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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/21 09:56:10
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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Ouze wrote:This, this, a thousand times, this. If you want to mix factions, there should be no penalty - there are literally limitless reasons why the aims and motivations of Slaneesh and Khorne might coincide temporarily, fluffwise - but the game would be markedly improved if there were bonuses for "pure" armies. And not just Chaos, either. Rather then remove allies from DH armies, there should be a bonus to a pure Sisters/GK/etc type army. Good thinking! Glad to see I'm not crazy and there are some people who can see beyond " You just want Iron Warriors back/Daemon Bomb back/[insert other idiotic assumption here] back!" whenever I talk about restoring options, how the Books of Chaos were not restrictive, and how a game with more options and more rewards for playing the fluff would actually be of great benefit to 40K as a whole. Chimera_Calvin wrote:For example - in chaos armies if your general has mark of <insert greater power here> then he can have units with the same mark, unmarked or undivided. If your general has mark of chaos undivided, he's one of those rare individuals who has risen to power without being tied to one particular patron deity. Such a general can have they want in an army, but make MoCU a very expensive upgrade for the general concerned... A unit's worth what a unit's worth. Making any unit more expensive (or cheaper for that matter) in certain situations or in certain combinations defeats the purpose of a comparison-based points system. Besides - you're doing exactly what I said not to do - giving a negative for not playing the fluff. No negatives for not playing the fluff - only positives for playing the fluff.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/21 09:56:27
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/21 13:46:49
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Malicious Mandrake
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H.B.M.C. wrote:
Chimera_Calvin wrote:For example - in chaos armies if your general has mark of <insert greater power here> then he can have units with the same mark, unmarked or undivided. If your general has mark of chaos undivided, he's one of those rare individuals who has risen to power without being tied to one particular patron deity. Such a general can have they want in an army, but make MoCU a very expensive upgrade for the general concerned...
A unit's worth what a unit's worth. Making any unit more expensive (or cheaper for that matter) in certain situations or in certain combinations defeats the purpose of a comparison-based points system. Besides - you're doing exactly what I said not to do - giving a negative for not playing the fluff. No negatives for not playing the fluff - only positives for playing the fluff.
Yes! This!
+1
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Nids - 1500 Points - 1000 Points In progress
TheLinguist wrote:bella lin wrote:hello friends,
I'm a new comer here.I'm bella. nice to meet you and join you.
But are you a heretic? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/21 13:59:06
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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George Spiggott wrote:Hahahaha! £20 for four one piece sculpts from 20 years ago. Oh my sides!
They don't even supply the correct backpacks for these 'classic' figures. They were nothing special then and they're nothing special now so why they are worth £5 each is a mystery.
It proves that GW can get the old moulds out when it suits them. Now perhaps they would like to start recasting old figures that are actually in short supply and in high demand on eBay?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/21 14:13:20
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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Like maybe putting up the Necromunda sculpts they no longer sale back up.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/21 23:58:54
Subject: Re:New pre orders up..
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Ruthless Interrogator
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Noisy_Marine wrote:Cadaver wrote: (not that CSMs really has tons of options, but what is a diehard Chaos player to do these days?  )
Wait and hope? Play other games in the meantime?
Wait and hope I guess. I don't even have an army currently. I sold my Death Guard last year. I'm not big enough of a tabletop gamer that I need to go to other game systems. I play 40k(or you know, I played) because I like the universe. No other game I've looked at really interests me, and that even includes WFB. I have always played 40k and the 40k Specialist Games, and nothing else. If there's nothing that interests me with 40k, I'd just stick to video games.
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You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original. - Andy Chambers, on the evolution of Games Workshop games |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/22 02:15:29
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Sword-Wielding Bloodletter of Khorne
Oklahoma
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H.B.M.C. wrote:BrassScorpion wrote:People who want to restrict their army lists based on 40K lore are still free to do so, while those of us who never liked it that much are now free of those restrictions. It's win-win.
Klawz wrote:Are they penalizing you for playing by the fluff? No! All it does is allow for more gaming options!
The idea that following the fluff is somehow 'restrictive' is, of course, an ass-backwards way of looking at it, as it is a terrible method for writing rules. I don't know how many times I have to restate this, but here goes:
Fluff and Power should be congruous. The more fluffy your army, the powerful your army should be. Want to mix Khorne and Slaanesh? That's fine. But if you take a Khorne-Only army you should gain a tangible in-game benefit for doing so ie. the more you follow the fluff, the more the game should reward you.
Believe it or not, both Jervis and Gav Thrope have stated that people often don't remember the small penalties that come with lists and units (Open Topped Vypers, Mastery Tests on Daemon Weapons), but they do remember the small rules that benefit them (free Aspiring Champions for having Sacred Number units is a good example). For this very reason it makes sense to treat following the fluff with army construction as a benefit, giving actual bonuses and advantages to armies that follow the fluff. And I'm not just talking about Chaos, I'm talking about any army. Want to take Vulkan and Shrike in the same list? Ok, fine, but you should get neither option for Chapter Tactics, where as a proper Raven Guard army should be the only one to benefit from Shrike's rules (and I'll leave the idiotic need for special characters aside for this treatise).
Should you be restricted to only fielding God-specific forces? I don't think so. But you should be rewarded for playing all-Khorne or all-Tzeentch rather than just finding the best bits of each and conjuring up a NetDeck list (Fatecrusher! YAY!).
H.B.M.C. a man after my own heart.
I rather like the 4 pack of the older models. I rather enjoy seeing models that have no real use other then to look cool. The familers look neat as well. I have the first set they made and was fun to paint and I imagine these will be as well.
And to add to everyone else the bloodcrushers are very nice. I may get a box just to build and paint as well.
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Can't you see we have been abandoned? Forget matters of duty and honor to the emperor this is now a matter of pride. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/22 10:12:10
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Tunneling Trygon
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I'm really annoyed. Kairos wasn't a suprise for me, but the Bloodcrushers? WTF!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/22 10:26:52
Subject: Re:New pre orders up..
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Barpharanges
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Buying 3 of the old metel bloodcrushers would be 54£! without icon , champion and instrument , any way i am going to buy them of total wargamer  .
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The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/22 11:58:51
Subject: Re:New pre orders up..
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
York, North Yorkshire, England
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The traitors of chaos are nice for a collector, bit on the expensive side, but £5 for a metal model is roughly right. hope they are available for a while, will prob pick some up in time.
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| Imperial Guard-1000pts | Eldar-1000pts | Space Wolves-1000ptsWIP|
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| High Elves-1500pts | Dwarfs-1500ptsWIP|
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| Trollbloods-35ptsWIP|
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http://projectpictor.blogspot.co.uk/ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/22 16:21:33
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I'm reminded of the old cavalry, when it went from $10 per model to a box of 8 for $35.
I guess GW got smart, not to do like this.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/22 16:46:45
Subject: New pre orders up..
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[DCM]
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JohnHwangDD wrote:I'm reminded of the old cavalry, when it went from $10 per model to a box of 8 for $35.
I guess GW got smart, not to do like this.
Either that, or we got dumb!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/22 18:45:39
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Of course, they're now $15 each (Dragon Prince), so you look at paying $35 for 8 (Silver Helm).
The $30 Bloodcrusher is a Character, then 3 metal Bloodcrushers should be only $75 ($25 each, discounting the character bump).
If $120 metal cav = $35 plastic cav, then a $75 metal BC set should be a $25 plastic box, not $54. Which is how it's designed and sprued, taking the same 3-panel sprue as the Daemonettes and Bloodletters.
But hey, if people are going to pay the $54, the go GW!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/22 18:59:32
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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So, they go from £18 each with no options, to £11 each with all possible options, made from a material thats 1,000x easier to convert and work with.
They will balance alot better now due to 2 point basing in plastic (2 contact points on them in metal was evil)
All in all, i see people buying them despite the price.
All i can say is, they are better than kanz IMO, they look great, allow for easy converting, and in general the kit is well designed.
Im still going with the origional plan of getting 24 of them, even if they are a few £ more than expected.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/22 20:40:02
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis
Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)
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@johndwang Except you got the amount that standard BC's cost. They were 29.50 before they took them off the website. And comparing standard cav w/monstrous cav is also not an even comparison. Basically they went down between 40%-45%. And that doesn't count the fact that you get the command models now.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/22 20:40:16
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/22 20:52:01
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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@hs: $29.50 is $30.
Standard cav is 8 per box (at least 4 sprue panels, often 5 or 6 sprue panels) vs 3 monstrous cav (only 3 sprue panels).
So even at $25 for 3 BCs, you're getting ripped off when the standard cav shows you should get 5 or 6 BCs for $35/$40, paying an equivalent price per sprue panel.
Also, it'd be nice if you simply referred to me as "John" or "JHDD", rather than mangling my name. Thanks!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/22 20:58:41
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis
Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)
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So you think that GW should give you over a 66% discount because they shifted it to plastic? Your probably never gonna be happy John. It's not a core/special choice. It's a limited number fielded unit. More 40k guys are gonna pick this up than fantasy so compare it to KK's or Terminators which while it is more expensive it isn't by much.
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Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/22 21:04:01
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
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So what your saying is alot of things should be cheaper john.
For a tactical unit of Legion of the damned it costs £48
For a tac squad that has the same, but more options its £22.50.
You cant compare units/models that are nowhere near the same.
To be honest, its good enough they are cheaper, let alone by this much.
Also, sprue panels mean nothing john.
Clanrats come in 20 per box, and have 2 panels.
Plague monks come in 20 per box and have 4 panels. (+ more parts)
Both units cost the same.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/22 21:07:26
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I think that GW can charge whatever they like, and that they're charging an excessive amount.
Silver Helms aren't core - they're special, and 8 for $35, and they're not cross-sold to 40k.
I won't be buying them, just like I refused to buy the Terminators at $50, and I refuse to buy Greatswords or other clearly overpriced models.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/23 06:44:51
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Ancient Chaos Terminator
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just like I refused to buy the Terminators at $50
So did I, yet I have massive amounts of them, Imperial and Chaos, metal and plastic.
Certain sets I buy at the local store to support it, but the more expensive sets, especially ones of which I want to have multiples, for those I look for deals as do I believe most "veteran" hobbyists.
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"I hate movies where the men wear shorter skirts than the women." -- Mystery Science Theater 3000
"Elements of the past and the future combining to create something not quite as good as either." -- The Mighty Boosh
Check out Cinematic Titanic, the new movie riffing project from Joel Hodgson and the original cast of MST3K.
See my latest eBay auctions at this link.
"We are building a fighting force of extraordinary magnitude. You have our gratitude!" - Kentucky Fried Movie |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/24 18:06:54
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator
painted 2k dkok army for sale! ends MAY 29TH http://www.ebay.com/itm/2k-pro-painted-astra-militarum-
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porkuslime wrote:Yeah... (sarcasm).. the Traitors of Chaos (on the US site)..
$33 for 4 metal chaos marines? Get real!
Those are 4 OOP collectors range.....It's like $8 each.... I see these on ebay for $10 to $14 each used.....
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painted 2k dkok army for sale! ends MAY 29TH
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2k-pro-painted-astra-militarum-forgeworld-death-korps-of-krieg-army-case-codex-/281342932237?pt=Games_US&hash=item418158750d |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/24 21:27:51
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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spartanlegion wrote:porkuslime wrote:Yeah... (sarcasm).. the Traitors of Chaos (on the US site)..
$33 for 4 metal chaos marines? Get real!
Those are 4 OOP collectors range.....It's like $8 each.... I see these on ebay for $10 to $14 each used.....
The ones you see on eBay for $10 to $14 are the ones that don't actually sell. The prices for the ones that actually sell are significantly cheaper.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/25 10:40:45
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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Fateweaver in metal? I'll give it a miss...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/25 12:26:50
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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jamunition wrote:Fateweaver in metal?
You were expecting a Greater Daemon - and a Special Character no less - to be in plastic?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/25 13:09:56
Subject: Re:New pre orders up..
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Monstrous Master Moulder
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Fateweaver was always going to be in metal, it's the rule with SC's as H.B.M.C. said, however I think this business with the Bloodcrushers is getting silly, they are £18 each now and will be about £10.80 each shortly. quite a saving in my books! Not to mention the cross-system compatability, ease of assembly and more options etc. Then again, if they put £5 in a box and charged £1 for it, people would still moan.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/25 13:12:03
Bewhiskered Gasmasks: For the Post-Apocalyptic Gentleman
And to this day, on darkest nyte
It can be seen, they tell
A Prynce of Rattes, in finery
Upon a horned bell.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/25 16:33:12
Subject: Re:New pre orders up..
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[DCM]
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P4NC4K3 wrote:Fateweaver was always going to be in metal, it's the rule with SC's as H.B.M.C. said, however I think this business with the Bloodcrushers is getting silly, they are £18 each now and will be about £10.80 each shortly. quite a saving in my books! Not to mention the cross-system compatability, ease of assembly and more options etc.
Then again, if they put £5 in a box and charged £1 for it, people would still moan.
The "Dakka Dakka will complain about everything" meme is more moan worthy, at this point.
People (myself included!) may react instinctively at first, but in the end, if it is a ridiculous price, it won't sell.
I'm still wondering how well the Goldswords performed...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/25 16:43:05
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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JohnHwangDD wrote:I think that GW can charge whatever they like, and that they're charging an excessive amount.
Silver Helms aren't core - they're special, and 8 for $35, and they're not cross-sold to 40k.
I won't be buying them, just like I refused to buy the Terminators at $50, and I refuse to buy Greatswords or other clearly overpriced models.
Price for Silver Helms was set when they were core.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/25 16:48:36
Subject: Re:New pre orders up..
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Grisly Ghost Ark Driver
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Picked up some paint and basing material at my local store and I saw they got in all the preorders. My heart was so broken when I saw the Daemon Prince and could not buy it, the owner could definitely tell as he said they will be on sale August 7th and he'll reserve me one then. :( I want it now.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/26 05:10:09
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Most Glorious Grey Seer
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Want one plastic Jugger to convert into a Taurus for my Space Marine Commander to ride into battle.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/26 11:41:03
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!
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Well surely the whole point of GW prices to offset the discount retailers?
They know the discounters will sell low so they set a retail price that takes that into account.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/07/26 11:47:36
Subject: New pre orders up..
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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Big P wrote:Well surely the whole point of GW prices to offset the discount retailers?
They know the discounters will sell low so they set a retail price that takes that into account.
I very much doubt that.
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