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Pyroalchi wrote: AoS Cities of Sigmar Riders or Dark Elf riders with Cadian torsos and heads are pretty easy to convert, cost much less and are 100% GW.
Exactly. The only thing holding me back is that I want to see the new codex first, and fear that DKOK might be made Legend soon. That and I still have loads of infantry and vehicles to paint first.
kirotheavenger wrote: Depends on the tournament. Some places require you to use the official models.
***This is not meant to be a snarky comment/question***
As I have never heard/seen such an issue, would they require a player to have the old metal models if they want to play a regiment other then Cadian/Catachan? Would they accept the old metal rough riders? If they would require the actual models for DKoK units but not other regiments then how do they justify it?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/02/24 14:49:30
"Elysians: For when you absolutely, positively, must have 100% casualties"
Very few tournaments outside of GW require official models. Most require your models to be reasonable approximations. As in same base size roughly same dimensions visibly clear what it represents. E.g. I've run kromlechs version of Tarrantulas and crusaders converted from mantic basileans and anvil industry's mortars on large bases with actual catachans for HWT's all our fine. If in doubt ask the TO.
My rough riders are catachans riding termagaunts with night govlin spears i ran them at a fair few events in 8th noone objected (as there never was an official catachan rough rider model)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/24 15:19:48
Is there any way that Krieg Death Riders can gain objective secure? That seems to be the main problem I can think of as you want your tarpit to hold the objective while creating a mess on the board.
Cygnus X1 wrote: Is there any way that Krieg Death Riders can gain objective secure? That seems to be the main problem I can think of as you want your tarpit to hold the objective while creating a mess on the board.
AFAIK it's just troops, conscripts and leman russ tanks (in a vanguard) that can ever have obsec in a guard army. No other shenanigans, unless i've missed something. So move move move some of the lads in behind them I suppose or have a vanguard russ kitted out for combat up with them, or only go after objectives which are held by non-obsec opponents.
Remember marines can both shut off your obsec and give theiir troops without it obsec or even double count obsec. Be wary of the guys with warlord traits and mobility when you plan on enwmyaction.
Hey guys been out of the loop for a while with work. Anything I need to update the OP with as far as major updates or changes?
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
There was that big Legending late last year that took away, like, 75% of the stuff we got from FW
Spoiler:
WHILE ALSO FINALLY MAKING THE SALAMANDER COMMAND VEHICLE AN ACTUAL COMMAND CHOICE NO I WILL NEVER NOT BE MAD IT TOOK THEM KILLING THE THING TO PUT IT WHERE IT ALWAYS SHOULD HAVE BEEN
Automatically Appended Next Post: So, after weeks of wondering what the bestest addition to my tiny army might be, I remembered the mortal wounds killball of monkey doom.
This one takes a warlord into the inquisition detachment, but bear with me, its funny.
Malleus inquisitor (60points + 2 cp + 10 point combimelta. He is NOT the warlord but his warlord trait is +1 psy power, cast, deny, and his second strat upgrade is +1 psy power known, and +1 deny (arbiter of the emp and alpha psyker strat). He carries a combimelta. jokaro. jogaro jokaro monkey. WARLORD. Warlord trait .. malleus ordo psychic mastery, +1 cast, deny and spell known. Other upgrade alpha psyker, +1 spell known and deny. Relic -1 to be wounded (blackshroud)
I know this sounds bizarre, but its 130 points total. These 4 guys are able to ride in any chimera, any valkyrie, whatever, and can stand in the middle of a 30 point conscript blob with an astropath duo .. turning those 30 conscripts into 4++ with -1 to be hit.
They can then cast a shocking 3 spells a turn (usually, I think, 2 of them offensive mortal wounds spells) and you can add this little nightmare to your existing 50 point psyker primaris, 24 point triple wyrdvane psyker duo that pumps out another 2 smites and malstrom each round. and an astropath for 35 completes it (allowing the ball of conscripts to strip cover and shoot much more effectively against things that save at 3+ in the open but 2+ in cover.) This brings you up to (but costs a cp!) smite(+3 on a d6, try to get a 5) smite(normal smite at 6, inquisitor) smite(psyker at +2, try to get a 7 on 2d6) malstrom (angry wyrdvanes, try to get 7 on 2d6) +1 save (from the primaris, try to roll this at +2? no problem!) -1 to be hit (also from primaris, ditto.)
Now, don't forget, this ball of psykery doom brings your cost in at 130 (inquisiton) + SEVEN CP + a warlord, + 109 for the gaurd psykers, + 150 for a bunch of conscripts. But it is an incredibly unusual and fairly neat way to hold onto a midboard objective, and the 3 jokaro put out a shot, each, of either s8/-3-3 OR 6 s4/-1/1. So they can basically hunt gravis armor with potshots while completely untargeted (unless, of course, a sniper is around.) Its not even BAD as a statline to shoot at terminators (S8/-3/3) and its not even BAD as anti-horde (although that 18 shots of s4/-1/1 is only range 12. So ... not perfect, either. but its a bonus. So the gaurd brings another 3 denies, up to EIGHT, in this psykerball.
CHEEPCHEEP! the warlord screams CEEEP! and the gaurd quietly wait for the invuln shielding to raise. Maybe this is survivable after all, one comments. "Why are those grey knights crying?" "I don't know, are they warming up? They keep waving their arms but its not having any effect over here" "Weren't they psychicers, Sir?" "Not. Today."
And yes, I know you probably want a pair of astropaths to be sure your defense buffs have character protected casters even after they 3 wyrdvanes die, and also because you will be low on cp this game after spending 7...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/02/28 10:13:54
The custom regiment trait Lord's Approval gives -1AP to all regimental infantry models within 9 inches of an officer of that regiment.
Question; is an officer within 9" of himself? So he always gets the -1AP bonus? Or would he need to be within 9" of a different officer?
(A pair of Lieutenants with Power swords running around trying to one up each others displays of swordsmanship sounds pretty thematic to be honest.)
I'm building a little Konig regiment, and their background fluff mentions that the officers are trained in the saddle and the sabre early on. Strongly considering using this as one of my two custom regimental traits; likely alongside Jury Rigged.
(Other contenders being Spotter Details or Gunnery Experts, but I'm not planning on using any variable shot weapons aside from heavy flamers.)
It's not the most efficient setup but IF you want to go the CC route, Slum figthers is also pretty good. On average it is more or less equal to +1 WS, so 50% output in CC for Conscripts, +33% for other infantry or Powerfist wearing commanders, +25% for other armed commanders. Sure, Jury rigged or wilderness survivors is more competetive, but it would be funny to have those pretty hard hitting infantry.
Not sure this is the right place to ask, but on the off-chance that somebody has some: does anyone know the dimensions of the DKOK death rider models? Height, particularly - I can estimate length pretty easily from looking at them on the 40mm base, but I'd love to know how tall they are (both to the top of the head and to the spear on the ones with the spear raised). Thanks in advance if anyone has some and can measure.
Trying to make super heavies viable, Im thinking 50 pts per sponson is way expensive, it just makes them bullet magnets in the end when you really just want the main turret. Baneblade comes with a free demolisher gun and a turret weapon that does flat 3 damage which would be good against the 3 wound space marine gravis meta. Also one thing I really like is the "Grind them down" strategem which can give them the actual ability to kick some melee ass for 1 cp a round if someone wants to get close to it.
The Tank Aces can be fun, if your army has the the reroll a heavy dice, and also the repair a wound every turn, could turn problematic when taking it down. Combine with guard psychic powers to make it -1 to hit and 2+ armor save could make it pretty hilariously durable. which was a popular strat in 8th when astropaths were so cheap.
The always in cover tank ace is also pretty good if you can position the tank to be able to have LoS to the primary and maybe oppponents backfield objectives, Most guns on the tank turrets are extremely long range.
All decided, I still feel they are heavily overcosted atm, and could use a durability buff.
To me the super heavies just look to big and unwieldy for the board size and recommended terrain in this edition. They ARE terrain peices, or mobile forts. I suppose you could leab into that and use them to block movement channels, or hide your troops, or completely cover an objective (the IG way to turn off obsec lol).
Which is the close range assualt heavy? The Doomhammer? I'd be tempted to take a closer look at that maybe.
Playing pure infantry guard, maybe with a second detachment of scions for secondaries and aerial dropped special weapons. Then comes a choice, buffing characters.
- Commissars aren't often worth it, unless you're playing pure conscripts and even then you'd only take Lord Commissars rather than standard ones.
- Astropaths? Better for buffing Bullgryns with mixed shields for the 1+/3++ saves, and/or the -1 to hit.
- Inquisitors? Can double as Commissars with the Ld 9 bubble, but the real reason you would take one is the 5++ power. The problem here is that it can fail or be denied. It also unlocks the Abhor the Witch secondary (especially if you have Astropaths as well).
So, what do you do? Allied auxiliary support detachments, and you can keep them cheap, with 2 options (3 if you don't care for Guard warlord traits or CP).
1) Celestine: Costs 170 Points and 2 CP.
Everyone should know what she does for Guard by now, a simple 6++ to any Astra Militarum units (even tanks) within 6 inch. She's also fairly respectable in close combat with 6 attacks, hitting on 2+ at S7, AP-3 and D2. She basically has the same melee damage output as 3 Bullgryns, she can even be buffed by Astra Militarum Ministorum Priests.
When can do better for Guard though and cheaper too.
***
2) Vexilus Praetor (in or out of Allarus Terminator Armour): 110 or 115 Points and 2 CP.
These guys are awesome, they provide a 5++ save for any Imperium Infantry unit wholly within 9 inches. Basically a Kustom Force Field for Guard, think of it this way. Compared to Inquisitors, these guys are guaranteed to get their invuls off and you could potentially give it to multiple units. Using good positioning there's the potential to squeeze 4 units of 30 conscripts around him, 1 to each direction. Though that's highly terrain dependant, but an extreme example of how many Guard infantry models his invul can cover. The icing on the cake? He can double as a commissar as well, any Imperium Infantry units within 6 inches can reroll morale. Making this quite a decent investment and avoiding the extra 235 (minimum) point tax to field them.
Now, to the Terminator Armour variant. Very similar, except they can deep strike. You know how everyone says how good the Lions refractor field generator relic is? Imagine having 2, or playing a different Scion regiment and still having a source of deep striking invuls to keep some of those squishy suicide squads alive. Now you could use your Tempestor Prime with the refractor field to cram all your Taurox Primes around to make them more durable. Similar to the Conscript example above you could probably fit 4 Taurox's around the Tempestor, again terrain dependant.
The normal Vexilus Praetor is also no slouch to close combat, certainly not as good as Celestine but definitely better than an Inquisitor. With their Guardian Spear you get 4 attacks, hitting on 2+ at S6, AP-3 and DD3. Obviously don't go crazy and charge him at dedicated melee threats.
***
3) Emissaries Imperatus Vexilus Praetor (in or out of Allarus Terminator Armour): 110 or 115 Points, 5/6 CP (2 CP + 3/4 CP lost thanks to no refund to the Battalion/Brigade) and make him your Warlord.
It's essentially the same as above, you don't get detachment abilities and you don't get stratagems but you can now give him Voice of the Emperor. With VotE you now have a wholly within 12 inch 5++ aura, a 9 inch Ld9 aura and a 9 inch re-roll morale aura.
Is 5 to 6 CP worth it? As a purely pure infantry list with Infantry Squads or Conscripts it could be. There's not too many stratagems you'll really be using.
***
What else can you do?
Sadly, I don't think there's any other allied units that are worth using the auxiliary support detachment on. Here's another suggestion for somewhat cheap allies for pure infantry Guard.
1) Adeptus Custodes Emissaries Imperatus Patrol: 340 Points and 2 CP.
HQ:
- Shield-Captain (in or out of Allarus Terminator Armour): 100 or 110 Points.
Tax, either keep them cheap and near your Vexilus Praetor to keep them safe. You can pay 1 CP for Captain-Commander traits but I don't think many are worth it, maybe Swift as the Eagle or Defiant to the Last. In terms of relics, they're not that great. You could buff their damage output. If you're taking the Terminator variant you can deep strike him with Scions to give some melee punch.
Troops:
- Custodian Guard: 135 Points.
Tax, pure Troop tax. Use them like Bullgryns. You can pay 1 CP to give them deep strike. Like the Shield-Captain you can drop them with Scions for some melee damage.
Elites:
- Vexilus Praetor (in or out of Allarus Terminator Armour): 110 or 115 Points, and 1 CP.
Vexilla Defensor, Ten Thousand Heroes and Voice of the Emperor. This is the creme-ala-creme, with Voice of the Emperor you now have a wholly within 12 inch 5++ aura, a 9 inch Ld9 aura and a 9 inch re-roll morale aura. This guy has basically become a Lord Commissar and at least 3/4 Inquisitors combined in terms of 5++ coverage. You can even make this better, now that you're taking a Patrol you get access to Detachment and Stratagems, the Detachment abilities just make him a little more durable with a 4++. What really makes him shine is the Plant the Vexilla Stratagem.
Plant the Vexilla increases his Custodes Vexilla aura range to wholly within 18 inch for the 5++ and within 15 inch for the morale re-roll. That's insane. You get this guy in the middle of a 44 by 60 inch board, he has a 36 inch diametre that's about 40% of the entire board covered by a 5++ aura. This is what you take the patrol for, to increase the survivability for the majority (if not all) your pure infantry army.
As for the Terminator Armour, I'd only take it to again, deep strike with Scions. Though, I probably wouldn't give it any of the upgrades above due to how dangerous that kind of deployment would be. Assuming you're dropping all your Scions into the enemies deployment zone and across both their quarters of the board for secondaries.
***
The question is, should you do any of these? Why not just take more Guardsmen, which is a fair point. Though, I think some of these is worth a try at least.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/14 06:57:35
I note of course that the vexillis / astropath combination can greatly augment the already somewhat hard to kill 2+ save bullygrns, cause 2+/4++ is pretty solid.
Also I note that there are LOTS of things oyu can soup in to gaurd. Doesn't need to be crazier than a pack of vangaurd vets with stormshields and 5 thunderhamers and 5 lightclaws, that can hop right into the fray, making a wall for melee behind which the gaurd can mass for lasgun volley .. simply because so few gaurd optoins can move 12 inches and THEN charge and THEN clear the objective that charged, wihtout getting cut up.
Dukeofstuff wrote: I note of course that the vexillis / astropath combination can greatly augment the already somewhat hard to kill 2+ save bullygrns, cause 2+/4++ is pretty solid.
Also I note that there are LOTS of things oyu can soup in to gaurd. Doesn't need to be crazier than a pack of vangaurd vets with stormshields and 5 thunderhamers and 5 lightclaws, that can hop right into the fray, making a wall for melee behind which the gaurd can mass for lasgun volley .. simply because so few gaurd optoins can move 12 inches and THEN charge and THEN clear the objective that charged, wihtout getting cut up.
You can do better for Bullgryns by just mixing shields though. For a 1+/3++ from just the Astropath alone.
I think the biggest boon of the Vexillis is that they can give Guard infantry units that typically don't get access to invuls an invul save. Guard units like:
HQ:
- Primaris Psykers, Tempestor Primes, and Aradia Madellan.
Troops:
- Conscripts, Infantry Squads, and Militarum Tempestus Scions.
Elites:
- Astropaths, Colour Sergeant Kell, Command Squads, Combat Engineer Squads, Commissars, Commissar Severina Raine, Master of Ordnances, Militarum Tempestus Command Squads, Nork Deddog, Ogryns, Ratlings, Rein and Raus, Sergeant Harker, Servitors, Sly Marbo, Special Weapons Squads, Tech-Priest Enginseers, Veterans, Wyrdvane Psykers.
Heavy Support:
- Heavy Weapons Squads.
It's pretty crazy how many units can benefit from an invul save in our army list. Obviously many of them aren't really worth it. Bad options will still be bad options even with a 5++.
Though it can make some more options slightly more interesting. Conscripts or Infantry Squads with a 5++ and Wilderness Survivors could be nice. Allowing them to hold objectives or tie up enemies for longer. Astropaths getting saves against things that can potentially ignore look out sir is nice.
cody.d. wrote: Although scions can get their mits on an invul with the lions if I recall. The aura even affects vehicles such as taurox primes.
Yup, it's a 6" aura of 5++ to all Lambdan Lion units. Definitely good for a taurox prime firebase, though somewhat limited given the lack of numbers scions usually bring.
cody.d. wrote: Although scions can get their mits on an invul with the lions if I recall. The aura even affects vehicles such as taurox primes.
Correct, but what an ally Vexilus can do is allow you to use that 5++ solely on a group of Taurox’s. You can then drop the Vexilus with the Scions to give them an invul as well.
I watched Mordian Glory's latest video where he talks about board control, and how you could throw 100 Guardsmen at the enemy deployment zone to delay their objective game.
Which got me thinking, could it be possible to simply slow down the opponent while you purely focus on objective grabbing.
Here's a hypothetical list:
Brigade 1 (0 CP):
- 3 Company Commanders
- 10 Infantry Squads
- 3 Platoon Commanders
- 3 Scout Sentinels
- 3 Heavy Weapon Squads with mortars
That's pretty crazy, the only way for Guard to get more infantry than that is to switch to Conscripts.
Basically, you put as many Infantry Squads on the field first. At least 9 - 10 squads. You put down all the characters, sentinels, cyclops and heavy weapon squads. The officers all order Move, Move, Move and you throw all those Guardsmen as a literal wall of bodies across the board. The sentinels, cyclops, and characters go with them. While the heavy weapon squads sit on the home objectives.
Any Infantry Squads that can't fit go into strategic reserves and they're your second wave to hold any objectives you've missed.
If you wanted more bodies you could swap the platoon commanders out in the first brigade for command squads. Then put the platoon commanders in the second brigade instead of the commissars.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/22 01:23:52
I really love the idea of a Guard-horde, but seriously painting that many guards-men is so beyond torturous to any hobbyist unless you go for the minimum cheesy 3 colors. Also moving that many guardsmen every turn and deploying them etc, is also a bit of a horrible experience.
I go into every game with the mentality that every single guardsmen is precious, but like ammunition, their fictional lives must spent to win the game whenever necessary at a moments notice. ;3
Love it mate, you have to shout CHAaArgGh!! at the start of every movement phase, and actually vocalise the Orders from the commanders, and you'll be golden. Also play without movement trays to tilt your oppo.
Seriously though, Agile Warriors (re-roll advances) and Wilderness Survivors (always in cover) seem like the doctrines here.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Model them as a penal legion with the cyclops repped by servitor human bombs, imo
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/22 06:24:03
~6550 build and painted
819 build and painted
830 
Imperial Guard - 1500 
GSC - 250 