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You're right, it says full strength and IC weren't bought with the squad but added/joined in later

Q. Chenkov allows you to remove a Conscript
Squad. What happens to any independent
characters that were attached to that squad?
A. They are lost. As Chenkov’s ‘Send in the Next
Wave’ rule states that you remove the unit, and as
independent characters attached to units are part
of it when the rule is used, they are removed as
well. The rule also states that the new unit arrives
with as many models as its full-strength
predecessor. As independent characters aren’t
part of the unit when was purchased (they join it
later) they don’t count and will therefore be lost.
Chenkov’s officers are as disposable as his men


Right, the rule confused me with "and it's wargear" when you can't do anything to them but SitNW

THey were covering all bases I guess.

Makes a change!

It's a cheesy way to play but yes it is 100% legal. Non Ork players will argue til the cows come home but they lose. Snikrot's ability gives his "unit" the ability. When an IC joins a "unit" he becomes part of it.

Same situation as a painboy with an IC in the unit. The IC gains FNP

Personally, if my Ork-playing buddy chooses to do this, more's the merrier, where I'm concerned. It's not a very bright idea, this, not from where I'm standing. It's cool and crazy, just like everything else in the Ork codex. But a smart tactical decision? I'm not sure about that.

RustyNails wrote:So I guess bringing snikrot off the back side of the table with two warbosses on warbikes would be frowned at.

Yes, taking 3 HQ choices would indeed be frowned upon... and totally illegal...

As to Snikrott's rule including Ghaz (or any warboss or character joining the unit before it's deployed), I reckon it does, the language used is clearly inclusive rather than exclusive. This also applies to painboy's fnp.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

RustyNails wrote:So I guess bringing snikrot off the back side of the table with two warbosses on warbikes would be frowned at.

Yes, taking 3 HQ choices would indeed be frowned upon... and totally illegal...

As to Snikrott's rule including Ghaz (or any warboss or character joining the unit before it's deployed), I reckon it does, the language used is clearly inclusive rather than exclusive. This also applies to painboy's fnp.

Snikrot isn't an HQ Choice...

Ambush refers to Snikrot's kommandos. People are loosely applying this with the general rules for joining an IC to any unit. They are mutually exclusive of each other.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:Ambush refers to Snikrot's kommandos. People are loosely applying this with the general rules for joining an IC to any unit. They are mutually exclusive of each other.

It doesn't say "Snikrot and his Kommandoz" - it says "Snikrot and his unit".

His unit are kommandos, he is not an HQ nor an IC. He can never have another unit.

It's Orks. If it was any other faction with such an "oversight" in rules, well, maybe I'd argue against it, but Orks? Let them have their craziness, the more the better.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:His unit are kommandos, he is not an HQ nor an IC.

His unit also includes ICs who are joined to it, just so you know.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:His unit are kommandos, he is not an HQ nor an IC.

Incorrect. "his unit" is the unit he is part of.

When an HQ joins a unit the HQ is part of the unit. States it about 4 times in total, even mentioning at the end of the assault rules that the IC again becomes just another member of the unit.

Semantics in terms of how you are applying the term. I could really care less about the Give the Orks Some Luv sentiment.

Edited by Manchu. Keep calm & carry on.

If the unit of Kommandos could by itself Ambush - Ghaz wouldnt benefit from this. Ambush is conferred to the unit by paying the points for Snikrot. Since the benfit comes from him and not his unit - Ghaz can attach and benefit from the Ambush special rule.

That was full of logical fail. Conferring special abilities doesn't work that way.

Re-read the rest of the entire thread and see that they do.

Just like Liturgies of Blood works on the Chaplain's entire unit.

Or a Painboy's Dok's Tools work on everyone in the unit.

Ambush is the same idea.

Yeah - Im definitely struggling with the logic on this one. I want it to be true and there are times when I believe it to be. I would have a hard time explaining why its legal for Ghas to hitch a ride with Snikrot to someone that doesnt play Orks.

Doesn't that tell you that it's a sleazy move? If you feel that uncomfortable about it then don't do it. This first started with people who wanted to attach a warboss on a bike.

Imho, it's pretty clear how it's worded.

A painboy can only be bought for a nob squad, and his doc's tools states his unit gains FNP, does that mean a warboss wouldn't get it? Nope, he does.

Snikrot's rule states his unit can move in from any table edge, does this stop a warboss that joins the squad from benefiting? Nope, he does...

This is irregardless if it's a cheesy tactic or not. Personally I don't even think it's very practical to use, there's certainly more effective ways of using a warboss.

But from a pure rules aspect, it's legal.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:Doesn't that tell you that it's a sleazy move? If you feel that uncomfortable about it then don't do it. This first started with people who wanted to attach a warboss on a bike.

You have to announce Ghaz is attached to Snikrot. It isn't top secret.

As soon as your opponent realizes this, they simply deploy more than 6" away from the table edge. Then they move for their turn 1, because Ghaz can MAYBE come in Turn 2 from reserves with Snikrot.

You simply laugh, as you are 13" away from the edge, making it impossible for any squad member to reach you, then gun down the 435~ point squad.

Waaagh....make it 19 to be sure.

Thanks Greenbay - thats a simple clear way to explain it.

I dont think its a sleazy move at all.

Magnalon wrote:
You simply laugh, as you are 13" away from the edge, making it impossible for any squad member to reach you

Enjoy getting turn 2 multiassaulted in your back line by one of the best CC models around.

People who say "I'll just put my whole army over 18" from every board edge" either haven't walked around a table with a 18" measuring tape to see how big that is, or are doing exactly what the ork player wants. Not to say that it's a good idea to run the (perfectly legal ) tactic, but still.

It seems legit as shrikes "infiltrate" rule specificaly states another ic cant join and get the benefits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It seems legit as shrikes "infiltrate" rule specificaly states another ic cant join and get the benefits.

Gorkamorka wrote:

Magnalon wrote:
You simply laugh, as you are 13" away from the edge, making it impossible for any squad member to reach you

Enjoy getting turn 2 multiassaulted in your back line by one of the best CC models around.

People who say "I'll just put my whole army over 18" from every board edge" either haven't walked around a table with a 18" measuring tape to see how big that is, or are doing exactly what the ork player wants. Not to say that it's a good idea to run the (perfectly legal ) tactic, but still.

It's still easily doable to avoid it, and for such a huge amount of points that Snikrot squad would cost. You get at *least* one extra turn to move away. Pretty much everything but a parking lot can deal with it. The new Dark Eldar will crush it.

IMO it's like fielding Mephiston against someone who has no idea who he is. It will most likely table them the first time, but the next game, it's more manageable. And hey, it may not even come in until turn 5.

I would like to believe I am a good enough 40k Gamer that I'll never have to resort to this type of chicanery. What I have stated here is my best interpretation of these rules. Sure I have a bias. I think everyone does. So I could be wrong but what I have said is how I would play it. Some armies it's not that big a deal but others I think would naturally suffer. At the end of the day it is up to you, your opponents and the TO.

I wouldn't care to use it because it's basically a dice roll on whether or not 400+~ points comes in. I wouldn't hinge 1/3 or a 1/4 of my entire army purely on chance.

The only guaranteed positive with this setup is that you can still use Ghaz's Waaagh if he's not on the board.

You can do it.

I wouldn't personally; just seems a bit silly/bendy.

But it undeniably do-able.

I still dont get how it works. I hate to say it, but Ghaz is not part of the unit the entire game. He is part of the unit when shot at, but simply attached otherwise.

So, start of the game, you declare that Ghaz and Snik are in reserve together. This is fine. But Ghaz and Snik are not one unit in reserve, correct? He joins when deployed? But he cant deploy within 2 inches if ghaz has to walk on from your board edge while snik wants to go on the other board edge.

Edit: for clarity. Ghaz is an IC, and is a unit. Snik is a upgrade char, in a kommando unit. Snik's unit is kommandos. When an IC joins a unit, they are all treated as 1 unit. HOWEVER, they are a combined unit, the IC unit, and the Kommando unit. Snik's rule works on his unit. Ghaz is not a member of Sniks unit normally. Thus things that only affect kommandos dont affect Ghazghulls. When shot at, Ghaz BECOMES a member of the kommando unit. In that case, there is only 1 unit type, kommando. However, outside of shooting, Ghaz's unit type is not kommando.

DevianID wrote:But Ghaz and Snik are not one unit in reserve, correct? He joins when deployed? But he cant deploy within 2 inches if ghaz has to walk on from your board edge while snik wants to go on the other board edge.

Wrong.

As per the rules for Reserves, you can attach ICs to units in Reserves. They roll 1 die for Reserves and walk onto the table as one unit.