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At least you can convert it easily with the plastics. But yeah I know what you mean, I was hoping they would at least do a male and female version.

Ah, yes, true. Didn't think of that. Between the Wyches, Warriors and the Raider crew, making an Archon shouldn't be all that difficult.

I'm late-- have they said anything about a new Battleforce box or is it just individual unit releases?

nope nothing yet.. but one should assume that with the overhaul they'd have one.
Battleforces are just box set sprues under one roof anyway, cant be that difficult.

I bought the old one 2 weeks ago just in case the new one has 10 warriors, 3rjbs and some jungle trees.
They're blu-tac'd waiting for the new bits to spruce them up a bit! Pre-orders are up Tuesday so maybe we'll have confirmation then?

Are battleforces always part of 1st wave? and do they pre-order?

A little while after. Not an initial release. I could be wrong though. Also, if the release is a month from October 5. I believe the black boxes and codex should be in store next week as well. That stuff has always been pretty reliable, arriving one month out from release. Here is to hoping!

I never liked that raiders were through away transports, it doesn't suit the fluff at all. Considering that they are piratical raiders who need to get in and out fast.... Getting in fast only to have your escape transport destroyed immediately always seemed kinda silly, how are they getting home with all those slaves, chain gangs!?!?! Ha ha...

Just some food for thought.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:I think the issue with T values above 6 is CC,though. Most units have access to some type of grenades so they at least have some chance against a Walker in CC. However,T7 makes a model completely invulnerable in CC against models with Strength 3 and T8 puts it out of the range of models with S4. You can just assault a MC with T7+ into a lot of units and off 1-2 models per Assault phase until the unit finally breaks and there's absolutely no way the unit in question can harm it.

And how is that a bad thing? Most wimpy dudes have Transports that outrun every T7+ MC I can think of.

Also, those Grenades only work on 6s, so not so awesome.

The Deceiver is also the only T7+ beastie I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't have a ranged weapon or is capable of taking a ranged weapon powerful enough to Stun,Immobolize,or Destroy said transport.

Another issue is that with Apocalypse and GW more formally embracing giant size mini's,it's very hard to justify in terms of scale a Talos or Wraithlord having T7-8 when something like a Hierophant Bio-Titan is T9.

Grenades are not terribly effective against walkers,but they at least give the unit a chance. The combat is not already decided before it even starts. 40k is a game built around an element of chance to enhance most people's enjoyment of the game. That's why there are dice rolls involved to include a random element that enriches the game. Every player has had their share of experience where the completely improbable happens because of die luck,be it the last Scout left in a unit taking the last wound off a Demon Prince or a lone Sergeant who's squad is toast managing to survive 2-3 assault phases against long odds to contest an objective. T7-8 removes that,and turns it more into chess with custom painted and extremely expensive pieces.

The thing is, T7 is Far more "powerful" than T6 and T8 doubly so, for the simple reason that T7 ignores S3 and T8 ignores S4.

Whatever1 wrote:Another issue is that with Apocalypse and GW more formally embracing giant size mini's,it's very hard to justify in terms of scale a Talos or Wraithlord having T7-8 when something like a Hierophant Bio-Titan is T9.

Grenades are not terribly effective against walkers,but they at least give the unit a chance. The combat is not already decided before it even starts.

40k is a game built around an element of chance to enhance most people's enjoyment of the game.

Nids aren't Eldar tough, much less Necron tough. Deal with it.

And yet, so much else is. The model is more than X" away = ZERO chance to shoot / charge. Tank shock regular IG armed only with Lasguns. Why shouldn't uber models just grind away? And who knows, maybe the MC whiffs and they just stare at each other.

Odd. I though 40k was built around tactics.

Gwar! wrote:The thing is, T7 is Far more "powerful" than T6 and T8 doubly so, for the simple reason that T7 ignores S3 and T8 ignores S4.

And? S8 wounds T8 on a 4+ and damages AV12 on a 4+. But T8 can be wounded by S5. AV12 cannot be damaged by anything less than S6.

I don't see the problem with high toughness models.

There isnt really a problem.. People just flip out at high toughness models but shrug at high AV models

Wraithlord has been a supbar unit since 4th edition, T8 or otherwise

Since before 4th Ed. Since the TAR came out.

The only thing the WL was ever good for was punching out powerfist sarges. And it was pretty good at that! And it could carry a starcannon too, woo. With those two capacities uber-nerfed... not so hot any more.

Living beasties are better as you can pop a LR with one rail gun shot but a wraithlord can hang around due to wounds. But of course can be IK-ed by force weapons etc.

It's about balance. Personally I don't get the whole 'lots of mech' 'meta' as I'd be more afraid of 3 wraithlords than 3 tanks.

Anyway OT: The raider might be something like 60-70 points but might get the nightfield as part of that - something like the tau obscured if more than 12" away thing. That would account for the 'invunerable' save. They might just give it a flat invunerable save but I doubt it as that would be paving the way for vehicles to have 'saves' which seems a bit pointless and looks towards a trend of re-overpowering vehicles.
Also we might see a cheaper more effective way of delivering a WW portal... it was 50 points, and the unit had to stay still for a turn which was a bit naff. Perhaps instead of shooting although that might break it - zoom 24"+2"disembark+ww = WW in enemy deployment zone?

Shall we try and stay on the topic of Dark Eldar?

I guess we will see the pics of all the minis from the November release next Tuesday. I mean, if preorders are available that day, I guess they will put pics of all the products!

Does somebody know if GW has finished with the articles on DE design in the website? Yesterday they didn't say anything about DE, I would have expected a couple of articles more.

kanelom wrote:nope nothing yet.. but one should assume that with the overhaul they'd have one.
Battleforces are just box set sprues under one roof anyway, cant be that difficult.

I bought the old one 2 weeks ago just in case the new one has 10 warriors, 3rjbs and some jungle trees.
They're blu-tac'd waiting for the new bits to spruce them up a bit! Pre-orders are up Tuesday so maybe we'll have confirmation then?

Are battleforces always part of 1st wave? and do they pre-order?

I don't know about always, but I do know that the Space Wolf Battleforce was available for pre-order with everything else. I would think this would be the same.

I'm guessing there will be more when they go up on the advance order page...I hope so, anyway. What they've shown off so far is good, but four plastic boxes and a couple of blisters isn't really enough to build a lot of different armies with.

Was there a blood angels battleforce? Someone told me that GW was ending the whole battleforce thing.

No there wasn't one. They don't cost much more to produce, and are an easy way to start an army. So I don't know why they would stop doing them. Random.

Oshova

I cant wait!

The new plastics will be perfect for an Exodite army...

Now, to play them as 'counts as' Dark Eldar or Craftwrld... decisions, decisions...

chaos0xomega wrote:Was there a blood angels battleforce? Someone told me that GW was ending the whole battleforce thing.

No there wasn't, and what you heard sounds horrible enough to be true. Though I would think that for an army that hasn't been reworked in over a decade, they would almost feel obligated to make a big deal about it and release a battleforce in order to get people interested.

Oshova wrote:So I don't know why they would stop doing them. Random.

Because they make more money by making you buy each unit individually.

Then again you wonder why the hell they bothered making battleforces in the first place, since they've always wanted more money and usually do whatever they can to get it.

beezley1981 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Was there a blood angels battleforce? Someone told me that GW was ending the whole battleforce thing.

No there wasn't, and what you heard sounds horrible enough to be true. Though I would think that for an army that hasn't been reworked in over a decade, they would almost feel obligated to make a big deal about it and release a battleforce in order to get people interested.

but.... profits... They make more money off the individual box sales, they lose profits in battle forces comparatively. So I'm going with your going to see a rapid drop in battleforces as lines are updated... It's more profitable to charge you 150-200$ instead of 110$.

That's assuming people bother buying it at $150-200.

This is one of the reasons why they fail so hard, you never underestimate the power of a discount. Even something small like 10-15% is enough to tempt someone to part with money they otherwise wouldn't have.

battle force is a way to sell otherwise usless units.

I want a dark eldar megaforce!!!! That would be amazing

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:I want a dark eldar megaforce!!!! That would be amazing

what the hell would you put in it? There aren't enough 'big' models that could fill up a megaforce. Look at the chaos one. A defiler, a land raider, a terminator unit, 2 rhinos, 2 units of CSM and a terminator lord. I think there's more also.

There's really no DE equivalent to that, except possibly 5 raiders, 2 ravagers,a talos, 4 warrior units and some other stuff. Although that IS a good idea, it doesn't really warrant a megaforce.

The Wych/Mandrake is definately a Wych, however, I'd use it as a (wo)mandrake.

Only one bad thing about the new codex: my school library now has no up to date GW books.

Oh well, the Dark Eldar needed a new codex.

Draggoon wrote:

beezley1981 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Was there a blood angels battleforce? Someone told me that GW was ending the whole battleforce thing.

No there wasn't, and what you heard sounds horrible enough to be true. Though I would think that for an army that hasn't been reworked in over a decade, they would almost feel obligated to make a big deal about it and release a battleforce in order to get people interested.

but.... profits... They make more money off the individual box sales, they lose profits in battle forces comparatively. So I'm going with your going to see a rapid drop in battleforces as lines are updated... It's more profitable to charge you 150-200$ instead of 110$.

Well yea, but them selling you a battleforce for $90 is like a drug dealer giving you a 'break' the first time you buy something with him. They do it to get you hooked, then once you need your fix (something not in the battleforce) they hit you with a $60 price tag on some vehicle model that only cost them $.30 to make. Make no mistake, Games Workshop is the crack dealer of the miniature nerd model world.