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Made in us
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






A garden grove on Citadel Station

I thought only one unit can go in a building at a time?

ph34r's Forgeworld Phobos blog, current WIP: Iron Warriors and Skaven Tau
+From Iron Cometh Strength+ +From Strength Cometh Will+ +From Will Cometh Faith+ +From Faith Cometh Honor+ +From Honor Cometh Iron+
The Polito form is dead, insect. Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence?
When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
 
   
Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





One unit and any number of characters, up to x models (10 for a bunker)

TO of Death Before Dishonour - A Warhammer 40k Tournament with a focus on great battles between well painted, thematic armies on tables with full terrain.

Read the blog at:
https://deathbeforedishonour.co.uk/blog 
   
Made in us
Pewling Menial




KY, US

Played in a 1000 pt tournament today, took basically a super striped down version of a 2k list.

SPEARHEAD
-TPD
-x8 Vanguard w/plas
-x5 Rangers w/arquebus
-Datasmith
-x5 Infiltrators w/Goad
-Onager w/ Icarus
-Onager w/ Neutron
-x2 Dakkastelens


Played against
Dark Angels - Ravenwing Knights x3 + Azreal
Blood Angels - 2 Stormravens + Tacsquad+ Assault Squad+ Mephiston
Black Templars - LRC + 2x Crusader Squad + Termies + Emperors Champ


Went 2nd every time, although the ravenwing player gave me first after deploying out of LOS. Managed to go 3-0. Things noted:

-Kastelens have Move8. Dropped out of protector to secure midfield obj in turn 4-5
-Twice used 2CP to auto pass morale on skitarii to deny first blood
-Neutron Onager has much more damage potential to heavy flyers than icarus onager, but icarus will still be focused
-LR still get a 6+ against the Neutron, and occasionally that will be made (twice! :()
-Probably best to not bother with any specials on skitarii bubblewrap
-Infiltrators are still a must and single handedly won game against templars by deploying turn 3, shooting a 3 man squad off one obj and assaulting a 5 man on another.

Won some store credit. Didnt have any mechanicus so I got some necrons. >>

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/16 09:49:57


 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






What the f is this no Cawl stuff. Sure, you can not take him and have an objectively worse admech army, if you want. But if you're taking an admech heavy army, I'd outright call you a Mindless servitor if you didn't take him at 1500+ pts. Dominus is terrible and he's the only other choice for admech HQ. And Cawl is bad in combat? Last few times i've played, he killed pleanty of huge melee specialists, like hive tyrants, daemon princes, etc...
Also every melee army will charge you turn one. So ofc I have faced them. You just need vanguard to stop them and blast them off the table. Every melee army I've faced, charged me turn one and on turn 3 were running away to try to win through VPs since crushed em. And every shooting army is just worse than admech in a shoot-off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've yet to even come close to a loss in 8th with both my AdMech and Daemon armies and I've played: nids, daemons and a lot of different CSM(for some reason people really like em)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/16 11:41:15


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




 ph34r wrote:
I thought only one unit can go in a building at a time?


You are right, sorry, my bad.
   
Made in us
Mindless Servitor





 rvd1ofakind wrote:
What the f is this no Cawl stuff. Sure, you can not take him and have an objectively worse admech army, if you want. But if you're taking an admech heavy army, I'd outright call you a Mindless servitor if you didn't take him at 1500+ pts. Dominus is terrible and he's the only other choice for admech HQ. And Cawl is bad in combat? Last few times i've played, he killed pleanty of huge melee specialists, like hive tyrants, daemon princes, etc...
Also every melee army will charge you turn one. So ofc I have faced them. You just need vanguard to stop them and blast them off the table. Every melee army I've faced, charged me turn one and on turn 3 were running away to try to win through VPs since crushed em. And every shooting army is just worse than admech in a shoot-off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've yet to even come close to a loss in 8th with both my AdMech and Daemon armies and I've played: nids, daemons and a lot of different CSM(for some reason people really like em)


It's actually not that hard to understand. It's valuing flavor over min-maxing your potential for victory. Plain and simple. If you imagine two types of war gamers, one who goes home and spends time pouring through data sheets to come up with the best possible build-out for their army (and enjoying it), and another who goes home, creates their own Forgeworld, comes up with a new name and paint scheme for their force to make an army that feels like _his_ army (and enjoying it), boom, you have a very clear reason why you wouldn't want to field Cawl.

I only bring this up because, for one, any kind of OMG, so-good, must-include unit like Cawl kind of bores me. The model's cool and I still plan on painting it up and fielding it occasionally because, well, it sounds fun.

The broader, community-facing point is that jumping on Cawl's mechadick as the one-and-only just stifles the fun of the part of the community that takes head canon over spreadsheets (and everyone in between). Hell, I'm painting up a trio of Inquisitors to take as a detachment (alongside my Dominus), because that sounds cool to me. And it's gonna look cool and it's not going to include Cawl and everything's going to be okay.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/16 16:34:26


 
   
Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

kinetoscopic wrote:
 rvd1ofakind wrote:
What the f is this no Cawl stuff. Sure, you can not take him and have an objectively worse admech army, if you want. But if you're taking an admech heavy army, I'd outright call you a Mindless servitor if you didn't take him at 1500+ pts. Dominus is terrible and he's the only other choice for admech HQ. And Cawl is bad in combat? Last few times i've played, he killed pleanty of huge melee specialists, like hive tyrants, daemon princes, etc...
Also every melee army will charge you turn one. So ofc I have faced them. You just need vanguard to stop them and blast them off the table. Every melee army I've faced, charged me turn one and on turn 3 were running away to try to win through VPs since crushed em. And every shooting army is just worse than admech in a shoot-off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've yet to even come close to a loss in 8th with both my AdMech and Daemon armies and I've played: nids, daemons and a lot of different CSM(for some reason people really like em)


It's actually not that hard to understand. It's valuing flavor over min-maxing your potential for victory. Plain and simple. If you imagine two types of war gamers, one who goes home and spends time pouring through data sheets to come up with the best possible build-out for their army (and enjoying it), and another who goes home, creates their own Forgeworld, comes up with a new name and paint scheme for their force to make an army that feels like _his_ army (and enjoying it), boom, you have a very clear reason why you wouldn't want to field Cawl.

I only bring this up because, for one, any kind of OMG, so-good, must-include unit like Cawl kind of bores me. The model's cool and I still plan on painting it up and fielding it occasionally because, well, it sounds fun.

The broader, community-facing point is that jumping on Cawl's mechadick as the one-and-only just stifles the fun of the part of the community that takes head canon over spreadsheets (and everyone in between). Hell, I'm painting up a trio of Inquisitors to take as a detachment (alongside my Dominus), because that sounds cool to me. And it's gonna look cool and it's not going to include Cawl and everything's going to be okay.


+1 to Kinetoscopic, fluff-wise I don't want Cawl, and even then I don't like the model at all. I hate it when in whatever army you want there's this single character you'll fit everywhere because "he's so good", you end up facing the same character every game and that gets tiring narratively. I also dislike named characters in game because they'll die stupidly in a little skirmish and that sucks too.

As for your games, I really don't mean to insult your skills but I'm wondering if your opponents are as good as you are, because a dedicated CC army that uses deep-strike or GSC ambush tactics will rip through the poor bubblewrap that Vanguards are and get to your Robots and Cawl in half a second. He may be tough and all but if he resists 35 wounds with 6 at -4 rend in one go then you'll have me surprised. Or just a simple possession of your closeby Neutronager will rip him quickly. Then meanwhile your Robots are tied up in melee and so are useless. No really, I can't see a favorable scenario where you face a good player with an aggressive CC army and beat him in CC all the while you can manage to secure half the objectives, with PURE AdMech. If you can shoot his army that fast you guys should consider using more terrain.

Care to show us your usual lists please so that I can understand your tactics a bit more ?

40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Malygon wrote:
Using an Imperial Bunker to bring down the number of deployments and to protect your rangers in general and/or protect your characters from a turn 1 alpha strike sounds interesting. If it helps getting first turn more reliably, those 100 points would be worth it. The way the "Fire Points" Rule is worded you could even put 2 5-man ranger squads with 2 transuranic arquebuses each in there and have all of those arquebuses fire...

As mentioned before, one unit, any number of characters, infantry-only, maximum 10 models. I would not bother with Arquebuses, since you can usually squirrel those away in some faraway place. A nice option that I mentioned some time ago are Kataphron Destroyers. They got great range, scary guns, and piss poor durability.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
What the f is this no Cawl stuff. Sure, you can not take him and have an objectively worse admech army, if you want. But if you're taking an admech heavy army, I'd outright call you a Mindless servitor if you didn't take him at 1500+ pts. Dominus is terrible and he's the only other choice for admech HQ. And Cawl is bad in combat? Last few times i've played, he killed pleanty of huge melee specialists, like hive tyrants, daemon princes, etc...
Also every melee army will charge you turn one. So ofc I have faced them. You just need vanguard to stop them and blast them off the table. Every melee army I've faced, charged me turn one and on turn 3 were running away to try to win through VPs since crushed em. And every shooting army is just worse than admech in a shoot-off.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've yet to even come close to a loss in 8th with both my AdMech and Daemon armies and I've played: nids, daemons and a lot of different CSM(for some reason people really like em)

Don't approve of the tone, but I agree with the point. If you are playing TAC, 2000 points, and intending to win, you need Cawl. He makes the army competitive. Dominus is really expensive for what he does; Cawl is a bargain.

And yes, properly deployed screens stop first turn charges and Deep Strike. Abuse that 9" window to keep them out of range; remember that Deep Strike is at the end of a Movement phase.

As for the fluff objections, do what I do: consider him an Archmagos, paint him some not-red color, and call him whatever you want. But the instant a tournament rolls by, they're all from "Mars."

Not sure about never having come close to a loss. We're definitely a competitive army, but a lot of armies can give us a run for the money.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




You could even mount your homebrew Dominus on a similar base size and call it a day. You never need official models so long as you got a similar size and concept.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




Suzuteo wrote:

As mentioned before, one unit, any number of characters, infantry-only, maximum 10 models. I would not bother with Arquebuses, since you can usually squirrel those away in some faraway place. A nice option that I mentioned some time ago are Kataphron Destroyers. They got great range, scary guns, and piss poor durability.

Yeah I should've read that more carefully. Still you can put your HQ and any Datasmith in it to bring down the number of deployments and shield them from turn 1 shenanigans if you go second.

Disadvantage of putting Kataphron Destroyers in there would be that those destroyers as an embarked unit would technically not be on the board. They can't benefit from aura's like our HQs re-roll aura that way, if I interpreted those rules correctly. If that's the case you'd have to rely on the destroyer's 4+ BS alone, which might lead to less than stellar results for a unit that expensive. You'd trade fire power for durability. Since I've always seen destroyers go boom pretty quickly that might be worth it still.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/16 20:01:49


 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Correct. Because they are transports, auras do not affect them. That is why if you are taking them specifically for use in fortifications, your best bet is the Grav variant.

Here is the rule on p183 if anyone is curious:
"Embarked units cannot normally do anything or be affected in any way whilst they are embarked. Unless specifically stated, abilities that affect other units within a certain range have no effect whilst the unit that has the ability is embarked."
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






 Aaranis wrote:
kinetoscopic wrote:
 rvd1ofakind wrote:
What the f is this no Cawl stuff. Sure, you can not take him and have an objectively worse admech army, if you want. But if you're taking an admech heavy army, I'd outright call you a Mindless servitor if you didn't take him at 1500+ pts. Dominus is terrible and he's the only other choice for admech HQ. And Cawl is bad in combat? Last few times i've played, he killed pleanty of huge melee specialists, like hive tyrants, daemon princes, etc...
Also every melee army will charge you turn one. So ofc I have faced them. You just need vanguard to stop them and blast them off the table. Every melee army I've faced, charged me turn one and on turn 3 were running away to try to win through VPs since crushed em. And every shooting army is just worse than admech in a shoot-off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've yet to even come close to a loss in 8th with both my AdMech and Daemon armies and I've played: nids, daemons and a lot of different CSM(for some reason people really like em)


It's actually not that hard to understand. It's valuing flavor over min-maxing your potential for victory. Plain and simple. If you imagine two types of war gamers, one who goes home and spends time pouring through data sheets to come up with the best possible build-out for their army (and enjoying it), and another who goes home, creates their own Forgeworld, comes up with a new name and paint scheme for their force to make an army that feels like _his_ army (and enjoying it), boom, you have a very clear reason why you wouldn't want to field Cawl.

I only bring this up because, for one, any kind of OMG, so-good, must-include unit like Cawl kind of bores me. The model's cool and I still plan on painting it up and fielding it occasionally because, well, it sounds fun.

The broader, community-facing point is that jumping on Cawl's mechadick as the one-and-only just stifles the fun of the part of the community that takes head canon over spreadsheets (and everyone in between). Hell, I'm painting up a trio of Inquisitors to take as a detachment (alongside my Dominus), because that sounds cool to me. And it's gonna look cool and it's not going to include Cawl and everything's going to be okay.


+1 to Kinetoscopic, fluff-wise I don't want Cawl, and even then I don't like the model at all. I hate it when in whatever army you want there's this single character you'll fit everywhere because "he's so good", you end up facing the same character every game and that gets tiring narratively. I also dislike named characters in game because they'll die stupidly in a little skirmish and that sucks too.

As for your games, I really don't mean to insult your skills but I'm wondering if your opponents are as good as you are, because a dedicated CC army that uses deep-strike or GSC ambush tactics will rip through the poor bubblewrap that Vanguards are and get to your Robots and Cawl in half a second. He may be tough and all but if he resists 35 wounds with 6 at -4 rend in one go then you'll have me surprised. Or just a simple possession of your closeby Neutronager will rip him quickly. Then meanwhile your Robots are tied up in melee and so are useless. No really, I can't see a favorable scenario where you face a good player with an aggressive CC army and beat him in CC all the while you can manage to secure half the objectives, with PURE AdMech. If you can shoot his army that fast you guys should consider using more terrain.

Care to show us your usual lists please so that I can understand your tactics a bit more ?


Lists are simple:
15-25 vanguard
cawl
Onagers, Kastelans & smith
Knight.
Random stuff I fit in

How do they "rip through your bubble wrap"? The only units that can do things like that are Khorne Berserkers and they need 2 turns to get to you at least. They will hit your bubble wrap. Kill them/fail to kill them. You retreat and unload a crap ton of shots at them. Just place you wrap 3''+ in front so they can't consolidate into you. Protect the robots with literally everything: vangaurd, knight, cawl, heck even onagers. Your opponent should only get to them turn 4, by then they should have like 2 models left.
And the dudes I've played have won your tournaments with less than stellar lists and have played for 7+ years at least.

Also I'm triggered since IMO Cawl is top 3 best models in WH40k. And I'm OK(ish) with people not liking him for his looks or full. I'm not OK with people even considering not taking him as a "strategic move".

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/07/17 06:01:35


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




A Knight is a very solid choice. Cawl, 2 Dakkabots, 3 Onager, 2 Dragoons, Some Vanguard and you got yourself a nice 1850 list. I like the knight because hes got some melee capabilities, something Mechanicus lacks. Our dedicated melee units are extremely fragile...man, Id love it if Onagers still got their Cognis Manipulator option.
Biggest problems Ive seen after a lot of games is that armies such as Harlequins and melee Ynnari (Shining Spears and Wave Serpents with Fire Dragons to add), all with Yncarne, are way more of a problem than nids or khorne or else. Flipbelts, insane movement, soulburst, Yncarnation and/or a 4++ against shooting really hurts, whether it is radium carbines by vanguard or dakkabots. I dont think we only need screening units but something for a counter charge. Either that or a knight who can be really good in melee plus brings a lot of firepower. Love the Paladin^^

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 08:15:12


 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






"A knight" for me is "Knight Crusader" or "Renegade Knight" with ranged weapons as the melee weapons are just awful. Even the main testers admit that.

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




 rvd1ofakind wrote:
"A knight" for me is "Knight Crusader" or "Renegade Knight" with ranged weapons as the melee weapons are just awful. Even the main testers admit that.
Cutting a wave serpent or a stormraven (in hover) in half in one round of combat is nothing Id call "awful" though.
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






Iago40k wrote:
 rvd1ofakind wrote:
"A knight" for me is "Knight Crusader" or "Renegade Knight" with ranged weapons as the melee weapons are just awful. Even the main testers admit that.
Cutting a wave serpent or a stormraven (in hover) in half in one round of combat is nothing Id call "awful" though.

Not sure how

It's 30pts sword that takes up a ranged weapon slot vs feet that cost 0 and don't take up the slot.
The feet are better in most circumstances and the sword even on best circumstances is barelly better or equal.
The columns are damage done that starts from T3 6+ and go to heavy vehicle. The last 2 columns are serpend and magnus. As Magnus is so prevelant - you can see that they do exactly EQUAL amount of damage. Isn't that insane?
And it's always more important to have more damage to everyone than most damage to heavy units since they are always screened off with multiple layers of small units

Here's a question. Why in the green hell is the sword only AP 3. So a Marine with a Powersword is just as good a Knight with a giant as sword at slicing through armour? That's just re...dumb

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/17 09:22:45


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Iago40k wrote:
 rvd1ofakind wrote:
"A knight" for me is "Knight Crusader" or "Renegade Knight" with ranged weapons as the melee weapons are just awful. Even the main testers admit that.
Cutting a wave serpent or a stormraven (in hover) in half in one round of combat is nothing Id call "awful" though.

Not sure how

It's 30pts sword that takes up a ranged weapon slot vs feet that cost 0 and don't take up the slot.
The feet are better in most circumstances and the sword even on best circumstances is barelly better or equal.
The columns are damage done that starts from T3 6+ and go to heavy vehicle. The last 2 columns are serpend and magnus. As Magnus is so prevelant - you can see that they do exactly EQUAL amount of damage. Isn't that insane?
And it's always more important to have more damage to everyone than most damage to heavy units since they are always screened off with multiple layers of small units

Here's a question. Why in the green hell is the sword only AP 3. So a Marine with a Powersword is just as good a Knight with a giant as sword at slicing through armour? That's just re...dumb

Convinced. Well at least mathhammer wise. Basically ttah leaves me up with list as following

Spoiler:

Imperium: Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment - 598 Punkte

*************** 1 Lord of War ***************

Knight Crusader
- Stormspear rocket pod
- Rapid-fire battle cannon + Heavy stubber
- Melta gun
- - - > 598

Imperium: Spearhead Detachment - 1252

*************** 1 HQ ***************

Belisarius Cawl
- - - > 250

*************** 3 Standard ***************

5 Skitarii Vanguard
- 1 x Plasma caliver
+ Vanguard Alpha
- Radium carbine
- - - > 64

5 Skitarii Vanguard
- 1 x Plasma caliver
+ Vanguard Alpha
- Radium carbine
- - - > 64

5 Skitarii Vanguard
+ Vanguard Alpha
- Radium carbine
- - - > 50


*************** 1 Elite ***************

Cybernetica Datasmith
- - - > 52


*************** 1 Fast Attack ***************

2 Sydonian Dragoons
- 2 x Taser lance
- - - > 136


*************** 4 Heavy ***************

2 Kastelan Robots
- 2 x 2 Heavy Phosphor blasters
- 2 x Heavy Phosphor blaster
- - - > 220

Onager Dunecrawlers
- Neutron laser + Cognis heavy stubber
- - - > 143

Onager Dunecrawlers
- Neutron laser + Cognis heavy stubber
- - - > 143

Onager Dunecrawlers
- Icarus array
- - - > 130


Plasma calivers on Vanguard because...well, spare points. Might be a good idea to only take 2 Vanguard units and a 5 man Corpuscarii (their close range shooting is better than vanguard and the yhave great melee capabilities...but damn are they fragile...well its a counter charge unit anyways)...Dragoons are just awesome for screening and if a screen is not needed they harrass...AM just hates them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 09:29:29


 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






Eh, I just take more bodies if I have left over pts :/
Melta on Crusader is not really recommended as you usually don't agresively advance with the ranged variant. But I need to test that more.
Dragoons have been getting a lot of hate so not sure about those.


This is preeeeeeeeeeetty sad. 4 attacks because of 1/6 to get 2 attacks(cba to make a formula now)
An equavalent squad of vanguard does about 4x the damage on most targets, had more bodies, can use cover, can capture objectives better... Dragoons are in a pretty bad place right now IMO

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/07/17 09:53:57


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in us
Pewling Menial




KY, US

As far as the Cawl debate goes...

I've heard some complaints about how good Kastelens are, and while they are good, what makes them *really* good is Cawl, plain and simple.

Cawl turns Kastelens from good to *amazing*
Cawl turns Destroyers from meh to good.

Basically, he is a significant force multiplier for any of your BS4+ shooting artillery pieces, which happens to be our primary anti-MEQ, anti-light, and anti-medium options.

Unfortunately, Cawl doesnt come with any guns with any kind of range, so he basically turns into a 250pt reroll buff, repair bot, and countercharge unit. Which, while decent, is a pretty significant tax to turn those Kastelens into the monsters they are.

Chapter Masters do a much better buff for much cheaper for Space Marines. They just dont have the weight of shots to take advantage of it. (or maybe they do, given the prevalence of ultramarine gunlines now?)

You can play Admech without him, this is 100% true, but that will significantly hamper the effectiveness of your BS4+ shooting artillery. If you were to run without him, I would be focusing on Onagers, a Knight, and Ironstriders as your main arty.

And make no mistake, we are an Arty list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 09:52:24


 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






We're basically TAU that can somewhat fight but can't move.

Cawl makes Kastelans 50% better and a Neutron Onager gets a 32% increase
And you have what... 4-6 Kastelans, 2-4 Onagers?
So if you take cawl that's 313 pts at LEAST of value with 4 and 2 respectivelly. That alone makes him worth it, not counting other units he empowers, his damage potential up close and the CotO +1 -1 that I use all the time to spam shroudpsalm

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 10:05:13


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Eh, I just take more bodies if I have left over pts :/
Melta on Crusader is not really recommended as you usually don't agresively advance with the ranged variant. But I need to test that more.
Dragoons have been getting a lot of hate so not sure about those.


This is preeeeeeeeeeetty sad. 4 attacks because of 1/6 to get 2 attacks(cba to make a formula now)
An equavalent squad of vanguard does about 4x the damage on most targets, had more bodies, can use cover, can capture objectives better... Dragoons are in a pretty bad place right now IMO

Dragoons are not really used for their offensive impact but are great screens and a great harrassment unit. Basically used to tie up units so they cant shoot next turn. Use them as a screen or if not needed rush them at your enemy. Vanguards are just too slow to play an efficient Maelstrom game. Dragoons at least can play that game plus almost every game they got me linebreaker.
With every match I tend to dislike the vanguard more and more...those strength 3 shots are just not doing it for me. And good god do they suck in melee by themselves. Thats why I am thinking about Corpuscarii.
But I am on board with "boys before toys".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 10:11:14


 
   
Made in us
Pewling Menial




KY, US

No disagreement from me rvd1ofakind. Not in the least when you consider our primary strategy to be a "race to shoot their assaulters before they maul us because we can't run away or screen very effectively" - that extra efficiency is SUPER important.

That said, if you were hung up on not using him, Onagers and Ironstriders can make do with the TPD buff, for the most part. I think.
   
Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

Ah well of course if you use a Knight things will go differently then they go with me I don't have one so that's normal if I get rolled over easier in CC. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Cawl is bad or anything, I just find it sad that in 8th Edition there's still auto-take characters because they're so powerful.

Considering mobility I'm eager to try my new Ruststalkers, even if I considered them more as bodyguards to my Robots than anything else, they still move 8". Still keeping the Infiltrators because I'm starting to get the knack of a good deep-strike with them. Problems of my list are the lack of bodies, I'm considerably thinned down after one shooting phase, I can't hide everything at deployment and even then the enemy can still just move his guys to get a LoS.

And I don't believe the TPD is terrible. He's not OP by any means and feel rather overcosted but he still packs nice guns (Volkite Blaster being a cheap source of mortal wounds) and he's not too shabby in CC, especially when he gets the charge. I killed three regular Chaos Terminators in CC, just him and the termies, and he killed one a turn. 2 Damage is nice on the axe, he needed that. I tend to use him as a support unit with my Snipers around him when I can, and the Robots + Onager ALWAYS in his aura. When I'll buy a second Start Collecting I'll build one to accompany the walking infantry, one or two squad of Vanguards with Plasma and Arc Rifles.

40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






TPD becomes terrible when it comes to fielding another one IMO. And since he's just a worse Cawl, he becomes pretty bad already. 1 Cawl, 1 TPD is fine if you can go out of your bubble (aka not facing turn 1 charge). But 1 Cawl 2 TPD and on is almost unplayable, which is sad as I have 3 of those fkers due to 3 start collectings.

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in be
Mysterious Techpriest





Belgium

Waiting for the codex so that we get a cheap HQ :( I'd rather not field two too, but as of now we only have two choices.

40K: Adeptus Mechanicus
AoS: Nighthaunts 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






My list still only has 2 Kastelans. I cut the other pair to make room for a Knight Crusader. Remember that even without a sword, those Titanic Feet can do some damage in a fight.

My Crusader and Dragoons make up the melee wall in front of my artillery. I mean, given the choice between 200 points of Vanguard or 204 points of Dragoons, I would always take the Dragoons. Much tougher to kill with Shroudpsalm + Incense Cloud, aren't scared to get into CC, and they have a chance to explode when they die.

TPD isn't terrible. But rolewise, he is redundant. He's 135 more points than we can spare most of the time for a function we don't need (unless we're running Caliver Vanguard squads).

Anyhow, have we settled on the best option for Deep Strike? Drop Pod Marines, Scions, Terminators?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 17:51:07


 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




Well, here are the lists of the 2017 ETC containing Adeptus Mechanicus. Now, the ETC is a team tournament so I wouldnt recommend pure copy/paste but it gives some ideas

Spoiler:
+ TEAM: AUSTRIA
+ PLAYER 3:

+ PLAYER TOURNEYKEEPER PROFILE: Alandro

+ ARMY FACTION: Imperium

+ TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 3

+ TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 1974 pts

+ ARMY FACTIONS USED: Adeptus Mechanikus, Adeptus Ministorum

+ TOTAL REINFORCEMENT POINTS: Not Applicable

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

== Spearhead Detachment == Forgeworld - Mars [1724 Points] +1 CP

HQ1: 1 Belisarius Crawl <Forgeworld Mars> - [250pts] - WARLORD (Tenacious Survivor)

Elite1: 1 Cybernetica Datasmith <Forgeworld Mars> - [52pts]

FA1: 6 Ironstrider Ballistri (300), 6x Twin cognis lascanon (270), 6x Broad Spectrum data tether

(0) <Forgeworld Mars> - [570pts]

HS1: 5 Kastellan Robots (325), 15x Heavy Phosphor Blaster (225pts), <Forgeworld Mars> -

[550pts]

HS2: 1 Onager Dunecrawler (90), 1x Neutronlaser (45), 2x Cognis heavy Stubber (16)

<Forgeworld Mars> - [151pts]

HS3: 1 Onager Dunecrawler (90), 1x Neutronlaser (45), 2x Cognis heavy Stubber (16)

<Forgeworld Mars> - [151pts]

== Auxillary Support Detachment == Adeptus Ministorum - Adepta Sororitas [250 Points] -1 CP

HQ2 : Celestine (150), 2x Geminae Superia (100) <Adepta Sororitas> - [250pts]

ARMY REINFORCEMENT POINTS: 0

ARMY REINFORCEMENT FACTION: NONE


Spoiler:
+ TEAM: Northern Ireland

+ PLAYER5:

+ PLAYER TOURNEYKEEPER PROFILE, James Johnston 1636

+ ARMY FACTION: adeptus mechanicus

+ TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 4

+ TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 1997pts

+ ARMY FACTIONS USED: Adeptus mechanicus, Forgeworld<mars>

+ TOTAL REINFORCEMENT POINTS: Not Applicable

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

==spearhead detachment== Forgeworld mars [1997pts] +1 CP

HQ1: Belisarius Cawl <forgeworld mars> - [250] – WARLORD {Warlord Trait: Tenacious Survivor}

Troop1 : 10 vanguard (10x10) 9 radium rifle (0) 1 arc rifle (4)<forgeworld mars> - [104]

Troop2: 8 vanguard (8x10) 8 radium rifle (0)<forgeworld mars> - [80]

Elite1: cyber datasmith (22) powerfist (20) gamma pistol (10)<forgeworld mars> - [52]

Elite2: cyber datasmith (22) powerfist (20) gamma pistol (10)<forgeworld mars> - [52]

HS1: onager dunecrawler (90) neutron laser (45) cognis heavy stubber (8)<forgeworld mars> -

[143]

HS2: onager dunecrawler (90) neutron laser (45) cognis heavy stubber (8)<forgeworld mars> -

[143]

HS3: onager dunecrawler (90) neutron laser (45) cognis heavy stubber (8)<forgeworld mars> -

[143]

HS4: 4 kastellan robots (4x65) 4x3 heavy phosphor blasters (4x3x15)<forgeworld mars> - [440]

HS5: 4 kastellan robots (4x65) 4x3 heavy phosphor blasters (4x3x15)<forgeworld mars> - [440]

FA1: 2 ironstrider ballistari (2x50) twin cognis autocannon (2x25)<forgeworld mars> - [150]

ARMY REINFORCEMENT POINTS : 0

ARMY REINFORCEMENT FACTION : NONE


Spoiler:
+ TEAM: Poland

+ Player5:

+ Tourneykeeper Profile: http://tourneykeeper.net/Shared/TKGames....yerId=1582

+ Army Faction: Imperium

+ Total Command Points: 8

+ Total Army Points: 1998

+ Army Faction Used: Imperial Guard aka Astra Militarum, Adepta Soritas, Adeptus Mechanikus

+ Total Reinforcement Points: 0

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Battalion Detachment: Imperial Guard aka Astra Militarum, Adeptus Astra Telepathica, Adepta

Soritas, Adeptus Mechanikus [853] +3CP

HQ 1: Celestine [150] - Warlord (Tenacious Survivor)

HQ 2: Primaris Psyker (28), Force Stave (12), Las Pistol (0) [power: Gaze of Emperor, Terrific

Vision] [40]

ELITE 1: Comissar (30), Bolt Pistol (1), Chain Sword (0) [31] <Cadia>

ELITE 2: Ratling x5 (5x5), Sniper Rifle (2x5) [35]

TROOPS 1: Conscript sqad x23 (23x3) [69] <Cadia>

TROOPS 2: Conscript sqad x23 (23x3) [69] <Cadia>

TROOPS 2: Conscript sqad x23 (23x3) [69] <Cadia>

HS 1: Onager Dunecrawler (90), Icarus Array (40) [130] <Mars>

HS 2: Onager Dunecrawler (90), Icarus Array (40) [130] <Mars>

HS 3: Onager Dunecrawler (90), Icarus Array (40) [130] <Mars>

Vanguard Detachment: Adeptus Astra Telepathica [115] + 1CP

HQ 1: Primaris Psyker (28), Force Stave (12), Las Pistol (0) [power: Gaze of Emperor, Terrific

Vision] [40]

ELITE 1: Astropath (15), Las Pistol (0) [power: Psyhic Barier] [15]

ELITE 2: Astropath (15), Las Pistol (0) [power: Psyhic Barier] [15]

ELITE 3: Astropath (15), Las Pistol (0) [power: Psyhic Barier] [15]

ELITE 4: Astropath (15), Las Pistol (0) [power: Psyhic Barier] [15]

ELITE 5: Astropath (15), Las Pistol (0) [power: Psyhic Barier] [15]

Spearhead Detachment: Adeptus Mechanikus [1030] +1 CP

HQ 1: Belisarius [250] <Mars>

HS 1: Onager Dunecrawler (90), Icarus Array (40) [130] <Mars>

HS 2: Onager Dunecrawler (90), Icarus Array (40) [130] <Mars>

HS 3: Onager Dunecrawler (90), Icarus Array (40) [130] <Mars>

HS 4: Onager Dunecrawler (90), Icarus Array (40) [130] <Mars>

HS 5: Onager Dunecrawler (90), Icarus Array (40) [130] <Mars>

HS 6: Onager Dunecrawler (90), Icarus Array (40) [130] <Mars>

ARMY REINFORCEMENT POINTS: 0


Spoiler:
+ TEAM: ROMANIA

+ PLAYER 3:

+ PLAYER TOURNEYKEEPER PROFILE: Paul Silaghi, 4206

+ ARMY FACTION: Imperium

+ TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 4

+ TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 1995 pts

+ ARMY FACTIONS USED: Adeptus Mechanicus, Questor Imperialis

+ TOTAL REINFORCEMENT POINTS: Not Applicable

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

== Spearhead Detachment == Forge World – Mars [1455 Points] + 1 CP

HQ1: 1 Belisarius Cawl (250), 1x Arc Scourge (0), 1x Omnissian Axe (0), 1x Solar Atomiser (0), 1x

Mechadendrite Hive (0) - [250pts] – WARLORD (Tenacious Survivor)

Elite1: 1 Cybernetica Datasmith (22), 1x Power Fist (20), 1x Gamma Pistol (10) <Forgeworld

Mars> - [52pts]

HS1: 4 Kastellan Robots (260), 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster (180) <Forgeworld Mars> - [440pts]

HS2: 4 Kastellan Robots (260), 12x Heavy Phosphor Blaster (180) <Forgeworld Mars> - [440pts]

HS3: 1 Onager Dunecrawler (90), 1x Neutron Laser (45), 1x Cognis Heavy Stubber (8), Smoke

Launchers (0) <Forgeworld Mars> - [143pts]

HS4: 1 Onager Dunecrawler (90), 1x Icarus Array (40), Smoke Launchers (0) <Forgeworld Mars>

- [130pts]

== Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment == Household – House Taranis [540 Points] + 0 CP

LoW1: 1 Knight Crusader (320), 1x Avenger Gatling Gun (95), 1x Heavy Flamer (17), 1x Rapid-
Fire Battle Cannon (100), 2x Heavy Stubber (8), Titanic Feet (0) <House Taranis> [540pts]

ARMY REINFORCEMENT POINTS : 0

ARMY REINFORCEMENT FACTION : NONE


Spoiler:
+ TEAM: TURKEY

+ PLAYER 1:

+ PLAYER TOURNEYKEEPER PROFILE: 1221

+ ARMY FACTION: Imperium

+ TOTAL COMMAND POINTS: 5 CP

+ TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 1997

+ ARMY FACTIONS USED: Adeptus Custodes + Adepstus Ministorum+Adeptus Mechanicus

<Mars> + Officio Assassinorum

+ TOTAL REINFORCEMENT POINTS: 0

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

== Spearhead Detachment == 1 CP <Mars>

Hq1: Belisarius Cawl [250]

HS1: 2 Kastellan Robots (130), 6 Heavy Phosphor Blasters (90) [220]

HS2: 3 Kastellan Robots (195), 9 Heavy Phosphor Blasters (135) [330]

HS3: 3 Kastellan Robots (195), 9 Heavy Phosphor Blasters (135) [330]

==Vanguard Detachment == 1 CP - Imperium Detachment

Hq2: Celestine (150), 2x Geminae(100) [250]

Elite 1: Cybernatica Datasmith [52]

Elite 2: Culexus Assassin[85]

Elite 3: Culexus Assassin[85]

Troops 1: 7 Custodian Guard (280), 2xGuardian Spears (24),1x Custodes Vexilla+Power

Knife+Storm Shield(35), 4 x Shield+Sentinel Blade(Shield-Captain)(56) [395]



As expected, there are not that many AdMech lists. I talked with a friend of mine who is a team member. He told me that AdMech "is just not up there". Mainly because AdMech is too vincible to good melee armies when playing a combination of progressive and end game objective missions, which is the usual way to go.




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/18 07:23:08


 
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






Basically it confirms my theory of the "good unit list":
Cawl
Vanguard
Balistarii
Smith
Dakkastelans
Onagers
Knight Crusader

Not a single sniper or ranger, kataphron of any kind, no dragoons, sicarians (since other imperials have better versions), electro-priests, Dominus.

And oh look, every list had Cawl. Shocking


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually Cawl is the ONLY unit that every list has
Aka when creating a 2000pts competitive list you have 1750 to play with

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/18 07:51:07


Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




lets not forget that this is a team tournament where your team can choose what you are up against.
I am not sold on Balistarii yet. If they would have the cloud they could be something but I have yet to see them used properly. I wonder against what 18 vanguard in only 2 troops would be any good since they have that slight morale issue.
   
Made in lt
Mysterious Techpriest






They are 100% the worst unit of the best units I think. And yeah this is 1 tournament anyway so we'll see later.

Mathammer(primarily Chaos Daemons, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Orks) https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhwa-d77ztppXP9ZUQxur9HewqDTFZ6k
12k pts Daemons
5k pts Orks
5k pts AdMech
3k pts Necrons  
   
 
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