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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




..........

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/11 04:34:49


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






The old Space Wolves ven dred is different than the current one (BS and WS 5, etc) and he is used differently, so I'd say your Ravenwing Attack Bikes are as printed in the codex, unless there's a FAQ which I'm too lazy to check :-P

And God said unto Abraham, "Take this mighty bolter, my son, and smite thy enemies from afar. Fear not, Emperor protects..er, I mean, well, youknowwhatImean." 
   
Made in us
Master of the Hunt





Angmar

Codex specific entries still apply as written unless specifically stated otherwise. It is not stated otherwise in the FAQ.

However, HQs, command squads, termie squads, tac squads and non-ravenwing squadrons all use the newer C:SM entries, per the FAQ.

Ravenwing Bikes, Attack Bikes, and Landspeeders all remain as written.


Ravenwing attack bikes are still at 1 wound with a 2+ save and can be taken in squads of 1. The good part is that all bikes now have turbo boost per the BGB, so enjoy that 2+ invulnerable until the new codex comes out!

Likewise, RW Speeders can still Jink and mix weapons, but do not gain deep strike.

"It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the seed of Arabica that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion."
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




the spire of angels

had a rather long and heated discussion on this over at the B&C on this subject.

as a ravenwing player i say use the 4th edition 3+ save 2 wounds and here is why

1.codex space marines is the baseline for all things space marines as per GW rules new rules replace old rules. attack bike stats are a general stat not some special character or vehicle.

2.all space marine bikes ,not just ravenwing, had 2+ saves and 1 wound. in 3rd edition now they all have 3+ saves and 2 wounds

3.the online FAQ for ravenwing does not adress it, but the questionare reply from pete and andy only allow/require usage of the codex darkangels for unit construction(how many bikes) points costs(we pay extra for skilled rider) and weapons options(what guns we can take). not the old stat line

4.ravenwing bikes themselves are not special P5 of the codex darkangels when discussing the ravenwing specifies that the marines who are assigned to the ravenwing practice so much that they , the rider, is special. this is born out by the fact that they(RW attack bikes)  had the same exact stat line in 3rd edition as all other attack bikes, they just get the skilled rider ability and the special jink save as well.

5.on a side note, the only things in 4th edition that should give you a 2+ save as a marine are artificer armor and terminator armor niether of which are standard equipment for ravenwing.

 

.now a majority of the people over at the B&C still want to use thier 3rd edition rules so they can turbo boost across the table and get a 2+ invul save(remember that it didn't exhist as such in 3rd edition) to me this is rules lawyering at best and borders on cheating by trying to get yourself a better save than you should have.

 

as a ravenwing player i personally changed to the new attack bike stats when 4th edition was released.


"victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none" 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Los Angeles

Easy answer the the question: (I'm at work)

Question 1: Is there a unit entry, complete with a stat line, for Raven Wing attack Bikes in Codex DA?

Question 2: Does the most recent DA FAQ tell you to refer to to new Codex SM as opposed to the old codex DA?

If you answered no to question 1, then you're stuck with the new bikes. If you answered yes to question 1, proceed to question 2.

If you answered yes to question 2, then you're stuck with the new bikes; however, if you answered no to question 2, then you can keep using the old bikes.

EDIT: Having reread the thread, the question was answered correctly. The RW Attack Bikes have an entry in codex DA, which has not been overruled by any present FAQ; thus, RW attack bikes keep their 2+ save and 1 wound.

All the previous poster's arguments are wrong.

"The last known instance of common sense happened at a GT. A player tried to use the 'common sense' argument vs. Mauleed to justify his turbo-boosted bikes getting a saving throw vs. Psycannons. The player's resulting psychic death scream erased common sense from the minds of 40k players everywhere. " - Ozymandias 
   
Made in us
Master of the Hunt





Angmar

The online FAQ does address it by not including them in the list of units which you are specifically told to use the new entries for.

GW could easily have included all of the Ravenwing units in that list, but they left them out (apparently intentionally as they did include "Battle Company Squardons"). Since we are not told to replace them, we cannot.
I'd happily take 2 wounds on my attack bikes and deepstrike my speeders in exchange for a 3+ save, but alas, this is not allowed.

 

WARNING!!! INTENT BELOW!!! (Ignore as you see fit)
As for the Q&A:


"16. Ravenwing bike squadrons will continue to use the point costs, unit structure and unit weapons options specified in C: DA

YES

17. Ravenwing attack bike squadrons will continue to use the point costs, unit structure and unit weapon options specified in C: DA

YES

18. Ravenwing land speeder squadrons will continue to use the point costs, unit structure and unit weapon options specified in C: DA

YES

19. Can Ravenwing Land Speeders Deep Strike as regular C:SM Land Speeders can?

NO"

They were give ample opportunity to reply and expand to the bike question here, but simply state "YES" to the question as a whole. Had they instead replied "Yes, but they use the new stat line provided in C: SM", that would be a much different story. Why have them use the original cost, structure, and weapons, yet change the statline? Combine this with the fact that they deny RW speeders the ability to deepstrike, I believe that we can safely conclude that, until the Codex is released next year, RW and SM bikes and speeders are completely different and seperate units in all respects.

I understand why you feel that they should be the same, they're the same unit with different skills after all, and I agree. But as written, the RW bikes remain as-is.

Feel free to fix this temporarily within your local club until the new codex hits (a fine idea which makes sense), but per RAW, and in my mind intent as well, they should remain as written.


"It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the seed of Arabica that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains, the stains become a warning.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion."
 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Carnifex





I much prefer 3x1 2+ save multimelta bike. They do a lot better for me

Having to have two in a squad suddenly makes them worth shooting at.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Thank you guys, it seems like it's a debatable issue but it seems pretty evident among your advice to use the 2+ until it is changed. Thanks for helping me out.

   
 
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