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Hive Fleet Zeitgeist

Good point - adding more variety in terms of tanks, vehicles, infantry, etc. to AT would mess it up, and as already pointed out, it wouldn't be AT anymore anyway.

Releasing a new Epic would help out in this regard, but we're probably more than a few years away from that happening.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/03 04:21:56


 
   
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Going forward, I can see either just a tank game or a combined arms with knights, tanks and flyers. If keeping with the Heresy era then the later would be simple to produce and provide a good follow up to AT.

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SamusDrake wrote:
Going forward, I can see either just a tank game or a combined arms with knights, tanks and flyers. If keeping with the Heresy era then the later would be simple to produce and provide a good follow up to AT.


That sounds slightly bizarre. I'll bet one million pounds that we don't see a game with just tanks, Knights and fliers or tanks only.
   
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JWBS wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
Going forward, I can see either just a tank game or a combined arms with knights, tanks and flyers. If keeping with the Heresy era then the later would be simple to produce and provide a good follow up to AT.


That sounds slightly bizarre. I'll bet one million pounds that we don't see a game with just tanks, Knights and fliers or tanks only.


Especially in small scale, that would be extremely weird considering how deeply enmeshed tanks and infantry are. Making small tanks without small infantry would be odd to say the least.


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 Sherrypie wrote:
JWBS wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
Going forward, I can see either just a tank game or a combined arms with knights, tanks and flyers. If keeping with the Heresy era then the later would be simple to produce and provide a good follow up to AT.


That sounds slightly bizarre. I'll bet one million pounds that we don't see a game with just tanks, Knights and fliers or tanks only.


Especially in small scale, that would be extremely weird considering how deeply enmeshed tanks and infantry are. Making small tanks without small infantry would be odd to say the least.



Could be a take on Tallarn?

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Tallarn would be the obvious setting for something tank focused during the HH.

On one hand I would be worried about tanks "diluting" the AT experience away from the Titans and more towards an Epic style mass battle game. But on the other hand Knights are already a thing, and I imagine tanks would fill a similar role in the game. Either way if the models were as good as the rest of the AT and AI range I'm sure I'd learn to live with them

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/03 11:56:41


 
   
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I could see Super-Heavy Tanks making an appearance, since the scale of them isn't far off Knights (they're shorter obviously but the width balances it out). Smaller tanks that than though? I'd be doubtful.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/03 12:28:45


 
   
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My fear is that Tanks would take some of the challenge out of the game.

I mean, they’re a good match for Warlord heavy forces, as they can strip shields.

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I can't see tanks appearing in AT. I think that tanks are very much a sign of the game shifting toward epic because once you start introducing tanks you're a stones throw to anti-tank tanks then infantry and then BAM you're into Epic.


When you hear the designers in interviews you can see that they are totally against the idea of letting AT evolve into Epic; they are keeping AT very much for the titans alone. Plus we don't even have one Xenos titan yet. WE are years from Epic making a return. I think that the groundwork is being done and the system is set to allow for an easier return of Epic, but we are far from it appearing as yet.

   
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The thing is that the AT game system was explicitly designed to accommodate tanks and infantry - the only thing stopping them is that they don’t want to.
Yet.
So I can understand people wanting to scratch that itch; since the void exists the urge to fill it is naturally great.

However there remain other voids to fill and I for one would rather see Xenos Titan-equivalents before tanks happen.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/03 15:33:27


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JWBS wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:
Going forward, I can see either just a tank game or a combined arms with knights, tanks and flyers. If keeping with the Heresy era then the later would be simple to produce and provide a good follow up to AT.


That sounds slightly bizarre. I'll bet one million pounds that we don't see a game with just tanks, Knights and fliers or tanks only.


Careful now, I won that bet with Aeronautica last year!

But seriously, we shall see. Its going to be a while before they return to full-on Epic 40K, and are already testing the waters with AT and AI, which focus on titans and aircraft respectively. If these are warm-ups for an Epic 40K revival then heavy tanks are the last stop before infantry and minor vehicles. It could be that GW wants to introduce an Epic-scale game every August, until they get to Epic 40K itself...or maybe its just coincidence that AT and AI were released in August of their respective years...

The other obvious option is that Knights could have their own game, basically a slim version of AT providing only the rules and components required for Knight battles. It might be at this point where GW incorporates imperial-based tanks and fliers so that it provides more depth to the games. Afterall, Titan players in AT have complained that Knight rules are too simple. The problem with Adeptus Titanicus is that we all just see it as the potential for Epic 40K and are eager to have new units and factions incorporated until it becomes Epic 40K. GW may wish to preserve AT as strictly a game of Titan combat in the Heresy era. Knights, tanks and fliers would meet customers half way without resorting to Epic 40K.

An AT-scale version of Imperial Knights: Renegade seems like a quick win for GW, much like Lost Patrol or Gangs of Commoragh.

Lastly, AoS players might be asking "where's our epic-scale game?". As with Epic 40K, Warmaster seems unlikely but with the forthcoming "The Old World" being AoS's equivilent of The Horus Heresy then maybe Man-O-War might be an option for a low-model range alternative - much like AT is for the HH.

In conclusion, its harder to predict where GW is going with its Epic-scale games than it was last year with Aeronautica. They may decide for this year and the next, due to the current tragic virus situation, to postpone any such plans and focus on 40K and AoS.

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SamusDrake wrote:

But seriously, we shall see. Its going to be a while before they return to full-on Epic 40K, and are already testing the waters with AT and AI, which focus on titans and aircraft respectively. If these are warm-ups for an Epic 40K revival then heavy tanks are the last stop before infantry and minor vehicles. It could be that GW wants to introduce an Epic-scale game every August, until they get to Epic 40K itself...or maybe its just coincidence that AT and AI were released in August of their respective years...


I would expect that it's a coincidence. AT was very much a gamble, and its success caught GW flat-footed. It's easy to see it as a successful thing now. But at the time, it was a risk. AI made sense as a release not necessarily as an AT add-on (though it does provide that option in the future), but as a game that competes with the various aircraft/spacecraft games that have been popular over the last several years.

Tank-exclusive games are not a particularly hot niche at this time. So I expect that GW and FW did not have plans for a tank-focused AT-scale game this August even before Wuhan suffered an unfortunate outbreak.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/03 17:22:13


 
   
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The last thing I want to see added to AT right now would be tanks. There is so much more to do with Titans, let's not ruin it.

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While this seems to be diverging wildly from news or rumors...

As Ordinatus are somewhat analogous to Titans, and as Superheavies are analogous to Knights, I could see those entering the fray at some point, but not other Epic units.

Anyone know what happened to the FW train miniature they showed way back at the beginning?
   
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Was it not a one-off scratch-build for a table that they were “looking into” producing? I don’t think it’s ever left that status officially…

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Eumerin wrote:


I would expect that it's a coincidence. AT was very much a gamble, and its success caught GW flat-footed. It's easy to see it as a successful thing now. But at the time, it was a risk.


Agreed. AT was definitely the test bed for future Epic releases. Although most of 2019 was a frustraiting time the launch in late 2018 was quite lively.

We wanted our titans!

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 Mr_Rose wrote:
The thing is that the AT game system was explicitly designed to accommodate tanks and infantry


Based on what? It would obvously be terrible. Runing titans is too micro-managery to also have to worry about dozens of other game elements that behave totally differently.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/03 18:40:10


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Eumerin wrote:


Tank-exclusive games are not a particularly hot niche at this time. So I expect that GW and FW did not have plans for a tank-focused AT-scale game this August even before Wuhan suffered an unfortunate outbreak.


Thats a good point. With Aeronautica there was the case for X-Wing and other dogfight games, which was a point I made at the time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
The thing is that the AT game system was explicitly designed to accommodate tanks and infantry


Based on what? It would obvously be terrible. Runing titans is too micro-managery to also have to worry about dozens of other game elements that behave totally differently.


Probably based on the original game eventually expanding into Space Marine, Titan Legions and Epic 40K. That might not be the case with the modern AT, as it could be kept as a Titans'n'Knights game and to preserve its Heresy era setting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/03 18:50:45


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They said earlier, shortly after they announced the Work on AT, that they choose 8mm because they could downscale the Space Marine Power Armour Types to easily recognizedand made individual.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/03 19:00:43


 
   
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RazorEdge wrote:
They said earlier, shortly after they announced the Work on AT, that they choose 8mm because they could downscale the Space Marine Power Armour Types to easily recognizedand made individual.


6mm. Space marines would be 8mm as per designers. But thing is Xmm term in scales is used to refer to HUMAN size and last time I checked space marines are universally and consistently described as TALLER than humans.

If AT is 8mm scale and space marines are 8mm(which we know they would be since GW said so) then that would mean GW just did HUGE retcon changing height of space marines to standard human size. Actually smaller seeing power armour adds height so space marines unarmoured would be shorter than humans...

(oh and nevermind actual measurement of titans show they are tad under 1:300. That's 6mm scale. 8mm would be around 1:225). But hey who cares about such boring stuff as actually mearing model height and comparing fluff size Or designers saying SPACE MARINES would be 8mm.

AT is true scale 6mm.

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tneva82 wrote:
AT is true scale 6mm.


What about AI? I'm asking for realz because I'd like to print some terrain or even AT scaled tanks and I've no idea how to scale properly for AT, AI and future compatibility.

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AT and AI are both the same scale

   
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SamusDrake wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
The thing is that the AT game system was explicitly designed to accommodate tanks and infantry


Based on what? It would obvously be terrible. Runing titans is too micro-managery to also have to worry about dozens of other game elements that behave totally differently.


Probably based on the original game eventually expanding into Space Marine, Titan Legions and Epic 40K. That might not be the case with the modern AT, as it could be kept as a Titans'n'Knights game and to preserve its Heresy era setting.

No. Based on interviews with the lead rules designer where he explicitly says he designed it with eventual expansion to full combined arms warfare in mind. Oh and the fact that the gap at the bottom of the Scale chart is quite obvious while we have established weapon characteristics for such things as individual infantry-scale lascannon and autocannon already.

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 Mr_Rose wrote:
SamusDrake wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Mr_Rose wrote:
The thing is that the AT game system was explicitly designed to accommodate tanks and infantry


Based on what? It would obvously be terrible. Runing titans is too micro-managery to also have to worry about dozens of other game elements that behave totally differently.


Probably based on the original game eventually expanding into Space Marine, Titan Legions and Epic 40K. That might not be the case with the modern AT, as it could be kept as a Titans'n'Knights game and to preserve its Heresy era setting.

No. Based on interviews with the lead rules designer where he explicitly says he designed it with eventual expansion to full combined arms warfare in mind. Oh and the fact that the gap at the bottom of the Scale chart is quite obvious while we have established weapon characteristics for such things as individual infantry-scale lascannon and autocannon already.


Is that the gentleman who left the company?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
AT is true scale 6mm.


What about AI? I'm asking for realz because I'd like to print some terrain or even AT scaled tanks and I've no idea how to scale properly for AT, AI and future compatibility.


Official word from ForgeWorld - via email - is that the designers do not adhere to any "scale" when designing their models. In their words its "Titanicus scale".

That said, the old epic models such as the Rhino and space marines look great on a Warlord's base. Just go with those.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/03 20:47:37


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Ah we are back to discussing the scale of AT and wishing for Epic again, awesome.

There is another GW preview this month correct? Hopefully we see something shown off then, I'm hoping we see some brand new Titans or maybe some of the really weird weapons that were available in the old days!

   
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It's becasue many of us want Epic back, others not.
   
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RazorEdge wrote:
It's becasue many of us want Epic back, others not.


I'm fine w both.


as much as I want epic back, I'm happy w Titanicus remaining titans only.

as long as they don't take design space away from AT they can pretty much do whatever they want in "8mm" scale.
   
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Ordinatus would be cool, either as a set of resin kits or a plastic kit with some resin weapon options. A bit of a redesign of the minoris and it could share a mount with the warbringer, add the volcano cannon and hopefully the sonic disruptor.
   
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Yes, it would be nice if they showcased a new titan on the next preview. The Warbringer has certainly shaken things up but something to complement the Warhound would be ideal.

I wonder if they will show us those Magaera knights, as they are on the cover of the Defense of Ryza...

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Thing is we’ve had articles about using them in game which typically happen after a preview so I’m not sure what’s up with them right now.

If we do get a totally new Titan preview, what’s more likely, the hinted-at light scout precursor to the Slaaneshi titans of old epic, the missing Acastus variant, or something totally unprecedented like the non-Nemesis Warbringer variant that is implied by the existence of the Nemesis-type in the first place?

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