Two unknown legions?

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**Jon Garrett**

It's been said that all twenty Primarchs were found, and that Dorn at least knew about all of them. We also know by the time of the Heresy they were a non factor. Horus made plans for each Legion and didn't mention those two, which means they weren't a danger to him.

Since it was supposed to be a case of one going to Chaos and one staying good, I suspect the Legions aren't gone. I suspect they are still out there, somewhere. My personal suspicion was that the Emperor hid them somewhere in the Warp using the same kind of shielding as the Webway, holding them as an Ace in the Hole, and the barriers failed on one. But since they're both stuck in stasis...

But that's just a personal theory.

**Emperors Faithful**

@BrookM: But mabye the time of legends is just a piece of INQUISITORIAL PROPAGANDA! WOW! Didn't see that coming!

**BrookM**

I try to laugh but ugh, you kids can't crack a good joke these days.

**Shinigami**

Aren't the LoTD one of the missing ones?

**Emperors Faithful**

@BrookM: Wow...way to shoot a try-hard down. My mamma always says, "If you can't say anything nice, then shut the %$£* up." (joking...again...)

@Shinigami: LotD went missing AFTER the Horus Heresy, and they were only chapters, no primarchs involved as far as I know.

**1hadhq**

Jon Garrett wrote:It's been said that all twenty Primarchs were found, and that Dorn at least knew about all of them. We also know by the time of the Heresy they were a non factor. Horus made plans for each Legion and didn't mention those two, which means they weren't a danger to him.

Dorn said he wished he had those 2 legions at his side, maybe "they are lost to us forever" doesn't mean the 2 legions have turned
traitor or got destroyed.
Possible to see them as "cannot be contacted" or those 2 legions were sent through the webway when it broke and stranded in another galaxy ?

Its one of the secrets GW should never reveal....

**deadratman**

Well if the primarchs were lost wouldn't that mean the legions would have died off due to unstableness possibly mutation and loss of gene seed?

**1hadhq**

deadratman wrote:Well if the primarchs were lost wouldn't that mean the legions would have died off due to unstableness possibly mutation and loss of gene seed?

no

Primarchs were useful as "master-copy", but not necessary for a legion to exist.
Space marine legions were created without their primarchs around. Space marine chapters survive without primarchs.

Not impossible to keep 2 legions in service without their primarchs, but those primarchs were their planned leaders and
the emperor could be too busy to care about them personally all the time.

**deadratman**

Oh I see.

**Xav**

I like the stuck in the webway idea, i mean, the custodians couldnt fight all the demons off and had to close it.
Why would they fight if there's nothing important in there?

Apart from the ablitity to travel across space, but they would risk custodians for that, only like 100 of them at a time.

**deadratman**

Yeah. The webway is a good scenario.

**CajunMan550**

BrookM wrote:The TIME OF LEGENDS novels about Sigmar are quite specific that he was born from a woman (his mother to be precise), not a comet. Plus he didn't grow up at an accelerated rate, nor does he have a longer lifespan than the average man.

Actually they say he was but he was born on a night when a comet was seen how do you know that they didn't just say he was born and he was actually just found. I mean they thought the 2 tailed comet thing was a sign from god how do you know thats not what they did when they went looking for the comet. Plus he grew quite fast actually at 15 he freed the Dwarf king and was a powerful warrior. I couldn't do that at 15 lol. He then united all the tribes became emperor then left. You can't say he doesn't have an extended life span because he was actually quite old when he left (still cut as a god) then just never came back. He is a missing Primarch!

Wait till the warpstorm lifts you'll all see.

**deadratman**

1hadhq wrote:
deadratman wrote:Well if the primarchs were lost wouldn't that mean the legions would have died off due to unstableness possibly mutation and loss of gene seed?

no

Primarchs were useful as "master-copy", but not necessary for a legion to exist.
Space marine legions were created without their primarchs around. Space marine chapters survive without primarchs.

Not impossible to keep 2 legions in service without their primarchs, but those primarchs were their planned leaders and
the emperor could be too busy to care about them personally all the time.

Well what about the Emperor's Children?Before Fulgrim was found something happened to the gene seed and the Emperor's Children had only 300 soldiers and were slowly dying out. What if something like this happened to one(or both)of the missing legions? Here is a scenario for you.
The legion's gene-seed was corrupted(maybe it was corrupted by toxic waste or something like that) and because the primarch was never found they had no more pure gene-seed and so the organs didn't work properly and so were easily killed off until there were no more soldiers.

**BrookM**

The Emperor's Children suffered from a genetic flaw that affected over 95% of their original gene stock.

**deadratman**

Excatly. If fulgrim wasn't found the legion would probly be destroyed.

**Emperors Faithful**

But that's not to say that such a fate is INEVITABLE for a priamrch-less legion.

**deadratman**

No it is not. What I am saying is if large amounts of gene-seed are corrupted and the primarch wasn'y found to provide pure gene-seed then such a fate is more likely. Even legions who's primarchs were found quickly still suffered mutation.

**Xav**

As much as i love debating fluff, and working stuff out that people have done hundred times before, no insult intented.

We have alot of idea's alot of fluff to support it, but it all comes down too GW created two missing legions, to make us by there novels for evidence, and discuss the game and get involved, also so people can make very expensive Pre-Heresy armys of the missing legions.

**deadratman**

All 'bout the money these days.THE FILTHY BLOOD MONEY!!!!!!!!

**Xav**

GW are money grabbing Sh*t Heads.

**Emperors Faithful**

Wow, aren't you being just a little harsh?

**Alpharius**

Given that we still "know" about the Traitor Legions and given what they actually did (or tried to do), just what could the {deleted} two legions have done that was...worse?

I mean, the Emperor's Children were running around on Terra rendering people down into drugs!

**Emperors Faithful**

Good Point Alpharius. Perhaps theirs was a earlier heresy that was kept under wraps by the Emprah to avoid moral blow/ideas amongst the other Primarchs.

I'm all for the Unkown legions being either lost to us through a warp storm, utter anhilation early in the crusades (beforeb other primarchs) or simply never being found and their legions being subsidised into other legions to replace the losses.

Also, if a primarch was never found, and if he wasn't killed by an enemy, how long would they live? 10milenium? (look hopeful)

**Grim.Badger**

Emperors Faithful wrote:Also, if a primarch was never found, and if he wasn't killed by an enemy, how long would they live? 10milenium? (look hopeful)

Well the Space Marines only use inplanted genetic material from them (i.e. they're not clones) and they can live for over 1000 years, throw dreanought armour into the equation and you get old Bjorn! So yes the primarchs could easily live for 10k years.

It would be interesting if GW decide to ditch the whole *missing* idea and bring one of the legions back, you would have to seriously downgrade the power of the Primarch for gaming though; but then they do the same with the C'Tan and Daemon princes.

**Emperors Faithful**

Primarch Sigmar! Head of the...Zeolot-people-who-love-comets-hate-beastmen-legion...? Don't know if it would work.

**Grim.Badger**

It would be nice for us SM players to have a primarch to rally behind, but then I suppose that's what the chapter masters are for

Plus we'd probably just start arguing and creating civils wars because we don't like what they have to say

**Canonness Rory**

Rowboat is still technically alive.

**Emperors Faithful**

@Grim.Badger: After scouring through some old White Dwarf I found out GW did use to sell the 40k size model of Leman Russ (with two wolves). There were no rules for him and he was mainly a collectible. Also, the miniture looked crap.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rowboat = Roboute Gulliman or...?

**cadbren**

Yes he is and apparently el'Jonson is asleep somewhere in the lowest reaches of the Dark Angel's rock. I believe Vulkan is thought to be alive as well as Leman Russ.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
What happened to the White Scars primarch?

**H.B.M.C.**

Trapped on Kommorah (SP??), endlessly fighting in the Dark Eldar gladatorial pits.