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Posted By Duncan_Idaho on 04/14/2007 11:55 PM
So, they are somehow in a similar position as GW was in the past. 

Not really. A public company is legally responsible to its shareholders and can be sued for not trying to maximise shareholder value.

You aren't under the same obligations if you owe someone some money. I also have not ever heard anything about PP being financially overextended so I am not really even sure of the veracity of that rumour.

sorry.

Think what you want, I do know it from the source. And if you haven´t realized, I am definitely not a friend of GW on a personal basis, but financially one has to put personal views aside.

But back to topic, time will tell who of us was right.

Posted By Duncan_Idaho on 04/15/2007 11:48 AM
Think what you want, I do know it from the source. 

Which source?

As I said, this is the first I've ever heard of it.

I know something you dont dont know. neener neener neener!

I know PP's secrets and I know GWs release schedule. But I cant tell. I have a source, but trust me. Its gold jerry! GOLD!

I think comics are probably the closest comparison for the WM storyline- superpowered individuals battling for the fate of the world. Due to PP not wanting to alienate players, they have stated that no warcaster will truly "die" (that is, become unusable). However, death by plot has not been ruled out. Indeed, 2 have already. The Harbinger was slain and subsequently revived. Denegrha was slain by Haley. But since when is that a problem for the nightmare legions of Toruk? This prompted her epic ghostly incarnation.

As to Duncan_Idaho's comments and predictions:

What? I thought those predictions were an attempt at humor until I saw you defending them!

Plastic is not in the near future for a variety of reasons. Huge production setup costs being a big one. Plastic works for companies where the volume of sales offsets the enormous equipment investment. Rubber (as in the crappy clix minis) is easier, but, well, crappy.

Prepaints are HIGHLY unlikely from a company rolling out its own paint line.

And where are you getting this Hordes bailout stuff? There were production bugaboos getting orders filled when alot of production had been switched over to prepare inventory for the HORDES release (and the anticipated demand), but that worked its way through the pipes. Additionally, every indicator points to growth and very healthy sales for both PP lines.

In short, PP has people who seem to know what they are doing. Whether it will be sustainable remains to be seen. But I don't think comparing it to Confrontation's debacles is particularly illuminating, considering Rackham couldn't even seem to get decent English rules out. I'm just glad I can use their beautiful minis for Warhammer!

Well, there is something like NDA that keep one from saying everything or publishing some stuff. And sorry, you don´t know what has happened within Rackham the last two years from what you are telling, so how do you know that it is not likely what I say? Do you have information or are you just guessing.

Many want PP to be the little rebell company that goes against the GW Empire. In the end both want to make money, with the shrinking market of the pure hobbyists and ever more companies entering the market right now, they would be stupid not to look for new areas of customers. And that is what prepainted plastics do, they get those into the boat who have had not the time up untill now to do all the preparation work necessary in the past to play.

You don´t believe PP is going to hold on to "purism" while all other companies make money on prepainted plastics. How big is Mongoose compared to PP, and even they are doing it.

Do you really think Mongoose has a bigger market share than PP right now?

Well, Mongoose is smaller with regard to market share and when even they go for plastics this makes me wonder why PP shouldn´t be able to do it as well.

IIRC Mongoose had a lot of problems getting their plastics off the ground for SST (did they ever release the aircraft or plastic infantry?). I'm not sure that making the move to plastics is a "no brainer" business decision. It's a big investment, and a very different business strategy than what PP is currently doing.

It also may be a corporate culture issue for PP. The original page 5 from Prime had a statement something like "If you can't handle it, go play with plastic."

Posted By jmurph on 04/15/2007 8:37 PM
Plastic is not in the near future for a variety of reasons. Huge production setup costs being a big one. Plastic works for companies where the volume of sales offsets the enormous equipment investment. Rubber (as in the crappy clix minis) is easier, but, well, crappy.

To reinforce this. One a Yahoo group of which I am a member a participant who is in the miniature manufacturing business stated that the startup costs for plastic injection moulding are so high that you basically have to be selling ten to twenty times the number of a comparable metal mini to recoup the startup costs. He mentioned sales in the millions of units.

That is why Rackham and Mongoose are aiming their new plastic prepaint games to mass market audiences. They have to make big sales to begin to recoup their initial outlay for moulds. Plastic costs "adult money".

Posted By Duncan_Idaho on 04/15/2007 11:59 PM
Well, there is something like NDA that keep one from saying everything or publishing some stuff. 

Which you've already broken since you've told us the information that would have been covered by the NDA.

Posted By Duncan_Idaho on 04/16/2007 6:35 AM
Well, Mongoose is smaller with regard to market share and when even they go for plastics this makes me wonder why PP shouldn´t be able to do it as well.

Mongoose might not be a big miniature manufacturer but they are a *huge* RPG publisher. Big enough that they are opening their own printing press. I would suspect that part of the sales from their RPG lines are going to fund the B:Evo range.

IIANM Rackham went public in part to fund AT-43.

PP has announced no plans to go public (that I know of) and also has a "Full Metal Fantasy" logo that they would have to rework :-) i think PP is quite happy with metal as it allows them to control their production process and they are also fans of metal minis. I don't see either of those factors changing.

There are more than one set of NDA out there.

We will see, PP has often enough claimed to not go the way of GW just to to it the next year.

Posted By Duncan_Idaho on 04/16/2007 8:57 AM
There are more than one set of NDA out there.

Indeed there are. I've never seen one that said you could spill any info you wanted to and just not release the source. Unless you are a reporter that seems like a strange arrangement for someone to have amde with you.

Posted By Duncan_Idaho on 04/16/2007 8:57 AM
We will see, PP has often enough claimed to not go the way of GW just to to it the next year.

Which really just makes it sound as if you have an axe to grind.

Maybe you do indeed have some "source" but this really just makes you sound as if you want to complain about PP and got yourself caught trying to rationalise your comments with some "source" you made up.

A word of advice: if you have inside info about things that you aren't meant to discuss then keep it to yourself... as you were probably asked to.

I am sure there are all sorts of people on Dakka that have information given to them or passed on to them that was meant to be confidential and they do indeed keep it to themselves.

Really you can't win. Either you are spreading a falsehood or you are releasing confidential information to score points with people on a messageboard. Either way you look bad.

You are reading too much into just a few comments. My informations have been sound if you look at my past comments. I agree that it was stupid of me arguing with you, cause it leads to nowhere. You have an opinion how the market has to go and you will not deviate from it. Also I don´t need to score with others but are always willing to share with others what I know for sure. My name shows up in books so, why do I need to score here? But there is also a reason why some colleagues do no longer share their knowledge on boards. In the past there were far more of us, now most are reading and not writing much. Very often they were accused of bragging with their knowledge while they only wanted to share.

BTW, out for posts or why do you post three posts in a row instead of editing? Do you need to score?

Psst.............I know a secret about Duncan Idaho...............he's a ghola.





Don't tell anybody.

In the end, this conversation has devolved into all the trappings of a bad debate.

Duncan, you just don't have a leg to stand on. You propose a position that you can't support, falling back on tried and true sophist rhetoric.

While I do find the comparison between Rackham and Privateer Press intensely intreguing, let us agree to call this conjecture and continue. Privateer Press has come out and stated very clearly that they are dedicated to metal. For now, that is all the evidence we have on their intentions towards plastics.

Rackham packages its model statistics in the blisters.
Privateer Press does the same.

I feel that this is a cornerstone comparison. Rackham's forthcoming revision is almost entirely inspired by this fact. To revitalize their system, they have to finally shuck the weight of burdensome legacy rules tied up in old models and cards printed years ago.

Will there come a time when trying to balance new releases against models printed years ago will become a liability for Privateer Press? I think so. I think this is particularly likely when Privateer Press -fails- to balance new models against the old (as Rackham has done) and the only way to renew interest in aging warcasters and warjacks is to simply revise their rules.

I think Privateer Press already realizes this. I think that the Special Detachment cards published in No Quarter several months ago were a test run for a revised card distribution system.

Pure conjecture, of course.

Posted By Duncan_Idaho on 04/16/2007 9:46 AM

BTW, out for posts or why do you post three posts in a row instead of editing? Do you need to score?

I actually like keeping my posts related to the comments that I am referring to and not string together long posts that are often, at least I find, to be difficult to read online.

But thanks for trying to make a personal comment about it. I'll refrain from taking the bait.

Posted By Crimson Devil on 04/16/2007 9:50 AM
Psst.............I know a secret about Duncan Idaho...............he's a ghola.





Don't tell anybody.

I wonder if the Bene Tleilaxu ever made a Duncan Idaho Ghola with borderline Trhola disorder. It would almost appear they have...

Especially when their only real retort is "Time will tell" over and over again. I think what Capt. Obvious is missing is that "Time will ALWAYS tell". Hardly very much to back an argument up with.

The sun will consume the earth! You'll see! Time will tell and you will be SOOOOOO sorry!

Yes indeed, time will tell.
Sooner than you might think too...

I think Mongoose and Rackham realized that the alternate hobby/gaming market
was going to PP and thus went to prepainted to get the gamer gamers who play
Dungeons and Dragons minis and the like.

Posted By Zubbiefish on 04/16/2007 11:08 AM
Yes indeed, time will tell.
Sooner than you might think too...

So very true. You'll all see!

Posted By Crimson Devil on 04/16/2007 9:50 AM
Psst.............I know a secret about Duncan Idaho...............he's a ghola.





Don't tell anybody.

But is he just a ghola, or one of the later serial gholas? I wouldn't trust the first one, but I would the latter.

Posted By fleshcross on 04/16/2007 4:05 PM

Posted By Crimson Devil on 04/16/2007 9:50 AM
Psst.............I know a secret about Duncan Idaho...............he's a ghola.





Don't tell anybody.

But is he just a ghola, or one of the later serial gholas? I wouldn't trust the first one, but I would the latter.

"Hayt" is such a strong and ugly word....

Oh noez! PP forums are down! It's just as GW predicted!

Posted By redstripe on 04/16/2007 10:20 AM

Will there come a time when trying to balance new releases against models printed years ago will become a liability for Privateer Press? I think so. I think this is particularly likely when Privateer Press -fails- to balance new models against the old (as Rackham has done) and the only way to renew interest in aging warcasters and warjacks is to simply revise their rules.

This doesn't ring true to me. How does nerfing two of the most used Warcasters renew interest in them?

I can see how this is the case for the warjacks with the proviso that interest in the revised warjacks was not renewed as there was no interest in them before .

Does WM have a balance issue on the horision? Yes all games go through this stage of evolution. What will matter is how PP will handle it.

On the Reveiw:

I really liked the Cryx artwork; with the exception of Deneghra the Scarre picture is particularly good. I understand why many long time WM players were disappointed by Remix although I myself was not disappointed.

By far the worst art in the book IMO is the Sorsha picture, she looks like a farm girl at a Christmas party. No, wait... scratch that. It's definitely Vlad, yes he's the worst picture by far.

WM needed Remix as Prime was lagging further behind with each release.