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Hey, I'm brand new to 8th edition but I played a ton of 6th,
Right now I am exclusively playing against Eldar,
Is there some models that I can take in a necron list that are auto includes against eldar?
I have every HQ
over 100 warriors,
couple squads of immortals,
3 barges, 6 doom scythes, 3 monoliths.. most vehicles except barges..

And I have 15 destroyers and 3 heavy destroyers..

What would I take to do well against Eldar?

 KonTheory wrote:
Hey, I'm brand new to 8th edition but I played a ton of 6th,
Right now I am exclusively playing against Eldar,
Is there some models that I can take in a necron list that are auto includes against eldar?
I have every HQ
over 100 warriors,
couple squads of immortals,
3 barges, 6 doom scythes, 3 monoliths.. most vehicles except barges..

And I have 15 destroyers and 3 heavy destroyers..

What would I take to do well against Eldar?

Depends on what your opponent is taking, if your opponent is taking a bunch of Scatbikes it's a totally different matchup compared to facing Wave Serpent and/or Flyer spam. In general Monoliths are trash and should be avoided at all costs and Warriors and Gauss Immortals are vastly inferior to Tesla Immortals supported by an Overlord. Crypteks are only good for really big and valuable squads and Resurrection Orbs are even more niche in that direction but are in general trash. 12 Destroyers, 3 Doom Scythes and a Battalion with all your Tesla Immortals, Imotekh and an Overlord would probably be best. Fill out your list with Warriors in squads that are as big as possible, if you don't have Imotekh switch him out for a Cryptek. Remember to use our best Relic and make your entire army Sautekh and use the Methodical Destruction Stratagem to help you shoot down Flyers. Destroyers are bad against Wave Serpents, but otherwise they are always better than Heavy Destroyers.

All I know about his list is that he doesnt have flyers, uses a few jetbikes, and a couple fire prisms and wave serpents, he usually likes his infantry units that start off the table and in first movement are placed right in your face

Tesla immortals counter infantry. DDAs counter fire prisms and wave serpents. Destroyers can destroy everything with extermination protocols. Scarabs can screen against melee attacks.

Is it viable to horde with warriors? or is that no good?

You can do it, but Warrior blobs need a few things to make them resistant enough to be a problem:

Warlord with Immortal Pride to give them auto-pass morale
Cryptek with Chronometron to give them +1 to reanimation and the 5++, which comes into its own when your opponent uses inefficient firepower that's like -3 or whatever to pick off those last few models.

Ghost Ark isn't strictly necessary, but they are good on their own for the extra firepower and also their ability to tag and shutdown shooting with charges. The reroll reanimation is perfect for keeping the blobs alive as bad rolls do happen.

The thing about silver tide is that while it can be tricky to shift if you build around it, it's only good at specific things, like refusing to yield an objective or swamping models, they won't kill a whole lot of things bigger than GEQ

This sort of setup can be amazing for

 KonTheory wrote:
Is it viable to horde with warriors? or is that no good?

Here is how I'd silver tide, assuming its not a particularly competitive game.
Sautekh lets them advance, and still get at least SOME firepower if you need to claim objectives.
Plenty of fast units to grab objectives, and a lot of fearless bodies.
Nightbringer to get a few mortal wounds and kill anything that tries to tie up the warriors in melee.


Sautehk Bataliion +5CP

 KonTheory wrote:
All I know about his list is that he doesnt have flyers, uses a few jetbikes, and a couple fire prisms and wave serpents, he usually likes his infantry units that start off the table and in first movement are placed right in your face

Sounds like you don't use up to date rules. Nothing that isn't deployed on board or in transport that is on board can come to the board on t1. T2 is earliest you can bring reserves.

tneva82 wrote:

 KonTheory wrote:
All I know about his list is that he doesnt have flyers, uses a few jetbikes, and a couple fire prisms and wave serpents, he usually likes his infantry units that start off the table and in first movement are placed right in your face

Sounds like you don't use up to date rules. Nothing that isn't deployed on board or in transport that is on board can come to the board on t1. T2 is earliest you can bring reserves.

We've only played with the new rules once, and have already noticed a lot of mistakes that were made, for now we are just reading up on the gameplay in general to tighten up the mistakes from last game.
But this is how I learn I suppose.

Honestly Necrons become a lot more fun to play if you can deepstrike Turn 1

Dunno. Necron's don't have all that much deep strike assaulters and would just eat T1 charges a lot. Especially as necron's have only 1 semi viable screen unit.

The Monolith (and the tomb world in general tbh) is designed around being able to drop reinforcements T1, and even then it's unreliable. But now, since it only has a 6" move it's completely pointless as a transport if deployed normally, and if you deep strike it, your reserves won't arrive until t3, which is also the last turn when reinforcements can arrive at all. Not to mention the fact that it has similar durability and firepower to a Plagueburst Crawler, but seems to pay an additional 184 points for this extremely lackluster transport ability

Considering how it's the most iconic necron unit, it's really sad how busted it is

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
The Monolith (and the tomb world in general tbh) is designed around being able to drop reinforcements T1, and even then it's unreliable. But now, since it only has a 6" move it's completely pointless as a transport if deployed normally, and if you deep strike it, your reserves won't arrive until t3, which is also the last turn when reinforcements can arrive at all. Not to mention the fact that it has similar durability and firepower to a Plagueburst Crawler, but seems to pay an additional 184 points for this extremely lackluster transport ability

Considering how it's the most iconic necron unit, it's really sad how busted it is

I'm very very angry with what they "designed" with Tomb World deployment.
It's kinda supposed to reflect the technological superiority of the Necrons with half-breed transports/deep strike portals. But we end with something vastly inferior than either of them.

We cannot deploy multiple units from a single transport without taking multiple turns or costing us CP.

The only advantage of Tomb World is to be able to deploy from any portal, which offer options, but it's not realistic with the costs of the Monolith/Nightscythe.

Emergency disembark cost us CP and is only available when the last portal dies.

If we don't disembark post T3 we're screwed.

We're totally screwed Drukhari and Gene-cult deny our Emergency Beams with Agent of Vect and the gene-cult version.

With all the cons of the rule, it should save money on the transport. It's litteraly worse that any transport rule

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
The Monolith (and the tomb world in general tbh) is designed around being able to drop reinforcements T1, and even then it's unreliable. But now, since it only has a 6" move it's completely pointless as a transport if deployed normally, and if you deep strike it, your reserves won't arrive until t3, which is also the last turn when reinforcements can arrive at all. Not to mention the fact that it has similar durability and firepower to a Plagueburst Crawler, but seems to pay an additional 184 points for this extremely lackluster transport ability

Considering how it's the most iconic necron unit, it's really sad how busted it is

6" movement, high price and being super soft kills it. You can still bring stuff out of it T1 if you want with stratagem. Necrons might gain a bit from monolith being able to bring stuff out of it without CP but it would still be overpriced super soft target with weakish guns. Meanwhile you would be facing T1 charges by the bucketload.

After ATC and keeping on eye on the top lists at various ITC events, I'm thinking this trend towards knights, fliers, and other vehicles is going to stick for a little while.

I normally play with 30 Tesla Immortals and Immotekh, but they didn't really have a lot of targets in my games at the ATC. After getting to see 30 different lists across the table in those 6 team games, one would think that we would've seen a horde list or two.

But most players seem to be packing minimum troops so they can fit in as many heavy-hitters as possible. Obviously, there are some very competitive lists that still pack a lot of bodies, but I'm seeing that overall, the winning lists seem to be skewing to a lower model count.

I'm very happy with the performance of 3 Doom Scythes, 3 DDAs, and 6 Destroyers, but the 30 Immortals never really had a moment to shine. They definitely stuck out as a liability in my games against Aeldari fliers. So not only did they not really do anything spectacular in my wins, they felt like a handicap in my losses.

I'm curious if there's a more effective approach in the current meta than the traditional Imotekh + 30 Tesla Immortals. What do you think?

I just ordered a few Tesseract Arks, and I plan to test this list for the SoCal Open:

Sautekh Spearhead

Cryptek, Cloak, Warlord, Hyperlogical Strategist
3x Doomsday Ark

Sautekh Spearhead

Cryptek, Cloak, Veil of Darkness

6 Destroyers, 1 Heavy Gauss Cannon
3x Tesseract Ark, 2 Gauss Cannons

Sautekh Air Wing

3x Doom Scythe

How about imotekh and 15 immortals ? Your list is a little low on CP. I can imagine you spend 1 or 2CP on ATD, depending on when you lose one DS. Another 1 or 2CP are spend on EP. Which leaves you with only 2CP for some re-rolls. You have no obsec infantry, no tomb blades, no scarabs. How are you going to handle a 150 model obsec horde army ?

The low CP is an issue, but I'm thinking it will be ok. ATD, EP, Methodical Destruction, Quantum Deflection, and Damage Control Override are the only really important stratagems to get off. With Hyperlogical Strategist, I should be able to get a couple of them off twice. ATD isn't even a strat I want to get off in every matchup, and EP is something that is lucky to go off twice.

When's the last time you faced a 150 model ob sec army in ITC? And if I do run into that, I'll just focus on screening off one objective so I get to hold one every turn and then work on getting kill more and maxing secondaries.

For ITC in general, I'm giving up hold more in the early turns for kill more.

Like I said, it appears that most competitive lists are only running a few dozen small bodies for objectives, and I have more than enough dakka for something like 60 Guardsmen.

If hordes start dominating, then I'll pivot. But Custodes grav-tanks, Aeldari fliers, Imperial (and now Chaos) Knights, and triple Riptides are definitely way more popular than huge hoard armies.

Hrrm. I think I saw that the top Necrons player at ATC was running silver tide immortals in two battalions, placing ahead of at least one doom six list. Not sure I agree with the elite low model count setup for Necrons ITC. 50 to 60 immorts with 3+\5++ seems a valid option, and people don't seem as concerned by doom six as they do having to face 100/120 tesla on 4s or 5s. You can still incorporate either scythes or ddas in that setup, just not both.

I came to the double battalion concept before listening to ATC recaps, and I was pleasantly surprised to hear people saying they'd rather face doomsix than a table full of immorts with saves and 4+ reanimates

30 lychguard won 2nd last weekend.

Brian Strongman - Gork's Grand Open
Uploaded with for Gorks Grand Bash! @2019-07-21T18:39:04+00:00


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [28 PL, 529pts, 8CP] ++ + No Force Org Slot +
Battle-forged CP [3CP]
Detachment CP [5CP]
Dynasty Choice
. Dynasty: Maynarkh: Dynastic Code: Translocation Beams

+ HQ +
Kutlakh the World Killer [10 PL, 200pts]: Warlord
Overlord [6 PL, 104pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Voidscythe
+ Troops +
Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine
Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: 5x Immortal, Tesla Carbine



++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [25 PL, 458pts, 5CP] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Detachment CP [5CP]
Dynasty Choice
. Dynasty: Maynarkh: Dynastic Code: Translocation Beams

+ HQ +
Destroyer Lord [7 PL, 129pts]: Phylactery,
Warscythe Overlord [6 PL, 104pts]: Voidscythe
+ Troops +
Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal
Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal
Immortals [4 PL, 75pts]: Gauss Blaster, 5x Immortal



++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [62 PL, 1,008pts, 1CP] ++
+ No Force Org Slot +
Detachment CP [1CP]
Dynasty Choice
. Dynasty: Nephrekh

+ HQ +
Anrakyr the Traveller [9 PL, 167pts]
Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

+ Elites +
Lychguard [16 PL, 252pts]: 9x Lychguard, Warscythe
Lychguard [16 PL, 252pts]: Hyperphase Sword and Dispersion Shield, 9x Lychguard
Lychguard [16 PL, 252pts]: Hyperphase Sword and Dispersion Shield, 9x Lychguard


++ Total: [115 PL, 14CP, 1,995pts] ++

I love the nephrek lychguard. Dump one in a translocation crypt.. yeah, that works. I get so stuck on the concept that melee needs to be novokh: "movement is more important to melee than a reroll" is a strikingly compelling argument.

 DogHeadGod wrote:
I love the nephrek lychguard. Dump one in a translocation crypt.. yeah, that works. I get so stuck on the concept that melee needs to be novokh: "movement is more important to melee than a reroll" is a strikingly compelling argument.

He messed up his list, the Battalion should include the Cryptek or Anrakyr. He brought Kutlakh but the LG were the wrong Dynasy. If they had been Maynarkh they could not get DS which is how I imagine it was played. I don't understand why he'd go for a double Battalion, I have no idea what is eating his CP. I tried Kutlakh a couple of times, maybe it was the lack of Dispersion Shields that brought me down, I found 30 Lychguard + Kutlakh to be too squishy, of course playing against a DA plasma castle will do that to you. I've had much more success with 30 Novokh Lychguard, Anrakyr doesn't fall behind nearly as much when you play Novokh instead of Nephrekh and saving 120 pts on Kutlakh feels like it makes a difference.

With Nephrekh Kutlakh I just often found that I was racing ahead of Anrakyr and making 17 hits, with Novokh I'm either making 54 with Veil, fight twice and Crimson Haze, 27 with Anrakyr or 31 with Anrakyr and Crimson Haze, even if you do keep Anrakyr close you are getting at most 25 hits with no way of fighting twice. I'm guessing the LG player was playing a more tactical game instead of simply clearing the board, the lack of a Lord also speaks to that fact. You are better off just spamming Canoptek Wraiths instead of this garbage, I mean seriously 11"+ charge, wow you're almost as fast as Wraiths, 3+/4++ wow you're almost as tough as Wraiths, 20 attacks D1 S5 AP-3, wow you're almost as hard-hitting as Wraiths. This player was just an absolute maverick of a player but he seems to be trash at list-building or to have gone out of his way to make his own life difficult by bringing Kutlakh in a list where only his Overlords and Immortals benefit.

Deep Striking melee Necrons is kind of meh, you can't MWBD so you are looking at a very good chance of eating overwatch and failing your charge. You'd be better off taking Nephrekh Destroyers, drop down and blast T2. That's a thousand times more reliable and almost as durable. The only thing they don't do so well is kill 4++ Knights, but hey, when they fail at killing it they aren't getting stomped half to death!

I'm kind of sad we had a 30 Lychguard list do well at a tournament, I'm not really sure if I can justify bringing 30 Lychguard to casual games anymore.

 DogHeadGod wrote:
Hrrm. I think I saw that the top Necrons player at ATC was running silver tide immortals in two battalions, placing ahead of at least one doom six list. Not sure I agree with the elite low model count setup for Necrons ITC. 50 to 60 immorts with 3+\5++ seems a valid option, and people don't seem as concerned by doom six as they do having to face 100/120 tesla on 4s or 5s. You can still incorporate either scythes or ddas in that setup, just not both.

I came to the double battalion concept before listening to ATC recaps, and I was pleasantly surprised to hear people saying they'd rather face doomsix than a table full of immorts with saves and 4+ reanimates

Do you have a source on that? From what I can see the ATC had one Necron player in the top four teams and he brought 15 Immortals. I don't think I've ever seen anyone top 5 with anything more than 30 Tesla Immortals in a big event and 0 Troops is a thing in about 30% of Necron lists. You don't need a Cryptek with a Chronometron to watch your Immortals, the likelihood of a Cryptek earning his keep is relatively low. Stick with Lords and Overlords instead, especially the Overlords are key when you bring that number of Immortals.

I do recommend people give 50+ Immortals + Vargard Obyron a try, it's surprisingly mobile and great fun overall, all the captive gak of melee armies just kind of fails when you can teleport a unit each turn and another unit once per game. It looks like TB spam is far more common than Immortal spam ATM. When you don't have to invest in Overlords Tomb Blades put out a very similar amount of firepower as Immortals. The main strength of Immortals I'd say is their ability to get through things with penalties to hit compared to TBs which I would imagine struggle a lot more with those. As far as Knights goes, you really can't get anything better than Immortals, they are some of our most durable units when it comes to Knights and they are also better than anything else we have at killing them. The weakness of Immortals is 2+ Sv, things like Custodes take twice as many shots to kill as Knights. The big Custodes Dreadnought for example is exactly as tough as a Knight at only 3/4 or 3/5 of the cost, but just as hard to kill with AP-.

If thats the list he played then its illegal. Only one HQ in a battalion.

It's triple battalion. The second HQ was there, it was just formatted poorly. I fixed it.

Marshal_Gus wrote:
The low CP is an issue, but I'm thinking it will be ok. ATD, EP, Methodical Destruction, Quantum Deflection, and Damage Control Override are the only really important stratagems to get off. With Hyperlogical Strategist, I should be able to get a couple of them off twice. ATD isn't even a strat I want to get off in every matchup, and EP is something that is lucky to go off twice.

I wouldnt bother with QD with 3 DDAs. Just play DCO when one gets damaged. Dont count on HS for getting CPs back. I had games with 10CP+ at the beginning, and i didnt get a single point back.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778446.page#10518302

To be fair, I did not go onto BCP and doublecheck this claim, but this is the army to whom I referred, and I heard it spoken of on one of the four podcasts I listen to... possibly the long war. Not twisted dice or FTN. They had a full recap of one of the guys ATC experiences with, I think, Brohammer, and a solid segment was in regards to how nobobody wanted to play against the crazy bastard with 60 immortals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Since I was already playing a 55 immortal list... this made me happy.

 DogHeadGod wrote:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778446.page#10518302

To be fair, I did not go onto BCP and doublecheck this claim, but this is the army to whom I referred, and I heard it spoken of on one of the four podcasts I listen to... possibly the long war. Not twisted dice or FTN. They had a full recap of one of the guys ATC experiences with, I think, Brohammer, and a solid segment was in regards to how nobobody wanted to play against the crazy bastard with 60 immortals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Since I was already playing a 55 immortal list... this made me happy.

NW buddy, if Zid said that he was a top ATC player then it's fine that you repeat it. Orikan is interesting, I don't know if he'd be worth it, in my opinion he is even worse than a regular Cryptek because so much melee is happening at AP- (Orks, AM) or AP-2 (Knights, DPs). Bloodletters aren't used much anymore so that leaves Custodes and Smash Captains. I don't think I've played against codex Genestealer Cults and only played against Cults once or twice before. The Orb of Eternity seems like mistake, less than maybe obvious because he brought Destroyers.

I kind of skipped around the batrep and the best Necron player at ATC went 5/0/1 and was named Zachary and the batrep opponent was Zach. So probably the same guy. Zach appeared to be lucky with his 5+ invuls, if it works it works, so it may just be something that he finds personal success with, but from a personal and maths perspective it seems like a bad choice. The absolute madman got 5 Destroyers back with the Orb of Eternity, I guess that's worth the CP and 35 pts, still just barely and with an average of half a Destroyer from the Relic, come on, it's a bad choice.

Orikan, for me, is worth it for the flexibility in a 6 inch saves umbrella rather than 3. The whole "sudden beatstick" thing is purely a bonus: double invuln range is worth 20, imho. I don't run an orb of any sort in my list, but I do run imotekh/orikan/55 immortals (50 tesla/5 gauss, gauss are engineers along w 5 shield lychguard.)

That being said, I am certain this man is a far better pilot at this point: just tickled me to see the immortal tide have success.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One point which confuses me regularly: why would you take Imotekh as your warlord? Imo, hyperlogical strat is measurably worse than immortal pride in all ways, and no rule says Imotekh has to be your warlord, merely that if he is your warlord, you have to use this objectively bad trait. I willingly sacrifice the 1cp to avoid having to take HS, and bring imotekh only for his efficiency in MWBD to help with properly supporting the 50 tesla robots.

 DogHeadGod wrote:

One point which confuses me regularly: why would you take Imotekh as your warlord? Imo, hyperlogical strat is measurably worse than immortal pride in all ways, and no rule says Imotekh has to be your warlord, merely that if he is your warlord, you have to use this objectively bad trait. I willingly sacrifice the 1cp to avoid having to take HS, and bring imotekh only for his efficiency in MWBD to help with properly supporting the 50 tesla robots.

Because he has BS/WS2+, S5, T5, W6, 2+ sv, 4+ inv, regains D3 wounds, MWBD twice for free for sautekh, his storm ability and the 1CP. He is the only HQ unit which is worth his points.

I did not say "why take him". He's currently a model I'm using. However, making him your warlord only grants you the 1cp, yet I see it regularly. Take him, slap warlord/immortal pride on a random overlord. Avoid HS.

 DogHeadGod wrote:
I did not say "why take him". He's currently a model I'm using. However, making him your warlord only grants you the 1cp, yet I see it regularly. Take him, slap warlord/immortal pride on a random overlord. Avoid HS.

More like 5 CP and a free re-roll. How many Immortals do you think you'd lose to Morale? I've ran 60 Immortals in I don't know how many games and I lose maybe 3 models/game to morale. Immortal Pride is worse than Hype Strat unless you are running Warriors. If your opponent tries to push hard for the Morale value you can re-roll or auto pass for CP, your opponent will have no reason to try their luck if you are Fearless. Imotekh is also our toughest HQ (unless you use Relic + WL trait on a D-Lord), it makes perfect sense to make him your WL.