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Congrats for Team Germany for the fight to the last. The heavy loss against sweden was a bit awkward, I think there must have been a few mistakes...
But nevertheless. Great morale and finally a very good result.

And congrats to the US for a solid 5th place. Some guys here expected you worse, in fact I did not. It seems the US team is about european top level. That is nice to see and it will be an interesting tournament next year. Please come again US boys!

Maybe next year I will show up to the single player side event, but that depends on where it takes place (Germany or not...).

I'm curious, what is the "sling-shot" and "close the door" strategy?

Blackmoor wrote:5th is still a good showing for USA's first year.

So I hope that will silence all of the people who said:

1) American teams lists are bad.

2) Americans can't play with LOS blocking terrain.

3) Americans don't know how to play as a "team"

4) Americans play style is not at good as the European style.

Etc.

I agree a 100%

Ah but Blackmoor they might have done better with better lists

Grats to the US team for coming in in the top 20% in their first go round. Next year, We Win!

Actually - looking at this:

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=75481&sid=df608b5d655cf9453b9d3ac444e5f36a

It's a tie for fouth with Sweden right?

Great job any way - fighting huge jetlag and playing on foreign lands....

Congrats!

Blackmoor wrote:

So I hope that will silence all of the people who said:

1) American teams lists are bad.

Except they were, as evidenced by the fact that they didn't take first.

This is kind of wasted.

The US team did not take optimal lists, and was not selected by any kind of formalized process.

That said, they were the only guys who were willing to form a team and shell out to go over there and compete, they didn't bring terribad lists or anything, and they're mostly known players at least with some GT's under their belts.

So, seriously, don't knock 'em. Frankly, the fact that a handful of random GT-going Americans with suboptimal lists could go over there and crack top 5 their first time in the format against veteran attendees should tell you a lot more than just "Americans are as good as ..."

You don't have to praise them for going, but knocking them is a little unnecessary. It's not like "Better" alternatives were lined up to go and denied it.

Many of the American lists *were* bad, but many of the competition's list were bad as well.

Bad list for one person is NOT a bad list for someone else

All the internet list building stuff doesn't factor in personal play style, strategy, etc.

The guys went over there had good list for them and did well with them.

Nuff said

+1 at MVB

+1 Wildstyle

@Aldonis

Personal play style matters Aldonis. But I think I'm personally coming from wishing they'd have approached it differently than trying to play Europes game. That's my gripe with the lists

But again Grats to the US for a very nice showing in it's first run. Beating out all 4 UK teams....

I take a suboptimal list, and win basically every game with it. Saying a list is "suboptimal" isn't a knock ... I don't know why people have to think it is.

Veteran players make force multiplying things happen with "suboptimal" choices, as a regular rule.


If you want someone who has never played an instrument to simply make noise, give him a drum. He won't do a damned thing with a violin. But put a violin in the hands of a violinist ...

All the freak out over "suboptimal" and "bad" is annoying, b/c it's so irrelevant at a top level of competitive 40k. As I stated, their lists WERE suboptimal but were NOT bad. So what?



To any Europeans who think a bunch of random Americans showing up and beating most of you means anything (Bad or good) ... shut up.
To any Americans who are pissed it wasn't "them" or that the Americans weren't "optimized list wise" and let us down or whatever ... also shut up.

Bravo for even spending the damned money and time organizing and going over.

Bigger bravo for wearing vibrant American attire.

With as much sweet, sweet irony as I can muster after a long day ... all you negative nancies can fuggin' suck it!

Blackmoor wrote:5th is still a good showing for USA's first year.

So I hope that will silence all of the people who said:

1) American teams lists are bad.

2) Americans can't play with LOS blocking terrain.

3) Americans don't know how to play as a "team"

4) Americans play style is not at good as the European style. 

Etc.

^ This.
If you have played at Adepticon then you know that for most of us the first year is mostly a learning experience. That is what these guys had to do and to make the top five out of over 20 teams is very impressive.

Something interesting to me about the terrain blocking LOS comment - same terrain at both Adepticon and BoLScon this year. IG was brutal at Adepticon since terrain was played purely as TLOS and not area terrain. Different situation completely in Austin as all terrain was played as area terrain providing the much needed cover versus the IG... IG did not do nearly as well at BoLScon. To me LOS blocking terrain makes the game more even on an army wide level. So it should not be a big deal and two members of the American team did very well in Austin so it's a non issue.

As far as lists go they all started to look pretty much the same after you reviewed the lists for several countries. It's not like you cross a border and suddenly it unlocks some crazy power builds no one else was ever aware of outside of that area. With the advent of the Internet there are very few secrets except when a new codex is released and that new ness quickly wears off.

The American team should be very proud with their performance considering it was their first time there. Looks like they planned very well and were able to deliver. It wasn't until the last two rounds when they had to face-off against some of the other top teams that they slowed down a bit, which is to be expected.

I have an idea, instead of playing all area terrain, or all LoS blocking, why not stick to a mix, as the rulebook instructs us.

Hulksmash wrote:+1 at MVB

+1 Wildstyle

@Aldonis

Personal play style matters Aldonis. But I think I'm personally coming from wishing they'd have approached it differently than trying to play Europes game. That's my gripe with the lists

But again Grats to the US for a very nice showing in it's first run. Beating out all 4 UK teams....

Looks like they played "Europe's Game" (whatever that is) and did pretty well.

Having played against several of the guys that went in the past at tournaments - I'm not at all surprised that they did well....nor do I think they had "weak" lists - just list tailored to them.

So I guess Hulksmash couldnt make it huh. Or maybe the team didnt want to sit on the plane next to a guy saying "+1!!" every time someone agreed with him.

WTF is wrong with you people? Stop making it personal with human beings you don't even know across the internet. Worst memes of forums writ large.

PanamaG wrote:So I guess Hulksmash couldnt make it huh. Or maybe the team didnt want to sit on the plane next to a guy saying "+1!!" every time someone agreed with him.

+1

MVBrandt wrote:

Bigger bravo for wearing vibrant American attire.

Haven't read the thread, but clicked on the last page and saw this.

Details?

The WFB guys had american shirts/ shorts and a few guys had American Flags for bandana's and physical flags with them. Congrats to all the 40K & WFB guys who went. I'm happy there are guys out there willing to go overseas and duke it out with the other countries out there.

The WFB guys:
http://warmongers.ziggyqubert.com/wmbb/download/file.php?id=118&mode=view

I do not know the selection process for the event. However, as a fellow GT attendee I knew all the guys from both 40K and WFB and know they are all good sportsman and excellent players. I think every guy on the WFB has won a GT over the last year, or placed top 3. I'd have loved to have gone, but I think its important to sent the top guys available to these style events, as well as send a group that gels well together.

Good job guys, and congrats to those teams who put on a good showing and participated in a international event. Here's to hoping I get to show my face at one of these events in the future!

njpc wrote:
The WFB guys:
http://warmongers.ziggyqubert.com/wmbb/download/file.php?id=118&mode=view

That is awesome. Congrats to those guys.

njpc wrote:
The WFB guys:
http://warmongers.ziggyqubert.com/wmbb/download/file.php?id=118&mode=view

What country they from?

Seriously, good for the guys dropping the cash to fly over and nice job in the games.

Enough about the lists. 40k is not a game of lists. It's a game of skill and dice, random dice. Lists do not win games, people do.

I challenge MvBrandt and Hulksmash to make 8 lists from 8 different armies that are the 8 'optimal' lists. Do it or shut up. You probably can't because there are not 8 optimal lists. Anything you write up will be critized by people. Enough already.

PanamaG wrote:So I guess Hulksmash couldnt make it huh. Or maybe the team didnt want to sit on the plane next to a guy saying "+1!!" every time someone agreed with him.

Oh look, you're back.

Didn't all the WC drama last year cause you to have a hissy fit and ragequit Dakka?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarthDiggler wrote:

I challenge MvBrandt and Hulksmash to make 8 lists from 8 different armies that are the 8 'optimal' lists. Do it or shut up. You probably can't because there are not 8 optimal lists.

Wait, wut?

Do you even read what you post before you hit the Submit button?

Of course you can build 8 optimal lists for 8 different armies. It isn't really all that difficult. People have already done it on a few other sites.

DarthDiggler wrote:Enough about the lists. 40k is not a game of lists. It's a game of skill and dice, random dice. Lists do not win games, people do.

I challenge MvBrandt and Hulksmash to make 8 lists from 8 different armies that are the 8 'optimal' lists. Do it or shut up. You probably can't because there are not 8 optimal lists. Anything you write up will be critized by people. Enough already.

Why the slowed internet hate? I wrote off the optimal list thing as irrelevant, and gave the team props. You're ruining their props thread with hate. Grow up, think before you type, and practice reading comprehension. I'd rather we get along all fuzzy wuzzy on the internet than fight b/c you don't take the time to actually read what I write.

PanamaG wrote:blah blah blah

Oh! Lookee lookee! I have a 12 year old stalker who's signature is intended to ridicule me. How cute. One day you'll grow up and move on to stalk REAL people too!

Guys....I started this thread to talk about the ETC and the results of it.

Please take any personal things you have between each other some place else so the thread doesn't get locked. Don't need/want/enjoy the drama....

Congo Ratz Team America.... Fukk Yeah.

Yes I agree with Aldonis. Let's give praise to the team for their great job. They did so darn awesome! It's really cool.

Wearing the flag as attire is against the flag code...

@Panama & SV2.7

Cute

@Aldonis

What I meant by playing Europes game is that they went for the match-up style of play. Match-ups are important but if you gear your lists a certain way you negate the match-up portion of the tournament. Putting the ball squarely in your court as you've just taken their primary strategy out of the contest. Still they did a fantastic job even doing it Europes way which is awesome and deserves praise.

@Darth

Your still missing the point. It's not that I think lists are the be all end all. Read what I just wrote to Aldonis and you should get it. I personally don't understand the rage that is coming from certain people because of my viewpoint. I haven't insulted the players in the least. I've only given praise for their performance.

Add in the cash and dedication it takes for 8 guys to travel to Europe to play with little toy soldiers and I'm a little in awe. Especially since most of them didn't know super in advance to find the cheap tickets

Personally I'm looking forward to some of their battle reports and their thoughts on what to improve and their thoughts on the tourney in general.