Games workshop yet again amaze me.

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**Shibboleth02**

How about when they don't even want you to talk about their own products? Weird.

**plastictrees**

This thread is really helping me pad out my ignore list.

**H.B.M.C.**

Polonius wrote:I guess in my world, providing space and hobby materials gratis grants a proprietor certain latitude in setting behaviour.

Which makes the core assumption that a type of behaviour was exhibited here that warranted the manager's actions.

We don't know that, so making judgements on that is pointless.

Polonius wrote:It's also not semantics.

Then it's a matter of sequence.

"Being made to leave" is usually preceeded by "I'm going to ask you to leave out if you don't stop _____". Both have the same end result - getting kicked out.

**Manchu**

generalgrog wrote:The point being the draconian Fascist state that a GW store must be, to enforce the "hush hush" of any other talk of another game system to go all "brown shirt" on them and threaten to boot them from the store.

I don't often agree with GG but he's hit the nail on the head this time. If I was chatting about WM to another customer and a redshirt asked me politely to talk about something else, I'd politely leave and politely never go back. I don't hate GW. I love them in many, many (heterosexual and platonic) ways. I would continue to support GW by buying their products from a FLGS. That way I could also support the FLGS.

**CT GAMER**

Ravenous D wrote:Well to be fair you went into GW and starting talking about the competitors.

Its like going to McDonalds with a bag full of burger king and talking about how awesome it is. Its GWs space that they pay for and you talking about other games could "potentially" hurt their sales.

there is a difference between walking in and going "hey everyone you should all go out and buy Warmachine, it's better than 40K" and someone saying "hey what did you buy" and you replying " a warmachine model". Not even close to the same thing and I would have gladly told the manager to go feth himself, left and never returned.

**H.B.M.C.**

I personally have never encountered the 'paranoia' about other game systems in any GW. I've even talked about BattleTech with staff members. The only absurdity I've ever really encountered was about secrecy, and denying new products, but that's a completely different story and not worth entering into here.

plastictrees wrote:This thread is really helping me pad out my ignore list.

Classy.

**Polonius**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Polonius wrote:I guess in my world, providing space and hobby materials gratis grants a proprietor certain latitude in setting behaviour.

Which makes the core assumption that a type of behaviour was exhibited here that warranted the manager's actions.

We don't know that, so making judgements on that is pointless.

Polonius wrote:It's also not semantics.

Then it's a matter of sequence.

"Being made to leave" is usually preceeded by "I'm going to ask you to leave out if you don't stop _____". Both have the same end result - getting kicked out.

Again, it's not. Because the former immediatly results in being kicked out, while the latter allows an option. According to your logic, when a cop says "Stop or i'll shoot" it's just as bad as if the cop actually shoots you.

And my point with the hospitality aspect of the equation is that GW is different from most other retailers in that it doesn't kick out people that never spend money. You can never spend a dime at a GW store and be greeted warmly, play games, use their paints, and BS with the staff for hours.

**Manchu**

H.B.M.C. wrote:I personally have never encountered the 'paranoia' about other game systems in any GW. I've even talked about BattleTech with staff members. The only absurdity I've ever really encountered was about secrecy, and denying new products, but that's a completely different story and not worth entering into here.

I once mentioned Dakka. Redshirt totally blanched and stammered "Well . . . well . . ." so I waved it away and changed the subject.

**H.B.M.C.**

I do remember bringing in a picture of the Fire Prism (the previous metal/plastic hybrid one), the upcoming Sentinel (the metal one from 2nd Ed) and the current Bloodthirster (but with the original head) before they were released and was greeted with "No! They're conversions!!".

Did have a staff member once tell me he played Black Templars, but never took their vows because they were "cheesy". Made me laugh. Another friend had a GW employee tell him that all plastic meant they could pass the savings onto the customer. My friend tried very hard not to laugh in his face.

But no draconian paranoia. Only really get that here.

**Jon Touchdown**

plastictrees wrote:
Jon Touchdown wrote:This has happened to me as well, it infuriated me.

I had just come from my FLGS (which is about a mile or two away) after a D&D session
(Because I am cool like that). I was at the time finishing painting a miniature for our game and was talking to one of my buddies from the game about the session(during which another player had made a serious comment to the DM that the enemy leader could not see us at a distance of 20 squares away because we were like a thousand feet away! Still a running joke).

I could sense using my veteran instincts that the manager did not exactly like us talking about the game and instead of asking us to stop pulled one of those creepy lean in between us and say "You guys talking about Warhammer?", I decided to joke with him (he was the new manger at the time and the old manager had a great sense of humor, old habits die hard) and replied "No, we are discussing my taxes". He took this to offense I am guessing and walked away.

I was about to use one of the store washes, to give my model the final touch when he spotted me with his bale eye. He had locked target and like a savage lictor was upon me before I could react.

Apparently GW store washes can only touch the pure GW models and I had broken this holy law written in stone somewhere deep in GW's brainwash.... I mean training center. I apologized and asked if I could purchase the wash and use it, to which I got a look similar to that a commissar would give a guardman if he asked "couldn't we just talk with the Tau?".

I was then informed that I would be able to purchase the holy wash and use it in a heretical manner at home and that I would need to remove my non GW stuff from the store (the only reason I had it inside was because I drive a 99 mustang and my car's trunk is not exactly roomy, and I was actually going to give it to my buddy to hold until next session)

I did not purchase the wash, and with tactical genius equal to Creed himself, left the store and purchased alternative products for my FLGS to benefit what I felt was the greater good.

So you were kind of a smart ass to a new employee, tried to paint a non-GW model with store paints, and then didn't buy anything.
Yeah, that's rough.

It was a light joke said in a joking tone not in anyway meant to offend, I could have after he invaded my personal space to the point of where I could smell his lunch.

Oshova wrote:
Jon Touchdown wrote:This has happened to me as well, it infuriated me.

I had just come from my FLGS (which is about a mile or two away) after a D&D session
(Because I am cool like that). I was at the time finishing painting a miniature for our game and was talking to one of my buddies from the game about the session(during which another player had made a serious comment to the DM that the enemy leader could not see us at a distance of 20 squares away because we were like a thousand feet away! Still a running joke).

I could sense using my veteran instincts that the manager did not exactly like us talking about the game and instead of asking us to stop pulled one of those creepy lean in between us and say "You guys talking about Warhammer?", I decided to joke with him (he was the new manger at the time and the old manager had a great sense of humor, old habits die hard) and replied "No, we are discussing my taxes". He took this to offense I am guessing and walked away.

I was about to use one of the store washes, to give my model the final touch when he spotted me with his bale eye. He had locked target and like a savage lictor was upon me before I could react.

Apparently GW store washes can only touch the pure GW models and I had broken this holy law written in stone somewhere deep in GW's brainwash.... I mean training center. I apologized and asked if I could purchase the wash and use it, to which I got a look similar to that a commissar would give a guardman if he asked "couldn't we just talk with the Tau?".

I was then informed that I would be able to purchase the holy wash and use it in a heretical manner at home and that I would need to remove my non GW stuff from the store (the only reason I had it inside was because I drive a 99 mustang and my car's trunk is not exactly roomy, and I was actually going to give it to my buddy to hold until next session)

I did not purchase the wash, and with tactical genius equal to Creed himself, left the store and purchased alternative products for my FLGS to benefit what I felt was the greater good.

LOVE IT! You put some definite effort into that sir, and you deserve a pat on the back. =D

Also I find it funny how D&D was how GW got started, and now just because they went their different ways the manager is annoyed by his employers ex (as it were) =p

Oshova

Darth Bob wrote:
plastictrees wrote:
So you were kind of a smart ass to a new employee, tried to paint a non-GW model with store paints, and then didn't buy anything.
Yeah, that's rough.

If the store manager was giving him, a paying costomer, the hairy eyeball every 10 seconds, I think he'd be completely within his right to be less than civil. This manager was obviously being a complete prick, and deserved the reaction he got.

Honestly, I think saying "You can't talk about anything except GW products in a GW store!" is a ridiculous rule. It really is like saying "You will be kicked out of MacDonalds if you so much as mention Burger King."

I did not say it in a hostile way and offered to pay for a wash. So I guess he did deserve it

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Think we already had that analogy once.
In the case of using in store wash on a D&D figure was it one of the old Citadel ones?
If not the analogy ought be:

It is like going into McDonalds with a Burger King and putting McRelish on your whopper.

NO it should read

It is like going into McDonalds with Burger King burger and putting McRelish on your whopper, then having an employee with bad breath ask you not to while invading your space. You then offer to pay for what you would like

plastictrees wrote:
Darth Bob wrote:
plastictrees wrote:
So you were kind of a smart ass to a new employee, tried to paint a non-GW model with store paints, and then didn't buy anything.
Yeah, that's rough.

If the store manager was giving him, a paying costomer, the hairy eyeball every 10 seconds, I think he'd be completely within his right to be less than civil. This manager was obviously being a complete prick, and deserved the reaction he got.

Honestly, I think saying "You can't talk about anything except GW products in a GW store!" is a ridiculous rule. It really is like saying "You will be kicked out of MacDonalds if you so much as mention Burger King."

No, you're totally right. How dare the store manager ask some random kid painting a non-GW model in his store what he's talking about. What a jerk. He's lucky that Jon Touchdown, the people's hero, didn't slash his tires.

These anecdotes are ridiculous. I've never been asked to leave a GW for talking about non-GW subject matter in over twenty years of going to GW stores in three different countries. These are A: isolated incidents that reflect purely on the employee and B: maybe, just maybe we aren't getting a complete picture from the random, anonymous people posting on the web.

I am not some random person, I am a regular customer of the store, I would not need to slash any tires because my thought level is above retaliation with aggression.

To be fair to him and I:

I:
-Offered to pay
-Know for a fact he is the ONLY employee of the store, so he doesnt exactly have any boss watching him
-Work with pissed off people all day, and conduct myself in a professional manner in my workplace

He:
-Runs a store by himself
-May of been just having a bad day

This is the internet as you say, and do not have to believe me. I am just sharing on the topic.

**Darth Bob**

plastictrees wrote:This thread is really helping me pad out my ignore list.

Oh no! What ever shall we do knowing some guy on the internet doesn't like us?

**Jon Touchdown**

Darth Bob wrote:
plastictrees wrote:This thread is really helping me pad out my ignore list.

Oh no! What ever shall we do knowing some guy on the internet doesn't like us?

Haha I know right, how will I ever sleep

**rabidaskal**

muppet slayer wrote:I supose but i am a loyal, and have been for many years, gw customer. surrley a convosation could not do that much damage.

Such an attitude is the first step on the road to HERESY!

**BeeLow01**

I think alot of the discussion here while well articulated misses the essential point - GW can make its policy whatever it wants. It may as a general matter prohibit any and all types of conduct in its store as long as it does so in ways not proscribed by the applicable law in the forum.

In the U.S. legal context, this means that they can't make policy that discriminates on the basis of race, gender, creed, religion national origin, or other narrowly defined classes. State and Local law consumer law may also limit GW's ability to enforce other policies -- though I can't think of a good example off hand.

This is a separate question entirely from what makes good business sense. It strikes me as logical that a endeavor of GW's magnitude has a commercial plan supported by market research to guide its policy on matters relating to other games inside its GW stores. I'm not sure what the research says or if they are necessarily on the right track here but it is not altogether unreasonable that a business strategy could prohibit the promotion of competitors on site.

Another question is the "oughtfullness" of GW's policies --whether it is "right" for them to so prohibit the types of behaviour reported by the OP.

As a strictly legal matter, however private companies acting on private property can set their policy with very little limitation.

**Manchu**

Actually, a lot of people have commented along those very same lines.

**BeeLow01**

Fantastic. Are you in the Bmore/DC area?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nvm, just saw you are in richmond.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ravens look good this year. Not sure the Defense will hold up..talented as they certainly are they are a little old.

**Manchu**

Nope.

<-- Richmond, VA

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BeeLow01 wrote:Ravens look good this year. Not sure the Defense will hold up..talented as they certainly are they are a little old.

Let's not get too off-topic but . . .

They'll be fun to watch, as always. That Jets game was intense.

Anyway, GW isn't so bad. Let's all support GW by buying their products at FLGS. They're gonna close down your local store/bunker anyway, regardless of sales.

**Athera**

Ravenous D wrote:Well to be fair you went into GW and starting talking about the competitors.

Its like going to McDonalds with a bag full of burger king and talking about how awesome it is. Its GWs space that they pay for and you talking about other games could "potentially" hurt their sales.

But actually if you talk to any of the higher ups, they claim that the other miniature games aren't their competition because Warhammer is so much better. They consider their competition to be things like xbox.

I've had the same conversation before with store staff. I play GW exclusively but I'm not new to miniatures games by any stretch. It's not an argument you'll win against me.

**Manchu**

Athera wrote:It's not an argument you'll win against me.

That GW is best or that Xbox isn't their main competition?

**BeeLow01**

Manchu wrote:
Athera wrote:It's not an argument you'll win against me.
That GW is best or that Xbox isn't their main competition?

Yeah what's the central question here? That GW/Mcdonald's can't/shouldn't tell people not to even talk about BK/Other games in store?

Or that they shouldn't preclude such talk because BK/other minis aren't the competition but that the competition is pastry shop up the street?

**Athera**

Manchu wrote:
Athera wrote:It's not an argument you'll win against me.
That GW is best or that Xbox isn't their main competition?

Neither. But since you're not following, there's no point in continuing.

**reds8n**

Athera wrote:no point in continuing.

Quite, still fret not I'm sure there'll be another thread 99% identical to this one along soon.