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I'm going to say the wraithlord mainly because it has much more mobility imo. I mean the dread can pivot at the waist but aside from that the range & axis of mobility for the grapple arm are fairly bad compared to a wraithlord.

Wraithlord, simply because durability and agility beat durability alone

This question is like comparing a Scalpel and a Hammer. Both can kill, but a wielding a Scalpel takes Skill and ability, a hammer takes strength and brutality. Bottomline flip a coin, better yet roll a dice!

mwinciboo, I believe you've come the closest to answering this question, they both have distinct advantages and disadvantages, I for one would say the dread would win, they're not as slow as you'd believe I can remember reading a black library novel where I believe it was a Dark angels dread RAN and attacked another dread, please correct me gently if i'm wrong, and yes a dread is metal and a wraithlord is bone and they're both pretty tough, you wouldn't make a walking tank out of paper would you? but the mechanical strength of the dread would be amazing! and having a low centre of gravity would help it as well, nothing says get a laod of this than taking off a wraithlords leg then watching it fall as you casually punch a neat hole through the spirit stone with an assault cannon! sure the dread is heavy but by gosh i am sure it would have the power to back it's bulk up and if it really connected it would seriously rock the tall skinny thing back at least a foot or two!


althogh this may sound strange, but whenever I think of a wrathlord vs a dreadnought I can't help but think of who would win a fight out of Burt or Ernie from sesame st?
same arguments...nearly

I'm still sure that if a primarch (Fulgrim in 'Fulgrim' HH novel) struggles to beat a wraithlord a dreadnought would have no chance.

Wraithlord gets knocked over, it gets back up. Dread gets knocked over, it flails its arms around like a beetle on it's back helplessly. It's not even a fair comparison.

True, true whatwhat, but first you need to knock it over, and there I believe lies the hard part ;-)

I don't know, you say it has a low centre of gravity. Looking at it, I disagree. All it's weight is up top.

Hmmm you may be correct but I would argue (feebly mind you) that the dread would be made with enough hydrolics rams and whatnot to counter any overbalancing issues, good solid feet well spaced 'toes' evenly weighted centre with evenly weighted arms, i'd even gues they'd have superbly oiled balls!....ball bearings i mean?

Khirean Goldhelm

He was one hell of a wraithlord and i agree with 'whatwhat', the wraithlord nearly beat fulgrim and managed to deliver a harsh blow to fulgrims chest. a dreadnaught would not survive a wraithlord.

Also the dreadnaughts gravity would not help it as it is heavy at the top and lighter at the bottom, which essentially forms a pivot which makes nothing more then a wraithlords kick end the fight.

Well if a wraithlord can beat a dread, that will make up for the fact that a bloodclaw can cleave his way through basically an entire eldar force...if he can catch them while they run away that is :-)


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You see, it all evens out in the end!

It all depends on the dread really. there are many kinds of dreads out there, some are built for fire superiority (double gun dreads) while others are built to be a walking wall (ironclad dreads)
and then theres the CC dreads. one in particular.. a BA death company dread with a blood claw and magna grapple. Yank the wraithlord into cc with the grapple and then rip it apart with an onslaught of claw attacks.

Being a Death Company Dreadnought, it is far quicker and perhaps even out-maneuver a wraithlord. Yes its pretty pissed off all the time, but if that wraithlord ever meets the death-dreads eyesight, consider it dead.

I argue again.
Not all dreads are clunky and stupid. these things are manned by used to be spacemarines, they know all their moves and tactics, they know their whole body like it was their own (literally) and most of the time dreads are 10 000 years old. and with it, they know the best ways to kill things even if its an already dead soul machine-thing.

Chaos dreadnoughts are like their loyalist counterparts, but they have been driven so completely mad that not even the most experienced wraithlord can guess the movements of such a beast.
What looks like a maddened beast flailing its arms randomly is actually a wrought out tactical maneuver to onslaught an enemy until an opening is given, in which it will increase its assault and begin attacking with even more deadly blows.

Though being incredibly unstable the machine might as well pull out its multimelta and begin firing like a mad man, unleashing so many shots that not even the wraithlord would survive it. sure the arms of the dread would have melted off from all the shooting.. but that can be repaired.

Dreads are monsters, sadly given an armor value when it comes to stats. but if they were to have a statline i would say.. same weaponskill, ballistic kill, 6 strength (10 with arms), 8 toughness(9 if ironclad), 5 wounds, initiative 4, 4 base attacks (+1 or -1 depending on arm layout), 2+ armor save, 4+ invulnerable
then see how they fight.

bucketwalrus wrote:.........most of the time dreads are Tens of thousands of years old

i call bs on this
great crusade was only 10 000 years ago
so unless these metal kans are older than primarchs....

Devastator calls 'barbed strangler?' :-)

Sorry i meant to say 10 000 years old. Which some are.

only one is that spess wolf one that sleeps about 90% of time

the space wolf one is the only fluff one present, but im pretty sure there is others out there with similar age. Chaos marines are immune to aging due to the warp. Many of them have lived since the heresy (10 000 years), including their dreadnoughts, be it they are a few apples short of a basket-full.

nerdfest09 wrote: and yes a dread is metal and a wraithlord is bone and they're both pretty tough, you wouldn't make a walking tank out of paper would you?

Nerdfest09 Didn't GW do that with the ORK Dread in 40k 2nd edition?

Also to everyone quoting fluff as evidence, remember that Space Marines in the HH series are like gods and never seem to die. On the table top mine go down like ducks at a Carnival Shooting stand, so I think artistic license is used. I mean the books would be really crap if the main protagonist got hit by a stray Frag Missile that killed him (failling his HH +2 invulnerable Black Library Save), and yet no matter how Heroic my character my Scatter dice know no distinction!

Ah yes Bjorn the fell handed, he'd do alright I reckon, and i'm pretty sure the Dark angels have a similar ven dread in there somewhere? obviously we actually need to make a dreadnought and a wraithlord to battle it out, i'm only young so I can wait a few years while we work it out, but in the meantime we can just argue until the cows come home :-)


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Ah how could I forget the famous paper dred from 2nd ed? I believe extra armour was paper mache though! and the emperor's spears worked well against them with water cannons!

bucketwalrus wrote:the space wolf one is the only fluff one present, but im pretty sure there is others out there with similar age.

so why havent we heard of these guys?
are they eating cake at backstake or something

Well Bjorn's been mighty busy just chillin' at fenris, and for the life of me the DA one slips my mind, although Bjorn did manage some damn good work against the thousand sons.... damn good work, they won't be trying to sell Avon on fenris any time soon.


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Not eating cake but probably drinking mead and ale!

I think we should MATH HAMMER this bad boy and find out which would win!

mwnciboo wrote:I think we should MATH HAMMER this bad boy and find out which would win!

this is in background board.......

I still dont see how wraithbone can possibly be snapped by the grip of a dreadnaught....because it cant, it would be like arnold swartsnegger trying to bend a titanium poll. hes massive and powerfull but just not strong enough to bend or break that poll.

And the dreadnaught is in no way a match in speed or mobility. the thing is stumpy and heavy, it might be quick but it will never be as quick as WL.

A wraithlord would crush a Dread in a one on one. The wraithbone construct could take an immense amount of damage before it went down, the Wraithsword is sentient so parrying it with a DCCW is much easier said then done, and if the wraithlord is equiped with a brightlance it's firing that into the drad at the same time it is fight in close combat as the gun is a shoulder mount.

From what your saying though unreal it appears your view of the WL is that it is indestructable! it's not by any means and niether is the dreadnought, I believe your comment about Arnold is slightly wrong, if you perhaps liken the battle to Arnold versus jet li? that may be closer, Arnie is strong as but jet is damn quick and they're both awesome at what they do, and individually they both seem the alpha fighter, but if jet got in quick enough Arnie would go down and if Arnie managed to get a shot in full force it'd break Jets ribs like twigs! this is how i see the WL Dread confrontation, i really don't believe the wraithbone construct would be as unbreakable as you;d like it to be, a good hit and it'd break like everything else.


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I still think of bert and Ernie fighting though!

Im not saying its indestructable im saying the dread isnt strong enough to break it, now if it were something stronger like a chaos defiler then the wraithbone would snap "like a twig" but a dread simply does not have the mobility or the strength, even if it got a grip on the arm or the leg. the WL isnt gonna stand there and take it, hes gonne bring the sword through the front or a brightlance to the its face, and since the dread has only one hand to grip, hes left exposed apart form the autocannon/ melta / las cannon which can be side stepped since their fixed position weapons apart form the up and down axes.

Nope the dread would have the strength easy! if you actually think about the size of the dreadnough in reality! the immense power the hydrolics could produce! look at a car crusher it crushes cars easy like butter, a dread would be bigger more advanced technically and built for combat so bye bye WL


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:-) and hello ongoing argument!

This is a close one. In game terms the Wraithlord would win for definite. In fluff terms it is so close. I have to say Wraithlord again though, even without a Wraithsword it can punch and kick its way through a Dreadnoughts armour and is much more strong and flexible thana Dreadnought. However, like I said, it is a very close one.

Up and down axis only because the models appear that way, i'm sure if they were created that the movement would be more fluid and they would be able to track with the other weapon arm.

nerdfest09 wrote:Nope the dread would have the strength easy! if you actually think about the size of the dreadnough in reality! the immense power the hydrolics could produce! look at a car crusher it crushes cars easy like butter, a dread would be bigger more advanced technically and built for combat so bye bye WL


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:-) and hello ongoing argument!

You just voided your own arguement because the WL is bigger and more advanced in tech then the dread......so i think youl find that dread at most would critically damage the wraithlord, but only in a dream does it have the means to kill one.

Need i remind you of Khiraen Goldhelm against Fulgrim..... and im pretty sure Fulgrim can take down a dread with ease