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Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

My initial thoughts would be to base them more on unit type.
One for Infantry, one for Mounted and Beasts, one for Monsters, and one for a mixture.

Issue is, that's about where my brain stopped. Anyone got ideas of mechanics to hang on these ideas, or better core concepts to use?

Edit: Unit lists for priorities.
Spoiler:
Infantry
Characters
Bloodmaster (Herald Of Khorne)
Changecaster (Herald Of Tzeentch)
Contorted Epitome (Fancy Herald Of Slaanesh)
Epidemius (Unique herald Of Nurgle)
Exalted Flamer
Infernal Enrapturess (Herald Of Slaanesh)
Poxbringer (Herald Of Nurgle)
Skulltaker (Unique Herald Of Khorne)
Sloppity Bilepiper (Herald Of Nurgle)
Spoilpox Scrivener (Herald Of Nurgle)
The Changeling (Unique)
Masque Of Slaanesh (Unique Herald Of Slaanesh)
Tranceweaver (Herald Of Slaanesh)

Battleline
Bloodletters
Blue Horrors
Daemonettes
Pink Horrors
Plaguebearers

Nurglings(? Swarms, not Infantry)

Other
Flamers

Mounted And Beasts
Characters
Fateskimmer (Herald Of Tzeentch)
Fluxmaster (Herald Of Tzeentch)
Horticulous Slimux (Unique Herald Of Nurgle)
Karanak (Unique Flesh Hound)
Rendmaster (Herald Of Khorne)
Skullmaster (Herald Of Khorne)
Blue Scribes (Unique)
Tormentbringer (Herald Of Slaanesh)

Other
Beasts Of Nurgle
Bloodcrushers
Burning Chariot
Exalted Seeker Chariot
Fiends Of Slaanesh
Flesh Hounds
Hellflayer
Plague Drones
Screamers
Seeker Chariot
Seekers
Skull Cannon

Monsters
Characters
Be'Lakor (Unique Prince)
Bloodthirster
Daemon Prince
Daemon Prince With Wings
Great Unclean One
Kairos Fateweaver (Unique Lord Of Change)
Keeper Of Secrets
Lord Of Change
Rotigus (Unique Great Unclean One)
Shalaxi Helbane (Unique Keeper Of Secrets)
Skarbrand (Unique Bloodthirster)
Syll'Esske (Unique Prince Of Slaanesh)

Other
Soul Grinder
Immediate issue-Nurgle has no characters outside an Epic Hero in Mounted/Beasts.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/11/19 02:56:43


Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






INFERNAL HIPPODRONE DETACHMENT
Unholy Stampede: Melee weapons of CAVALRY, BEAST and CHARIOT units are armed with gain the LANCE ability.

Add Stratagems that focus on doing things in excess, like overkilling things.

NEVERBORN LEGION DETACHMENT
Locus of Control: While a CHARACTER model is leading this unit increase the Leadership characteristic, Ballistic Skill and Weapon Skill of this unit by 1.

Add Stratagems that focus on enthralling and corrupting things and using infantry.

THOSE BEYOND COMPREHENSION
Tyrannical Power: Each time a LEGIONES DAEMONICA MONSTER model from your army makes an attack, add 1 to the Hit roll if that model’s unit is below its Starting Strength, and add 1 to the Wound roll as well if that model’s unit is Below Half-strength. In addition, while a LEGIONES DAEMONICA MONSTER unit from your army (excluding Battle-shocked units) is at its Starting Strength, add 2 to the Objective Control characteristic of models in that unit.

Add Stratagems that focus on Morale.

Daemonic Incursion works for everything.

The benefits of this kind of design is exploring a narrative idea of an army, but there is no real narrative behind this particular idea, it's just a fun "what if?" design challenge and it ensures that a few types of list at least get help, but if the cavalry one is weak and the infantry one is strong you've just cooked list diversity for Daemons (assuming these are the only detachments available).

The ones I posted in my Detachments thread weren't really god-focussed, even if each detachment borrowed its theme mostly from one of the gods, each was available for and suitable enough for every god and you could play infantry spam, cavalry spam or monster spam in any of them and have it be a different experience for each.

Some other things to explore would be pairs of gods, you have the enemy pairs KS and TN, the ally pairs KT, TN, TS, NS. The trifecta KTN, KTS, KNS, TNS. Focusing on the alliances and rivalries in the pantheon. The rules for these would pretty much write themselves. You could have various rivalries or games without focussing on a god. Wrestling, Archery, Long distance running, Gymnastics. Volleyball-

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2024/11/19 07:48:48


 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Just go generic terminology:

Horrors of the Empyrean: All enemy units within 6" of a unit from this army must take a battleshock test if they suffered one or more unsaved wound, regardless of the unit's size.


Warp Spawn - WS4+ S4 A3
Warp Beasts - M10" WS3+ S5 A2
Warp Brutes - WS3+ S5 A3 W3
Warp Masters - WS2+ S4 A5 W4
Warp Overlords WS2+ S8 A6 W12
Warp Carrion - Fly, M14"


A relatively generic daemons of horror and fear that swarm and tear.

   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest







This would be impossible in the new meta/balance issues of today's game....

But, I think it would be better if the army had summoners, who made leadership tests to summon the army, and could essentially gain the IG send in the next wave while the summoners are alive.

If they die the unit's they summoned have to make battle shock tests.

 BorderCountess wrote:
Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
Warhammer 40k Poetry(Updated Frequently)メカ
SamusDrake wrote:
If unpainted models are good enough for Zeus, then they're good enough for me.
 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

Hellebore wrote:Just go generic terminology:

Horrors of the Empyrean: All enemy units within 6" of a unit from this army must take a battleshock test if they suffered one or more unsaved wound, regardless of the unit's size.


Warp Spawn - WS4+ S4 A3
Warp Beasts - M10" WS3+ S5 A2
Warp Brutes - WS3+ S5 A3 W3
Warp Masters - WS2+ S4 A5 W4
Warp Overlords WS2+ S8 A6 W12
Warp Carrion - Fly, M14"


A relatively generic daemons of horror and fear that swarm and tear.


I want to use the existing datasheets.

Lathe Biosas wrote:This would be impossible in the new meta/balance issues of today's game....

But, I think it would be better if the army had summoners, who made leadership tests to summon the army, and could essentially gain the IG send in the next wave while the summoners are alive.

If they die the unit's they summoned have to make battle shock tests.


And I want to have an army that functions as an army, and doesn't NEED allies. Allies are cool-but shouldn't be required.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest







They would be leaders to the demons that you could attach.

 BorderCountess wrote:
Just because you're doing something right doesn't necessarily mean you know what you're doing...
Warhammer 40k Poetry(Updated Frequently)メカ
SamusDrake wrote:
If unpainted models are good enough for Zeus, then they're good enough for me.
 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





 JNAProductions wrote:
Hellebore wrote:Just go generic terminology:

Horrors of the Empyrean: All enemy units within 6" of a unit from this army must take a battleshock test if they suffered one or more unsaved wound, regardless of the unit's size.


Warp Spawn - WS4+ S4 A3
Warp Beasts - M10" WS3+ S5 A2
Warp Brutes - WS3+ S5 A3 W3
Warp Masters - WS2+ S4 A5 W4
Warp Overlords WS2+ S8 A6 W12
Warp Carrion - Fly, M14"


A relatively generic daemons of horror and fear that swarm and tear.


I want to use the existing datasheets.

Lathe Biosas wrote:This would be impossible in the new meta/balance issues of today's game....

But, I think it would be better if the army had summoners, who made leadership tests to summon the army, and could essentially gain the IG send in the next wave while the summoners are alive.

If they die the unit's they summoned have to make battle shock tests.


And I want to have an army that functions as an army, and doesn't NEED allies. Allies are cool-but shouldn't be required.



How do you create a non-god based detachment rule when all the demons are followers of specific gods? It's either mono god or polygod, it can't be godless?

   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 Hellebore wrote:
 JNAProductions wrote:
Hellebore wrote:Just go generic terminology:

Horrors of the Empyrean: All enemy units within 6" of a unit from this army must take a battleshock test if they suffered one or more unsaved wound, regardless of the unit's size.


Warp Spawn - WS4+ S4 A3
Warp Beasts - M10" WS3+ S5 A2
Warp Brutes - WS3+ S5 A3 W3
Warp Masters - WS2+ S4 A5 W4
Warp Overlords WS2+ S8 A6 W12
Warp Carrion - Fly, M14"


A relatively generic daemons of horror and fear that swarm and tear.


I want to use the existing datasheets.

Lathe Biosas wrote:This would be impossible in the new meta/balance issues of today's game....

But, I think it would be better if the army had summoners, who made leadership tests to summon the army, and could essentially gain the IG send in the next wave while the summoners are alive.

If they die the unit's they summoned have to make battle shock tests.


And I want to have an army that functions as an army, and doesn't NEED allies. Allies are cool-but shouldn't be required.



How do you create a non-god based detachment rule when all the demons are followers of specific gods? It's either mono god or polygod, it can't be godless?
By making detachments that don't favor one god over another.

Obviously your units are deity-aligned, but it's not "This is the Nurgle Detachment, that's the Slaanesh Detachment," so on and so forth.
Especially because if that DOES happen, then units of any given god are either liable to be OP in their detachment, UP outside it, or both.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Ok right I get you now.

doesn't the current index have a generic shadow of chaos rule that doesn't favour any god? What are you looking for?

   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 Hellebore wrote:
Ok right I get you now.

doesn't the current index have a generic shadow of chaos rule that doesn't favour any god? What are you looking for?
Detachments.
Like how Marines have Gladius and Ironstorm and Vanguard.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





I meant the warp rift detachment, which is generic.

I suppose you'd have to decide what the theme is.

If you're after infantry, you could go the Warptide demon horde and just make it a cavalcade of infantry pouring out of the shadow of chaos. Maybe give infantry endless return rule?


If you're after beasts, it could be the Hunt of the Damned, where beast units get bonuses for taking down units with the monster or character keyword?

   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 Hellebore wrote:
I meant the warp rift detachment, which is generic.

I suppose you'd have to decide what the theme is.

If you're after infantry, you could go the Warptide demon horde and just make it a cavalcade of infantry pouring out of the shadow of chaos. Maybe give infantry endless return rule?


If you're after beasts, it could be the Hunt of the Damned, where beast units get bonuses for taking down units with the monster or character keyword?
For respawning Infantry, I could see it as a once-per-game or once-per-unit Stratagem, but not a general rule. Daemon units aren't too shabby, so just getting them back for free would be too good.

For bonuses vs. Monsters and Characters, I think that'd be more important on the Infantry detachment. They have less high-Strength and such weapons to deal with high Toughness models.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I'm late to the discussion! Kept meaning to share some thoughts, but it has been a busy week.

I think rather than trying to tie detachments to specific units, the goal should be to represent different army themes/stories.

So stealing some ideas from the other thread, maybe something like:

Corrupt Landscape:
* Represents the idea of fighting in a thoroughly chaos-infused setting where the terrain itself is working against you.
* Central mechanic involves corrupting more of the table over time.
* Corrupt terrain offers benefits to daemons and can be targeted by strats to damage enemies, heal daemons, maybe even move the terrain around.

Warp Storm Vanguard:
* There's a warp storm in progress.
* Roll dice at the start of the battleround. The results correspond to different special effects you can trigger. I.e. 1-2 = spend the die to move a unit X more inches during the Movement phase (teleport/reality flicker). 3-4, spend the die to boost a unit's invuln saves until the end of the turn. 5-6, spend the die to
buff your offense.
* Strats let you generate more dice or generally represent "glitch" effects like suddenly not being in melee with the enemy at the start of the fight phase or possibly an orbital bombardment type effect.

The Bedlam Harvest:
* To maintian their presence in reality and/or fuel their boss's dark designs, the daemons are doing their best to maximize fear and suffering.
* Detachment rule: enemy units provide an aura buff *to your army* when they're below half strength. So being in pain and freaked out about your dead friends actively empowers the daemons near you and encourages them to keep you around a little longer.
* Strat(?) to heal when an enemy fails a battleshock test nearby.
* Strats to force battleshock tests and apply more severe consequences for failing said test. I.e. no falling back, or must fall back or no shooting.
* Generally probably ought to play similarly to a Vanguard tyranid army leaning into their battleshock gimmicks.
* Obviously comes with the usual challenges of battleshock being unreliable.

Dark Champions:
* The "here is my big guy, look how cool he is," detachment.
* Detachment rule that makes monstrous creatures and character units harder to hit (wound?) if there's an allied unit within 6" and closer to the attacker. (Screening for your boss monsters and plot armor characters.)
* Strats to "eat" non-monsters and heal/empower the big daemons/characters.
* Strats to simply make your monsters hit harder. Not normally a fan of kill-more-better rules, but the whole idea of this detachment is to make your greater daemon *feel* like a greater daemon.
* Possibly have this detachments buffs get better if you only have a single monstrous creature on the table? Serves as a rubber band mechanic, but also encourages you to make your big daemon *feel* like a big, special, important guy instead of just turning this into Crusher Stampede: daemon edition.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






 Wyldhunt wrote:
The Bedlam Harvest:

All of this was great, but I love the Monster's Inc detachment the most
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

Spoiler:
 Wyldhunt wrote:
I'm late to the discussion! Kept meaning to share some thoughts, but it has been a busy week.

I think rather than trying to tie detachments to specific units, the goal should be to represent different army themes/stories.

So stealing some ideas from the other thread, maybe something like:

Corrupt Landscape:
* Represents the idea of fighting in a thoroughly chaos-infused setting where the terrain itself is working against you.
* Central mechanic involves corrupting more of the table over time.
* Corrupt terrain offers benefits to daemons and can be targeted by strats to damage enemies, heal daemons, maybe even move the terrain around.

Warp Storm Vanguard:
* There's a warp storm in progress.
* Roll dice at the start of the battleround. The results correspond to different special effects you can trigger. I.e. 1-2 = spend the die to move a unit X more inches during the Movement phase (teleport/reality flicker). 3-4, spend the die to boost a unit's invuln saves until the end of the turn. 5-6, spend the die to
buff your offense.
* Strats let you generate more dice or generally represent "glitch" effects like suddenly not being in melee with the enemy at the start of the fight phase or possibly an orbital bombardment type effect.

The Bedlam Harvest:
* To maintian their presence in reality and/or fuel their boss's dark designs, the daemons are doing their best to maximize fear and suffering.
* Detachment rule: enemy units provide an aura buff *to your army* when they're below half strength. So being in pain and freaked out about your dead friends actively empowers the daemons near you and encourages them to keep you around a little longer.
* Strat(?) to heal when an enemy fails a battleshock test nearby.
* Strats to force battleshock tests and apply more severe consequences for failing said test. I.e. no falling back, or must fall back or no shooting.
* Generally probably ought to play similarly to a Vanguard tyranid army leaning into their battleshock gimmicks.
* Obviously comes with the usual challenges of battleshock being unreliable.

Dark Champions:
* The "here is my big guy, look how cool he is," detachment.
* Detachment rule that makes monstrous creatures and character units harder to hit (wound?) if there's an allied unit within 6" and closer to the attacker. (Screening for your boss monsters and plot armor characters.)
* Strats to "eat" non-monsters and heal/empower the big daemons/characters.
* Strats to simply make your monsters hit harder. Not normally a fan of kill-more-better rules, but the whole idea of this detachment is to make your greater daemon *feel* like a greater daemon.
* Possibly have this detachments buffs get better if you only have a single monstrous creature on the table? Serves as a rubber band mechanic, but also encourages you to make your big daemon *feel* like a big, special, important guy instead of just turning this into Crusher Stampede: daemon edition.


Corrupt Landscape is cool! But it also seems similar to the existing Shadow of Chaos. I'd prefer to avoid overlapping mechanics.

Warp Storm Vanguard I like. No notes on concept.

Bedlam Harvest is also pretty neat, though as mentioned by you, Battleshock isn't super reliable.

Dark Champions has a potential exploit-GUOs have a Doomsday Bell. It resurrects Plaguebearers based on models killed, so if you sac a Plaguebearer to empower the Bell, you could net extra Bearers out of the exchange.
This doesn't HAVE to be a problem, but it's a thing to note.

Warp Storm Vanguard
At the start of each battle round, roll a number of dice equal to the round number plus one. (So, two dice round one; three dice round two; all the way to six dice round five.) These are your Storm Dice, which can be discarded for effects. You can hold dice between battle rounds, but you can never have more than six Storm Dice at any given moment.

Once per phase, you may spend dice with the indicated results on one of the following abilities. You may not use the same die roll more than once per turn, and the abilities do not stack on the same unit.

1-Pick a friendly Legiones Daemonica unit. That unit may immediately move up to their movement speed, ignoring enemy models and terrain while doing so. (They must still be set up in a location that they can be set up in.) If that unit is in Engagement Range of an enemy unit, instead make a move of 1d6 inches. You may leave Engagement Range without penalty using this move.

2-Pick a friendly Legiones Daemonica unit and one weapon type equipped by that unit. Increase the Strength or AP characteristic of that weapon by 1 until the end of the turn. If the selected unit is a MONSTER or VEHICLE, you may instead increase the Damage characteristic by 1.

3-Pick a friendly Legiones Daemonic unit. That unit can either improve their Invulnerable save by one point, to a maximum of 4+, or reroll save rolls of 1 until the end of the turn.

4-Pick an enemy unit within your Shadow of Chaos or within 6" of a friendly Legiones Daemonica unit. That unit must immediately take a Battleshock test.

5-Pick a friendly Legiones Daemonica unit and increase their OC characteristic by 1 until the end of the turn. This may not be used on a unit that has an OC of 0.

6-Use any of the above abilities.

Spoiler:
You can get two uses of any one ability, if you roll both it and a 6. But you can't double up to make D5 Hellforged Weapons on a Prince, for example.


Enhancements
Master Of The Storm
Legiones Daemonica CHARACTER model only. When rolling for for your Storm Dice, you may either reroll any number of dice at the start of the battle round, or roll one extra die. Choose after making your initial roll.

Generous Benefactor
Legiones Daemonica MONSTER CHARACTER model only. When this unit is targeted for an ability using a Storm Die, you may use the same ability on a friendly Legiones Daemonic INFANTRY unit within 6".

Empowered By The Warp
Legiones Daemonica CHARACTER model only. When this unit is affected by an ability using a Storm Die, improve the Strength and AP characteristics of the bearer's melee weapons by 2.

Locus Of Power
Legiones Daemonica CHARACTER model only. Once per game, when rolling for your Storm Dice at the start of the battle round, you may use this enhancement. If you do, then whenever you use a given Storm Die for the first time this round, reroll it instead of discarding it. If the bearer of this enhancement is a MONSTER model, you may instead use this ability twice per game.

Stratagems
Corrupt Realspace
From the current detachment. It's good, no need to get shmaltzy with it.

Power Of The Warp Storm-1 CP
When: Any Phase, when you use a Storm ability
Target: The Legiones Daemonica unit that was targeted for the ability.
Effect: Roll a d6, and apply the effect indicated as an additional Storm ability.
Spoiler:
Note: If you choose, say, the 5 ability to increase OC and roll a 5... Tough tuckus, you get nothing extra.


Solidifying Power-2 CP
When: Start of the battle round, when rolling for Storm Dice
Target: N/A
Effect: You may roll up to two extra dice for your Storm Dice pool.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Still working in progress. But I like this start-thoughts for y'all?

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Yeah, I like the look of those, JNA. Seems like a solid point to build off of.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
 
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