Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hq

Shas'el- plasma rifle, missile pod , hw-mt ,targetting array-97

shas'el-same-97

Elites

2 fireknives-plasma, missile, multi tracker-124

fireknife team leader with targetting array-77

fireknife team leader with targetting array-77

Troops

10 firewarriors-100

devil fish-multi-tacker, array, decoy-100

10 firewarriors-100

devil fish-same-100

10 firewarriors-100

devilfish-same-100

Fast

piranha-fusion, decoy, array-75

piranha-same-75

piranha-same-75

Heavy

Hammerhead-rail, sms, mt, decoy, target lock-180

hammerhead-same-180

hammerhead-same-180

Very few changes from my last list which went 4-1 in an Indy GT

A tough list to be sure. I wouldn't be thrilled about facing it until my new codex comes out. I only wish that I had your easy answers to the monolith lol.

 

How do you think that it will fare in escalation?

What about dense terrain like city fight?

 

Lazarus.

The great (or not so great) thing about this list is that you are equally screwed by Escalation, but no models are lacking mobility. The only down side, is that you are opening up yourself to be distroyed piece meal.

I am telling you though, everytime you post your list, Tetras. My 1850 list is about the same, but I take 2 units of 2 Fireknife suits, 2 Piranhas, 2 Tetras (Squadron), 2 Hammerheads, and a Skyray. 4 Move and shoot Markerlights only increase the efficiancy of your list and is worth the slight loss in Firepower.

Well, escalation is always annoying, but my list follows the second best option in escalation.
1. nothing (all infantry basically) affected
2. (what my list is) Everything affected
3. Mixed, but most unaffected (most armies)
4. Mixed, but most affected, meaning whats unaffected is left alone to be singled out

The list works fine in dense terrain due to my mobility, I can focus on a few spots in the enemy and move into spots were terrain blocks some of my opponents fire lanes. Plus, lots of terrain means I can keep a piranha or two hidden for a turn 6, 24" move to the objective. Now, in actual city fight, its not nearly as good as with out repeling lines I'll always be disembarking into the open and firing into cover and my skimmers cant take objectives in city fight.

I'd use tetras if I had any. That probably will change soon though... around 55$ and 110 points for two with targeting arrays...

I dont' play tau but I wanted to post to say that I think the list looks awesome. Verry efficient and is probably incredibly annoying to take down. I can only imagine since I've never faced a Tau list built like that.

Not that this matters too much for an RTT, but I think it would look pretty awesome to boot.

I am bringing my Ravenwing army and you are going down. Bring on the multiple biker squads! :p

Just added up your points and you are 13 under...

That's a Stim Injector if I ever saw one.

Do my eyes deceive me or are you finally using SMS on the hammerheads?

Lazarus.

 

 

I used them in the necro as well. They've worked very well. I do miss the extra 2 shots but the extra range and the whole no LOS thing make up for it.

I like the change to the SMS as well.

Looks like a solid list. I think I'd rather have more suits than the piranahas, but that's just me.

Have you played it against pods yet? Is anyone down there fielding a pod army? Pods are the single biggest reason my Tau army is still in boxes.

There is someone here that plays a majority pod army and fairs well with it, but I have yet to see one pure Drop Pod army.

I think he prefer's taking a lot of Piranha's for their objective grabbing.

It hasn't hit the table in probably 6 weeks, but my all drop possible (but not all in pods) list hasn't lost a tournament game yet and I won overall with it in all 3 tournaments I took it to.

One member of my club can consistently tie it, but he's using Blood angels in pods to do it.

Anyway, I only ask because I find that any game with pods vs. any Tau build is largely a waste of time. It's one of those situations where there's only the least worst choice to make, not any good ones. And no matter what the Tau player does, he gets tabled.

There are a few drop pod armies in the area. There is a player in the orlando area that uses 4 or 5 pods in his force. His list is pretty effective until his reserve rolls stall it out. Him and I played in the 5th round in the Necro and neither one of us had great luck with our reserve rolls. So the game came down to a cat and mouse shoot out with no one getting the upper hand over the other. So we drew. There is also a Blood Angel player in Tampa that plays an all pod list with 2 fear Libbys. Never played against it, but I would think it would be a tough match up.
Capt K

I think anyway you look at it Tau have a tough time against pods. Just based on the fact that they don't know when and where your stuff is going. So their deployment isn't as effective and neither is their mobility. They basically flounder around waiting for the inevitable beat down that awaits them.
Capt K

Posted By mauleed on 07/25/2006 1:47 PM

It hasn't hit the table in probably 6 weeks, but my all drop possible (but not all in pods) list hasn't lost a tournament game yet and I won overall with it in all 3 tournaments I took it to.

One member of my club can consistently tie it, but he's using Blood angels in pods to do it.

Anyway, I only ask because I find that any game with pods vs. any Tau build is largely a waste of time. It's one of those situations where there's only the least worst choice to make, not any good ones. And no matter what the Tau player does, he gets tabled.

Have you played against any really skimmer heavy lists, and if so, how did it fair?

I've played against skimmer heavy Eldar 3 times.

Once was a mostly walking guardian 3 falcon list. Against that I killed the falcons last. booh was brutal on it.

The second two were mostly mounted Biel Tan lists. 2-3 falcons and 2-3 wave serpents. The first was interesting, since it was a recon mission and by the time my army hit the board I was down about 1500 points (he was almost completely in my deployment zone). But once start moving their skimmers, they hatch gets blocked and something drops it, and everything dies. Or they get out and can't assault and eat assault cannons or flamers and die.

I'd imagine an all mounted fire dragon heavy list would eat my babies. Or at least give me a game. But I only know one guy that actually owns/plays that.

All mounted Tau is, as stated, a waste of time. I actually think all infantry Tau would have a better chance.

I haven't fought DE (in 4th edition at all), but I can't imagine they'd have much luck unless it was all mounted and we rolled escallation AND they went second.

I'm curious, Mauleed, as to whether you think Tau stand no chance against a droppod list solely because of a droppoding librarian with fear?  It seems like that was the idea you have because you mentioned how well that worked against an Eldar list, which has the same morale susceptibilities as a Tau list.

Now, against a droppod list without a librarian, is it a better fight (but I guess such a list doesn't exist)?  My thoughts are that since the marines always get to shoot first, they should be able to destroy any Tau unit they shoot at, but wouldn't that rely on meltaguns in almost every squad to take out those skimmer tanks?  Most droppod lists I've seen go with two plasma guns in most squads, and I'm not too sure that they would be able to guarantee-kill a hammerhead or even a devilfish.

Without that librarian, I would think it would be a much better fight, with the Tau having an advantage if there were no escalation in effect, as they could easily destroy a droppoding army piecemeal.  With escalation, it would be crazy for both sides as those reserves rolls would be the gamebreaker.

- Oaka

Well, my experiance playing Me_Person's Mech Tau is that he is the master of keep away. Tau Skimmers with Decoy Launchers are annoying as you almost have to get a glancing 6 to drop it. He plays conservatively and lets his slower opponents over extend themsleves before he really gets aggressive.

But you raise and interesting point about Pods. You could drop on top of a transport and cut off the excape with a decent scatter. Tau Devilfish are harder to do that too because they have more access points.

I think the key to list like this is to realize that the Firewarriors are expendable. If you noticed only 600 points is dedicated to them, which is less than half his list. He has a lot of redundency to this list to cover taking a few shots, and Assault Cannons aren't nearly that scarry.

I though that Infantry Tau was one of the least effective lists.

Mechanized Tau is the way to go. If opponents waste energy kill the Tau they will most likely find out too late the majority of the points are in the armor. The armor is tough because of 4th edition rules for skimmers combined with their wargear.

Mauleed, I think the IG Plasma-Army-of-Doom would also make easy work of any all Drop Pod army, simply through numbers, better chance of making/not making reserve rolls when needed, and sheer durability.

Against Mech eldar it is really easy to use pods to block exits. With Tau it is a little more difficult since they have 3 exit points...but pods should still give Tau fits.
With Me_Persons list everthing can spread out in a way that would make deployment pods difficult. I'd actually deploy behind the transports and almost form a wagon train against a DP list. DUnno. It depends on the mission I gues.
Pods don't agree with the Tau digestive system...hehe.
Capt K

Again, I'm only talking about terminator heavy pods, as that's what I play. But multiple responses:

Otaku:

"I'm curious, Mauleed, as to whether you think Tau stand no chance against a droppod list solely because of a droppoding librarian with fear?"

First, you'll always see the librarian, so it does little to ponder what affect his absence would bring. But without him the game goes from a tabling to simply a massacre. He's brutal, but he's not required. The guns and the 2+ saves are enough to do you in.

"Without that librarian, I would think it would be a much better fight, with the Tau having an advantage if there were no escalation in effect, as they could easily destroy a droppoding army piecemeal."

You discount the effect of bringing your own terrain with you. You'll never have the guns in the right place to hit back as hard as you just got hit. Pods drop, kill the biggest threats while making sure they suffer little to no return fire. Then they end around and repeat, adding more pods next turn. The only way to counter that is to bunch up, and then you just get boohed off the table.

Bloater:

"The armor is tough because of 4th edition rules for skimmers combined with their wargear."

Sure it's tough, but it drops eventually. Every single unit in a drop podding army can hurt a hammerhead. And how much damage do 3 hammerheads do a turn to terminators? 3-4 a turn? If they all get LOS, which they won't. It's the suits that are a threat, with their AP1 and 2. They die first. Protect them and you have a chance. But good luck protecting them. You have to remember, terminators are dropping vehicles and wiping out whole squads every turn. All your going to do is plink a few off while you scramble for fire lanes that pods keep closing.

Stu-Rat:

"Mauleed, I think the IG Plasma-Army-of-Doom would also make easy work of any all Drop Pod army, simply through numbers, better chance of making/not making reserve rolls when needed, and sheer durability."

You'd have to explain that one to me. A zillion plasma guns don't do you any good if you don't have LOS with them. And if you're anywhere near getting LOS to them, you're in assault next turn. Except all of your HTH units were vaporized this turn. A 3 demolisher russ army has a chance, but that'll require some luck. 30 rough riders on a terrain dense board wouldn't hurt either.

Pods are just broken. I love playing with them, as when it is "game on" they require great care to use, but against 90% of what you'll see in a tournament, the game is over before the first die is cast. And I don't feel too bad about using them, as it is an army that you can't be an idiot and win with. You never simply set up and roll dice to beat a competent opponent.

 

Alright, I didn't know that 'droppod armies' typically means a couple librarians and a lot of terminators.  Yes, that would take out Tau for the reasons you mentioned, low morale and an absence of AP 2 weaponry.  I had it stuck in my head that droppods have tactical marines and dreadnoughts, because every terminator squad I have seen in my area uses deepstrike (it's free!).

I still think, though, that the high mobility units in a Tau army should be able to move and shoot around the droppod block (just how many models in terminator armor on 40mm bases can a droppod block LOS to?).  Then again, that's just theory on my part and I haven't actually seen droppods on the table yet so can't know their dimensions for sure.  I also wouldn't mind getting a penetrating 6 on a droppod with all those terminators clustered next to it, then laying down three ordnance templates, that's like a jillion armor saves, 1/6 of them should be kills.

To revamp my statement, an effective droppod army should be able to beat Tau, but not just any droppod army. 

- Oaka

Well I did say I was only talking about my style of army several times.

And pods block ALOT of los, particularly when you have more than one of them and/or some terrain all in a row. And as I said, the units that scare terminators (suits) only move 6" to make new fire lanes, and that's not usually enough.

@ mauleed - I am sorry I did not realize you were specifically referring to your terminator heavy drop pod army. Sure terminators are rock hard against Tau for the reasons you mentioned.

The Tau certainly do not have the mobility that the eldar have when it comes to re-deploying. I have not had any problems whatsoever w/ drop pod librarian (FOTD) since I started using the mech list. Hatches are in no danger of being blocked as they will be close to the edge of the board. Skimmers are already moving bascially doing the "shuffle" waiting for the pods to land. The falcons are nails hard to shoot down and the meltas won't get any extra dice against the serpents. With the massive short range firpower & speed that the Eldar have it is short work from there.

Mike's Tau list is an extremely strong one to say the least but I would be a tad bit worried about stuff raining from the sky and shooting it up. nearly all of the nail hard drop lists I've seen do indeed use 2 meltas per sqaud.

Either mech list has little to fear from FOTD as long as they stay mounted.

 

Lazarus.

Almost any pod list would make for a very very hard game. The list you use mauleed would really mess my army up fast. I've only played against one drop pod list and it was designed differently then most all drop lists. it was:

fear/ fury libby terminator squad with double assault cannons
terminator squad with double cannons
4 venerable dreads in pods, all had tank hunters and one had las/missile ( I dont remember what every one here decided on the legality of the multiple ven dreads in both force orgs, but the judge ruled it legal)
2 8 man tactical squads with double melta and fist sarg in pods

It was a close game, but in the end I came out with a minor victory. Though that might not have happend if not for me killing a venerable dread with one drone...

I fully expect the semi drop list capt k was talking about to be present at the rtt this list is for. I'll post a battle report on sunday, but no pictures sadly. At least my fire warriors wont be feared off the table in the initial drop... they'll just be pinned from there devil fish crashing...

Was that Scott's BT army?

 

Lazarus.