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Kilkrazy wrote:The UK seems to have much more of a culture of gaming at home and at parish halls and community centres than at games shops. It comes though in the way people write about their gaming life.

I don't know this for truth -- it's a question I've asked Americans before without getting any answers.

It's something I've observed as well. I put it down to the fact that here in the UK, independent stores are a rare animal thanks to GW having bought them up in the 80's/early 90's or competed them out of existence in many cases. Sure there are some, and some successful ones, but they are a heck of a lot more rare a phenomenon (or appear to be) than in the UK.

Anyhow, whatever the reason, GW are massively dominant in the UK when it comes to games retailing, so if you want to play games, and for whatever reason you don't want to play in a GW store (maybe you don't play GW games, don't like the atmosphere, don't like red-shirts bossing you around, you're too old/young/smelly whatever) you are pretty much forced to set up or join a club.

Also, it is probably a factor that your average FLGS in the UK really doesn't earn enough to justify renting significant playing space. In the US where property rental and sales are possibly in a different ratio...

Now, there are some clubs around that predate GW and are focussed on (say) purely historical gaming which has nothing much to do with the Evil Empire at all these days, at least when it comes to figures. I suspect this is the case in the US too, as clubs do exist over there, just not to the same degree as independent stores with gaming space.

Of course, there are always exceptions, and a local one I can think of is Games of War in Seaham, here in the UK. It rents a warehouse for gaming, with a shop on the front. While the proceeds from the shop (and from attending shows) pays the bills though, one gets the impression that it is still very much a gaming club with a retail arm, rather than a store with gaming space. (www.gamesofwar.co.uk)

Danny Internets wrote:Valhallan, what you say about GW stores and GW employees is generic to the point where it can be said of any gaming store. The problem with GW is that their employees exaggerate these qualities to the point where it drives people away whereas FLGSs typically do not. I've never had FLGS employees try to sell me stuff that they know is crap (in fact, I've had some caution me against buying things), but I have had a red shirt try and convince me that Pariahs are a great addition to a Necron army.

You point out that every business has douchebag employees, but the fact that it is commonplace for gamers to complain specifically about the douchebaggery of GW salesmen is an indication of a problem. It all comes down to their management practices.

What's worse? Having a staff member acknowledge and greet you when you walk in, say hello and ask you what you are looking for and wear a red shirt, or having a zombie, stuffing his face full of sandwhich stare at you from the time you walk in, and look around and not ask you a thing? Personally, I find the second worse.

I had an Flgs staffer tell me how terrible the GW paints were, and try to push me into another type of paints, and when I asked him how long he had used the GW paints, he said never. So I asked him how he could compare them if he hadn't tried them both? There are those in both GW stores and FLGS stores that just aren't good and there are those in both places that are good, it's not like GW has the market on moronic staff.

legoburner wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Greebynog wrote:Tell you what's worse than pushy sales, I went into a LGS in central London last week looking for some paint, and as I walked in I just got this glare from the blokes in there, they went silent and just stared at me as I walked to the bit where the paint was. They then turned their backs on me and carried on talking. I had to say 'excuse me' three times before they turned, again glaring, to me and asked what I wanted, I told them, they said they didn't have it and turned their back. I'm not off in there again, I'll tell thee that. I can only assume that they were thrown by the sight of someone who had showered entering the shop.

Which one was that?

I'm curious too. The only LGS in central london proper that I am aware of is the Orc's Nest which could sort of match that description. Great range there though if you want anything non-GW.

Cookie for Legoburner! Spot on, I was just pottering about Covent Garden towards Soho, saw a LGS, was well pleased and wandered in....the rest as they say, is history. Not a pleasurable experience, perhaps a bad day?

At the Chicago Bunker that I go to the staff really doesn't force you to not play old armies. I saw a squats player a few weeks ago. He was running it with his own "5th edition squats update" and having a great time. The staff there came by and oggled the classic models and that was about it.

I'm not trying to refute the OP, but I think that GW's policies are more store based than anything else. I think the GM has more power than is normally credited them. It sounds like the stores you were in just had bad employees. At least I hope thats the case.

Maybe I just love the bunker and am blind to it's flaws.

Daft thing is, I've been aware of Orc's Nest for Donkies years, ever since it advertised in White Dwarf. And despite living 40 minutes from Charing Cross by train, have I ever been? Nope!

Must change that, and soon!

The hobby side of the Seattle Bunker is outstanding. The Shop part leaves a little to be desired. The staff there is great, in fact my gaming group is almost entirely previous staff members.

They have a fairly high turnover which is disappointing, just when you get used to one, he's either been chased out, or found something better paying. But for the level of the job in the area, that's fairly par for the course.

They seem to be having serious issues restocking. Especially on things I can't really find an excuse to be out of. Ultramarines Blue paint for example. I say seem to because I also usually see several empty rows for blisters, and slots for boxed sets, but I haven't looked closely enough to know if those were for discontinued or just out-of-stock items. It is sad I usually have to (and now prefer) going to an independant retailer 20 minutes away for both a better chance of what I want being in stock, and for a better overall selection to boot.

Just a little one that some people might not know about- (not sure about in the states) but if anything is ever out of stock that should be in stock at the store- the staffer should be able to sort it out to get it delievered to your abode free of charge...

Which basically means when the guy who had a lottery win and bought all of the IG tanks in the store- everyone who wanted one afterwards got to have theirs delieverd to their house.... which made us popular with mailorder

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Daft thing is, I've been aware of Orc's Nest for Donkies years, ever since it advertised in White Dwarf. And despite living 40 minutes from Charing Cross by train, have I ever been? Nope!

Must change that, and soon!

It's not worth a pilg just for Orc's Nest. Make sure to plan something else for the day as well.