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 Steel-W0LF wrote:

 Gloomfang wrote:

 Steel-W0LF wrote:
I must be missing something.....

I keep seeing people say Rippers are decent out of synapse because they have Fearless.

Nothing in the "Feed" rules care about Fearless. Some of the other Instinctive Behavior tables do, but feed makes no mention of Fearless.

Rippers outside of Synapse will eat each other unless I'm mistaken?

They are decent out of synapse because if they fail a Feed test it doesn't wipe out half your unit (hormagaunts). Mindless was a much worse version of Feed and they don't have that.

The fearless helps because it means they can still tarpit outside synapse. Other gaunts will break and run outside of synapse now.

Feed out of Synapse means 50% of the time they attack themselves.... they do the same thing Hormagaunts do... kill each other.

Hormagaunts are 1 wound models. Rippers have 3. Feed affects the model count of horms far more than rippers.

 tetrisphreak wrote:


Hormagaunts are 1 wound models. Rippers have 3. Feed affects the model count of horms far more than rippers.

That was my point.
For example: 12 hormagaunts in a unit your looking at 5 dead hormagaunts. That forces a moral check as they just lost 25% in the movement phase.

compared to 6 ripper bases:
They do 3 wounds and you get to take your +6sv. The owning player gets allocate the wounds so I put one on each model. I loose no models and even if I decided to put them all on one model I would probably just loose one (I might do that if one is out of cover or to make sure that I have the unit positioned how I want.) Even if loosing that model dropped me below 25% I don't care because I am fearless.

Yes fearless has little to due with IB:Feed, but they are much better out of synapse then the gaunts.

Working on a 1999 list (my group doesn't want to play double force org) and this is what I came up with so far. Thoughts?

1 Hive Tyrant w/ wings, 2 twin linked devourers with brainleech, hive commander

3 Venomthrope
2 Zoanthrope
2 Hiveguard

30 Termagaunt w/ spinefists
3 Warriors w/ scything talons and devourer
3 Warriors w/ scything talons and devourer
6 Genestealers +1 Broodlord

14 Gargoyles
1 Harpy
1 Harpy

1 Tyrannofex w/ regeneration
1 Trygon
1 Exocrine w/ regeneration

1998pts

14 units
4 troops
6 MC
71 models
3 flyers

Idea is to push forward with everything, using the venomthropes + gargoyles to help with cover while using the Tyrant, Broodlord and 2 harpies to try to pin units down and help limit damage on the first turn. The termagaunts will outflank and try to get an annoying shooting attack on a backfield infantry unit.

Personally, i think the new dataslates should be tested ...

Tyranid Prime, Devourer, Scything Talons, The Norn Crown 165
Tyranid Prime, Reaper of Obliterax, Scything Talons, Flesh Hooks 175

Venomthrope 45
Zoanthrope 50
Zoanthrope 50

20 Termagants 80
20 Termagants 80
30 Termagants 120
Tervigon 195

2x Hive Crone 340

Hive fleet Leviathan Vanguard Gargoyle Bio-Bomb Formation 450
3x 20 Gargoyle Broods (120 each)
3x 6 Spore Mine Clusters (30 each)

This list trys to address synapse ( Prime in each termagant squad), has some AA, and will completely swamp the enemy in models. Try to prevent the list from closing. It will be nightmare to play against for some armies.

Being able to take gargoyles and still have the slots for 4-5 FMCs is really the best thing I see about these formations.

Steel-W0LF wrote:I must be missing something.....

I keep seeing people say Rippers are decent out of synapse because they have Fearless.

Nothing in the "Feed" rules care about Fearless. Some of the other Instinctive Behavior tables do, but feed makes no mention of Fearless.

Rippers outside of Synapse will eat each other unless I'm mistaken?

Additionally to what others have said, they easily operate independently in while locked in combat as there are no IB tests while a unit is in CC and fearless means they won't ever fall back. If the combat is likely to go on several turns you can feel free to move on with your synapse creatures until it looks like it might end soon or just forget about them entirely if there's more pressing matters that require your attention. They're just rippers after all.
Opponent didn't put any high strength CC weapons on his 5 man terminator squad? Well they can spend the rest of the game getting gnawed on by rippers. No baby sitting required.

 Gloomfang wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:


Hormagaunts are 1 wound models. Rippers have 3. Feed affects the model count of horms far more than rippers.

That was my point.
For example: 12 hormagaunts in a unit your looking at 5 dead hormagaunts. That forces a moral check as they just lost 25% in the movement phase.

compared to 6 ripper bases:
They do 3 wounds and you get to take your +6sv. The owning player gets allocate the wounds so I put one on each model. I loose no models and even if I decided to put them all on one model I would probably just loose one (I might do that if one is out of cover or to make sure that I have the unit positioned how I want.) Even if loosing that model dropped me below 25% I don't care because I am fearless.

Yes fearless has little to due with IB:Feed, but they are much better out of synapse then the gaunts.

Ahh ok I see what your saying.

That makes a lot more sense.

omerakk wrote:
Working on a 1999 list (my group doesn't want to play double force org) and this is what I came up with so far. Thoughts?

1 Hive Tyrant w/ wings, 2 twin linked devourers with brainleech, hive commander

3 Venomthrope
2 Zoanthrope
2 Hiveguard

30 Termagaunt w/ spinefists
3 Warriors w/ scything talons and devourer
3 Warriors w/ scything talons and devourer
6 Genestealers +1 Broodlord

14 Gargoyles
1 Harpy
1 Harpy

1 Tyrannofex w/ regeneration
1 Trygon
1 Exocrine w/ regeneration

1998pts

14 units
4 troops
6 MC
71 models
3 flyers

Idea is to push forward with everything, using the venomthropes + gargoyles to help with cover while using the Tyrant, Broodlord and 2 harpies to try to pin units down and help limit damage on the first turn. The termagaunts will outflank and try to get an annoying shooting attack on a backfield infantry unit.

Ok, here are my thoughts:

1. Try to fit in 1 more dakka flyrant if you can.

2. Why 2 units of warriors? They don't do anything for the list but to hold the backfield. Personally, I would swap out both units of warriors for a tervigon. No matter how nerfed he may have been, he is still superior IMO because of psychic powers and the ability to generate more troops.

3. If you don't run a tervigon, I'd recommend breaking up your unit of 30-gants into 3x10 gants.

4. Why 6 genestealers? Just go 5 stealers + broodlord.

5. You don't have much in the way of ranged AT. Give at least 1 of your harpies TL-HVC.

6. If you need the extra points (i.e. say, for the 2nd flyrant), you can drop the regen's on your TMC's. More big bugs > big bugs with regen.


So this is my recommended changes:

1 Hive Tyrant w/ wings, 2 twin linked devourers with brainleech
1 Hive Tyrant w/ wings, 2 twin linked devourers with brainleech

2 Venomthrope
2 Zoanthrope
2 Hiveguard

10 Termagaunt w/ spinefists
10 Termagaunt w/ spinefists
10 Termagaunt w/ spinefists
3 Warriors w/ scything talons and devourer
5 Genestealers +1 Broodlord

15 Gargoyles
1 Harpy - TH-HVC
1 Harpy

1 Tyrannofex
1 Trygon
1 Exocrine

2K


-------------------------------------------------------


Hey guys!

This thread has grown a little more rapidly than I am able to address many of the things here. Between testing out the new bugs, writing battle reports as well as preparing for a large tournament coming up (the LVO), I haven't had as much time to respond to this thread.

If there is anything you'd like my input on - whether it be from the new dataslates, how to play certain units/combos or lists that you want me to critique - just drop me a PM instead. I may not get to it right away, but I eventually will in a couple of days.


jy2

 jy2 wrote:

omerakk wrote:
Working on a 1999 list (my group doesn't want to play double force org) and this is what I came up with so far. Thoughts?

1 Hive Tyrant w/ wings, 2 twin linked devourers with brainleech, hive commander

3 Venomthrope
2 Zoanthrope
2 Hiveguard

30 Termagaunt w/ spinefists
3 Warriors w/ scything talons and devourer
3 Warriors w/ scything talons and devourer
6 Genestealers +1 Broodlord

14 Gargoyles
1 Harpy
1 Harpy

1 Tyrannofex w/ regeneration
1 Trygon
1 Exocrine w/ regeneration

1998pts

14 units
4 troops
6 MC
71 models
3 flyers

Idea is to push forward with everything, using the venomthropes + gargoyles to help with cover while using the Tyrant, Broodlord and 2 harpies to try to pin units down and help limit damage on the first turn. The termagaunts will outflank and try to get an annoying shooting attack on a backfield infantry unit.

Ok, here are my thoughts:

1. Try to fit in 1 more dakka flyrant if you can.

2. Why 2 units of warriors? They don't do anything for the list but to hold the backfield. Personally, I would swap out both units of warriors for a tervigon. No matter how nerfed he may have been, he is still superior IMO because of psychic powers and the ability to generate more troops.

3. If you don't run a tervigon, I'd recommend breaking up your unit of 30-gants into 3x10 gants.

4. Why 6 genestealers? Just go 5 stealers + broodlord.

5. You don't have much in the way of ranged AT. Give at least 1 of your harpies TL-HVC.

6. If you need the extra points (i.e. say, for the 2nd flyrant), you can drop the regen's on your TMC's. More big bugs > big bugs with regen.


So this is my recommended changes:

1 Hive Tyrant w/ wings, 2 twin linked devourers with brainleech
1 Hive Tyrant w/ wings, 2 twin linked devourers with brainleech

2 Venomthrope
2 Zoanthrope
2 Hiveguard

10 Termagaunt w/ spinefists
10 Termagaunt w/ spinefists
10 Termagaunt w/ spinefists
3 Warriors w/ scything talons and devourer
5 Genestealers +1 Broodlord

15 Gargoyles
1 Harpy - TH-HVC
1 Harpy

1 Tyrannofex
1 Trygon
1 Exocrine

2K

jy2,
While I defer to you as a more experienced player, I disagree mildly with some of your advice.

1) In my opinion you shouldn't ever run warriors (90 pts) without paying for a heavy weapon (10 pts). They are usually going to be out of range of devourers, but at least a Barbed Strangler gives them something to do while sitting on an objective, or hiding behind the rest of your army.
2) The Broodlord is both expensive and only situationally useful, because many units can't be pinned. Genesteelers are not an effective combat unit, they are an objective holder that can outflank with a leadership 10 (so lack of synapse is less problematic), so keeping them as cheap as possible is the way to go. Spending any more than 70 pts on them feels like a waste.
3) Harpies are made for the HVC. Stranglethorn Cannon is for Carnifexes. If you can hit where you want with a small blast it is going to do nearly as much damage as a large blast. The large blast is preferable mainly to mitigate inaccurate fire.
4) Mawloc is more useful and cheaper than Trygon.
5) I've never seen Tyrannofex make back its points. My opponents recognize that he is tough to kill so they target squishier things first, and his damage output is low compared to other heavy support options (Carnifexes, Biovores)
6) I feel like taking advantage of synergy is huge.
A) Bastion + Venom = More shrouded range that is AV14
B) Bastion + Flyrant = Alpha strike survival
C) Comms Relay + Mawloc = reliable Mawloc
D) Comms Relay + Harpy = useful FMC in reserves.
E) Comms Relay + Genestealers = Genestealers arriving later thus more survivable.

So instead of your suggestion, I would look for something more like this.

1 Hive Tyrant w/ wings, 2 twin linked devourers with brainleech (230)
1 Hive Tyrant w/ wings, 2 twin linked devourers with brainleech (230)

1 Venomthrope (45)
2 Zoanthrope (100)
2 Hiveguard (110)

10 Termagaunt w/ spinefists (40)
10 Termagaunt w/ spinefists (40)
10 Termagaunt w/ spinefists (40)
10 Termagaunt w/ spinefists (40)
3 Warriors w/ scything talons and devourer + 1 Barbed Strangler (100)
5 Genestealers (70)

25 Gargoyles (150)
1 Harpy w/ HVC (140)
1 Harpy w/ HVC (140)

3 Biovore (120)
1 Mawloc (140)
1 Exocrine (170)

1 Bastion + Comms Relay (95)

Maybe I've changed the original list too much to honor the original poster.

Hello all!

What's everyones thoughts on the Prime and Norn Crown? I initially had discarded both I admit. The Prime due to points increase and the Crown due to cost. However, in a Bastion build do you think it has merits? I was originally planning on a Bastion with Venomthrope inside and a Zoanthrope behind it... But, watching BatReps has pointed out that a SMS from Tau (sigh) can kill a Zoanthrope with ease. So, perhaps hiding the Synapse in the Bastion would help, but I have no doubt that the Venomthrope MUST also be in there. Only a Prime can do this, and is much costlier than a Zoantrhope casting Dominion. (In double Force Organization, it is cheaper to use a Bastion for the Zoanthrope and a separate one for the Venomthrope than to buy a Prime.

So, do you think the Norn-crown Prime is worth it next to a Zoanthrope? I just struggle to justify it. In single Force Org, Dual Flyrants are just a must. In Double Force Org, instead of a Prime with Norn Crown you could take a Zoanthrope, a second Bastion, and a Biovore for the EXACT same points... that just seems better to me.

 jifel wrote:
Hello all!

What's everyones thoughts on the Prime and Norn Crown? I initially had discarded both I admit. The Prime due to points increase and the Crown due to cost. However, in a Bastion build do you think it has merits? I was originally planning on a Bastion with Venomthrope inside and a Zoanthrope behind it... But, watching BatReps has pointed out that a SMS from Tau (sigh) can kill a Zoanthrope with ease. So, perhaps hiding the Synapse in the Bastion would help, but I have no doubt that the Venomthrope MUST also be in there. Only a Prime can do this, and is much costlier than a Zoantrhope casting Dominion. (In double Force Organization, it is cheaper to use a Bastion for the Zoanthrope and a separate one for the Venomthrope than to buy a Prime.

So, do you think the Norn-crown Prime is worth it next to a Zoanthrope? I just struggle to justify it. In single Force Org, Dual Flyrants are just a must. In Double Force Org, instead of a Prime with Norn Crown you could take a Zoanthrope, a second Bastion, and a Biovore for the EXACT same points... that just seems better to me.

For the cost of the Prime with Norn Crown, you could get a bare-bones Tyrant, right? With ML2, you can switch out for Dominion and basically have the Norn Crown itself. Hiding in the bastion does have merits, however, but seems a bit costly. I think the Zoey with Dominion is a better purchase if you are going the bastion route.

rollawaythestone wrote:

 jifel wrote:
Hello all!

What's everyones thoughts on the Prime and Norn Crown? I initially had discarded both I admit. The Prime due to points increase and the Crown due to cost. However, in a Bastion build do you think it has merits? I was originally planning on a Bastion with Venomthrope inside and a Zoanthrope behind it... But, watching BatReps has pointed out that a SMS from Tau (sigh) can kill a Zoanthrope with ease. So, perhaps hiding the Synapse in the Bastion would help, but I have no doubt that the Venomthrope MUST also be in there. Only a Prime can do this, and is much costlier than a Zoantrhope casting Dominion. (In double Force Organization, it is cheaper to use a Bastion for the Zoanthrope and a separate one for the Venomthrope than to buy a Prime.

So, do you think the Norn-crown Prime is worth it next to a Zoanthrope? I just struggle to justify it. In single Force Org, Dual Flyrants are just a must. In Double Force Org, instead of a Prime with Norn Crown you could take a Zoanthrope, a second Bastion, and a Biovore for the EXACT same points... that just seems better to me.

For the cost of the Prime with Norn Crown, you could get a bare-bones Tyrant, right? With ML2, you can switch out for Dominion and basically have the Norn Crown itself. Hiding in the bastion does have merits, however, but seems a bit costly. I think the Zoey with Dominion is a better purchase if you are going the bastion route.

The pros of a Norncrown Prime are it's synapse and that it can hide. But if I'm already buying one Bastion... why not two? Hide ALL my FLyrants out of LoS, and all sorts of fun!

 jifel wrote:
Hello all!

What's everyones thoughts on the Prime and Norn Crown? I initially had discarded both I admit. The Prime due to points increase and the Crown due to cost. However, in a Bastion build do you think it has merits? I was originally planning on a Bastion with Venomthrope inside and a Zoanthrope behind it... But, watching BatReps has pointed out that a SMS from Tau (sigh) can kill a Zoanthrope with ease. So, perhaps hiding the Synapse in the Bastion would help, but I have no doubt that the Venomthrope MUST also be in there. Only a Prime can do this, and is much costlier than a Zoantrhope casting Dominion. (In double Force Organization, it is cheaper to use a Bastion for the Zoanthrope and a separate one for the Venomthrope than to buy a Prime.

So, do you think the Norn-crown Prime is worth it next to a Zoanthrope? I just struggle to justify it. In single Force Org, Dual Flyrants are just a must. In Double Force Org, instead of a Prime with Norn Crown you could take a Zoanthrope, a second Bastion, and a Biovore for the EXACT same points... that just seems better to me.

There is a really good list with two primes that Felixcat showed me. Primes are very cool. They were my favorite in the last codex for HQ's but no one ever fielded them. they are probably going to now.

 Jancoran wrote:

 jifel wrote:
Hello all!

What's everyones thoughts on the Prime and Norn Crown? I initially had discarded both I admit. The Prime due to points increase and the Crown due to cost. However, in a Bastion build do you think it has merits? I was originally planning on a Bastion with Venomthrope inside and a Zoanthrope behind it... But, watching BatReps has pointed out that a SMS from Tau (sigh) can kill a Zoanthrope with ease. So, perhaps hiding the Synapse in the Bastion would help, but I have no doubt that the Venomthrope MUST also be in there. Only a Prime can do this, and is much costlier than a Zoantrhope casting Dominion. (In double Force Organization, it is cheaper to use a Bastion for the Zoanthrope and a separate one for the Venomthrope than to buy a Prime.

So, do you think the Norn-crown Prime is worth it next to a Zoanthrope? I just struggle to justify it. In single Force Org, Dual Flyrants are just a must. In Double Force Org, instead of a Prime with Norn Crown you could take a Zoanthrope, a second Bastion, and a Biovore for the EXACT same points... that just seems better to me.

There is a really good list with two primes that Felixcat showed me. Primes are very cool. They were my favorite in the last codex for HQ's but no one ever fielded them. they are probably going to now.

Care to share? I feel like Flyrants are just too valuable to miss out on.

I wont steal his thunder. the essence though is that they are IC's, Synapse and their bubble wrap units are dirty dirt cheap, and for that pivotal 1st 2 rounds, likely to be Shrouded and Primes are pretty cool in that they can just switch bubble wraps when they need to. So you shoot at one, weaken it. he jumps to the other and charges. Challenge ensues. After the challenge, if the unit doesn't win, it probably finishes its prey the next round, just in time to charge again.

Another interesting play is the tervigon which can essentially spew out more bubble wrap for them if it wants to. Alternately, the Prime can split and charge if the target looks like he can take it in a couple phases, while the rest of the unit does its thing.

What could be important also is that there WILL be more fire on those wraps and ergo possibly less on the Venomthropes and other units. The threat of letting a Prime get there is fairly significant. That defends the rest of the army a little better in the way of keeping them shrouded longer.

Just some thoughts.

This is getting really long. Might it be time to start a part 2 or something?

You are not stealing my thunder Jancoren. You are the go-to guy when I design lists as you know. And that is a pretty good summary. Bear in ind that the Primes should be able to handle themselves well in cc. Rending is a big plus on them and you can go for more expensive upgrades. A lot depends on the list itself. Getting through ablative wounds to knock out your synapse is a pita. And everyone I've played goes for the synapse guys first. This gives my other support units more freedom - very dangerous when its a miasmic Trygon Prime and a Mawloc.

These types of lists rely heavily on a bit of misdirection and different modes of deployment to succeed. I have infiltrating squad of stealers and a broodloird. i have two Crones moving down table. I have two strong Dsing units. I have a Tervigon spawning a buffer.

What destroys Nids is the loss of synapse. Primes are very tough to take out. That is what makes them so darn useful in lists. You are not chewing through 20-30 ablative wounds a turn. Not shrouded for sure. And that is the key. I illustrated a similar type of tactic earlier when I posted a list abusing the new Gargoyle dataslate. It does the same thing. Misdirects your attention to units that are very difficult to take down. It also has a lot of disruptive units. We have to start thinking outside the box of dual flyrant, venomthropes, tervigon, termagants as the only viable build. If you read the batreps you will see how fast those Flyrants and Zoans disappear off the table. Primes stick around longer. That said a Swarmlord with a hive guard is not half bad as well. But again it does not have 30 ablative wounds!

And a word on Venomthropes. too many players are building their lists dependent on these guys. I love them. Do not get me wrong. But using cover, buffering squads, fast units, infiltrators, you will often perform better with Nids on the table. The problem with Venomthropes is that they will be targeted early. I use them to draw fire ... I get my coverage for a turn maybe two and that is all I need. If my opponent goes after them instead of my synapse I'm happy indeed.

Something has to die eventually. No sense crying about that.

 felixcat wrote:
You are not stealing my thunder Jancoren. You are the go-to guy when I design lists as you know. And that is a pretty good summary. Bear in ind that the Primes should be able to handle themselves well in cc. Rending is a big plus on them and you can go for more expensive upgrades. A lot depends on the list itself. Getting through ablative wounds to knock out your synapse is a pita. And everyone I've played goes for the synapse guys first. This gives my other support units more freedom - very dangerous when its a miasmic Trygon Prime and a Mawloc.

These types of lists rely heavily on a bit of misdirection and different modes of deployment to succeed. I have infiltrating squad of stealers and a broodloird. i have two Crones moving down table. I have two strong Dsing units. I have a Tervigon spawning a buffer.

What destroys Nids is the loss of synapse. Primes are very tough to take out. That is what makes them so darn useful in lists. You are not chewing through 20-30 ablative wounds a turn. Not shrouded for sure. And that is the key. I illustrated a similar type of tactic earlier when I posted a list abusing the new Gargoyle dataslate. It does the same thing. Misdirects your attention to units that are very difficult to take down. It also has a lot of disruptive units. We have to start thinking outside the box of dual flyrant, venomthropes, tervigon, termagants as the only viable build. If you read the batreps you will see how fast those Flyrants and Zoans disappear off the table. Primes stick around longer. That said a Swarmlord with a hive guard is not half bad as well. But again it does not have 30 ablative wounds!

And a word on Venomthropes. too many players are building their lists dependent on these guys. I love them. Do not get me wrong. But using cover, buffering squads, fast units, infiltrators, you will often perform better with Nids on the table. The problem with Venomthropes is that they will be targeted early. I use them to draw fire ... I get my coverage for a turn maybe two and that is all I need. If my opponent goes after them instead of my synapse I'm happy indeed.

Tyrants are arguably the most all around useful unit for tyranids. Giving up a tyrant for a prime is painful. Not that I disagree, as I feel a bunkered prime (ideally in a C-fex brood) is a very important piece, but it's not like HQ is a barren slot for nids.

I dont understand that really? they SnekkManders, BeatManders, FlyMannders, and SoldierManders. I think the new Dataslate lets you have a Lictor leader for freeby. What dont you like about the Manders.

 felixcat wrote:
You are not stealing my thunder Jancoren. You are the go-to guy when I design lists as you know. And that is a pretty good summary. Bear in ind that the Primes should be able to handle themselves well in cc. Rending is a big plus on them and you can go for more expensive upgrades. A lot depends on the list itself. Getting through ablative wounds to knock out your synapse is a pita. And everyone I've played goes for the synapse guys first. This gives my other support units more freedom - very dangerous when its a miasmic Trygon Prime and a Mawloc.

These types of lists rely heavily on a bit of misdirection and different modes of deployment to succeed. I have infiltrating squad of stealers and a broodloird. i have two Crones moving down table. I have two strong Dsing units. I have a Tervigon spawning a buffer.

What destroys Nids is the loss of synapse. Primes are very tough to take out. That is what makes them so darn useful in lists. You are not chewing through 20-30 ablative wounds a turn. Not shrouded for sure. And that is the key. I illustrated a similar type of tactic earlier when I posted a list abusing the new Gargoyle dataslate. It does the same thing. Misdirects your attention to units that are very difficult to take down. It also has a lot of disruptive units. We have to start thinking outside the box of dual flyrant, venomthropes, tervigon, termagants as the only viable build. If you read the batreps you will see how fast those Flyrants and Zoans disappear off the table. Primes stick around longer. That said a Swarmlord with a hive guard is not half bad as well. But again it does not have 30 ablative wounds!

I have to agree with your way of using Primes. My current list has no FMCs and counts heavily on getting a lot of units in close and fast. It also operates pretty well with zero synapse. I am currently retooling it for the new dataslates, but here is the list in it's original form.

HQ:
Prime w/Maw-claws, Lash/Bone, AG and Tox
Deathleaper

Elite:
Lictor
Lictor

Troops:
9xGenestealer + BL w/ScyTal and Tox
9xGenestealer + BL w/ScyTal
9xGenestealer + BL w/ScyTal
6xRipper w/Spine, Tox and DS
3xWarriors


FA:
4xShrikes w/Bonesword, Fleshhook, RC and Tox
4xRavener w/Dev and RC
16xGargoyles

HS
Biovore
Biovore
Biovore

Fortifications:
2xVeng Weapon Battery w/Quad Icarus lascannon

Tactics:
I use the warriors to give me backfield synapse to babysit the biovores. They tend to just sit on objectives. The Weapon Batteries are there as my AA and where I deploy them is generally where they can have a good lines of fire for units breaking out of their deployment zone. The biovores are in units of 1 to maximize the number of spore pods that may end up on the table. They are good at shooting clusters of troops bunched up and if I miss then they can take overwatch shots for my other troops.

I then say the brood with the BL with toxin is being joined by the Prime and going into reserve. I also put all my DS into reserve.

That is my deployment.
Then I wait.

After I see how my opponent is deployed I then try to find good places to infiltrate my stealers and lictors. I want to box them into their own deployment zone. but not have them where the enemy can draw line of sight to them without coming closer and risking getting charged. I tend to not advance with them until the 3rd turn or when my deepstrikers are in position to attack. I can better react to how they deploy and move their units. The stealers and lictors are Ld10 so they can do well out of synapse without fearless and stealers ignore IB. Rippers are just fearless now and they might do 1-2 wounds if they fail their IB roll. Once the raveners are in CC they don't need to take IB rolls, but they have armor saves and multiwounds so its not to bad.

The list does target saturation all at once. It tends to do better against gunline armies as they expect a few turns of shooting and when your troops don't come out to play they either get ancy and break ranks or they get nervous and bunch up.

Need to get some more play time in and tweak it for the new dataslate.

EDIT: The Prime is there to come on with outflank and bring some more fearless to the party. It also has the Maw and it will give the unit of stealers it is with PE. It also hides my HQ in a nice big unit with someone to take challenges if I want to avoid them.

 Gloomfang wrote:
My current list has no FMCs and counts heavily on getting a lot of units in close and fast.

Wut?

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 Gloomfang wrote:
My current list has no FMCs and counts heavily on getting a lot of units in close and fast.

Wut?

What is the point of an FMC? Really? It is mobility and dealing with flyers.

My list has a ton of mobility. I have the Vengeance Batteries to deal with flyers.

So every list that has points dedicated to killing flyers just wasted points against my list. At best they will kill a shrike with interceptor.

Also in every game that I have seen with the "must have" dual flyrants they are dead by the end of turn 2 or they are so busy hiding the whole game they are next to useless.

So you have to change. Evolution is the name of the game.

I played against some Nids yesterday. I brought out my Tau. It was a great game... for me at least. I tabled the dude in 2 turns. That sounds really fast, but he was a really new player, or didn't play competitively until recently. He also let me take a couple of R'Varnas as I wanted to "try them out". I'm not going to ever play those things again unless I feel threatened by my opponent or its a tourney. The game was honestly not that fun in the scope of things. I then dropped the R'Varnas for our second game. I still won, but not nearly by as much. What do you think about these shenanigans against Nids?

I fail to see how either player could find a 2 turn tabling fun.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
I played against some Nids yesterday. I brought out my Tau. It was a great game... for me at least. I tabled the dude in 2 turns. That sounds really fast, but he was a really new player, or didn't play competitively until recently. He also let me take a couple of R'Varnas as I wanted to "try them out". I'm not going to ever play those things again unless I feel threatened by my opponent or its a tourney. The game was honestly not that fun in the scope of things. I then dropped the R'Varnas for our second game. I still won, but not nearly by as much. What do you think about these shenanigans against Nids?

Please bring that big pile of expensive scrap metal =)

Looks to be an easy unit to get rid of. Might be a little slower with 2, but they have a few big problems that Nids can really exploit.

EDIT: For folks not familiar here is the datasheet for the unit he is talking about: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/R/Rvarna.pdf

Don't waste points on a Norn Prime. Tervigons are not as good as they were but in the current codex compared to other choices in troops they're still the best. at 1850+ you can easily fit a Tervigon, x2 Flyrants, Zoan in a bastion with another backfield Zoan. If your opponent snipes all that then a Norn Prime was never going to save you.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:
I played against some Nids yesterday. I brought out my Tau. It was a great game... for me at least. I tabled the dude in 2 turns. That sounds really fast, but he was a really new player, or didn't play competitively until recently. He also let me take a couple of R'Varnas as I wanted to "try them out". I'm not going to ever play those things again unless I feel threatened by my opponent or its a tourney. The game was honestly not that fun in the scope of things. I then dropped the R'Varnas for our second game. I still won, but not nearly by as much. What do you think about these shenanigans against Nids?

BTW, the R'varna has been nerfed so that he is more worth his points now. Now his guns are only AP4 (yeah! Bugs get their 3+ saves!) and if he novas, he can't fire it on the next turn.

Quick question: has anyone tried sticking a Prime in a unit of Tyrant Guard yet?

Why would I put a prime in a Tyrant Guard Brood instead of paying slightly more points for a Hive Tyrant?