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 Primark G wrote:
Celestine can provide an invulnerable save as well but she is better used killing enemy units. Accordingly there are better uses for the banners IMO... but you should do what you want with them.

Celestine is 200 points (250 with friends), incredibly fast, incredibly killy, and offers only a 6++.

A Vexila with Defensor is 104 (minimum), not very fast, only reasonably killy, and gives a 5++.

Big difference.

Celestine competes with Slamguinus. I think Celestine is broadly better since she doesn't need CP to work, whereas the slamcaptain need bare minimum 3CP to do his job, 4CP to do it right, and 6CP if you want to swing again. Your shield captains really want CP to buff up their toughness.

Yeah I think Celestine is way better plus she comes back once on a 2+ anywhere you want if there are no bodyguard.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
Celestine can provide an invulnerable save as well but she is better used killing enemy units. Accordingly there are better uses for the banners IMO... but you should do what you want with them.

Celestine is 200 points (250 with friends), incredibly fast, incredibly killy, and offers only a 6++.

A Vexila with Defensor is 104 (minimum), not very fast, only reasonably killy, and gives a 5++.

Big difference.

You don't understand my point.

What battlefield role are wardens? Troops? Are they bulky?

Jack of all trades - solid midfield unit plus they can take axes.

(fixed)

 Eldarain wrote:
What battlefield role are wardens? Troops? Are they bulky?

Elites. "Bulky" in the 7e sense (only six fit in a Coronus/five in a Land Raider) yes, but that's not particularly helpful given that putting Wardens in a Land Raider is utterly pointless.

Wulfey wrote:
Celestine competes with Slamguinus. I think Celestine is broadly better since she doesn't need CP to work, whereas the slamcaptain need bare minimum 3CP to do his job, 4CP to do it right, and 6CP if you want to swing again. Your shield captains really want CP to buff up their toughness.

Slamguinious synergies with a space marine detachment, which you want for scouts, better than celestine, and he's around 70 to 120 points cheaper.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I can't decide if I believe an AM brigade is better than just a batallion with 2x 40 man strong Infantry using the 5++ Vexilla. If you cast the AM power on them and combine the squads, that's an 80 man 4++ morale immune blob.

You'd never get an 80 man strong blob - as there aren't enough turns.

The combine squads only works on "Infantry Squads" not "Infantry Units", so Conscripts can't be merged together. Also - Conscripts only go up to 30 now, not 40.

Personally, i think, if you want a defensive wall you do the following -

30 Vallahan Conscripts (alternatively you can do any regiment and just add in another Astropath)
1 Astropath
1 5++ Vexilla
1 Commander with Relic pistol
1 CP each enemy shooting phsae.

This essentially gives you a 3++ vs shooting and a 4++ vs Meele, with minimal morale losses.

Kdash wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I can't decide if I believe an AM brigade is better than just a batallion with 2x 40 man strong Infantry using the 5++ Vexilla. If you cast the AM power on them and combine the squads, that's an 80 man 4++ morale immune blob.

You'd never get an 80 man strong blob - as there aren't enough turns.

The combine squads only works on "Infantry Squads" not "Infantry Units", so Conscripts can't be merged together. Also - Conscripts only go up to 30 now, not 40.

Personally, i think, if you want a defensive wall you do the following -

30 Vallahan Conscripts (alternatively you can do any regiment and just add in another Astropath)
1 Astropath
1 5++ Vexilla
1 Commander with Relic pistol
1 CP each enemy shooting phsae.

This essentially gives you a 3++ vs shooting and a 4++ vs Meele, with minimal morale losses.

I wasnt aware "infantry squads" we're restricted to 10man blobs, as opposed to the size you can max them at. I'm admittedly unfamiliar with the AM route when using them as anything other than a battery.

 Eldarain wrote:
What battlefield role are wardens? Troops? Are they bulky?

I personally don't think they are worth buying at the current time. If you give them axes, then you need to go tank hunting and better to take terminators to save the CP to deepstrike

There no transport for them currently that's worth using. Better to spend points on basic guys

As for Celestine, yea shes amazing. The speed, the killyness and coming back. Id never take her with her 2 buds though. She becomes a unit at that point and can be shot like anything else on the table. Better to just spend 200 and let her roam and murder

str00dles1 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
What battlefield role are wardens? Troops? Are they bulky?

I personally don't think they are worth buying at the current time. If you give them axes, then you need to go tank hunting and better to take terminators to save the CP to deepstrike

There no transport for them currently that's worth using. Better to spend points on basic guys

As for Celestine, yea shes amazing. The speed, the killyness and coming back. Id never take her with her 2 buds though. She becomes a unit at that point and can be shot like anything else on the table. Better to just spend 200 and let her roam and murder

Actually, she is still a Character with her two buds. It has nothing to do with being a unit.

Audustum wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
What battlefield role are wardens? Troops? Are they bulky?

I personally don't think they are worth buying at the current time. If you give them axes, then you need to go tank hunting and better to take terminators to save the CP to deepstrike

There no transport for them currently that's worth using. Better to spend points on basic guys

As for Celestine, yea shes amazing. The speed, the killyness and coming back. Id never take her with her 2 buds though. She becomes a unit at that point and can be shot like anything else on the table. Better to just spend 200 and let her roam and murder

Actually, she is still a Character with her two buds. It has nothing to do with being a unit.

Yea my mistake. Got things mixed up. Cant target her but I still wouldn't use them as if she dies and they live she has to be placed back near them. Better to stick her where you need most

str00dles1 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
What battlefield role are wardens? Troops? Are they bulky?

I personally don't think they are worth buying at the current time. If you give them axes, then you need to go tank hunting and better to take terminators to save the CP to deepstrike

There no transport for them currently that's worth using. Better to spend points on basic guys

As for Celestine, yea shes amazing. The speed, the killyness and coming back. Id never take her with her 2 buds though. She becomes a unit at that point and can be shot like anything else on the table. Better to just spend 200 and let her roam and murder

Actually, she is still a Character with her two buds. It has nothing to do with being a unit.

Yea my mistake. Got things mixed up. Cant target her but I still wouldn't use them as if she dies and they live she has to be placed back near them. Better to stick her where you need most

Yeah, it's possible for that to happen (and sucks when it does) but it should be rare. You always allocate wounds to her bodyguards first so they die first. You get stuck when she rezes a bodyguard while wounded herself, though, because now you have to assign wounds to her unless she heals.

Her bodyguards do allow you an infinite combo though. Goes like this:

After Celestine has already used her 2+ revival for the game: Allocate wounds to bodyguard 1 till dead then allocate wounds to Celestine until dead. As long as there aren't enough wounds to kill the second bodyguard: on your turn use Acts of Faith to have the bodyguard raise Celestine, then have Celestine use Healing Tears to raise the other bodyguard. Celestine will be wounded so allocate wounds to her and then to the newly raised bodyguard. With the lone surviving bodyguard, repeat as necessary. You can do this forever unless you take enough wounds to wipe the whole unit.

You can also heal Celestine back up if she is wounded, or use the AoF ress to bring a Gemini back who will be wounded and therefor a legal target. (which is funny because then Celestine can take bolters while you can still shove lascannons ect off onto the wounded Gemini since both are legal choices for each individual save you need to make)

I'm becoming more and more sold on Slamguinius. The blood angels package adds a good amount of utility and screening with the scouts.

I'm trying my best to incorporate my Dark Angels with some Custodes to fill gaps. Specifically I went for some scouts for drop protection and Inceptors for heavy target elimination because Weapons from the Dark Age is amazing, especially with rerolled 1's everywhere. This is what I'm thinking:

Outrider
Shield Captain - auric aquilus, hurricane bolter, misericordia, superior creation (warlord), victor of the blood games - 164
Shield Captain - eagle's eye, hurricane bolter, misericordia, victor of the blood games - 164
3x3 Vertus Praetors - hurricane bolters, misericordias - 846
1174

Battalion
Sammael - 216
Lieutenant with jump pack - power fist - 90
3x5 scouts - 165
6 Inceptors - plasma - 354
825

1999

Basically, bikes do their thing, clearing screens and bashing heads, while Sammael moves upfield. Ideally, Sammy will be in position to buff the Inceptors who'll drop in with the Lieutenant. I could just use a Master with a jump pack and another unit of scouts instead to ensure the Inceptors reroll their hits, but Sammy is pretty sweet.

 Ordana wrote:
You can also heal Celestine back up if she is wounded, or use the AoF ress to bring a Gemini back who will be wounded and therefor a legal target. (which is funny because then Celestine can take bolters while you can still shove lascannons ect off onto the wounded Gemini since both are legal choices for each individual save you need to make)

Good point! Though I think if we ask BaconCatBug he would say the game just breaks instead.

If she has the bodyguard she has to come back where they are.

How would you mesh Custodes and Ad Mech? While I'm working on my Tempestus detachment I'll probably run them with my Ad Mech bois. Im thinking the same Bikes+Allarus Bomb that I was looking at before with Tempestus, plus a detachment of Ad Mech with lots of MSU Rangers/Vanguard and Two Dunecrawlers with lasers to drop vehicles. Should I swap stuff around to fit Kastellans? I think this list is probably okay on anti-infantry shooting with 3x3 bikes in the custodes Outrider.

 Swiftblade wrote:
How would you mesh Custodes and Ad Mech? While I'm working on my Tempestus detachment I'll probably run them with my Ad Mech bois. Im thinking the same Bikes+Allarus Bomb that I was looking at before with Tempestus, plus a detachment of Ad Mech with lots of MSU Rangers/Vanguard and Two Dunecrawlers with lasers to drop vehicles. Should I swap stuff around to fit Kastellans? I think this list is probably okay on anti-infantry shooting with 3x3 bikes in the custodes Outrider.

So when I last looked at the Dunes their damage output was actually pretty poor. I would definitely recommend swapping to Kastellans (pending no nerf in March). Otherwise sounds good!

Bring lots of the troopers to screen.

 Swiftblade wrote:
How would you mesh Custodes and Ad Mech? While I'm working on my Tempestus detachment I'll probably run them with my Ad Mech bois. Im thinking the same Bikes+Allarus Bomb that I was looking at before with Tempestus, plus a detachment of Ad Mech with lots of MSU Rangers/Vanguard and Two Dunecrawlers with lasers to drop vehicles. Should I swap stuff around to fit Kastellans? I think this list is probably okay on anti-infantry shooting with 3x3 bikes in the custodes Outrider.

Next ITC event I want to run the following. 2000 points, ITC, 8 base CP

CUSTODES Supreme Command:
3x Shield Captains

IMPERIUM Soup Battalion:
Celestine + Geminae
Company Commander (5+/5+ WLT/Relic)
3x5 Scout marines

ADMECH
Cawl
4x Dakkabots
2x Neutronagers or Icarus
1x more Dakkabot and more wargear XOR 1x more Dunecrawler, can't decide

Audustum wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
What battlefield role are wardens? Troops? Are they bulky?

I personally don't think they are worth buying at the current time. If you give them axes, then you need to go tank hunting and better to take terminators to save the CP to deepstrike

There no transport for them currently that's worth using. Better to spend points on basic guys

As for Celestine, yea shes amazing. The speed, the killyness and coming back. Id never take her with her 2 buds though. She becomes a unit at that point and can be shot like anything else on the table. Better to just spend 200 and let her roam and murder

Actually, she is still a Character with her two buds. It has nothing to do with being a unit.

Yea my mistake. Got things mixed up. Cant target her but I still wouldn't use them as if she dies and they live she has to be placed back near them. Better to stick her where you need most

Yeah, it's possible for that to happen (and sucks when it does) but it should be rare. You always allocate wounds to her bodyguards first so they die first. You get stuck when she rezes a bodyguard while wounded herself, though, because now you have to assign wounds to her unless she heals.

Her bodyguards do allow you an infinite combo though. Goes like this:

After Celestine has already used her 2+ revival for the game: Allocate wounds to bodyguard 1 till dead then allocate wounds to Celestine until dead. As long as there aren't enough wounds to kill the second bodyguard: on your turn use Acts of Faith to have the bodyguard raise Celestine, then have Celestine use Healing Tears to raise the other bodyguard. Celestine will be wounded so allocate wounds to her and then to the newly raised bodyguard. With the lone surviving bodyguard, repeat as necessary. You can do this forever unless you take enough wounds to wipe the whole unit.

Do you get two AoF? One for Celestines profile and one for having a sisters unit? on a 2+?

Yes, there is no restrictions on detachments for that rule, you just need 1 unit to have AoF in order to have the "Acts of Faith" EDIT: THo 1 unit can not use the AOF more than once. So if you took a Canoness with the Relic

This will most likely change with the release of the codex.

str00dles1 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

Audustum wrote:

str00dles1 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
What battlefield role are wardens? Troops? Are they bulky?

I personally don't think they are worth buying at the current time. If you give them axes, then you need to go tank hunting and better to take terminators to save the CP to deepstrike

There no transport for them currently that's worth using. Better to spend points on basic guys

As for Celestine, yea shes amazing. The speed, the killyness and coming back. Id never take her with her 2 buds though. She becomes a unit at that point and can be shot like anything else on the table. Better to just spend 200 and let her roam and murder

Actually, she is still a Character with her two buds. It has nothing to do with being a unit.

Yea my mistake. Got things mixed up. Cant target her but I still wouldn't use them as if she dies and they live she has to be placed back near them. Better to stick her where you need most

Yeah, it's possible for that to happen (and sucks when it does) but it should be rare. You always allocate wounds to her bodyguards first so they die first. You get stuck when she rezes a bodyguard while wounded herself, though, because now you have to assign wounds to her unless she heals.

Her bodyguards do allow you an infinite combo though. Goes like this:

After Celestine has already used her 2+ revival for the game: Allocate wounds to bodyguard 1 till dead then allocate wounds to Celestine until dead. As long as there aren't enough wounds to kill the second bodyguard: on your turn use Acts of Faith to have the bodyguard raise Celestine, then have Celestine use Healing Tears to raise the other bodyguard. Celestine will be wounded so allocate wounds to her and then to the newly raised bodyguard. With the lone surviving bodyguard, repeat as necessary. You can do this forever unless you take enough wounds to wipe the whole unit.

Do you get two AoF? One for Celestines profile and one for having a sisters unit? on a 2+?

Celestine allows a bonus AoF for another unit, yes, but that's irrelevant to the combo. Her Geminae is part of her unit and thus uses her normal AoF to raise her model and then she her uses ability to raise a Geminae, which is not an AoF.

So long as you have any model with the AoF rule you get 1 on a 2+. And Celestine gives you a one from her rules.

 Ordana wrote:
So long as you have any model with the AoF rule you get 1 on a 2+. And Celestine gives you a one from her rules.

Hers is better. It just says perform an act of faith, not perform on a 2+. That is why I bring her every game.

 Primark G wrote:
Jacket of all trades - solid midfield unit plus they can take axes.

I think Wardens are a solid BUY even if you don't intend to run them as they're a good source of vexilla and shield captains.

Yeah the kit is worth having just for the bits.

That's mostly why I was asking. Thought a captain, Vexilla and 3 man unit would look cool in with an Inquisition force.