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Leicester

That was a lot of fun! Loving the production design and the music too. Couple of interesting points; 1) Tom Hiddleston is down as an executive producer, so he literally has a stake in this, 2) there are a lot of gaps in the end credits, a la FatWS, so there’s obviously a fair few “main” characters that are going to be introduced as we go along.

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I think my initial suspicion was right, it's Legends of Tomorrow with a higher budget and not as chaotic/funny.
   
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 Compel wrote:
I think my initial suspicion was right, it's Legends of Tomorrow with a higher budget and not as chaotic/funny.


Legends of Tomorrow sucks..... I hope this does not suck.

Opinions vary of course.

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A Protoss colony world

Watched it this evening, thought it was really good. Do we know how many episodes there will be?

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Six, according to Wikipedia, making it the shortest MCU TV show so far.

But as I said about WandaVision and FalconSoldier, I kind of appreciate the runs and episode lengths not being heavily standardised.

If you only need say, 6 hours to tell your tale, having to pad it out to 8 hours risks waffling and wimbriling (yeah, wimbriling) for no gain other than filling airtime,

Likewise, if a given episode only needs 40 minutes to cover its chapter, and the next could do with 55 minutes? Do that, because when shot for streaming you don’t need to worry about standardised airing slots the way conventional TV does.

The price there of course is no Bottle Episodes. Sure some can be filler, but others turn out to be the show at its best, because it has few ties to the main narrative, and might just throw up something which really captures the audience.

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Six Is awfully short. What’s the next Marvel offering after Loki and when’s it supposed to drop?

 
   
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 AduroT wrote:
Six Is awfully short. What’s the next Marvel offering after Loki and when’s it supposed to drop?


Apparently Ms. Marvel and Hawkeye are coming late 2021, and What if? Is in August this year, but by design that is only tenuously linked to the rest of the MCU

From Wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Marvel_Cinematic_Universe_television_series
   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Episode 1.

Spoiler:
A pretty hefty opener in my opinion. Solid recap on what came before without overly labouring things.

TVA is suitably shadowy for the time being. Just enough info given for the audience to get a handle on them, leaving plenty yet to be explained.

Drawers full of Infinity Stones, eh? Guess that happens when you blend multiverses into a single timeline. Interesting Loki pondered the Time Stone. I suspect that’s foreshadowing Dr Strange, who I think turns up in this eventually?

And which Loki is it causing them trouble? Are we seeing a non-Prime Loki as the hero?

Very very cool!


My best guess:

Spoiler:
They're prepping Loki as the villain of Dr. Strange 2, largely filling the role of Mephisto as a deceiver corrupting time in order to change his fate. The nice thing about this is you don't really have to watch the show to follow this. If you jump straight from Endgame the "villain is the evil Loki that got away and the plot is about dealing with the alternate reality that created" is not a hard leap to make regardless of what happens here. He'll probably destroy the Time Keepers by the end and likely the whole TVA.

Though I will say, he gave off a very Dr. Doom vibe in the end when we see what is assumed to be him. I've still got my fingers cross for a bit of a Rabum Alal teasing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/10 13:26:42


 
   
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 LunarSol wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Episode 1.

Spoiler:
A pretty hefty opener in my opinion. Solid recap on what came before without overly labouring things.

TVA is suitably shadowy for the time being. Just enough info given for the audience to get a handle on them, leaving plenty yet to be explained.

Drawers full of Infinity Stones, eh? Guess that happens when you blend multiverses into a single timeline. Interesting Loki pondered the Time Stone. I suspect that’s foreshadowing Dr Strange, who I think turns up in this eventually?

And which Loki is it causing them trouble? Are we seeing a non-Prime Loki as the hero?

Very very cool!


My best guess:

Spoiler:
They're prepping Loki as the villain of Dr. Strange 2, largely filling the role of Mephisto as a deceiver corrupting time in order to change his fate. The nice thing about this is you don't really have to watch the show to follow this. If you jump straight from Endgame the "villain is the evil Loki that got away and the plot is about dealing with the alternate reality that created" is not a hard leap to make regardless of what happens here. He'll probably destroy the Time Keepers by the end and likely the whole TVA.

Though I will say, he gave off a very Dr. Doom vibe in the end when we see what is assumed to be him. I've still got my fingers cross for a bit of a Rabum Alal teasing.




Spoiler:
Is the villain another variant Loki? Is it the future of this Loki? Is it even Loki? Is Loki playing the long game and his 'opening up' at the end of episode 1 just a step in manipulating Mobius? Is the Loki we're focusing on not actually the 'just got way' variant, but the fugitive killer from further down the timeline in a master play of sneakiness? Is he going to take control of the TVA, save Asgard, resurrect his mother, and then get back..... to the future?!
   
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Spoiler:
Is the villain another variant Loki? Is it the future of this Loki? Is it even Loki? Is Loki playing the long game and his 'opening up' at the end of episode 1 just a step in manipulating Mobius? Is the Loki we're focusing on not actually the 'just got way' variant, but the fugitive killer from further down the timeline in a master play of sneakiness? Is he going to take control of the TVA, save Asgard, resurrect his mother, and then get back..... to the future?!


Spoiler:
Roads? Where he's going, he doesn't need roads
   
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Let's say that I like the evil veneer of the TVA and this constant pruning the timeline like gardeners.

I don't like the concept (not a spoiler, it's the same of Infinity War) of the single timeline. I think it's bad, boring and I expect them to blow it away to leave space to the "Multiverse of Madness".

So, for me and from 1 episode, Loki is good for all the small things, and bad for all the big ones. Let's hope they improve moving forward (but the revelation immediately before the end made me really worried).

Time travel is stupid, so matched perfectly a silly series like Legend of Tomorrow. I'm worries that the underlying grandeur they seems to aim for will backlash on the end.
Hopeful for the best, prepared to the worst.

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 Graphite wrote:
Spoiler:
Is the villain another variant Loki? Is it the future of this Loki? Is it even Loki? Is Loki playing the long game and his 'opening up' at the end of episode 1 just a step in manipulating Mobius? Is the Loki we're focusing on not actually the 'just got way' variant, but the fugitive killer from further down the timeline in a master play of sneakiness? Is he going to take control of the TVA, save Asgard, resurrect his mother, and then get back..... to the future?!


Spoiler:
Roads? Where he's going, he doesn't need roads



I loved the first episode.

Spoiler:
It looks pretty much confirmed (thanks to leaked set photos) that Sophia Di Martino is playing Lady Loki. I would summise from this that the variant Loki is Lady Loki. Of course it's possible that there may be more than one variant. If you watch the "instructional" video about the TVA and variants, the character that goes "off timeline" ends up becoming 5 different variants. They all look different, but every one has the same bow tie somewhere in their design suggesting they are different but the same.

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Best bit about it, is Tom Hiddlestone flooding every scene with sheer charisma.

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It's a bit odd, but know what this is the perfect kind of show for the character and Loki is definitely a character that grows on you the more you watch him.

   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

But as I said about WandaVision and FalconSoldier, I kind of appreciate the runs and episode lengths not being heavily standardised.

If you only need say, 6 hours to tell your tale, having to pad it out to 8 hours risks waffling and wimbriling (yeah, wimbriling) for no gain other than filling airtime,

Agreed. I quite like this approach, using the streaming series to tell stories that don't fit into the movies. The length of those stories is really less important than getting the story right, and if that only takes 6 episodes, then so be it.

It would be different if they were only producing one 6-episode series a year... but with the amount of content on the way (I'm particularly looking forward to 'What if...') there should be no shortage of things to watch.



In vaguely related news, I just went back and rewatched Thor: Ragnarok the other day. I'm thinking this is by far the best superhero movie made to date. It's the perfect blend of crazy, over-the-top hero stuff, whimsical silliness, and pretty cinematography. And the soundtrack rocks. Really looking forward to Love and Thunder.

 
   
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I think Ragnarok has a Slight bit too much humor, but not like enough to ruin the movie. Like I think Korg butts in with stupidness a couple times when it should have been left to a somber moment. Otherwise yeah Ragnarok is quite good and I’m curious to see where they go with Love and Thunder.

 
   
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I think Korg’s humour served a purpose, something to remind the heroes this is about More Than Them, that there’s more going on than an overblown family squabble.

As for Loki…

Spoiler:
It strikes me that for the timeline to be maintained, the Tesseract has to be returned to post-invasion. Steve has to return it to the army base, so in order for it to turn up on Asgard again, it has to end up in Thor’s hands a fairly short time after Loki nicked off.

This suggest that the End Game time shenanigans are the prime timeline. And the Loki we see from Thor 2 onwards is the same Loki in the TV show. So by the end, he returns or is returned to New York.

That actually fits a certain learning curve, where he goes from twice villain to a more sympathetic anti-hero. His trashed cell could be less frustration at a Prince of Asgard being imprisoned, and more “it’s all coming true, and there’s nothing I can do to stop it”.

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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I think Korg’s humour served a purpose, something to remind the heroes this is about More Than Them, that there’s more going on than an overblown family squabble.

As for Loki…

Spoiler:
It strikes me that for the timeline to be maintained, the Tesseract has to be returned to post-invasion. Steve has to return it to the army base, so in order for it to turn up on Asgard again, it has to end up in Thor’s hands a fairly short time after Loki nicked off.

This suggest that the End Game time shenanigans are the prime timeline. And the Loki we see from Thor 2 onwards is the same Loki in the TV show. So by the end, he returns or is returned to New York.

That actually fits a certain learning curve, where he goes from twice villain to a more sympathetic anti-hero. His trashed cell could be less frustration at a Prince of Asgard being imprisoned, and more “it’s all coming true, and there’s nothing I can do to stop it”.


Hmm. Flowchart time!
   
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Thinking further…

Spoiler:
Wibbly Wobbly, Timey Wimey stuff even suggests that Loki need only be present for the important stuff.

So whilst he will have to return and be imprisoned, getting the Tesseract to the right place at the right time, there’s relatively little to say he then has to remain. The TVA could come grab him on and off when they need his assistance.

His death in End Game? Put one of those Time Twister doohickeys on his person (I don’t see why it would need to be on his neck), wait for Thanos to clear off, erase and rewind and you’ve got your Loki back.

Ahhh. Time travel.




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In theory the first episode of Loki destroyed the Endgame timeline already. The court said the Avengers were supposed to do their time travel thing, only Loki wasn’t supposed to have escaped, that was the divergence. After they apprehended the escaped Loki, they set off one of those little divergent timeline destroying bomb things. So like, the divergent timeline where Loki escaped, and gave us the movie we saw, has Already been wiped out, and another one exists where the time heist went according to plan without the extra detour to the army base?

 
   
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*insert Scanner’s head explosion gif here*

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No, Endgame still would have happened (because it was supposed to) , just in a timeline where Loki didn't escape.

 
   
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Yup. At this point this Loki is a variant who has no proper time line to return to.

What I am curious about is Who the "dangerous" variant Loki is. Where did he split off from?



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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 AduroT wrote:
In theory the first episode of Loki destroyed the Endgame timeline already. The court said the Avengers were supposed to do their time travel thing, only Loki wasn’t supposed to have escaped, that was the divergence. After they apprehended the escaped Loki, they set off one of those little divergent timeline destroying bomb things. So like, the divergent timeline where Loki escaped, and gave us the movie we saw, has Already been wiped out, and another one exists where the time heist went according to plan without the extra detour to the army base?


But then would Steve have felt compelled to return to the past and live out a 'normal' life? Would Tony been ready to make the sacrifice if he hadn't had that talk with his father? Doctor Strange had scanned all the possible timelines and discovered they only succeeded in one. But now there are two? The 'real' one and the divergent one where Loki escaped?

Time for a cup of tea.

I just jotted down a potted history of the Teseract and have concluded it is not the Infinity Stone of Power, but of Theft. It's key function in the MCU is to be stolen by someone. Usually Loki.

   
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MarkNorfolk wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
In theory the first episode of Loki destroyed the Endgame timeline already. The court said the Avengers were supposed to do their time travel thing, only Loki wasn’t supposed to have escaped, that was the divergence. After they apprehended the escaped Loki, they set off one of those little divergent timeline destroying bomb things. So like, the divergent timeline where Loki escaped, and gave us the movie we saw, has Already been wiped out, and another one exists where the time heist went according to plan without the extra detour to the army base?


But then would Steve have felt compelled to return to the past and live out a 'normal' life? Would Tony been ready to make the sacrifice if he hadn't had that talk with his father? Doctor Strange had scanned all the possible timelines and discovered they only succeeded in one. But now there are two? The 'real' one and the divergent one where Loki escaped?

Time for a cup of tea.

I just jotted down a potted history of the Teseract and have concluded it is not the Infinity Stone of Power, but of Theft. It's key function in the MCU is to be stolen by someone. Usually Loki.



Power was in the Guardians of the Galaxy Orb. Teseract is Space.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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 Lance845 wrote:
MarkNorfolk wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
In theory the first episode of Loki destroyed the Endgame timeline already. The court said the Avengers were supposed to do their time travel thing, only Loki wasn’t supposed to have escaped, that was the divergence. After they apprehended the escaped Loki, they set off one of those little divergent timeline destroying bomb things. So like, the divergent timeline where Loki escaped, and gave us the movie we saw, has Already been wiped out, and another one exists where the time heist went according to plan without the extra detour to the army base?


But then would Steve have felt compelled to return to the past and live out a 'normal' life? Would Tony been ready to make the sacrifice if he hadn't had that talk with his father? Doctor Strange had scanned all the possible timelines and discovered they only succeeded in one. But now there are two? The 'real' one and the divergent one where Loki escaped?

Time for a cup of tea.

I just jotted down a potted history of the Teseract and have concluded it is not the Infinity Stone of Power, but of Theft. It's key function in the MCU is to be stolen by someone. Usually Loki.



Power was in the Guardians of the Galaxy Orb. Teseract is Space.


D'oh!
   
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Point of potential interest.

Spoiler:
Right now, we the viewer don’t actually know anything about the TVA, other than what the TVA have told Loki.

And that includes their reset devices.

Given their agents are described as having been made, it could be the whole thing is just a big old fakeycake. And there is no divine timeline type stuff,

It could be the reset devices do precisely nothing, expect possibly kill those nearby. After all, we’ve only seen the one in action, and it cut away before we could see the affect it has.

Certainly I’m not currently buying it being even remotely benevolent.

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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Point of potential interest.

Spoiler:
Right now, we the viewer don’t actually know anything about the TVA, other than what the TVA have told Loki.

And that includes their reset devices.

Given their agents are described as having been made, it could be the whole thing is just a big old fakeycake. And there is no divine timeline type stuff,

It could be the reset devices do precisely nothing, expect possibly kill those nearby. After all, we’ve only seen the one in action, and it cut away before we could see the affect it has.

Certainly I’m not currently buying it being even remotely benevolent.


Spoiler:
Oh certainly not benevolent. Loki points it out: no self determination? Or least only permitted self-determination? People are erased for leaving the preferred timeline - killed for being in the wrong time and place (literally). Is that really a definition of guilty? And who decides what the right timeline is anyway? It's all a bit suss. Just because you're hunting a killer and have an ex-boyfriend/girlfriend thing going on with a fellow arbitrator of what you deem to be the right path doesn't make you a good guy.
   
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Spoiler:
Something else to consider- perhaps it isn't even that Loki escaped, but where and when he escaped to. As others have pointed out, those Mongolian looking folks (which sounds way more racist than I mean to be) nomadic huntergatherers after Loki crashes can't understand him- which is the first time we've seen any of the 9 realm hopping Asgardians encounter a language barrier. Perhaps because he didn't go to anywhere, or anywhen, within the 9 realms. That was the aberration, something (probably future Loki) disrupted the way the Tesseract normally functions. It's never dumped anybody out in the middle of the sky before, after all. So perhaps- it isn't that he escaped, but where he escaped to.

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It could also be that Loki wasnt meant to escape but the tesseract was.
Could also be that they are all lying and the Tara Strong cartoon lied about everything and the TVA is just full of weirdos and liars.

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