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yeah BFG does seem a little overpowered lol.
also go here for some models
http://www.buycheapr.com/us/result.jsp?ga=us15&q=wizkids+halo+actionclix

Conceptually this is a pretty good list, but it is going to take quite a bit of tweaking for balance before I'd try taking it onto the tabletop.

Some of the weapons on this list have absurdly long ranges, I'd cut the Beam Rifle to 36", the Covenant Carbine to 24", the Heavy Plasma Launcher to 48", switch the ranges on the Hunter Cannon's two fire modes and replace Melta with Lance for Beam, and cut Mining Laser to 48".

Brutes are absurdly tough for their points cost, I'd either drop Feel No Pain from the commander and slash Bodyguards, ordinary Brutes, and Brute Rangers down to 1 Wound, or I'd hike the commander to 160 points, Bodyguards to 50 points, ordinary troopers to 25 points, and Rangers to 30 points. Likewise, Sangheili Honor Guards should be dropped to 1 Wound or hiked to 37 points.

I like the SpecOps troopers' mission rule, but they probably ought to be hiked to 27 points each.

Jackals ought to have their BS brought down to 3 or have their points cost hiked to 12; Jackal Marksmen definitely should have their BS dropped to 4.

The Shadow looks mostly sane, but I'd drop its fire points down to 3 per side.

I'd hike the cost of a Ghost to 30 points and the Chopper to 35, it doesn't make much sense to give them the same points cost based on how much better the Chopper is.

Be sure to note down that the Spectre is a Skimmer or Fast Skimmer, at present it's just Vehicle (Open-topped)

I might make Hunters a 2-model squad instead of 1-2, as far as I know there are no single Hunters encountered anywhere in the Halo universe (though I may be wrong).

The Scarab has got so many balance issues as it stands that I'm just going to put down some rules for it that make more sense to me from the background and balance standpoints:

Scarab (800pts)
Super-Heavy Walker
WS 2, BS 4, S 10, AV 14/14/13, I 1, A 2, SP 3, VS 2
Transport: 30 models, 1 access point on each side, 10 fire points
Special Rules: Deep Strike
Armament: Scarab Laser, two Covenant plasma cannons, two heavy plasma launchers
Scarab Laser: 96", S D, AP 2, Heavy 1, Primary Weapon*
*Fire by placing the narrow end of the flamer template anywhere within range of the Scarab and the wide end not closer to the Scarab than the narrow end. Resolve the shot against everyone completely or partially underneath the template.

I'd remove the Super Scarab entirely.

I'd drop the option for the Heavy Covenant Plasma Cannon on the Seraph entirely, adjusting the range of the weapons on a model that can move as far as it likes and fire afterwards does absolutely nothing and there's no reason to take a one-shot S8 AP2 weapon over a 4-shot S8 AP3 weapon. Alternately, keep the option but drop the plasma cannon to S6 and 3 shots.

The SpecOps Strike Force is a cool formation, but keep in mind that since Apocalypse uses the 4th edition rules for determining scoring units so they'd all count as scoring units anyway, and The Mission Most Holy appears as more of a drawback for the formation than anything else, I might drop the cost to 50 points plus models.

I'd hike the cost of the Brute Alpha Pack to 100 points plus models, you're basically taking a nice balanced rule and removing it's drawbacks for a chunk of the army.

Guardians of the Hive is a little odd, though I could see it working with a cost of 50pts plus models.

Air Superiority Lance is definitely worth more than 60 points, especially with no cap on the number of Banshee squads; I'd change it to 3-5 and make it 150 points plus the cost of the models.

Truth looks fine as is, if possibly a bit overpriced, I'd make him 200 points.

I'd hike the Arbiter to 250 points, but his rules look fine; similarly Tartarus ought to be 200 or 210 points to fit the rules.

As far as the Battlefleet Gothic rules are concerned I'd either try and work in a bomber somehow or give the Phantoms a 4+ save against being removed, if only to ensure that their ordnance isn't massively underpowered.

The Covenant Supercarrier is around the size of an Imperial Battleship if the background material on both universes is to be believed, I'd drop it to 12 hits, 5 each of shields and turrets, drop the energy projectors to 3 in each arc, drop the plasma turrets to 20 and put some limitations on their fire arc, put some limitations on the torpedoes' fire arc, and drop the launch bays to 8; with those changes I could see it as a 400-point ship.

The Assault Carrier should probably be dropped to Grand Cruiser/10, 4 each of shields and turrets, 3 each on the energy projectors, 6 on the torpedoes with fire arc restrictions, and 6 launch bays; I'd put it at 325 points.

The Covenant Carrier could probably be used as-is if you dropped it to 3 each on shields and turrets, gave it 4 launch bays, and put some limitations on the torpedoes' fire arc.

As far as I know the Supercruiser, Battleship, and CAR-class cruiser don't exist in canon, I'd drop them. You've already got more canon ship classes than the entire Eldar fleet, and a pretty solid selection.

Based on scale I'd drop the CCS and Reverence-class cruisers to Cruiser/6, in the first case drop the shields and turrets to 2, slash one point from the firepower of all weapons, limit the fire arc on the torpedoes, and drop the points cost to 160 you'd probably be set, in the second case drop a point of shields, limit the fire arc on the torpedoes, and drop the points cost to 155 and you'd probably have a playable ship.

From what I know of the Destroyer, it's going to be an escort rather than a capital ship and ought to be rather faster; I'd change it's statline to Escort/1, Speed 35cm, Turns 90, Shields 1, Armor 5+, Turrets 1, drop the energy projector's firepower to 1, drop the ordnance entirely, and give it firepower 2 plasma turrets for 40 points.

I'd drop a point of Turrets and limit the fire arc of both weapons on the Frigate, but otherwise it looks fine.

If you want to run the Corvette as an escort carrier it really ought to be 35 points, I'd also limit the fire arc of the plasma turrets.

The 40k rules look like they'd produce a solid mid-range shooting army with a few powerful vehicles and close-combat units, filling a niche in between the Tau and the Eldar in terms of gameplay, which actually seems quite fitting for the elite hyper-advanced aliens to run like a combination of 40k's two main elite hyper-advanced alien races on the tabletop. The Battlefleet Gothic rules create a glass cannon of a fleet, they're not as tough as some and don't move very fast but they can fling an ungodly amount of ordnance your way and pack quite a punch if you manage to close to direct-fire range.

AnomanderRake wrote:Conceptually this is a pretty good list, but it is going to take quite a bit of tweaking for balance before I'd try taking it onto the tabletop.

Some of the weapons on this list have absurdly long ranges, I'd cut the Beam Rifle to 36", the Covenant Carbine to 24", the Heavy Plasma Launcher to 48", switch the ranges on the Hunter Cannon's two fire modes and replace Melta with Lance for Beam, and cut Mining Laser to 48".

ok, but the carbine is supposed to be like a rifle, with a longer range than stuff like plasme rifles.

Brutes are absurdly tough for their points cost, I'd either drop Feel No Pain from the commander and slash Bodyguards, ordinary Brutes, and Brute Rangers down to 1 Wound, or I'd hike the commander to 160 points, Bodyguards to 50 points, ordinary troopers to 25 points, and Rangers to 30 points. Likewise, Sangheili Honor Guards should be dropped to 1 Wound or hiked to 37 points.

i will bump up their points costs, because the whole point of brutes is to be tough

I like the SpecOps troopers' mission rule, but they probably ought to be hiked to 27 points each.

ok

Jackals ought to have their BS brought down to 3 or have their points cost hiked to 12; Jackal Marksmen definitely should have their BS dropped to 4.

they have to at least be better than humans, that is their whole point, to be good at shooting. remove that and they are guardsmen with feel no pain

The Shadow looks mostly sane, but I'd drop its fire points down to 3 per side.
i will drop it to 4
I'd hike the cost of a Ghost to 30 points and the Chopper to 35, it doesn't make much sense to give them the same points cost based on how much better the Chopper is.
true, i tried to equalise them, but it didnt work too well
Be sure to note down that the Spectre is a Skimmer or Fast Skimmer, at present it's just Vehicle (Open-topped)
good point
I might make Hunters a 2-model squad instead of 1-2, as far as I know there are no single Hunters encountered anywhere in the Halo universe (though I may be wrong).
ive explained this already- hunters dont always come in twos.
The Scarab has got so many balance issues as it stands that I'm just going to put down some rules for it that make more sense to me from the background and balance standpoints:

Scarab (800pts)
Super-Heavy Walker
WS 2, BS 4, S 10, AV 14/14/13, I 1, A 2, SP 3, VS 2
Transport: 30 models, 1 access point on each side, 10 fire points
Special Rules: Deep Strike
Armament: Scarab Laser, two Covenant plasma cannons, two heavy plasma launchers
Scarab Laser: 96", S D, AP 2, Heavy 1, Primary Weapon*
*Fire by placing the narrow end of the flamer template anywhere within range of the Scarab and the wide end not closer to the Scarab than the narrow end. Resolve the shot against everyone completely or partially underneath the template.
that is actually a much better idea for the weapon. i will incorporate your ideas with my existing rules
I'd remove the Super Scarab entirely.
the covenant need more superheavies, and the super scarab is the reaver to the scarabs warhound, really, and i like that.
I'd drop the option for the Heavy Covenant Plasma Cannon on the Seraph entirely, adjusting the range of the weapons on a model that can move as far as it likes and fire afterwards does absolutely nothing and there's no reason to take a one-shot S8 AP2 weapon over a 4-shot S8 AP3 weapon. Alternately, keep the option but drop the plasma cannon to S6 and 3 shots.
a very good point, i shall do that
The SpecOps Strike Force is a cool formation, but keep in mind that since Apocalypse uses the 4th edition rules for determining scoring units so they'd all count as scoring units anyway, and The Mission Most Holy appears as more of a drawback for the formation than anything else, I might drop the cost to 50 points plus models.
oh, i forgot about that. i shall change their rules.
I'd hike the cost of the Brute Alpha Pack to 100 points plus models, you're basically taking a nice balanced rule and removing it's drawbacks for a chunk of the army.
gotcha
Guardians of the Hive is a little odd, though I could see it working with a cost of 50pts plus models.
meh, i wanted all the ideas i could get, i will probably replace it once i or someone else thinks of a better formation
Air Superiority Lance is definitely worth more than 60 points, especially with no cap on the number of Banshee squads; I'd change it to 3-5 and make it 150 points plus the cost of the models.
very well, thy will be done
Truth looks fine as is, if possibly a bit overpriced, I'd make him 200 points.
fair enough
I'd hike the Arbiter to 250 points, but his rules look fine; similarly Tartarus ought to be 200 or 210 points to fit the rules.
sure
As far as the Battlefleet Gothic rules are concerned I'd either try and work in a bomber somehow or give the Phantoms a 4+ save against being removed, if only to ensure that their ordnance isn't massively underpowered.
i will bring in Space Banshees and make Seraphs bombers
The Covenant Supercarrier is around the size of an Imperial Battleship if the background material on both universes is to be believed, I'd drop it to 12 hits, 5 each of shields and turrets, drop the energy projectors to 3 in each arc, drop the plasma turrets to 20 and put some limitations on their fire arc, put some limitations on the torpedoes' fire arc, and drop the launch bays to 8; with those changes I could see it as a 400-point ship.
actually the supercarrier is bigger by several kilometres if i recall correctly, so i wanted it to be stronger.
The Assault Carrier should probably be dropped to Grand Cruiser/10, 4 each of shields and turrets, 3 each on the energy projectors, 6 on the torpedoes with fire arc restrictions, and 6 launch bays; I'd put it at 325 points.
fair enough
The Covenant Carrier could probably be used as-is if you dropped it to 3 each on shields and turrets, gave it 4 launch bays, and put some limitations on the torpedoes' fire arc.
i will keep the torpedos as is, but increase the points. the idea with torpedos is that they can be fired any direction and even if they are fired behind the ship they can be guided around the back parts.
As far as I know the Supercruiser, Battleship, and CAR-class cruiser don't exist in canon, I'd drop them. You've already got more canon ship classes than the entire Eldar fleet, and a pretty solid selection.
there have been obscure references to them, but i am not attached to them in any special way, so out they go.
Based on scale I'd drop the CCS and Reverence-class cruisers to Cruiser/6, in the first case drop the shields and turrets to 2, slash one point from the firepower of all weapons, limit the fire arc on the torpedoes, and drop the points cost to 160 you'd probably be set, in the second case drop a point of shields, limit the fire arc on the torpedoes, and drop the points cost to 155 and you'd probably have a playable ship.
i will weaken them a bit
From what I know of the Destroyer, it's going to be an escort rather than a capital ship and ought to be rather faster; I'd change it's statline to Escort/1, Speed 35cm, Turns 90, Shields 1, Armor 5+, Turrets 1, drop the energy projector's firepower to 1, drop the ordnance entirely, and give it firepower 2 plasma turrets for 40 points.
sure
I'd drop a point of Turrets and limit the fire arc of both weapons on the Frigate, but otherwise it looks fine.
ok.
If you want to run the Corvette as an escort carrier it really ought to be 35 points, I'd also limit the fire arc of the plasma turrets.
gotcha
The 40k rules look like they'd produce a solid mid-range shooting army with a few powerful vehicles and close-combat units, filling a niche in between the Tau and the Eldar in terms of gameplay, which actually seems quite fitting for the elite hyper-advanced aliens to run like a combination of 40k's two main elite hyper-advanced alien races on the tabletop. The Battlefleet Gothic rules create a glass cannon of a fleet, they're not as tough as some and don't move very fast but they can fling an ungodly amount of ordnance your way and pack quite a punch if you manage to close to direct-fire range.
exellent, that is excactly what i was going for with the 40k army, and roughly what i was going for with the fleet!

thank you for taking the time to make such a detailed analysis, i know how tedious that must have been for you

posting update within the next few days


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just wondering, has anyone played any battles with the Covenant yet? and if they have, how did they go?

I have used the origonal rules but am waiting for all the updates to finish before i get a new set otherwise ide be printing a new set every week.

i still think that the needler should be assault 2 as this does reflect how it is ment to be used-charging in shooting before giving your foe a face full of spines.
F S R
the banshee should be AV 10 9 9

On the subject of the Super Scarab, the Dark Eldar and the Necrons are running on precisely zero super-heavies right now. The Space Marines, of all people, have one. I don't think it'd hurt the Covenant to be stuck with just the normal Scarab when the Super Scarab appeared in what, one mission of Halo Wars?

Battlefleet Gothic has pretty consistent standards for the number of hits any given starship has, the largest battleships in any fleet are always 12 hits (unless you count unique special ships like the Planet Killer, and Space Hulks don't count). The size difference is 30km for the supercarrier to 26km for an Emperor-class battleship, which I think is adequately represented by the increased shields and turrets.

I see where you're coming from on the Jackals, but I'd still drop the Marksmen to BS 4 to bring them in line with supposedly the best non-Vindicare Assassin snipers in the galaxy (Eldar Rangers).

Necrons have the Pylon.

And super-heavies go against the DE theme. They don't even have any tanks for crying out loud. Even Tau have tanks!

However, a gigantic lumbering behemoth of 'why do when you can overdo' fits the Covenant theme pretty well.

Good point, forgot about the Pylon.

They could have given them a super-heavy flyer, at least. Like an evil Vampire. Or maybe a bigger Raider, like Jabba the Hutt's barge.

Ignoring the Imperial Guard and their ten Baneblade variants, though, every super-heavy is at least somewhat distinct from other super-heavies, it seems to me that the Super Scarab is just the Scarab but bigger. Maybe make it more distinctive? Give it a Banshee hanger?

well, what is the difference between a reaver titan and a warhound?

the reaver is bigger, stronger, more expensive, tougher, with better weapons and without the Agile special rule. the super scarab is just the same, difference wise.

however, the banshee hangar idea is awesome, i shall give the super scarab the option of having a Landing Pad instead of one of its big weapons. The Landing Pad can carry Banshees, Spirits and Phantoms, protecting them from harm with a localised shield until they are ready to take off.

now, sorry about the lack of an update, life has intervened, but i shall post one oon. and the changes shall be big, i warn you now.

UPDATED

Blackhoof wrote:UPDATED

what!!
nnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooo
ive just gone and printed LAST EDS version.

I love it! GWS has to add this! UNSC vs COVENET!

Looks much better; though I'd still drop the Super Scarab to Initiative 1 to avoid utterly dominating (in the overpowered sense) in any battle in which Titans are involved, and there really ought to be an upper bound on the number of Brute packs you can put in the Brute Alpha Pack formation.

The Supercarrier is still a little broken; as it stands the closest thing I've been able to find in the rules is an Ork Space Hulk, for the sake of balance I'd recommend dropping it to Shields and Turrets 6 and making it count as Defenses (which just makes it a little easier to hit when shooting)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As far as a USNC ruleset is concerned, I have a few thoughts:

SPARTAN-IIs would be either a 0-1 Elites choice or an HQ choice that doesn't fill your mandatory selection, they've got something like a 6/6/4/4/3/5/3/10/2+/4++ profile and extremely versatile weapon selection, MJOLNIR armor is certainly good enough to give a 2+/4++ save and it might grant Eternal Warrior, they might also get a variant on Relentless that lets them move more slowly to fire heavy weapons instead of having to stop entirely.

UNSC Marines are Troops, they'd have assault rifles (normal small-arms profile) as normal gear with the option to take missile launchers (work like normal missile launchers), Spartan lasers (lascannons), and some variety of machine gun (an AP 5 heavy bolter, maybe?). Major and Colonel would be the normal HQ choices, they wouldn't be quite as awesome as most HQ in terms of raw combat power but would have cool inspiration/special tactics/'I need air support down here now!' abilities (more like an Ethereal than most HQ).

SPARTAN-IIIs would be Elites, they'd come in small squads with a slightly less powerful version of the MJOLNIR armor (no Relentless-variant rule).

The Warthog is a 10/10/10 Fast vehicle used in squads of 1-3 as Fast Attack, they'd get a machine gun (the same heavy bolter-like piece of gear) with the option to upgrade it to an anti-aircraft gun (closer to a Hydra autocannon) or a Gauss cannon (lascannon, maybe more shots to differentiate it from the Spartan laser).

The Scorpion is a 14/13/13 Tank with a gun that functions along the lines of a Hammerhead railgun (single-shot anti-armor or shrapnel antipersonnel) but maybe with a minimum range, and a machine gun.

The Wolverine works a lot like a Manticore, with less powerful rockets and no limited ammo rule, and 11/11/10 armor.

The Pelican is an 11/11/10 Superheavy Flyer with 2 structure points, it can carry some number of infantry and either a Scorpion or two Warthogs, it's got an epic gatling cannon and some wing-mounted limited-ammo air-to-ground missiles.

The Longsword is also an 11/11/10 Superheavy Flyer with 2 structure points, it gets two epic gatling cannons and a stock of air-to-air missiles.

i will reduce the Initiative of the Super Scarab

oh, im not doing a UNSC codex anymore- Spoon is making one. no point in conflicting codexes, imo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
any more suggestions before i do the next update?

YES
do it before thursday please(cos thats my next chance to print it)
make the needler ASSAULT 2 PLEASE
add rules for the kig-yar skirmishers.
kig-yar skirmisher 15pts

WS2 BS4 S2 T2 W1 I3 A1 LD6 S6+

scout leader
WS2 BS4 S2 T2 W1 I3 A1 LD7 S6+

wargear
spike/needle rifle(cant remember which one)

spike/needle rifle
R36 S4 AP4 Heavy 1

special rules
scout
infiltrate

options
may upgrade 1 skirmisher to scout leader for +5pts
scout leader may replace his rifle with a needler+5pts

KEEP JACKAL MARKSMEN AT BS 5
eldar snipers may be the best marksmen in the galaxy but Kig-Yar arnt from the galaxy are they.

You and spoon should collaborate(sp?) on a UNSC codex, I think it'd turn out really well.

actually, i have lowered tha marksmen's BS but given them a rule so that they can pick out individual units to allocate wounds to (say hello to sniping IC's C: )

plus they have acute senses and stuff.

ok, ok, i will make the Needler assault 2. happy now?

i shall also add Needle Rifle

yes thanks.
the super scarab would be really awsome if it had a banshee hangar....
the brute alpha packs a nice representation of a post schism covenant force.
infact the whole things to me.
note to all others....campaning DOES work. evidence-needlers now assault2.

ijust couldnt say no after you begged me so much.

the grav hammer is good but i find the cheiftan can get killed if he charges a dread and it hits first!!!
the wraith is a perfect killer. combination of longrange bombardment and high armour.
all in all very satisfactory play test results.

Thanks for playtesting, it means allot to me that people are playing my codex

Losing to a dread is to be expected, lol.

the needlers are murderous.
i have 11 Jackals with needlers for 22 shots hitting on 3+s at S3 AP- rerolling misses for an average of 20 hits....
my IG are complaining.

the brute honour guard should be allowed a brute shot.

the locust is good at longrange support but is vunerable to dedicated AT weapons.

Tarturus IS killable-just shoot him.

grunts go squish

the stealth equitment and troops are

a brute cheiftan with active camo and given a brute pack with bubble sheilds is

the banshee is even awsomer with its new cannons

the brutes/elites in the infantry lance should be allowed equitment/weapon upgrades.

but no stealth() gear.

stealth gear seems.... powerful XD

i have upped the points of needlers a bit lol, maybe they wont kill so much now

updating soon


Automatically Appended Next Post:
UPDATED
-tweaked formatting a bit
-added an "Unggoy Command Group" that makes Grunts better- this is aimed to allow people to take dedicated Unggoy armies that make grunts more useful
-moved Jackal Marksmen to Elites
-removed "Short Circuit" form Energy Pistols and replaced it with an overcharge ability so that certain units can fire the overcharged shot of an Energy Pistol (but grunts cant, for obvious reasons)
-fixed up some errors with the special rules

sounds good.

damn-i only have 1 infantry lance(lacking models for more) so need to get more guys.

can we have a way to take brutes and/or elites as troops?
maybe some commander upgrade like if your commander is an elite zealot then elite warrior lancescount as troops and ditto with the brute cheiftan.

master of ordinance wrote:damn-i only have 1 infantry lance(lacking models for more) so need to get more guys.

Post up a pic.

=P

master of ordinance wrote:sounds good.

damn-i only have 1 infantry lance(lacking models for more) so need to get more guys.

can we have a way to take brutes and/or elites as troops?
maybe some commander upgrade like if your commander is an elite zealot then elite warrior lancescount as troops and ditto with the brute cheiftan.

you.... have an infantry lance? o.o
where did you get the models? did you convert them yourself?

strange, i was positive that Zealots and Chieftains allowed that, but i must have removed it. i will add it back in, just for you

please post a pic of this infantry lance, i would love to see it!

I feel that the Elite Zealot should be able to also carry heavy weapons, as during gameplay in Halo: Reach the Elite Zealots were known to carry around heavy weapons. Also add a Plasma Cannon, that has a profile like this:

36" Str6 Ap5 Heavy 6

there are plasma cannons... they are called Covenant Plasma Cannons

how do you upload pics??
i cant figure out how to

all my figures are conversions.
however due to a shortage of goblins i am using spore mines to represent grunts and as my only saurus has done a runner(must have seen my conversion ideas) i am using a tau(the pulse rifle somewhat resembles a carbine).
i also have 4 marksmen and 5 brutes with a cheiftan. oh and a banshee and locust(not that good but my budget is limited)

brutes-space orks
grunts-goblins
jackals-skinks
elites-saurus
banshee-scratch build
locust-carnifex
hunters-hive guard

I'm loving the idea.

So far, I've seen great conversions for Elites done with Bloodletters, and Grunts done with Goblins. How about Brutes? I can't seem to find anything that fits their style...

Space Gorrillas?