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Made in us
Destructive Daemon Prince





Albany, NY

 Baragash wrote:
Unfortunately Jesse himself has indicated it’s a matter of time as his body is now too weak for further chemo, and he’s bed-ridden in hospital.
Thanks for the update. Also fething feth.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/29 16:43:15


KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in au
Noise Marine Terminator with Sonic Blaster





Melbourne

 Boss Salvage wrote:
 Baragash wrote:
Unfortunately Jesse himself has indicated it’s a matter of time as his body is now too weak for further chemo, and he’s bed-ridden in hospital.
Thanks for the update. Also fething feth.


For those of you who don't follow any of the main Mantic social media outlets, with much sadness, Jesse is no longer with us.

Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch."
Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!" 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

https://www.manticgames.com/news/tribute-to-a-kings-of-war-legend-jesse-cornwell/

Ronnie here with a blog I never wanted to have to write and one that I found extremely difficult this morning.

Kings of War has always been about its community.

From the first slow reveal of the elves on the website, ready to take to the field of battle, through the eight or so hardy souls who travelled up to Nottingham to play test the first set of rules – before they were given away free online – for me it is always about the players.

From the first Kickstarter, where the community rallied around and lifted the game to new heights, to the second edition, which welcomed so many faces looking for a new home, we wanted to build that sense of community.

To the tournament scene growing year on year across the world – the UK, then USA, Oz and Europe – supported by growing online content and podcasts, the community did it all. The word of mouth revolution was growing.

But amongst that community some people stand bigger – in every sense. They encapsulate everything good about what gaming is all about – and they share their passion in all the right ways.


One who stood tallest of them all passed away yesterday. Far too young, and too great a loss. In the gaming world he left behind his brother, father and almost everyone who plays in KoW tournaments.

Jesse was Kings of War in the USA. If there was a tournament, he was there – laughing, joking, playing and enjoying. He played the right way – he occasionally didn’t get to take the sportsman’s award home – but only because he ranked in the top 3! You still know everyone there voted him as their best opponent. In between travelling the US and teaching new players – he was making sure the rules committee knew exactly what they needed to change in the rules… would the mammoth have ever got Strider without him? It was all done in the nicest of ways and he even got his own special magic item!


Oh, and between all that he’d be making videos and battle reports for Master Crafted with his good friend Kyle. These would be both funny and informative – designed to educate and entertain about all things Kings of War. Some of his videos had us laughing so hard at HQ – he said the things we never could! One particular favourite among the community is the Clash of Kings review and it continues to be talked about in the office to this day.


We have also sculpted a figure in his honor and we’ll be donating 25% from each model sold to a charity chosen alongside Jesse’s family. Although it will begin shipping in May, we’ve made it available to pre-order today and you can order it below.


Words cannot express the sadness the community feels at his passing. Made even more acute because we were all denied one last chance to game with him over the last year. One last chance to see how gaming should be done!

But Jesse would not want us to remember him sadly. He’d want us to look at the joy he brought, the passion for the game and the community he loved so much.

The Pie, The Slice, The Bite… AMEN!

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

Ratkin are up for pre order (release in March)

https://www.manticgames.com/games/kings-of-war/ratkin/

Scurrier and Shock Troops are Resin upgrades for the plastic models (website says metal, which is a typo)

following units a compatible with each other:
Ratkin Shock Troops
Ratkin Clawshots
Ratkin Hackpaws
Ratkin Scurriers
Veer-Myn Nightcrawlers
Veer-Myn Creepers


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Stonecold Gimster






 kodos wrote:
Ratkin are up for pre order (release in March)

https://www.manticgames.com/games/kings-of-war/ratkin/

Scurrier and Shock Troops are Resin upgrades for the plastic models (website says metal, which is a typo)

following units a compatible with each other:
Ratkin Shock Troops
Ratkin Clawshots
Ratkin Hackpaws
Ratkin Scurriers
Veer-Myn Nightcrawlers
Veer-Myn Creepers



Except for the weapons on the mass rank rats, I'm sure I got all the rest as part of my 2nd edition Deadzone kickstarter. Has kow become scifi? I feel a tad lost.

My Painting Blog: http://gimgamgoo.com/
Currently most played: Kings of War, Silent Death, Beyond the Gates of Antares, Dracula's America, Bolt Action, X-Wing 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Yeah, they're re-using a fair few models for the ratkin army to kind of bulk it out. There's plenty of new stuff too. That Daemonspawn thing is amazing, no intention to start ratkin but I'm gonna get one just to paint and maybe use as a greater daemon

https://www.manticgames.com/games/kings-of-war/ratkin/ratkin-scudku-zluk-demonspawn-of-diew/
   
Made in us
Seven Year War Afficianado






Chicago

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
 kodos wrote:
Ratkin are up for pre order (release in March)

https://www.manticgames.com/games/kings-of-war/ratkin/

Scurrier and Shock Troops are Resin upgrades for the plastic models (website says metal, which is a typo)

following units a compatible with each other:
Ratkin Shock Troops
Ratkin Clawshots
Ratkin Hackpaws
Ratkin Scurriers
Veer-Myn Nightcrawlers
Veer-Myn Creepers



Except for the weapons on the mass rank rats, I'm sure I got all the rest as part of my 2nd edition Deadzone kickstarter. Has kow become scifi? I feel a tad lost.

Ugh.

Ratmen have a relatively long tradition in gaming of being a bit steampunk in their technology, and mantic has a history of reusing tooling but this is a lazy baloney sandwich with no condiments.

At least the first generation of Forge Fathers got new torso's and bits.
This is just sci fi stuff that doesn't even fit the aesthetic. Mantic seemed to be moving up recently but this is a step back for sure.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/14 14:37:30


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 Eilif wrote:

This is just sci fi stuff that doesn't even fit the aesthetic. Mantic seemed to be moving up recently but this is a step back for sure.


What did you expect ? They don't have the ressources to do a whole army from scrap and sell it all at once.

Be already happy that they made an upgrade pack for their "not storm vermins" units, so that you can build one. Of course, you need to buy the basic plastic kit separately to use the upgrade pack (even though they showed a picture of the full unit on their webstore) but hey why bother over small details like this ?

Besides, while it's true it's plain reusing their SF army for KoW, with a coherent paint scheme and a few conversions here and there, I don't think it will look that bad. The SF army already had a steampunk kind of look, and it can fit the fantasy setting without too many troubles IMHO.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/14 14:51:12


 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






So those veermyn are actually part of the KoW army? I thought it was some organizational error on the order page.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

looking at the Tunnel Runner just need some minor details to be less SciFi
on the other hand, 2 similar units with minor differences for Fantasy and SciFi is far beyond what Mantic can do

same for the Nightmares (and here the GW Stormfiends look less Fantasy than the Mantic kit) which are also compatible with the Ogre kits (up to a point, for those who want different weapon arms)

I understand the problem that this is a mixed Steampunk range and a pure Fantasy release

but I am very happy with it
that everything is compatible also add the possibility to use the Fantasy models in Deadzone/Warpath for a more primitve look

the Demonspawn is an amazing model, the basic infantry looks very good and there are no metal parts

Sarouan wrote:
Of course, you need to buy the basic plastic kit separately to use the upgrade pack (even though they showed a picture of the full unit on their webstore) but hey why bother over small details like this ?

the full kits are supposed to come later with the next wave as the upgrade kits are mantic shop exclusive


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So those veermyn are actually part of the KoW army? I thought it was some organizational error on the order page.

no, those units that are similar for Ratkin and Veer-Myn use the same models
while the infantry is made to have compatible parts so you can use the Deadzone bits in KoW and vica versa

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/14 17:09:58


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Seven Year War Afficianado






Chicago

Sarouan wrote:
 Eilif wrote:

This is just sci fi stuff that doesn't even fit the aesthetic. Mantic seemed to be moving up recently but this is a step back for sure.


What did you expect ? They don't have the ressources to do a whole army from scrap and sell it all at once.

Be already happy that they made an upgrade pack for their "not storm vermins" units, so that you can build one. Of course, you need to buy the basic plastic kit separately to use the upgrade pack (even though they showed a picture of the full unit on their webstore) but hey why bother over small details like this ?

Besides, while it's true it's plain reusing their SF army for KoW, with a coherent paint scheme and a few conversions here and there, I don't think it will look that bad. The SF army already had a steampunk kind of look, and it can fit the fantasy setting without too many troubles IMHO.

I have no dog in this, so if it's good enough for you by means buy it.
However but what I would "expect" is that they either do up a resin or metal modification parts pack or wait until they have the funds to do a whole new model.
What I did not expect is for a company that seems to be slowly upping it's game to engage in the nonsense of pushing sci fi machine gun monowhweels into a fantasy setting.

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Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Eilif wrote:

I have no dog in this, so if it's good enough for you by means buy it.


Nah, I'm not interested in "not skaven" version of Mantic Games - nor the recycling of their "not 40k skaven" army in their fantasy counterpart.

It's just that I understand why MG is doing it, which is...


However but what I would "expect" is that they either do up a resin or metal modification parts pack or wait until they have the funds to do a whole new model.


...if they did that, they would have put themselves in the exact same problem with Warhammer Fantasy Battle army books showing rules for models that they didn't sell yet.

Simply put, the players go elsewhere to find the models they want to play with the rules. And that's lost sales for Mantic Games.

Moreover, since they already have these models in their SF range, it helps getting rid of the old stock in bundles while giving the feeling to their customers that they are having a great deal. It's a win-win situation for MG, really.

Later, they can always make more "fantasy like" versions with another of their boardgames in the same universe or whatever (can't say it will be Vanguard, since they already release a warband for that system - maybe Vanguard 2.0 or something).


What I did not expect is for a company that seems to be slowly upping it's game to engage in the nonsense of pushing sci fi machine gun monowhweels into a fant
asy setting.


I always said Mantic Games is just a cheap version of GW, and nothing they did recently is giving me the opposite idea.

Yet, the frontier between SF and Fantasy can be blurry sometimes...I mean, if you didn't know these units came from the SF range of Mantic Games, would you really have called it ?

But otherwise, I totally understand your point and it's very valid as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/14 19:14:10


 
   
Made in gb
Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms







Billicus wrote:
Yeah, they're re-using a fair few models for the ratkin army to kind of bulk it out. There's plenty of new stuff too. That Daemonspawn thing is amazing, no intention to start ratkin but I'm gonna get one just to paint and maybe use as a greater daemon

https://www.manticgames.com/games/kings-of-war/ratkin/ratkin-scudku-zluk-demonspawn-of-diew/


Cant say I liked it ... those wings at that scale look really untextured, malformed and unfinished?

   
Made in us
Seven Year War Afficianado






Chicago

Sarouan wrote:
.


However but what I would "expect" is that they either do up a resin or metal modification parts pack or wait until they have the funds to do a whole new model.


...if they did that, they would have put themselves in the exact same problem with Warhammer Fantasy Battle army books showing rules for models that they didn't sell yet.

Simply put, the players go elsewhere to find the models they want to play with the rules. And that's lost sales for Mantic Games.

Moreover, since they already have these models in their SF range, it helps getting rid of the old stock in bundles while giving the feeling to their customers that they are having a great deal. It's a win-win situation for MG, really.

Later, they can always make more "fantasy like" versions with another of their boardgames in the same universe or whatever (can't say it will be Vanguard, since they already release a warband for that system - maybe Vanguard 2.0 or something).


What I did not expect is for a company that seems to be slowly upping it's game to engage in the nonsense of pushing sci fi machine gun monowhweels into a fant
asy setting.


I always said Mantic Games is just a cheap version of GW, and nothing they did recently is giving me the opposite idea.

Yet, the frontier between SF and Fantasy can be blurry sometimes...I mean, if you didn't know these units came from the SF range of Mantic Games, would you really have called it ?

But otherwise, I totally understand your point and it's very valid as well.

Good points. I would suggest that....
-Mantic is already in the place of having LOTS of units in KoW unrepresented and leaving these unrepresented until they get proper models won't hurt perception any more than it already is.

-Rather than a win-win, it's just setting up their buyers for more disappointment. Not only when they get a buch of models that don't really look fantasy, but when the proper models finally are released and they're stuck with either playing with sub-par models or rebuying the new ones. First generation Forgefathers anyone....?

-I totally get crossover in sci-fantasy. I just think it works better when the past is pulled into the future (a'la Warhammer into Rogue Trader) than when sci-fi tech get's dropped into the past.

All that said, you raise a good point about whether folks would notice and in some cases they probably wouldn't. I think the Tangle (possibly minus the minder) and possibly the Nightmares (would look better with alternate weapons sprue though) could drop in ok. However, the Brood Mother, Night Terrors and Runners really stick out even with a fantasy paint job. Like slipping eldar into a wood elf army.


Chicago Skirmish Wargames club. Join us for some fast-play, indie gaming in the windy city.
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My Project Log, mostly revolving around custom "Toybashed" terrain.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651712.page

Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad!
https://chicagovalleyrailroad.blogspot.com 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Eilif wrote:

-Mantic is already in the place of having LOTS of units in KoW unrepresented and leaving these unrepresented until they get proper models won't hurt perception any more than it already is.


No, I don't agree with that. It may have worked in the past but at some point, they must show they can't just hide behind that argument forever. There is a limit when even blind fanboyz can't avert gaze from reality anymore. At least, the critical mass of them...which is really what matters about sales.

They're at the point they released a new version of KoW with a core rulebook showing all armies that are nearly complete or totally complete on their webstore. That was the point why Kingdom of Men were removed from the core list and put in the extension books. So it's important for them to keep showing they can support the whole range with Mantic Games models only for one of their core games - it's simply better for them to have all the sales for all the playable units, rather than forcing their loyal community following them for so long to go find elsewhere the missing models for their favorite army.



-Rather than a win-win, it's just setting up their buyers for more disappointment. Not only when they get a buch of models that don't really look fantasy, but when the proper models finally are released and they're stuck with either playing with sub-par models or rebuying the new ones. First generation Forgefathers anyone....?


You don't need to make me remember that ! Though you know, I think you can make really nice elite steampunk dwarves out of some of the SF first generation forgefather range and MG just showed it wouldn't bother them that much with what they did with the ratkin. And Kodos' reaction on this topic is a proof that it's not that important for true MG fanboyz.



-I totally get crossover in sci-fantasy. I just think it works better when the past is pulled into the future (a'la Warhammer into Rogue Trader) than when sci-fi tech get's dropped into the past.


Really depends what degree of SF, I believe. If it's "40k SF", it's gothic enough and weird tech-sorcery that it can be put in a fantasy setting with minimal effort (it's not a hazard if some 40k miniatures are converted in AoS armies as well as the opposite). For the veermyn, it's steampunk enough to work. If it was federation "not space marines" being used for Kingdom of Men, yeah, that wouldn't have worked the same at all IMHO.



All that said, you raise a good point about whether folks would notice and in some cases they probably wouldn't. I think the Tangle (possibly minus the minder) and possibly the Nightmares (would look better with alternate weapons sprue though) could drop in ok. However, the Brood Mother, Night Terrors and Runners really stick out even with a fantasy paint job. Like slipping eldar into a wood elf army.


More like exodites in a wood elf army. You can tell something is weird, but it's still close enough that you can find a way to say "yeah I can make it work still".

That said, the SF units are also older (not as bad as the elves, of course ! ) so maybe it's that that shows.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/14 22:49:15


 
   
Made in au
Courageous Beastmaster




Australia

I am thinking I might get some of the Ratkin basic troops and see about converting them into Orcs so I can have some variety in my troops, because at the moment there are 5 melee units which all use the same variant body types (well, apart from the Greatax, which have only 2 bodies, but I have been using them with the regulars to give a broader span across them).

Just chop off the legs and replace them and the heads and they should work pretty nicely.
   
Made in us
Destructive Daemon Prince





Albany, NY

Overall, for me there are more winners (Shock Troops, every new Ratkin character but especially the Brute and Scudz) than losers (Veer-myn ports of very good units - Brood Moms in particular, but not Nightmares since they suck anyway). If I didn't already have a Skaven army, I'd be tempted to make an all-Mantic rat army, to prove it can be done ... but at these prices, I can't justify basically rebuilding an army just to support the company. The minis aren't that mindblowing tho I appreciate having so many options represented in some Mantic form, even with sci-fi ports, and I also appreciate having another army-scale source for rat-people. It's a rare theme to see in bulk, with Skaven really being the only player (and preeeeeeetty iffy at times - see the rat ogre discussion a few pages back).

Worth noting that the Mutant Rat Fiend is not pictured here, and it's one of the better sculpts of the release.
 Fenriswulf wrote:
I am thinking I might get some of the Ratkin basic troops and see about converting them into Orcs so I can have some variety in my troops, because at the moment there are 5 melee units which all use the same variant body types (well, apart from the Greatax, which have only 2 bodies, but I have been using them with the regulars to give a broader span across them).
Somewhat ironically, the original Mantic studio Ratkin army used Veer-myn troops with Orc arms, and it worked weirdly well! I was among those who did a double take until the magic was revealed.

KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
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Using Inks and Washes





San Francisco, CA

Do folks know if the Ratkin models mix nicely with GW Skaven? I guess many of these models aren't out yet (?) but maybe some have the deadzone rats?

They look a bit chunkier, but it's hard to tell with just the renders and photos we've seen!

I play...

Sigh.

Who am I kidding? I only paint these days... 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







I think they might, just might, work as part of an army, but won't work within the same unit.

At the very least I can't imagine it'll be worse than combining various GW miniature generations together.
   
Made in us
Destructive Daemon Prince





Albany, NY

 Compel wrote:
At the very least I can't imagine it'll be worse than combining various GW miniature generations together.
QFT. Mantic rats actually remind me quite a bit of the pre-IOB Skaven, but an alternate timeline where instead of horrific rat-dog plastics you got pretty decent plastics that matched the metals, and instead of unsupported gaps in the line that you were expected to convert yourself or use ancient OOP sculpts for you got 40k models as suggested alternatives

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/16 18:13:54


KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Are you criticizing the still current night runner kit!?

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/searchResults?_dyncharset=UTF-8&_dynSessConf=-3216339398997439046&qty=&sorting=&view=&Ntt=Night+runners
   
Made in de
!!Goffik Rocker!!






Nuremberg

I feel like they really missed a trick here by not launching with really cool looking rat ogres. The sci fi ports are a let down.

   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Da Boss wrote:
I feel like they really missed a trick here by not launching with really cool looking rat ogres. The sci fi ports are a let down.


Better to keep your expectations low with Mantic Games. It fits their budget for making new stuff, and sometimes you have a good surprise that way.

If they can provide for all the armies in KoW - including those from Uncharted Empires - in a shorter time frame, it's already good enough.

Wonder if Armada isn't as well eating a bit of their ressources, at this point. KoW doesn't seem to be their highest priority at the moment.
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

Armada is definitely using up their in house casting ressources
the demand is way higher than Mantic expected and they focus on full filling those orders

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Sarouan wrote:
 Da Boss wrote:
I feel like they really missed a trick here by not launching with really cool looking rat ogres. The sci fi ports are a let down.


Better to keep your expectations low with Mantic Games. It fits their budget for making new stuff, and sometimes you have a good surprise that way...

...Wonder if Armada isn't as well eating a bit of their ressources, at this point. KoW doesn't seem to be their highest priority at the moment.


List of confirmed Ratkin new releases from store/blog AKA low budget expectations

Ratkin Warriors Plastics
Clawshots Troop
Demonspawn
Vermintide
Warchief
Brute Enforcer
Scurriers Upgrade
Shock Troops Upgrade
Swarm Crier
Warlock
Hackpaws
Mutant Rat Fiend
Death Engine (both?)
Birthing Daughter
Twitch Keenear
Master Scurrier

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/18 13:32:25


 
   
Made in gb
Fighter Ace




England

It’s a very hit or miss release. There are some really nice models, and some that’s clearly sci-fi models. But I feel mantic couldn’t really spend big bucks on this range, as they are realistic enough to know 90% of players do, and will continue to use GW shaven for this army. If they can get those players to pick up one or two of the new resins, then they have made some sales out of players that weren’t buying any of their models.

it's the quiet ones you have to look out for. Their the ones that change the world, the loud ones just take the credit for it. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Tamereth wrote:
...But I feel mantic couldn’t really spend big bucks on this range, as they are realistic enough to know 90% of players do, and will continue to use GW shaven for this army...


I feel like I'm in some kind of weird information vacuum here. This launch is objectively larger than any from this edition, even discounting the sci-fi ports, yet people keep saying Mantic isn't doing much.
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 sukura636 wrote:
 Tamereth wrote:
...But I feel mantic couldn’t really spend big bucks on this range, as they are realistic enough to know 90% of players do, and will continue to use GW shaven for this army...


I feel like I'm in some kind of weird information vacuum here. This launch is objectively larger than any from this edition, even discounting the sci-fi ports, yet people keep saying Mantic isn't doing much.


Certainly because the whole list isn't released yet, just a part of it. It's like seeing the whole picture of full releases of Northern Alliance before they were all out and saying it's the biggest release yet. At that game, I can also say the elves releases are the biggest as well.

Also, the brute enforcer comes from League of Infamy, it's not a new miniature.
   
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Glorious Nation of U.S.S.A!

Any news on the release of the new drakon elf riders?
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 warboss wrote:
Any news on the release of the new drakon elf riders?


They're still working on delivering the League of Infamy pledges ATM, I don't expect we're getting early news before they sort it out.
   
 
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