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scarletsquig wrote:In my industry (animation) we do random stuff like this all the time, and it's even encouraged.

There is a big different between the creative industry and the corporate industry.

GW's #1 problem is that it is a creative company that thinks it's a corporate one.. leading to "bug up it's butt" situations like these, when the upper management are the exact polar opposites of the guys in the shop in terms of personality.

Do you stuff like that for a major event that is pretty much just a huge marketing event? If you do then I guess we're just in two different places on this. Generally most retail companies above the store level are a corporate entity. Deal with it. It's a pity the manager dragged his staff down with him since like Kinghammer said, that store was restaffed not to long after.

Hulksmash wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:In my industry (animation) we do random stuff like this all the time, and it's even encouraged.

There is a big different between the creative industry and the corporate industry.

GW's #1 problem is that it is a creative company that thinks it's a corporate one.. leading to "bug up it's butt" situations like these, when the upper management are the exact polar opposites of the guys in the shop in terms of personality.

Do you stuff like that for a major event that is pretty much just a huge marketing event? If you do then I guess we're just in two different places on this. Generally most retail companies above the store level are a corporate entity. Deal with it. It's a pity the manager dragged his staff down with him since like Kinghammer said, that store was restaffed not to long after.

Indeed, I could see that as a piece of terrain at the actual store, especially a cityfight type table.

We had some joke pieces in my store. They were well done and most people found them quite entertaining. Other store managers (my then district manager) found them entertaining.

But I wouldn't in a million years have sent it to the regional HQ where VP's are gathering and getting everything ready for 1 of 2/3 National Games Day events. That would be suicide.

I may have had my issues and chosen to part ways with GW. I still don't like the way overall they ran their company internally back then. But this is one of those completely justified events.

Frazzled wrote:

BuFFo wrote:What a beautiful model.

Shame to the cavemen who decided to destroy it.

Reprimands should have been given out to the employees, but destroying such a wonderful work of art is just a crime, and the mark of a childish coward.

I'm betting you don't actually work do you...

Speak better English please.

Frazzled wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:In my industry (animation) we do random stuff like this all the time, and it's even encouraged.

There is a big different between the creative industry and the corporate industry.

GW's #1 problem is that it is a creative company that thinks it's a corporate one.. leading to "bug up it's butt" situations like these, when the upper management are the exact polar opposites of the guys in the shop in terms of personality.

Its not creative, its a borderline threat and completely inappropriate as a marketing piece . You don't mail something showing everyone dead in a burned out store. Or then again, maybe you do, which explains your post.

To be fair, I've often joked about wanting to burn the building down and I've had numerous people laugh and agree with me. I work for a international software company. I believe there is a difference in level of acceptability with regard to stuff like this. It depends on if you're working in a 'suit and tie' type of environment or a 'tshirt and Chuck Taylor's" sort of place.

Frazz, do people gasp or shift uncomfortably there if anyone were to make a crude joke? Does everyone refer to everyone else by formal social title and surname? Do you still use the early 1900s punch-based timecards to clock in and out?

SickSix wrote:It is not pretentious to think those guys are wrong and the piece was blatantly not to standard.

What is pretentious is "have you ever had a job?" And blindly referring to someone as a kid. Especially when you are the one
Who didn't understand what was posted. (referring to the kid comment)

I replied to the OP. That was my mistake. As the story has been explained further. And I know others here do not read every single post in a thread before responding.

I guess it got kinda lost in translation. The paragraph under "Have you ever had a job?" was supposed to explain further that as an employee you don't have the leniency to mess up assigned tasks. Not: "You, SickSix, haven't ever had a job so let me explain it to you." I see why you interpreted it in that way though.

To add to the "creative industry" argument. I too work in what's supposed to be a really creative industry, where I'm paid for being just that, a creative (weird title).

Sending stuff like that, even in my area of work, wouldn't be appropriate. Perhaps it would work as an injoke between me and a colleague. Definitely not to a company event though. No matter how creative it is or how many hours I've spent on it. It would most likely end with me getting a written reprimand and an appointment with a counsel.

And to restate, if you have a history of messing things up or aren't in a good relation to your higher ups, sending stuff like this just reinforces that you shouldn't be working in the company. SAOFR.

Frazz, do people gasp or shift uncomfortably there if anyone were to make a crude joke? Does everyone refer to everyone else by formal social title and surname? Do you still use the early 1900s punch-based timecards to clock in and out?

No of course not. The proper address is "YESSS MASTER!" and "Minions." We don't work by those new fangled timecards, thats for wimpy folk. Here we abacus until the candle melts down to the 16th hour. On Sunday we're regular slackers and only have to work until sunset.

This thread is too much. Why can't people see that they got bad to make something they weren't supposed too. Also, GW might not have none it was shop specific and it could have been taking very seriously. Almost with a degree of threatening. Im doubtful any of the employee's own money went into this and therefore, it is GW's own terrain to do with what they please. It is unprofessional and very immature. Plus, it's basically insulting GW right to their faces. Thats just a dumb idea.

This thread needs a new title or it needs to be locked. Totally misleading now that we know the whole story.

Frazzled wrote:

Frazz, do people gasp or shift uncomfortably there if anyone were to make a crude joke? Does everyone refer to everyone else by formal social title and surname? Do you still use the early 1900s punch-based timecards to clock in and out?

No of course not. The proper address is "YESSS MASTER!" and "Minions." We don't work by those new fangled timecards, thats for wimpy folk. Here we abacus until the candle melts down to the 16th hour. On Sunday we're regular slackers and only have to work until sunset.

Ah, yeah. I've worked for those places too. That kind of makes more sense then.

Mewiththeface wrote:This thread is too much. Why can't people see that they got bad to make something they weren't supposed too. Also, GW might not have none it was shop specific and it could have been taking very seriously. Almost with a degree of threatening. Im doubtful any of the employee's own money went into this and therefore, it is GW's own terrain to do with what they please. It is unprofessional and very immature. Plus, it's basically insulting GW right to their faces. Thats just a dumb idea.

What Virginia boy said. AKA kiods don't do this at home, unless you really do want to be fired (which clearly the manager did).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

daedalus wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Frazz, do people gasp or shift uncomfortably there if anyone were to make a crude joke? Does everyone refer to everyone else by formal social title and surname? Do you still use the early 1900s punch-based timecards to clock in and out?

No of course not. The proper address is "YESSS MASTER!" and "Minions." We don't work by those new fangled timecards, thats for wimpy folk. Here we abacus until the candle melts down to the 16th hour. On Sunday we're regular slackers and only have to work until sunset.

Ah, yeah. I've worked for those places too. That kind of makes more sense then.

AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE!

tjkopena wrote:Unless I'm missing some big piece of back story, I think some people here are totally evaluating it in the wrong light. It was made *by* GW staffers as a funny joke; I can't imagine it's any serious, negative commentary, and hardly tasteless in this milieu. I also can't imagine they were trying to throw it down on some very serious, highly sculpted table or anything like that. It's just, you know, fun, and a pretty great modeling job.

But, you know, this is serious business!!!

The big piece your missing, is that employees of a business were given specific instructions involving a project. Instead of doing what they were instructed to do, like all the other stores, they put time and money, (Not theirs, their employers), into what they wanted to do. They also did it in a manner that pretty much guaranteed they'd anger their immediate superiors. They didn't meet the goal, and in fact, flaunted it. No surprise they got fired.

The scenery piece was very cool. Too bad they didn't make it on their own time, and keep it at their shop where people could appreciate it.

mikhaila wrote:

tjkopena wrote:Unless I'm missing some big piece of back story, I think some people here are totally evaluating it in the wrong light. It was made *by* GW staffers as a funny joke; I can't imagine it's any serious, negative commentary, and hardly tasteless in this milieu. I also can't imagine they were trying to throw it down on some very serious, highly sculpted table or anything like that. It's just, you know, fun, and a pretty great modeling job.

But, you know, this is serious business!!!

The big piece your missing, is that employees of a business were given specific instructions involving a project. Instead of doing what they were instructed to do, like all the other stores, they put time and money, (Not theirs, their employers), into what they wanted to do. They also did it in a manner that pretty much guaranteed they'd anger their immediate superiors. They didn't meet the goal, and in fact, flaunted it. No surprise they got fired.

The scenery piece was very cool. Too bad they didn't make it on their own time, and keep it at their shop where people could appreciate it.

Exactly.

it doesnt look like the argument was about the piece, the diorama was probably a breaking point displaying bigger issues ie "we dont like working at GW".

Overall the diorama was really well done...the detail amazing...the symbolic message clear.

Its disapointing to see GW take a diorama so seriously....but it defantly represented prior and deeper issues.

There is a rediculous amout of blather about how "out of line" this model was for a professional company, how it didn't fit the requested specifications, could be percieved as a thread, was an insult, etc, etc, blah, blah.

Have we forgotten that:
-This is a company that manufactures burned out buildings of it's own.
-Encourages it's staff and participants to shout WAAGH!
-Makes toys that depict incredible violence.

GW is a company, but viewing the creation and submission of this bit of terrain though the eyes of someone in a financial institution or some other buttoned up corporate entity is just plain silly.

Eilif wrote:There is a rediculous amout of blather about how "out of line" this model was for a professional company, how it didn't fit the requested specifications, could be percieved as a thread, was an insult, etc, etc, blah, blah.

Have we forgotten that:
-This is a company that manufactures burned out buildings of it's own.
-Encourages it's staff and participants to shout WAAGH!
-Makes toys that depict incredible violence.

GW is a company, but viewing the creation and submission of this bit of terrain though the eyes of someone in a financial institution or some other corporate entity is just plain silly.

I suggest you do similar immediately. Send to corporate headquarters a nice drawing of you chained to wherever you work at, amidst the burned out ruins, and dead bodies of your comrades. Tell us how it turns out. Also be sure to tell us is just one police officer appeared or they brought a a pair to escort you out and whether or not you go to have a nice long chat with them.

I would like to point out, seeing as I do frequent the LA Bunker, that none of the 2004 staff is there anymore. I remember that lot, they were part of the reason I avoided visiting the bunker like the plague the first 5 years it was open. My favorite was when one of them lost it and started talking about how awesome space wolves and sisters of battle porn would be.

The current staff there is pretty cool, even if the manager does hit the corporate kool-aid a little hard.

Frazzled wrote: Send to corporate headquarters a nice drawing of you chained to wherever you work at, amidst the burned out ruins, and dead bodies of your comrades.

Games Workshop has now patented the latest edition to their line of products called Waroffice 2011.

Only available on the GW forums for $100 USD ($250 Australian).

"GW doesn't need more bad press... But..."

Troll much?

It was GW's to stomp, so I'm not too bothered by that. I really love the suggestion that the Games Day folks should have showed more respect by sending the "burning in effigy" back to the creators. Respect works both ways.

I've been in illustration and design for 24 years. I've made lots of gag illustrations. I've never been stupid enough to send them out of the art department, let alone expected a pat on the back for insulting the person paying for the work.

YMMV.

Sorry Eilif but just because the guys are selling toys, it does not excuse their immature behaviour.

Some people seem to have a misconception about "creative " businesses, and possibily what being creative entails.
Creative is not the same as, "Do what the heck you want!"

Frazzled wrote:
I suggest you do similar immediately. Send to corporate headquarters a nice drawing of you chained to wherever you work at, amidst the burned out ruins, and dead bodies of your comrades. Tell us how it turns out. Also be sure to tell us is just one police officer appeared or they brought a a pair to escort you out and whether or not you go to have a nice long chat with them.

Context my friend. Absolutely essential for the understanding of humor. Which was the point of my earlier post. It's not a threatening drawing sent out-of-the-blue to a corporate office. That would of course bring the reaction you mention above.

Instead, it's a humorous diorama meant to be set in the context of other burned out model buildings. Further, this all happened in the environment of a company where there is a long history of creative model-making, dark themed models and humor. The skulls, chains, explosions and death are to be taken as satire because they are all pulled strait from GW imagery and used to make a humorous statement about GW. Apprarently the upper management didn't agree with the humor, but the fact that they didn't call the police backs up my point that while they did not look kindly on it, they certainly seemed to realize that it was just the bozo's from up north taking the piss.

I'm not surprised they were eventually fired. No company is going to keep malcontent goof-offs around for long. However, I am surprised at the extreme reactions some folks here are having to the situation.

WarOne wrote:

Frazzled wrote: Send to corporate headquarters a nice drawing of you chained to wherever you work at, amidst the burned out ruins, and dead bodies of your comrades.

Games Workshop has now patented the latest edition to their line of products called Waroffice 2011.

Only available on the GW forums for $100 USD ($250 Australian).

No way baby, thats MY IP! Will sell IP for chocolate (and an army made up of space wiener dogs)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eilif wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
I suggest you do similar immediately. Send to corporate headquarters a nice drawing of you chained to wherever you work at, amidst the burned out ruins, and dead bodies of your comrades. Tell us how it turns out. Also be sure to tell us is just one police officer appeared or they brought a a pair to escort you out and whether or not you go to have a nice long chat with them.

Context my friend. Absolutely essential for the understanding of humor. Which was the point of my earlier post. It's not a threatening drawing sent out-of-the-blue to a corporate office. That would of course bring the reaction you mention above.

Instead, it's a humorous diorama meant to be set in the context of other burned out model buildings. Further, this all happened in the environment of a company where there is a long history of creative model-making, dark themed models and humor. The skulls, chains, explosions and death are to be taken as satire because they are all pulled strait from GW imagery and used to make a humorous statement about GW. Apprarently the upper management didn't agree with the humor, but the fact that they didn't call the police backs up my point that while they did not look kindly on it, they certainly seemed to realize that it was just the bozo's from up north taking the piss.

I'm not surprised they were eventually fired. No company is going to keep malcontent goof-offs around for long. However, I am surprised at the extreme reactions some folks here are having to the situation.

So in other words you're now backtracking. Come on, be a man and put your money where your mouth is. Do it.

EDIT: I'll stop now as I don't really want you to do that.

Eilif wrote: I'm not surprised they were eventually fired. No company is going to keep malcontent goof-offs around for long. However, I am surprised at the extreme reactions some folks here are having to the situation.

Not sure about anyone else, but my reaction was coloured by the title of the post about GW and bad press. To me that screams "look here everyone, another way GW is oppressing the masses!" only to find out someone wasn't happy that their humour wasn't appreciated. I can believe no one bothered to return the model, but I wonder if the "stomped" story is true or hyperboly.

If the OP hadn't tied this story to the price increases and change to resin in order to fan the flames, I doubt people would have reacted as emotionally.

Polonius wrote:Corporate might look the other way if this peice was tucked into a back table at the shop. But when you send in work to corporate that's essentially a "screw you," what exactly is corporate supposed to do?

I think assuming that this piece was a "screw you" is a pretty huge jump.

seanzor wrote:Microsoft doesn't put out ads where they talk gak about their own OS, why do you think GW would stand for the same thing.

Microsoft is not a company whose primary business is entertaining people. That means the image they are expected to project to the public is entirely different. When GW stops encouraging their customers to shout "WAAAAAUGH!" at their events, they will start moving to the sort of dignified corporate image where this sort of joking around isn't expected. As it is, they look to me like a company that thinks their toy soldiers are such SERIOUS BUSINESS! that they cannot tolerate even a single joke about them, even one that isn't particularly hurtful.

Eilif wrote:There is a rediculous amout of blather about how "out of line" this model was for a professional company, how it didn't fit the requested specifications, could be percieved as a thread, was an insult, etc, etc, blah, blah.

Have we forgotten that:
-This is a company that manufactures burned out buildings of it's own.
-Encourages it's staff and participants to shout WAAGH!
-Makes toys that depict incredible violence.

GW is a company, but viewing the creation and submission of this bit of terrain though the eyes of someone in a financial institution or some other buttoned up corporate entity is just plain silly.

It does, but it is in relation to SELLING to the unwashed masses.

Theres an unwritten, and unspoken of business shadow behind "The Hobby", that most people, unless you spend an awful amount of time within the environment, and see some of the behind the scenes stuff that happens within the corperate structure.


Don't kid yourself. GW is a corporation entity, just like your local bank, just like your suit and tie B.S. joe job. You don't go against the grain, no matter HOW much you hate your job, dislike internal memos telling you to increase the sales target, discipline your younger employees for wearing the "If you don't like my attutude..." novelty tee's, Rolling Stones T shirt, or your Twisted Sister stuff, when they should be wearing the basic red uniform.

They have a dress code, a corporate training program, and groupthink of any major company from A to Z. You work for them, on thier time, you WORK for them in spirit and in regulation.


Theres a basic misunderstanding that has cropped up in there, as well. The OP didn't go out there and provide the rest of the story, there was a few things in there that lead the conversation to take a couple of wrong turns when there was CLEARLY a conflict of interest in the shops management, and in the corporate regional management structure.

You can get away with inside Jokes in your local work area, or if you know the guy that you work for and have "That" kind of a relationship that you two can smoke and joke, and the internal dynamic between you gives you the unspoken, or mutually permitted grab assing that people that work together have.

Much like a fart joke, verbal ball busting, and ethnic jokes between each other as good friends and teammates within the work unit, there are some things "Outsiders" of the dynamic of your work unit just shouldn't be included in.

THIS is an example of one of these types of situations.

In the context of this conversation, WE as outsiders are not privy to the internal dynamic of these peoples work environments. We have no place in the discussion of thier work environment, and in the context of the conversation, we can easily pick sides, but in the grand scheme of things here, the opinions are really just personal biases and "outsiders looking in."

Not to mention, it seems to have been quite some time ago. This is all for intensive purposes one of those "Knows a guy who knows a guy..." stories we hear around the water cooler.
Basicly it is office talk.

When you work for GW, or any other company out there from the Army, to a Zoo, You have a professional obligation to do your job, not make waves, and not go against the grain against the machine. It sucks, it might seem penny-anny, but the general social commentary here is that it can get lost in translation that this is a basic Work related Faux Pas gone wrong.
I would more then love to rage against the corperate machine, and maybe they were a little extreme in the reaction, but I can say from working in this sort of an environment that discussion would have been had, and people would have talked to each other because of this situation.

People claiming they "didn't know" are lying, or intentionally being nondescriptive of the issues. People know that in a corporate environment, they don't go and do things on thier own, and higher instruction will have been forwarded, before anything as blaitent as outright destruction without internal disciplines.
lawyers consulted, memos written, decisions made.


Sorry that it was destroyed, but it shouldn't have been unexpected in this case. Especially when your talking about cranked out scenery for a Gamesday.

if you've been to one, you know that it is no little thing, and that each and every scenery piece is cranked out in methodical fashion from the regeionals.

its a business assignment, GW spent $$$ and serious $$$ for the construction and the materials.

Frazzled wrote:[So in other words you're now backtracking. Come on, be a man and put your money where your mouth is. Do it.

No backtracking here. I stand entirely by my assessment (as stated in my previous posts) that:

1)the piece was satire and should be considered as such
2)the company was silly -but within their rights- to destroy the piece
3)GW following your suggestion to call the police would have been completely over-reacting and entirely out-of-context

I think that terrain piece is awesome and I love GW stuff.

Eilif wrote:

Frazzled wrote:[So in other words you're now backtracking. Come on, be a man and put your money where your mouth is. Do it.

No backtracking here. I stand entirely by my assessment (as stated in my previous posts) that:

1)the piece was satire and should be considered as such
2)the company was silly -but within their rights- to destroy the piece
3)GW following your suggestion to call the police would have been completely over-reacting and entirely out-of-context

In that case I re-instate my suggestion that you try such as well, and see if its over reaction or not.

By the powers that be some of you need to take that stick out of your ***...And some of you should know better...

Frazzled wrote:

Eilif wrote:

Frazzled wrote:[So in other words you're now backtracking. Come on, be a man and put your money where your mouth is. Do it.

No backtracking here. I stand entirely by my assessment (as stated in my previous posts) that:

1)the piece was satire and should be considered as such
2)the company was silly -but within their rights- to destroy the piece
3)GW following your suggestion to call the police would have been completely over-reacting and entirely out-of-context

In that case I re-instate my suggestion that you try such as well, and see if its over reaction or not.

We're going to have to agree to disagree then, because I don't see myself working for, and building terrain for, GW anytime soon, and you already know I think that your initial suggestion of sending a violent picture to a traditional corporate entity (like a bank) is not-at-all comparable.