. They come with terminals to use them in AT games, only difference for the models included in the AT starter set is slightly taller model bases.

Titanicus if you want micro management and play with about 3-5 Titans.

LI Titandeath if you want easier rules and/or field larger Titan Forces and/or play with Knight Households.

Are the Ordo Sinister (aka psychic titans) in either system.?

The Warlord one is, yes. At least it’s in Adeptus Titanicus as a Loyalist only choice.

Can’t recall if it also has LI rules.

It's in both systems. All Collegia Titanica Titans and the Ordo Sinister Psi-Titan rules are in the LI BRB.

Gah, fooled again. I'll figure out which one to buy first... some how.

OK, got another couple questions. Thought it would be easier to tack it on than creating another thread that's roughly the same question.


I'm planning on buying the Adeptus Titanicus Rulebook over the holidays and hunting down a couple of Titans to play with.

1. I am moving to a whole new area in March, and if they dont play AT, but they play Legio Imperiales, can I just play with Titanicus forces, ir will I need to expand into the little armored guys (I don't mean Knights) to play this game or can I just play with the Legio Titanicus by themselves?

2. What are some good sources for paint jobs outside of the super common Red + Hazard Stripes of the Fire Wasps and their ilk? (!as you can guess I dislike playing the well known groups or battles within the universe).

3. There appears to be two ways to base titans. One tall, the other not so. Why is this, and does it matter for gameplay?

Thank you for your time. This might allow me to put my 40k ideas on the back burner until the new knight codex is released next year.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
OK, got another couple questions. Thought it would be easier to tack it on than creating another thread that's roughly the same question.


I'm planning on buying the Adeptus Titanicus Rulebook over the holidays and hunting down a couple of Titans to play with.

1. I am moving to a whole new area in March, and if they dont play AT, but they play Legio Imperiales, can I just play with Titanicus forces, ir will I need to expand into the little armored guys (I don't mean Knights) to play this game or can I just play with the Legio Titanicus by themselves?

2. What are some good sources for paint jobs outside of the super common Red + Hazard Stripes of the Fire Wasps and their ilk? (!as you can guess I dislike playing the well known groups or battles within the universe).

3. There appears to be two ways to base titans. One tall, the other not so. Why is this, and does it matter for gameplay?

Thank you for your time. This might allow me to put my 40k ideas on the back burner until the new knight codex is released next year.

1 You can now play using just Titans, the Titan rules are in the BRB and the Collegia Titanica army list is in Rise if the Dark Mechanicum book. But if you don't want to buy the latter, all the Formations etc can be found in Legion builder:
https://legionbuilder.app/reference

You might not win many objective based games with Pure Titans, but you'll have fun.

2 Most Loyalist and Traitor Legio schemes found here
https://www.reddit.com/r/adeptustitanicus/comments/mqcx1r/color_schemes_of_the_titan_legions_and_knight/

3 It does not matter. LI was released with the lower/flatter urban bases which look better with infantry. It's just taste. Sure you will be slightly more visible but also see slightly better from LOS perspective on higher, but it's negligible. My armies are based on flat metal washers, low LI bases and higher AT bases respectively.

Enjoy!

When it comes to using Titans in both AT and LI, I'm pretty much in the same boat.

The Titans and Knights in the AT starter set will also provide a reasonable Titan force for LI, with the choice of 3 maniples. That said, I'll be investing in a box of allied infantry just to be on the safe side.

When you say allied infantry, you mean Marines? Besides a few cursory searches and some WD articles I'm not real knowledgeable about LI.

There is two different aspects at play here. If you want to play with 3-7 titans, titanicus is better. But its ruleset is slow as it is a simulator, so using more models then that is not advisable. If you want more then it is LI, but LI is an arcade game, and the lethality has been turned up and survivability turned down. It also has never recived any balance pass or erratas so it is in a bad state currently. (and into this fray they toss the admechs)

AT is fully developed as a game, has recived several balance updates, erratas and even compendiums and is also thus dropped by GW. There is nothing more to earn from AT for GW so they only fokus on LI now.
Just stay away from the knights in AT The devs was forced by GW bosses to add knights to the game, an element the game was not designed for. They just are plain bad and you cannot get it to work with them unless you houserule the shait out of them.

As admech has been added to the LI range as we type, one can now use an admech titan army in 3000p or less but it is a bad idea, you can play with it, but you will never win with it.Prior to the arrivial of admech the Titandeath mode was the only way to play only titans in LI. Minimum 6000p of titans per player, that is prolly 10-20 titans and knights per player, however in that setting using only titans works ok.

But as with everything, again the bosses over at GW stick they green noses into things. The option of playing only titans as admech in 3000p games was added simply cus GW is not selling enugh LI titans (i wonder why, when you have dropped the game they was ment for.....) and asking for a human to buy minimum 10 titans to play titandeath is not realistic in these heavy inflation based times.


So, supress the urge to play with more then 5 titans and knights, and buy everything you can for Titanicus. and avoid LI. AT has the best core ruleset to come from GW in the past 15 years. (just do not forget linebreaking tall terrain, without it, AT becomes a deployment zone shooting gallery and the game utterly fails, get those titans moving!)

I just like to add to what @FrozenDwarf says that in the real world there is nothing forcing you to play either exactly 3k pts of normal LI, or 6k Titandeath.

Titandeath at 2500-3500 is way more achievable, and affordable for most.

Likewise 1500-2500 is more common to play LI than 3000pts. 1500 LI is roughly equal in model count to the popular 3000 in EA30k. 3k LI is a slog and turns into a parking lot unless you have minimum a 6x4 table.

LI is more tactical with room to manouvre at 1500, and mixed armies are better balanced in the sense that a Titan doesn't get auto wiped in a single turn due to redundant large blobs of assaulting infantry or massed tank/flyer shooting. So it works better at that point level imo. And looks better too.

So I like 1500-2000 normal LI or 3000 Titandeath w a similar Titan count to AT, but way faster and a bit more casual of course.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
When you say allied infantry, you mean Marines? Besides a few cursory searches and some WD articles I'm not real knowledgeable about LI.

Correct, and alternatively a box of Solar Infantry if you prefer. Both are in the core book, so you don't have to go chasing additional books.

For example, I have a Reaver, 2 Hounds and 2 Cerastus Knights. For games of Legions Imperialis they'll be joined by a single box of "Solar Auxilia Infantry"...

https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/legions-imperialis-solar-auxilia-infantry-2023

So it's sounds to me (and correct me if I'm wrong), that AT is the superior game for playing with titans, but I can, but probably shouldn't, play all titans in Li.

This makes me pause. I just want to play something small and fun, that won't drive me insane with unwritten rules (BattleTech - )

I just wanted to build an play with the Ordo Sinister titan, after reading about him.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
So it's sounds to me (and correct me if I'm wrong), that AT is the superior game for playing with titans, but I can, but probably shouldn't, play all titans in Li.

This makes me pause. I just want to play something small and fun, that won't drive me insane with unwritten rules (BattleTech -

Spoiler:

where I couldn't play with what I wanted because my 'mechs were from the wrong era, so now they live on the shelf

)

I just wanted to build an play with the Ordo Sinister titan, after reading about him.

Why pause? LI with Titans is exactly what you say you want: small/fast, simple, FUN and with cool Titans. Without micro mgmt. Titanicus fans obviously talk trash about LI because they are opposites: streamlined vs deep. There's a place for both.

If you find someone else who want to play only Titans and thus play LI Titandeath it's even balanced.

The only reason not to do it would be if you expect to be able to play against infantry heavy LI armies only and care a lot about winning (anything in LI looses out to mass infantry point for point until we get an Errata).

Don't let strong opinions of forum people put you off. Go to a club and check out a game and judge for yourself.

And get that psi titan to paint regardless, it's awesome.

Everyone's life is more awesome with Ordo Sinister than without. And everyone wants to play with the guy that owns one.

OK, I'm sold.

Now for the dumb question, I was scouring Amazon for the rules, and could find the AT book on the cheap, but couldn't find the Li rules outside of the starter box.

Nor could I find the Ordo Sinister Psi Titan, is he just a head swap that comes in the regular box, or am I just not looking in all the right places?

Ordo Sinister titans are much more than a head swap. Theyre direct only forgeworld kits

chaos0xomega wrote:
Ordo Sinister titans are much more than a head swap. Theyre direct only forgeworld kits

OK. That helps. Off to ye Olde FW searches.

You can get the LI rulebook by itself on eBay for $20-30. If you are lucky and do find a group, you might even be able to get one for free. I passed my hard copy off to a buddy after I got the digital rules.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Ordo Sinister titans are much more than a head swap. Theyre direct only forgeworld kits

Not all that much though. Head, left arm and a carapace extension, that's it. It's not too much work to convert something similar, if one isn't married to the exact looks of the pretty tame FW version. There's plenty of explorative space with psychic titans for an intrepid hobbyist.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:

I'm planning on buying the Adeptus Titanicus Rulebook over the holidays and hunting down a couple of Titans to play with.

Rulebook is currently on sale, brand new $22: https://www.miniaturemarket.com/gw-400-39.html

Thank you

Ironically I think LI is better for the stompy bit, because when you have two opposing stompy robots, they balance out and don't stomp much.

But when you can have infantry and smaller vehicles, you get to really stomp out and feel like they're monstrous engines that will destroy everything.

So do you want to have a titan that can stomp on things, or a a robot that duels with other robots?