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Jimsolo wrote:If you check out the fluff in the Space Marines codex, it would seem to indicate that Gulliman managed to carve out his own little chunk of the empire, and that to date, it's the only part of the Imperium that seems like a decent place to live. The problem with Gulliman and the Ultramarines is that they are the best, and don't have any of those little character flaws that make a character interesting to audiences.

That perfection is what made me read all five of the Ultramarines novels!

And yes, he is a total jerk. I love the Ultramarines, but Guilliman is a jack-off.

It makes me lolz to think that slaanesh did something good for once by having fulgrim kill him.

Of all the primarchs, guilliman is probably the most boring to me. He seems like a "daddy's little girl" Type of character. He wrote a book.....and that's it. Oh,and he got killed by those filthy slaaneshimarines. Great. If slaaneshimarines can kill you, you should have died earlier.


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TyraelVladinhurst wrote:

aka_tizz wrote:What i haven't seen stated around is this :
During the Great Crusade, there were 20 Legions, each 10.000 strong. That would make 200.000 Marines, plus the Guard accompanying the respective Legions and their expeditions. And those forces conquered thousands of planets.

Now, in the present 40k time, there are around 1000 Chapters, each with roughly 1000 Marines, making a total of 1.000.000(!!!) Astartes, plus the Guard. But, the splitting into Chapters has rendered this 5-times-bigger-than-the-Crusade-time number of Marines totally useless, making it impossible for any leader to attain power and use it wrongly, but also preventing them from uniting and starting another Great Crusade.

Furthermore, the Codex works only for the Astartes, and it was totally useless to prevent the rise of Vandire and his reign, while being even more useless in causing its downfall.

This is what the Codex actually did. While (arguably) preventing another (Astartes) Heresy, it also prevented the Imperium from starting campaigns of conquest of the magnitude of the Great Crusade

wrong, raven guard had atleast 80000 and they were one of the smaller legions

Wrong, the thousand sons had less that 5,000 in the battle for prospero, and that was their "Ultramar"

except you know the books and audio books are a good source of info. raven's flight stated the raven guard went to istavaan V with 80,000 marines and left with about 5 or 6 thousand

Sorry for the misunderstanding, I'm not saying that they [the books] aren't.

To clarify, when I said all the numbers are bull, I meant that numbers chosen from the fluff about total no. of marines/chapters/etc... are largely irrelevant. Not that anyone on the thread was lying.

They are numbers selected by one GW staffer writing one particular piece at one particular time. This kind of information is not cross checked when future bits of fluff are written (although I suspect the novels will become more rigorous on data checking as they produce a lengthy history for themselves) so the numbers fluctuate a fair bit between various sources.

The GW universe is not like tolkien's middle earth - the nitty gritty work on nailing down the full history of the universe hasn't occurred (and it would be a waste of time to do so). If I asked a series of GW staff what the population/economy/maximum guard tithe for the whole of segmentum tempestus I would get very different answers.

I only suggest sources so that we can see where each person got their information from. Helps reduce pointless arguments

PS. post above proves the point . WHY are the numbers that someone else stated wrong? Say WHERE you have correct figures from that show the correction. Sorry to pick on a particular person, just a useful example.

The alpha legion is poop. Pick a side and stick with it.

Samus_aran115 wrote:The alpha legion is poop. Pick a side and stick with it.

And that was related to topic/current discussion in what manner?

Guitardian wrote:I think, much like the old testament bible, a lot of numbers are lost to the ages, and more mythological than factual. When someone says 'millions' it doesn't necessarily literally mean 'millions'. Given the modern U.S. military has about 50,000 deployed and that's just in a few areas of a single planet, I would think the Legion numbers for a whole galaxy being occupied would number a lot more. It's just good propeganda to fudge the numbers in the records ("We conquered the galaxy with only a few good men!") makes their mystique that much more chuck norris-ey.

You might want to check your figures during the second war for Iraq the US deployed over 150,000 troops they currently have upwards of 50,000 deployed in Afghanistan alone.

understood sir, the first number is what I was referring to, but it is all pretty obvious that men numbering in the thousands can't take a single country let alone a planet. That's what I was getting at, not the details of gulf war numbers.

guilliman may have been killed by fulgrim but hey at least he fought the word bearers durring the heresy.... actually come to think of it fulgrim has taken down more primarch's then any other deamon primarch

Guitardian wrote:understood sir, the first number is what I was referring to, but it is all pretty obvious that men numbering in the thousands can't take a single country let alone a planet. That's what I was getting at, not the details of gulf war numbers.

Well, thats normal humans vs Superhuman agumented super warriors that are 8ft tall.

Besides SMs don't fight insurgents, thats what Guard are for.



Space Marines are held by most of the Impierium's populace to be invincible angels of death.

most Planetary rebellions immediatly capitulate at the appearence of a Space Marine vessel, very few will actually be willing to fight Space Marines. If the SMs actually have to fight them then it is a quick battle and the SMs hang around untill a few Guard reguiments show up to actually hold the planet.

Marines use their reputation to full effect and will gladly prove it true if needed.



Besides, if the U.S army didn't go out of its way to avoid collateral Damage like the IG and SMs the war would be over very quickly as insurgents would run out of places to hide.

And that's why Marines aren't the army of the Impeirum, the Guard is. Marines also cannot defend the Imperium, either. What htey can do is devastate vital targets.

aka_tizz wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:The alpha legion is poop. Pick a side and stick with it.

And that was related to topic/current discussion in what manner?

Ironic then, isn't it, that I'm here to remind people to stay on topic?

(And, the Alpha Legion (well, some of it!) never switched sides - so, there!)

Grey Templar wrote:

Guitardian wrote:understood sir, the first number is what I was referring to, but it is all pretty obvious that men numbering in the thousands can't take a single country let alone a planet. That's what I was getting at, not the details of gulf war numbers.

Well, thats normal humans vs Superhuman agumented super warriors that are 8ft tall.

Besides SMs don't fight insurgents, thats what Guard are for.



Space Marines are held by most of the Impierium's populace to be invincible angels of death.

most Planetary rebellions immediatly capitulate at the appearence of a Space Marine vessel, very few will actually be willing to fight Space Marines. If the SMs actually have to fight them then it is a quick battle and the SMs hang around untill a few Guard reguiments show up to actually hold the planet.

Marines use their reputation to full effect and will gladly prove it true if needed.



Besides, if the U.S army didn't go out of its way to avoid collateral Damage like the IG and SMs the war would be over very quickly as insurgents would run out of places to hide.

ironic isn't it that that reputation started with the night lord's legion. anyone who doesn't believe that read their index astartes artical