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 Insectum7 wrote:
Tyranid Warriors with Ranged weapons became better Ultramarines, being able to Fall Back, then Fire and Charge.

OG Tyranid Prime is gone. We just have the winged one.

Not to worry too much, it’s now listed as a unit upgrade model.

 Twinoni wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Tyranid Warriors with Ranged weapons became better Ultramarines, being able to Fall Back, then Fire and Charge.

OG Tyranid Prime is gone. We just have the winged one.

Not to worry too much, it’s now listed as a unit upgrade model.

It's not an upgrade apparently, it's an obligatory Sergeant. The datasheet is further confusing by giving stats for "Tyranid Warriors" but not "Tyranid Prime". If the assumption is that the Tyranid Prime just has the stats of the Warriors, there's additional confusion from the Winged Prime having its own stats.

The logic of it all is pretty awkward.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Twinoni wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Tyranid Warriors with Ranged weapons became better Ultramarines, being able to Fall Back, then Fire and Charge.

OG Tyranid Prime is gone. We just have the winged one.

Not to worry too much, it’s now listed as a unit upgrade model.

It's not an upgrade apparently, it's an obligatory Sergeant. The datasheet is further confusing by giving stats for "Tyranid Warriors" but not "Tyranid Prime". If the assumption is that the Tyranid Prime just has the stats of the Warriors, there's additional confusion from the Winged Prime having its own stats.

The logic of it all is pretty awkward.

You logically just become so much stronger with the wings and get D2 Claws of course.

Biasn wrote:
So how many times can i use a stratagem per turn if i have 3 winged hive tyrants? 2 times or 4 times?

Two. The Winged Hive Tyrant's ability says, "Once per turn, one friendly Tyranids unit within 12" of one or more models with this ability..."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tsagualsa wrote:

Domandi wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Can anyone figure the order in which these datasheets appear? Seems to be vaguely in battlefield role order, but is that even still a meaningful concept?

Given role isn't a thing any more, you'd've thought they might've just gone in alphabetical order to make it easier to find things - and included a flaming table of contents on the PDF...

Its meant to be printed out and used as physical game aids, not as a PDF

Doing a table of contents literally costs you nothing and is just good design; people don't need to print it, and it helps if you use the pdf.

Gonna be a little pedantic and say it costs something. It would take extra time to track/order the data slates and make the actual table of contents. That time costs money.

Effectively every editing software under the sun can do that automatically nowadays, you do not need to invest extra time for it. Same goes for creating an Index. The time cost is close to rounding to zero.

A table of contents is kinda useless if the pages aren't numbered.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
A table of contents is kinda useless if the pages aren't numbered.

It is useful in a digital document because usually each line in the table of contents is also a hyperlink which takes you straight to the page you want.

ERJAK wrote:


GW's main website has ALWAYS been the absolute worst place to buy big releases. They run out of stock in minutes, it's full retail, the interface is wonky.

As someone who has recently moved to a place where the only stores sell full retail anyway, not paying taxes on the GW webstore for Direct Only items means it's the best option for a lot of models.

 Platuan4th wrote:

ERJAK wrote:


GW's main website has ALWAYS been the absolute worst place to buy big releases. They run out of stock in minutes, it's full retail, the interface is wonky.

As someone who has recently moved to a place where the only stores sell full retail anyway, not paying taxes on the GW webstore for Direct Only items means it's the best option for a lot of models.

I wasn't aware their direct only items were big releases. Seems contradictory if you ask me.

 Overread wrote:
Also lictor image is the same model :( Unless GW is super teasing us?

They're not going to preview a new mini on a card like this before an official reveal.

Tyranids just have to win the global campaign and maybe we'll see new Hormagaunts/Lictors/Biovores/Pyrovores/Genestealers finally.

ERJAK wrote:
I have never once had any difficulty getting any of the big GW box sets and have no idea what part of Siberia you people live in that you do.

"It's never impacted me, so I can't see at all how anyone else would be any different."

I mean that's an interesting spin on "Don't care, got mine".

Tomorrow’s release of information will probably dictate how enthusiastic I will be for this edition. If the marine data sheets don’t inspire and feel too gimmicky, this will probably also be just a side game for me (will play with friends but probably not invest much time or effort into it).
It could also be a case of lay low until next year to see how things develop. Who knows how much the codexes will influence the state of the game

 bullyboy wrote:
Tomorrow’s release of information will probably dictate how enthusiastic I will be for this edition. If the marine data sheets don’t inspire and feel too gimmicky, this will probably also be just a side game for me (will play with friends but probably not invest much time or effort into it).
It could also be a case of lay low until next year to see how things develop. Who knows how much the codexes will influence the state of the game

Sorta in the same boat. It's gonna be dependent on how 1st Company units are handled, 100%

 bullyboy wrote:
Tomorrow’s release of information will probably dictate how enthusiastic I will be for this edition. If the marine data sheets don’t inspire and feel too gimmicky, this will probably also be just a side game for me (will play with friends but probably not invest much time or effort into it).
It could also be a case of lay low until next year to see how things develop. Who knows how much the codexes will influence the state of the game

Yea marines should definitely showcase a wide scope of rules, but it will still be sketchy without points.

I'm very curious to know what Grav weapons do in 10th. I mean, we could know if Combi-Grav was still a thing, but yeah, it will be nice to see them (especially as I'll soon have a Land Raider Excelsior to test out! ).

Also I just noticed the last thing on the release schedule is Crusade rules. I take it these will be basic get-you-by Crusade Rules for each faction, or will they just be the the actual basic Crusade rules?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm very curious to know what Grav weapons do in 10th.

Same. Grav Cannons have been a no-brainer for a while, in combination with Multimeltas for 9th. I would expect they take a hit.

I just hope not as big a hit as Gant Devourers in 9th, wtf.

ERJAK wrote:
Deliberately pushing traffic to the GW Webstore when they almost always sell out in seconds anyway is like buying TV ads for a concert that sold out months ago

to make it easier for you
every item sold via the GW online store is more profit for GW, and if item sell out online in minutes, but a physical store is not able to sell anything at all, not sending anything to store and selling them via their own shop is the easy solution to the problem

so no, this is not like having TV ads for a concert that sells out, but having a concert that sold out online, but still has empty seats because 1000s of tickets got not sold in the physical stores which went unnoticed until the concert was over

there are still shops having Cursed City sitting on the shelf, this is lost money for GW.
GW does not lose money with the maybe I would have bought it if it was available (this is a maybe if we produced more we would have sold more, and "lost", but with items that are not selling at all because they are sitting in a store waiting for someone to walk by and no one is interested in once the pre-order hype is over

it is the easiest solution, GW online shop sells out in seconds but the physical store is not => don't ship any item to the physical store and sell everything online
and in addition the profit margin is higher, win-win situation for GW

My guess will be devastating wounds with perhaps an anti vehicle 4+ rule.

They've been doing (relatively) well to separate the heavy weapons into distinct niches.

Perhaps grav and haywire will take on similar roles.

I still miss the "wound based on the save value of the target" version of grav.

I wonder if they will use QueIt this time round.. previously, you could almost guarantee a purchase as long as you signed on to your account 10 minutes before preorders start, and refreshed either via search or the preorders page, the box would show up 5 minutes before preorders were officially supposed to start.. You had usually 2-3 minutes to buy. Not an impossible task by any means. But if they go to QueIt this time, all bets are off.. even then, better to show up early and login

Remember, these are discount launch boxes, GW expects the majority of people to miss out on them. Maybe they will go Indomitus if you complain loudly enough (a second MTO run coming later)?

If you remaining invested in the hobby is dependent on not missing out on limited quantity items, while still probably having piles of shame in your collection, maybe you just want an excuse to stop. That's ok too!

I'm going to be playing 10th edition even if I don't buy a single item from GW.. I already got plenty of models and terrain, and they are giving all the rules, datasheets, crusade rules and points for free.. I don't need to spend a dime more, and if you've been playing 40K until now, you probably wont either. Think about it..

 Daedalus81 wrote:

angel of death 007 wrote:
Is anyone else on the Leviathan or bust, boat. I feel after missing the last several Kill Team boxes, plague marine heroes etc, that this is my last straw with GW. If they fail the Leviathan box release, I’m done with GW.

Why should I have to fight to maybe get a copy when I can order a great game like Shatterpoint months ahead, no shinnigans and get it delivered to my door on release. I am getting sick of GW business tactics and I think brick and mortar stores are too. I have never seen my LGS with so much blank GW shelf space. I think they are ordering less as they have not been able to get the last several releases.

This is it for me, finding it really hard to support a company who does what they want with no regard to their customers or dedidcated LGS that sell their products.

Do you think GW wants bare shelves?

They can't conjure more boxes from thin air. It's quite difficult to run manufacturing in the UK as opposed to hiring whatever multitude of companies there are in China to make stuff. Go enjoy Shatterpoint if missing out on a box causes you so much grief.

Plan on enjoyiing Shatterpoint, can't wait til Atomic Mass takes GW off their mountain. As far as GW goes, they are creating the issues or shortages to drive up prices and create more profit. People have to order from them direct so instead of making 50% profit they make 100% on every box. Problem is they are going to lose the retailers who sell their product. Under production and maximizing profit is good, but leaving money on the table is not an effective business tactic. They piss off enough vendors they will simply bring in products they can reliably get from other companies. GW are hardly the only player in the game anymore.

Funny thing is GW will be the one who dethrones themselves through their shotty business tactics.

I think that the studio lead times and the actual production lead times are worlds apart and GW has not been able to sort that out which will make the problem a lot bigger.

So the creative guys are churning out assets, sculpting and rules and artwork at a huge pace, thats why you see so much released but the Production sites are not keeping up with that. 40k editions last 3 years cycles now and I can bet the ordinary collector still struggling to finish up previous edition box set... yet the churn keeps on increasing by the month. No one is keeping up with that not even GW production.

Last few months been specially bad.

 NAVARRO wrote:
I think that the studio lead times and the actual production lead times are worlds apart and GW has not been able to sort that out which will make the problem a lot bigger.

So the creative guys are churning out assets, sculpting and rules and artwork at a huge pace, thats why you see so much released but the Production sites are not keeping up with that. 40k editions last 3 years cycles now and I can bet the ordinary collector still struggling to finish up previous edition box set... yet the churn keeps on increasing by the month. No one is keeping up with that not even GW production.

Last few months been specially bad.

To add to this the amount of people I've seen on socials saying stuff like "Just finished/starting painting my Indomitus marines in time for Leviathan and 10th" has been interesting to watch unfold.

angel of death 007 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

angel of death 007 wrote:
Is anyone else on the Leviathan or bust, boat. I feel after missing the last several Kill Team boxes, plague marine heroes etc, that this is my last straw with GW. If they fail the Leviathan box release, I’m done with GW.

Why should I have to fight to maybe get a copy when I can order a great game like Shatterpoint months ahead, no shinnigans and get it delivered to my door on release. I am getting sick of GW business tactics and I think brick and mortar stores are too. I have never seen my LGS with so much blank GW shelf space. I think they are ordering less as they have not been able to get the last several releases.

This is it for me, finding it really hard to support a company who does what they want with no regard to their customers or dedidcated LGS that sell their products.

Do you think GW wants bare shelves?

They can't conjure more boxes from thin air. It's quite difficult to run manufacturing in the UK as opposed to hiring whatever multitude of companies there are in China to make stuff. Go enjoy Shatterpoint if missing out on a box causes you so much grief.

Plan on enjoyiing Shatterpoint, can't wait til Atomic Mass takes GW off their mountain. As far as GW goes, they are creating the issues or shortages to drive up prices and create more profit. People have to order from them direct so instead of making 50% profit they make 100% on every box. Problem is they are going to lose the retailers who sell their product. Under production and maximizing profit is good, but leaving money on the table is not an effective business tactic. They piss off enough vendors they will simply bring in products they can reliably get from other companies. GW are hardly the only player in the game anymore.

Funny thing is GW will be the one who dethrones themselves through their shotty business tactics.

Yet here people get boxes from flgs and leave gw store on its own. Why pay full price to gw when note to flgs gets one with discount

Now just waiting day i get to go pick it up.

 NAVARRO wrote:
I think that the studio lead times and the actual production lead times are worlds apart and GW has not been able to sort that out which will make the problem a lot bigger.

So the creative guys are churning out assets, sculpting and rules and artwork at a huge pace, thats why you see so much released but the Production sites are not keeping up with that. 40k editions last 3 years cycles now and I can bet the ordinary collector still struggling to finish up previous edition box set... yet the churn keeps on increasing by the month. No one is keeping up with that not even GW production.

Last few months been specially bad.

According to the ex-GW insiders on The Painting Phase; GW were working on setting up a second UK factory when covid hit. By the time it was fully up and running, the upsurge in demand for the hobby from 2020 meant that rather than gradually increasing over several years as expected the factory hit full capacity pretty much immediately.

That prompted them to move the main warehouse to a new location so that the old warehouse could be used for more production space.

angel of death 007 wrote:
Plan on enjoyiing Shatterpoint, can't wait til Atomic Mass takes GW off their mountain. As far as GW goes, they are creating the issues or shortages to drive up prices and create more profit. People have to order from them direct so instead of making 50% profit they make 100% on every box. Problem is they are going to lose the retailers who sell their product. Under production and maximizing profit is good, but leaving money on the table is not an effective business tactic. They piss off enough vendors they will simply bring in products they can reliably get from other companies. GW are hardly the only player in the game anymore.

Funny thing is GW will be the one who dethrones themselves through their shotty business tactics.

This is the news & rumours forum, fan fiction needs to be posted here.

 xttz wrote:

angel of death 007 wrote:
Plan on enjoyiing Shatterpoint, can't wait til Atomic Mass takes GW off their mountain. As far as GW goes, they are creating the issues or shortages to drive up prices and create more profit. People have to order from them direct so instead of making 50% profit they make 100% on every box. Problem is they are going to lose the retailers who sell their product. Under production and maximizing profit is good, but leaving money on the table is not an effective business tactic. They piss off enough vendors they will simply bring in products they can reliably get from other companies. GW are hardly the only player in the game anymore.

Funny thing is GW will be the one who dethrones themselves through their shotty business tactics.

This is the news & rumours forum, fan fiction needs to be posted here.

I can kind of understand the sentiment behind that rant, but

a) GW has survived a lot of supposed 'GW killers' in the past, mostly by having solid finances, being independent from external loans and influences, and by quietly trundling on with what works instead of relying on innovation or flashy licenses

b) Of all things that could actively threaten GW's market share, a licensed product, and that attached to a notoriously fickle and problematic, as well as bloody expensive, license is the least likely to actually succeed just because of the logic licensed products operate under. Typically, it's a couple of years of good support, only to be killed off when it's time to renegotiate and the fees suddenly drain all profits out of the venture.

 kodos wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Deliberately pushing traffic to the GW Webstore when they almost always sell out in seconds anyway is like buying TV ads for a concert that sold out months ago

to make it easier for you
every item sold via the GW online store is more profit for GW, and if item sell out online in minutes, but a physical store is not able to sell anything at all, not sending anything to store and selling them via their own shop is the easy solution to the problem

so no, this is not like having TV ads for a concert that sells out, but having a concert that sold out online, but still has empty seats because 1000s of tickets got not sold in the physical stores which went unnoticed until the concert was over

there are still shops having Cursed City sitting on the shelf, this is lost money for GW.
GW does not lose money with the maybe I would have bought it if it was available (this is a maybe if we produced more we would have sold more, and "lost", but with items that are not selling at all because they are sitting in a store waiting for someone to walk by and no one is interested in once the pre-order hype is over

it is the easiest solution, GW online shop sells out in seconds but the physical store is not => don't ship any item to the physical store and sell everything online
and in addition the profit margin is higher, win-win situation for GW

I dont think you understand how trade accounts work and your conspiracy is unfounded.

angel of death 007 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

angel of death 007 wrote:
Is anyone else on the Leviathan or bust, boat. I feel after missing the last several Kill Team boxes, plague marine heroes etc, that this is my last straw with GW. If they fail the Leviathan box release, I’m done with GW.

Why should I have to fight to maybe get a copy when I can order a great game like Shatterpoint months ahead, no shinnigans and get it delivered to my door on release. I am getting sick of GW business tactics and I think brick and mortar stores are too. I have never seen my LGS with so much blank GW shelf space. I think they are ordering less as they have not been able to get the last several releases.

This is it for me, finding it really hard to support a company who does what they want with no regard to their customers or dedidcated LGS that sell their products.

Do you think GW wants bare shelves?

They can't conjure more boxes from thin air. It's quite difficult to run manufacturing in the UK as opposed to hiring whatever multitude of companies there are in China to make stuff. Go enjoy Shatterpoint if missing out on a box causes you so much grief.

Plan on enjoyiing Shatterpoint, can't wait til Atomic Mass takes GW off their mountain. As far as GW goes, they are creating the issues or shortages to drive up prices and create more profit. People have to order from them direct so instead of making 50% profit they make 100% on every box. Problem is they are going to lose the retailers who sell their product. Under production and maximizing profit is good, but leaving money on the table is not an effective business tactic. They piss off enough vendors they will simply bring in products they can reliably get from other companies. GW are hardly the only player in the game anymore.

Funny thing is GW will be the one who dethrones themselves through their shotty business tactics.

You are aware that there's no law nor legal requirement for GW to sell their products to 3rd parties right? Or to provide them any kind of retailer discount.
If GW didn't want you buying from 3rd parties at all they'd just, shut down sales to 3rd parties and only sell direct.

This isn't the 90s, most of us are online or have access to a computer to get online and many people (especially after Covid) are more than capable of punching in "Games Workshop " to google and get to the GW store online if there isn't a local shop.

GW controls their ecosystem, if they want higher prices they raise them; if they want direct only sales they can do that. Shortages of stock do no benefit them one bit; scalpers raising the prices on what stock they have benefits GW not one bit. Actually its detrimental to them because customers have finite cash. IF customers are buying from scalpers all the time at inflated prices that means the total they spend on hobby that goes direct to GW's pocket is reduced.



AS noted above, GW's issue is that they brought a new factory online but then Covid saw GW's numbers skyrocket up. A LOT of old fans came back; a lot of on the fence people jumped in. It's another reason Indomitus had sales issues. Even if GW had produced ALL the stock they'd planned to produce, the surge in demand would still have stripped them out of stock just as fast.

 xttz wrote:

angel of death 007 wrote:
Plan on enjoyiing Shatterpoint, can't wait til Atomic Mass takes GW off their mountain. As far as GW goes, they are creating the issues or shortages to drive up prices and create more profit. People have to order from them direct so instead of making 50% profit they make 100% on every box. Problem is they are going to lose the retailers who sell their product. Under production and maximizing profit is good, but leaving money on the table is not an effective business tactic. They piss off enough vendors they will simply bring in products they can reliably get from other companies. GW are hardly the only player in the game anymore.

Funny thing is GW will be the one who dethrones themselves through their shotty business tactics.

This is the news & rumours forum, fan fiction needs to be posted here.

Indeed. It's particularly hilarious since Asmodee products, and particularly the miniature gaming side of Asmodee, are notorious for their unreliable availability. Holding them up as some paragon of good supply practices is the hottest of all takes.

angel of death 007 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

angel of death 007 wrote:
Is anyone else on the Leviathan or bust, boat. I feel after missing the last several Kill Team boxes, plague marine heroes etc, that this is my last straw with GW. If they fail the Leviathan box release, I’m done with GW.

Why should I have to fight to maybe get a copy when I can order a great game like Shatterpoint months ahead, no shinnigans and get it delivered to my door on release. I am getting sick of GW business tactics and I think brick and mortar stores are too. I have never seen my LGS with so much blank GW shelf space. I think they are ordering less as they have not been able to get the last several releases.

This is it for me, finding it really hard to support a company who does what they want with no regard to their customers or dedidcated LGS that sell their products.

Do you think GW wants bare shelves?

They can't conjure more boxes from thin air. It's quite difficult to run manufacturing in the UK as opposed to hiring whatever multitude of companies there are in China to make stuff. Go enjoy Shatterpoint if missing out on a box causes you so much grief.

Plan on enjoyiing Shatterpoint, can't wait til Atomic Mass takes GW off their mountain. As far as GW goes, they are creating the issues or shortages to drive up prices and create more profit. People have to order from them direct so instead of making 50% profit they make 100% on every box. Problem is they are going to lose the retailers who sell their product. Under production and maximizing profit is good, but leaving money on the table is not an effective business tactic. They piss off enough vendors they will simply bring in products they can reliably get from other companies. GW are hardly the only player in the game anymore.

Funny thing is GW will be the one who dethrones themselves through their shotty business tactics.

As someone who bought Shatterpoint and both Kenobi and Dooku I really doubt Atomic Mass is going to bring down GW. Shatterpoint is very much a small level skirmish game and does not in any way have the same overall feeling as 40k. I'd love a game that rivals 40k in scope and epic storytelling, but so far not much available with the same market penetration. Let us not also forget that FFG(now AMG) really shot themselves in the foot with the X-Wing 2.0. The speed at which that game died is incredible, and it was a game that locals here were frequently competing in both domestically and elsewhere.

Now Legion on the other hand could do that in an alternate timeline, but that would require some diligent support, and for us who have been following AMG already know that Legion was kind of forced upon AMG.

Slipspace wrote:

 xttz wrote:

angel of death 007 wrote:
Plan on enjoyiing Shatterpoint, can't wait til Atomic Mass takes GW off their mountain. As far as GW goes, they are creating the issues or shortages to drive up prices and create more profit. People have to order from them direct so instead of making 50% profit they make 100% on every box. Problem is they are going to lose the retailers who sell their product. Under production and maximizing profit is good, but leaving money on the table is not an effective business tactic. They piss off enough vendors they will simply bring in products they can reliably get from other companies. GW are hardly the only player in the game anymore.

Funny thing is GW will be the one who dethrones themselves through their shotty business tactics.

This is the news & rumours forum, fan fiction needs to be posted here.

Indeed. It's particularly hilarious since Asmodee products, and particularly the miniature gaming side of Asmodee, are notorious for their unreliable availability. Holding them up as some paragon of good supply practices is the hottest of all takes.

RPG-side is even worse. Star Wars and Genesys dice have been in short supply for years, but completely unavailable for two. The core books are out of stock for years at a time, and their EDGE Studios brand doesn't even have a distributor set up in many countries, so it's completely impossible for FLGS' to order any of their products.

Slipspace wrote:

Indeed. It's particularly hilarious since Asmodee products, and particularly the miniature gaming side of Asmodee, are notorious for their unreliable availability. Holding them up as some paragon of good supply practices is the hottest of all takes.

Their models have improved exponentially over the years, but the production capacity is still very low.

A lot of people seem to forget that the capacity that GW has took decades to build and there aren't a lot of companies willing to throw dollars at a market that is technically very niche.

 Eldarsif wrote:
Let us not also forget that FFG(now AMG) really shot themselves in the foot with the X-Wing 2.0. The speed at which that game died is incredible, and it was a game that locals here were frequently competing in both domestically and elsewhere.

I've been out of the scene for a few years, but as an ex-bfg player I remember x-wing being the big up and coming game that was doing really well. What happened with 2.0? I seemed to have missed that story.